4712 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

You know... I've come to realize that, in the end, it doesn't matter.

Rewrite the heretics--choose geth.
Destroy the heretics--choose quarians.

If it's genocide either way, and it's wrong either way, just choose the one that'll be more helpful against the Reapers.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Wrong.
Find me one person that kenw about the Turians launching the genophage without salarian concent. Or anyone in the general public that thought Reapers were behind the Citadel attack prior to ME3. Or anyone that knew how the Spectres were formed. Or anyone that knew the turians were planning on attacking humans well before there was any cause to.
Because I sure doubt you can. These events are NOT public knowledge. Nither is the death of those A.I.s.

Genophage - Public knowledge. 
Battle of the Citadel - Public knowledge
Spectres - Public Knowledge
First Contact War - Public Knowledge.

I think you missed the point.  Khelish tried to argue that the killing of the AI was top secret.  I countered by saying that while the details in the Archives were perhaps not that well known, those scenes all relate to events that are public knowledge.   So most likely people especially those living at the time knew that AI were killed on the Citadel.  How it went down is irrelevant to my point. 

Genophage being released WITHOUT Council approval - NOT public knowledge.
Geth dreadnought NOT being of geth construction - NOT public knowledge.
Founding of the Spectres and events behind it - NOT public knowledge.
Turians having invasion plans from the very get-go - NOT public knowledge.

I think YOU missed the point here. The killing of the A.I. would have bread sympathy for synthetics if it had been public. There would have been people arguing for synthetic rights. Insetad, the event was never mentioned till now. Therefore, unknown, swept under the rug and never discussed again.
So, again, WRONG. Those sceens were of events that no one knew about.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Again, that a Reaper would happen to be that close to the Rim so suddenly is concidental. As is the fact that a base perfectly speced to it surrounded by jamming towers is avalible with no prior planning. With matching Reaper upgrades to the geth dreadnought and a captive Legion. And the very fact that Legion was never able to warn Tali when he showed every inclination to not wanting this (if being chained to the dreadnought core is any indication of unwillingness) is more proof that this happened before the quarians launched their assault.

And last I checked, hooking Legion to a Reaper processing system linked into a Dreadnought's mass effect core and threaded throughout the server system through connection to the base on Rannoch is quite an elaborate set-up.

The Reapers are pretty much all over the galaxy dude.  They likely expected the Quarians to be stupid and attack the Geth.

And what do you mean perfectly specced.  It is a big f**king hole in the ground.  So big you can't even tell it is a Reaper until you shoot down in the hole with a laser.  You could damn near fit two Reapers in that whole considering how far down the dude is.  So no it is not a perfect spec.  It is a big f**king bunker.  

Why would Legion warn Tali?  Her PEOPLE ATTACKED THE GETH.  As far as Legion knows, Tali supported the attack. 

[silverexile17s]

Xilizhra wrote...

You know... I've come to realize that, in the end, it doesn't matter.

Rewrite the heretics--choose geth.
Destroy the heretics--choose quarians.

If it's genocide either way, and it's wrong either way, just choose the one that'll be more helpful against the Reapers.

Actually, nither is better.
The geth can attack the Reapers, but can't run supplies, or evacuate colonies.
The quarians can run supplies and evacuate colonies, but can't launch front-up attacks on the Reapers.
Quarians = supply lines, which must be preserved to win.
Geth = front line, whoch must be preserved to win.
Nither side gives you an advantage. Lose the quarians, you lose the supply lines to maintain the front. Lose the geth, you lose the forces to maintain the front. Catch 22 all around.

[Xilizhra]

silverexile17s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You know... I've come to realize that, in the end, it doesn't matter.

Rewrite the heretics--choose geth.
Destroy the heretics--choose quarians.

If it's genocide either way, and it's wrong either way, just choose the one that'll be more helpful against the Reapers.

Actually, nither is better.
The geth can attack the Reapers, but can't run supplies, or evacuate colonies.
The quarians can run supplies and evacuate colonies, but can't launch front-up attacks on the Reapers.
Quarians = supply lines, which must be preserved to win.
Geth = front line, whoch must be preserved to win.
Nither side gives you an advantage. Lose the quarians, you lose the supply lines to maintain the front. Lose the geth, you lose the forces to maintain the front. Catch 22 all around.

I'm referring to war asset numbers. One side will just have more ships and troops than the other.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Again, that a Reaper would happen to be that close to the Rim so suddenly is concidental. As is the fact that a base perfectly speced to it surrounded by jamming towers is avalible with no prior planning. With matching Reaper upgrades to the geth dreadnought and a captive Legion. And the very fact that Legion was never able to warn Tali when he showed every inclination to not wanting this (if being chained to the dreadnought core is any indication of unwillingness) is more proof that this happened before the quarians launched their assault.

And last I checked, hooking Legion to a Reaper processing system linked into a Dreadnought's mass effect core and threaded throughout the server system through connection to the base on Rannoch is quite an elaborate set-up.

The Reapers are pretty much all over the galaxy dude.  They likely expected the Quarians to be stupid and attack the Geth.

And what do you mean perfectly specced.  It is a big f**king hole in the ground.  So big you can't even tell it is a Reaper until you shoot down in the hole with a laser.  You could damn near fit two Reapers in that whole considering how far down the dude is.  So no it is not a perfect spec.  It is a big f**king bunker.  

Why would Legion warn Tali?  Her PEOPLE ATTACKED THE GETH.  As far as Legion knows, Tali supported the attack. 

There are hardly any Reapers near the Perseus Veil, otherwise, they wouldn't have tried to use the geth to stall out the quarians, now would they? They would have marched right in.

A big hole that the Destroyer fits in so snugly that it's practally tailor-made. Or did you see how that Destroyer's massive legs somehow fit perfectly inside it with no scraping against the walls of the base?
Also, how many are surrounded by jamming towers, with blast-shields, and, as said by Legion himself, placed by the Old Machines personally?

And again, Legion and Tali advocated for peace in front of the Admirals together, so I'm pretty sure he figured she wouldn't support something like this after being willing to work WITH him in front of Gerrel, Xen, and Raan. All of which didn't trust Legion's word as physical proof of geth sencirity.

[silverexile17s]

Xilizhra wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You know... I've come to realize that, in the end, it doesn't matter.

Rewrite the heretics--choose geth.
Destroy the heretics--choose quarians.

If it's genocide either way, and it's wrong either way, just choose the one that'll be more helpful against the Reapers.

Actually, nither is better.
The geth can attack the Reapers, but can't run supplies, or evacuate colonies.
The quarians can run supplies and evacuate colonies, but can't launch front-up attacks on the Reapers.
Quarians = supply lines, which must be preserved to win.
Geth = front line, whoch must be preserved to win.
Nither side gives you an advantage. Lose the quarians, you lose the supply lines to maintain the front. Lose the geth, you lose the forces to maintain the front. Catch 22 all around.

I'm referring to war asset numbers. One side will just have more ships and troops than the other.

That's entirly dependant on the Heretic station choice. Kill the Heretics, the quarians will have a higher asset count. Save the Heretics, and the geth will have the higher asset count. If you didn't do the Heretic station mission, then the I think the geth will always have the higher count.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 05 avril 2013 - 01:16 .

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...
Genophage being released WITHOUT Council approval - NOT public knowledge.
Geth dreadnought NOT being of geth construction - NOT public knowledge.
Founding of the Spectres and events behind it - NOT public knowledge.
Turians having invasion plans from the very get-go - NOT public knowledge.

I think YOU missed the point here. The killing of the A.I. would have bread sympathy for synthetics if it had been public. There would have been people arguing for synthetic rights. Insetad, the event was never mentioned till now. Therefore, unknown, swept under the rug and never discussed again.
So, again, WRONG. Those sceens were of events that no one knew about.

I already said they didn't know the exact details so all you are doing is repeating stuff irrelevant to the discussion. 

The Geth lived at the time the event happened.  It is likely 300 AI disappearing (your number remember not mine) would be noticed and discussed.  And no organic is going to care about dead AI.  When have they ever cared?

So again, people may not have known what exactly went down but it is silly to think that 300 years ago when this all went down that no one noticed that there were 300 AI on the citadel and then magically the next day they were all gone.   I guess the Tooth Fairy came for them.

[Shallyah]

I don't care about war assets. I would always side with creatures of nature over creatures of junk.

Besides, quarians are benign people (with a couple of narrow, superstitious asses for leaders, but still) and the geth are cold circuits that will always care about statistic and probability to decide what is more convenient for them. Can only imagine that sooner or later they'll get the numbers and logistics for their calculations to reach the conclusion that they'd be better off killing off all organics.

There is no debate here.

[Xilizhra]

silverexile17s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You know... I've come to realize that, in the end, it doesn't matter.

Rewrite the heretics--choose geth.
Destroy the heretics--choose quarians.

If it's genocide either way, and it's wrong either way, just choose the one that'll be more helpful against the Reapers.

Actually, nither is better.
The geth can attack the Reapers, but can't run supplies, or evacuate colonies.
The quarians can run supplies and evacuate colonies, but can't launch front-up attacks on the Reapers.
Quarians = supply lines, which must be preserved to win.
Geth = front line, whoch must be preserved to win.
Nither side gives you an advantage. Lose the quarians, you lose the supply lines to maintain the front. Lose the geth, you lose the forces to maintain the front. Catch 22 all around.

I'm referring to war asset numbers. One side will just have more ships and troops than the other.

That's entirly dependant on the Heretic station choice. Kill the Heretics, the quarians will have a higher asset count. Save the Heretics, and the geth will have the higher asset count. If you didn't do the Heretic station mission, then the I think the geth will always have the higher count.

Yes... that's exactly what I said in the post you quoted.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
Genophage being released WITHOUT Council approval - NOT public knowledge.
Geth dreadnought NOT being of geth construction - NOT public knowledge.
Founding of the Spectres and events behind it - NOT public knowledge.
Turians having invasion plans from the very get-go - NOT public knowledge.

I think YOU missed the point here. The killing of the A.I. would have bread sympathy for synthetics if it had been public. There would have been people arguing for synthetic rights. Insetad, the event was never mentioned till now. Therefore, unknown, swept under the rug and never discussed again.
So, again, WRONG. Those sceens were of events that no one knew about.

I already said they didn't know the exact details so all you are doing is repeating stuff irrelevant to the discussion. 

The Geth lived at the time the event happened.  It is likely 300 AI disappearing (your number remember not mine) would be noticed and discussed.  And no organic is going to care about dead AI.  When have they ever cared?

So again, people may not have known what exactly went down but it is silly to think that 300 years ago when this all went down that no one noticed that there were 300 AI on the citadel and then magically the next day they were all gone.   I guess the Tooth Fairy came for them.

But again, you fail to realize these are all events that no one knew happened.

Again, if a massicare like that was public, alot more people would have been protesting synthetic equality. The fact that so many welcome the geth into the war effort is proof that your "organics naturally hate synthetics" arguement is anything but true.

And again, you assume that anyone ever knew the A.I.s were there to begin with.

[silverexile17s]

Xilizhra wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You know... I've come to realize that, in the end, it doesn't matter.

Rewrite the heretics--choose geth.
Destroy the heretics--choose quarians.

If it's genocide either way, and it's wrong either way, just choose the one that'll be more helpful against the Reapers.

Actually, nither is better.
The geth can attack the Reapers, but can't run supplies, or evacuate colonies.
The quarians can run supplies and evacuate colonies, but can't launch front-up attacks on the Reapers.
Quarians = supply lines, which must be preserved to win.
Geth = front line, whoch must be preserved to win.
Nither side gives you an advantage. Lose the quarians, you lose the supply lines to maintain the front. Lose the geth, you lose the forces to maintain the front. Catch 22 all around.

I'm referring to war asset numbers. One side will just have more ships and troops than the other.

That's entirly dependant on the Heretic station choice. Kill the Heretics, the quarians will have a higher asset count. Save the Heretics, and the geth will have the higher asset count. If you didn't do the Heretic station mission, then the I think the geth will always have the higher count.

Yes... that's exactly what I said in the post you quoted.

Still, it's harsh to reduce it all to arithmitic. That's Reaper logic, right?

[Xilizhra]

Still, it's harsh to reduce it all to arithmitic. That's Reaper logic, right?

Harsh, yes, but this is for an IdiotShepard playthrough who's too incompetent to make peace.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

There are hardly any Reapers near the Perseus Veil, otherwise, they wouldn't have tried to use the geth to stall out the quarians, now would they? They would have marched right in.

A big hole that the Destroyer fits in so snugly that it's practally tailor-made. Or did you see how that Destroyer's massive legs somehow fit perfectly inside it with no scraping against the walls of the base?
Also, how many are surrounded by jamming towers, with blast-shields, and, as said by Legion himself, placed by the Old Machines personally?

And again, Legion and Tali advocated for peace in front of the Admirals together, so I'm pretty sure he figured she wouldn't support something like this after being willing to work WITH him in front of Gerrel, Xen, and Raan. All of which didn't trust Legion's word as physical proof of geth sencirity.

You are confused.  They were not coming there to kill the Quarians or have the Geth stall them.  They were coming there because the Quarians stupidity was about to deliver them a synthetic army they could use against the rest of the Galaxy.  With RC, the Geth would have ripped throught the Quarians, no harvest required because they are too small and then the Geth would be unleased on everyone else.

Once again, you can't even tell it is a Reaper until you fire and it flies out.  It is not snug.  The hole is much larger.  It is just a big f**king hole.  If a Reaper has to fly out of a hole because it is too big, it is not tailor made for it.

When did Tali and Legion advocate for peace together?  Show me the vid.  During the Loyalty mission Tali is still supportive of War.  After peace is achieve when she talks to Shep she says flat out she would have killed the Geth with no remorse and thanks Shepard for not doing so.  So Legion has no reason to warn Tali.  Her people attacked and she didn't stop it.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

But again, you fail to realize these are all events that no one knew happened.

Again, if a massicare like that was public, alot more people would have been protesting synthetic equality. The fact that so many welcome the geth into the war effort is proof that your "organics naturally hate synthetics" arguement is anything but true.

And again, you assume that anyone ever knew the A.I.s were there to begin with.

No people wouldn't.  No one cares about synthetic equality.  Most think of them as just tools.  That is why the Quarians tried to kill the Geth.  The only people we ever see protesting get killed by their own people for doing so. 
And once again, I know about those events.  I don't need to know all the details in the vid, I knew all of them happened.  You keep acting like because I don't know who really killed JFK that I don't know that JFK is dead.  Umm, yes I do.  I don't need to know who pushed the button, I know the genophage happened.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Then in the ending it winds up this:

Choose Geth or Peace = Walters' Box
Endings: 1) Destroy=Genocide; 2) Control; 3) Synthesis

Choose Quarians =/= Walters' Box (nothing hanging over your head)
Endings: 1) Destroy; 2)Control; 3) Synthesis

[Xilizhra]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Then in the ending it winds up this:

Choose Geth or Peace = Walters' Box
Endings: 1) Destroy=Genocide; 2) Control; 3) Synthesis

Choose Quarians =/= Walters' Box (nothing hanging over your head)
Endings: 1) Destroy; 2)Control; 3) Synthesis

I'll take the arrangement without genocide, thanks.

[AresKeith]

I'd choose peace because my Shepard is just that...Damn....Good

[Da Don Giovanni]

AresKeith wrote...

I'd choose peace because my Shepard is just that...Damn....Good

No, one or the other.

[Rip504]

remydat wrote...

Stiamo parlando in uno scenario di pace no. Shepard sapendo o non non è la questione a portata di mano. Forse ragionevole, ma in questa discussione la pace non è un'opzione. Così il fanalino di un fallito tentativo di che la pace, è molto simile a portare fino al punto che questi stessi ammiragli accettano che la pace.

Secondo comma è inutile. La missione di Geth server fornisce anche prove del fatto che il Geth possono ritirarsi  il Quarians permettono loro di. Se la pace non è mai un'opzione, come può il Quarians percepire le azioni della Legione così come? Non non c'è nessuna opzione per la pace in questa discussione.

No, la pace è un'opzione. Per questa discussione pace non è un'opzione. Così si sceglie il Geth per preferenze personali.

Si può parlare di non accettare la pace di Gerrel tutto quello che volete, ma il fatto è che la gente di Quarian infatti accettare la pace. Ancora non accettare o accettare la pace non è l'argomento. La pace è irraggiungibile. Pace non è mai stata un'opzione. Non è un'opzione che Quarians rivolto verso il basso, non è mai stata un'opzione in questa discussione. O posso semplicemente provare hai sbagliato, come il Quarians accettare la pace che si richieda che non lo fanno. Si stanno basando sul Geth "vuole" la pace e la Quarians sono ruotandolo verso il basso. Questo è uno scenario unico facilmente confutato. Questa discussione è su chi scegliereste come la pace non è un'opzione non è mai, non è mai stato. Irraggiungibile.

AresKeith wrote...

I'd choose peace because my Shepard is just that...Damn....Good

+1

Modifié par Rip504, 05 avril 2013 - 03:03 .

[Auld Wulf]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Then in the ending it winds up this:

Choose Geth or Peace = Walters' Box
Endings: 1) Destroy=Genocide; 2) Control; 3) Synthesis

Choose Quarians =/= Walters' Box (nothing hanging over your head)
Endings: 1) Destroy; 2)Control; 3) Synthesis

Did you invent the term "Walters' Box" just to try to look intelligent by sounding like you were citing something, or is that actually a thing? I've not actually heard of it, and I did no end of ressearch. I asked a friend who studies anthropology and philosophy and they'd never heard of it. Google hasn't. Where did this come from?

If this is something someone started saying based upon a silly event in a game, which was then applied to everything with the broad brush of poorly thought out generalisation then I'm going to be very disappointed.

[S.A.K]

AresKeith wrote...

I'd choose peace because my Shepard is just that...Damn....Good

Most people here did (atleast all the non-screw-ups). We are just going at it about what we would do if there was no peace.

I was about to make some more points, but what's the point.
Anyway,
Bioware don't seem to pick the Geth either.
Legion don't make it no matter what.
You are forced to kill your Shep or make him star-brat/dead-shep combo if you really want to save the Geth.
Hell they even give interupt to shoot Legion... 3 times.
Damn shame I tell ya.

I am just happy I prefer Quarians and peace. I can just kill the Geth or use them and kill them(which benifit Quarians as well). And my ending options aren't so... restricted.

Modifié par S.A.K, 05 avril 2013 - 04:24 .

[Shaleist]

One or the other? I'd kill them both. If the Geth and Quarians can't mutually agree to peace why would I favor one over the other? Both of them HAPPILY open fire on the enemy in the either/or scenario. So neither strike me as being particularly benign, as both seem capable of genocide. Is personal gain my only motivation here? OK, if that's all I'd want, I'd take the Geth for their superior firepower.

[Indy_S]

I can't buy that the Quarians resolve is so high that not a single one of them attempts to retreat. Especially when some of their admirals are arguing to not fight. Utter extinction of them is a ridiculous hyperbole.

[shodiswe]

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

shodiswe wrote...
The Quarians arn't inocent people, civlians or anything, they all armed themselves and caused even more chaos and destruction when the galaxy needed to stand united. To me that looks pretty bad.
That some of the civilians didn't want to fight doesn't really help much.. The Geth didn't want to fight at all, they jsut got forced into the whole mess by a bully. I don't like stupid bully's.   I didn't back down to stupid bully's when I was young, instead I gave them a lession in pain and fear.

"Forced" because of the choices they made. If you gave the bully a lesson by beating him up and sitting in his chair, punching anyone who came close to you while claiming you wanted reconciliation, then being surprised when the bully tries to fight you to get his chair back, how much cause for complaint do you really have?

And really, it doesn't matter to you that a crapload of quarians ARE civilians? How is the Admiralty Board elected anyway? Don't admirals vote for new admirals? Would you feel responsible for the actions of a self-elected government?

The fact that they are a military dictatorship and the fact that it's part of their social identity doesn't make it any better.

But I really don't want to choose between them, I'm glad Bioware didn't force us to choose.

But again, that's wrong. The quarians AREN'T run by dictatorship.
The quarians have laws that spicifically prevent that, stating that no course of action can be forceb by the Admorals  on the fleet without unanimous concent. In other words, quarian law forbids Gerrel to force the fleet to war unless all four of the other Admirals uninamously agree and back him.
Failing that, the matter must be put to the Conclave - the quarian's senete, where every ship in the fleet has a represenitive. Then, the Conclave members poll the decision among every ship in the fleet. So no, it's actually the comeplete opposate of a dictatorship.
The majority of quarians willingly voted for this war. You can take Dorn'Hazt's word about them not wanting to go to war, but they still chose to go to war because they felt the alternitive was to die in space.

As I understood it they could force a desition but would then have to resign and "appoint" new people too see things through... And the Quarians really don't like being divided, it's deeply rooted in them, they would very rarely go against the admirality and if they did then they would just force the issue, but their seconds in command that they had themselves handpicked would most likely see their plans through.

Apparently the Admiralty thoguht this would be a good failsafe for "important decision that would allow them to force the issue if truly important in their opinion" I guess the good thing is they woudln't force the issue unless it was an important issue. On the other hand the peopel would have no real say in truly important issues.
But that's not surprising for a military ruled nation.

Least this is what Tali said when my shepard raised concern about their political system and the military rule. So in the end i'm not really wrong. The Admirals can override the Conclave if they really want it, they got that legal option.

In the end the Quarians would loose what they probably consider their most competent and experienced Admirals when going to war... Which is likely soemthing they woudln't want to risk, when they know they would get trodded on no matter what. That's why you meet that Quarian civilian on the surface that tells you the civilians didn't want a war, they didn't want it by in truth they were powerless to stop it to try would only make matters worse for them.

Koris tells you the same, he knew they didn't want it he was agaisnt it but he was outvited 2 to 1 then after that he gave the effort his full support for the sake of the fleet. After that Tali was if you helped hed her in the trial invited to become and admiral to provide her expertise on the geth. Tali was never part of the going to war vote, she just had to ride the ****storm created by Garrel(mr IgetPuntaLOT) and Xen.

Again, wrong. This happened at least five times before in quarian history. And again, the Tali and Koris opposed the war, so forcing it was out of the question anyway. And AGAIN, polled among every ship. The majority of civilians agreed to this as well.

And AGAIN, dead wrong. The quarians are not military-ruled. If they were, Gerrel wouldn't have needed votes. The quarians are diplomatic, and make decisions through debating and voting. Every ship has a say, as do the people on them. They ironcilly aren't much different then the geth in that matter - except the quarians take much longer to reach a consensis.

And again, wrong - the Admirals can't overturn them without being all in agreement - which Koris and Tali aren't. Quarian law would  forbid Gerrel from trying it, lest he be removed from his command.

And again, the quarians believed that this was the only option avalible to them - the alternitive was to die in space, and no one wants that. They all voted for it, not because they felt forced by the Admirals, but because they felt forced by fate and circumstance. You keep confusing "forced by circumstance" with "forced by military."

And Tali spicifcally says that while an Admiral in title, she can at least help Koris push back against dangrous ideals, like Xen's study of geth enslavement.
And this storm was caused by the Reapers forcing the quarians to make a choice - retake Rannoch or die.

It seems you're wrong this time, Tali was never a part of the Quarians admiralty vote on going to war, she was promoted afterwards to make her geth experience available to the admiralty and the fleet. In the case of Tali being branded a traitor of the Quarian people she becomes an advisor not an admiral. But in neither of those cases does she get a chance to vote. They make their vote, snag Tali into the speeding railwaywagon that is the Quarian ar effort and puts her and their people in danger.
And like you said, the admiralty have overriden important decitions in the past and could do it agian if forced to.
As for Garrels voting.. He is one of four admirals. Admirals, his rank isn't higher than Koris, Raan or Xen.

And yes the admiralty represents the highest power in he Quarian political system. That makes them a military dictatorship or military Oligarcy if you prefer that distinction.

Also, they could have survived jsut fine without Rannoch for the next hundred years, and if they ad bothered they could have aquired a planet for themselves instead of spending hundreds of years stockpiling weapons for a foolhardy revenge on the Geth. They were alive because the Geth allowed it, they should have been grateful for the chance, even under those harsh circumstances. The Geth could easily have persued them and destroyed the last few refugees, but the didn't. The Geth primary concern was surviving and hunting down the Fleeing Quarians might not have seemed important. I guess the Geth made a misstake there, they didn't realize how ruthless stubborn the Quarians were. That the Quarians would even be prepared to sacrifise the whole galaxy for their revenge.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRxA9l1-SgM
Play from 6:10.
Tali:  Only Koris opposed the war with me.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7yyGrBLfzc&list=EL5YlPaOxYE5s
Play from 10:34.
Tali: I was outvoted three to two.
So NO. Tali WAS part of the Admiralty vote. Also, She spicifically tells you when you invite her up to your cabin that the only reason she agreed to the post was so that she COULD have a say in the vote that wouldn't just be dismissed. And AGAIN, on the geth dreadnought, if either EDI, Liara, or Garrus is the second squadmate, she will say that she literally beggd Xen, Gerrel and Raan to try and negotiate, but that no one besides Koris thought that the geth would ever respond to the attempt. At least, that they would ever respond with anything else but plasma rounds. So, Again, you are the one that is wrong. Sorry.

And AGAIN, wrong, because they can't override decisions without ALL BEING IN UNINAMOUS AGREEMENT. Which they are NOT.  Quarian law forbids it, unless ALL FIVE ADMIRALS AGREE to the decision. Which Tali and Koris did not, so overruling the fleet is completely impossible. Did you even read any of my post?

And AGAIN, dead wrong. The codex says that power is SPLIT between the Admirals and the Conclave. Also, if they were ruled by oligarcy, why did Gerrel say they needed to vote? Isn't having public votes, like the quarians DO have, not the way an oligarcy runs?
So, AGAIN wrong.

WRONG AGAIN. The book Mass Effect: Ascencion reveals that the Migrant Fleet is falling apart faster then the ships can be repaired, and they have less then seventy years, eighty years maximum, before the fleet becomes completely defunct and they all die. And AGAIN WRONG, because searching for a world is all they DID.
They need a world that has the following:
Dextro-based.
"Shirt-Sleeves" temperature levels.
Tolerible gravity
Oxygen-based air.
Clean water.
Air particles that don't kill when breathed in.
Edible plants that don't need to be reduced to sterile paste to eat.
Abundant natural resources (the geth don't take anything from the worlds they have).
Ecosystem that matches the insect-free, mammal-spicific symbiotic ecology that Rannoch has.
HOW many worlds like that exist? The chance of it matching all the above, let alone just falling into their lap without any blowback from the Council, is unbelieveably astronomical. Remember, the last time, they discovered a planet themselves that was barely hospitable to them, and when they asked for it to be made offical with the Council, they forced them off the world at gunpoint and gave it to the elcor.
Also, AGAIN WRONG. The quarians are in a constant tipping point, as they have limited storage and few resources. The entire reason the pilgramige was created was so that they could find resources to maintain themselves. There is a carefully balanced system of food and medicine, and it's alwayse balance to the edge. War ruins that balance, as it can cause shortages on some materials. They constantly totter on having to ration everything to avoid mass starvation, which is a constant problem.
And AGAIN, revenge on the geth had ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with the decision to go to war. It was because they needed a world if they wanted their people to survive, and the geth have given them ZERO REASON to believe they will negotiate. It either retake Rannoch, or burdan the war effort and drag it down/float in space and wait to die. Life or death. The same choice the geth had.
And the geth did not let them live as a mercy. It was because they couldn't calculate the mathmatical ramafacations of genocide. Nothing else.
And Tali tells you that the quarian never attacked before now because they DID feel guilty (ME2. On the Alerei. When you find the console and Tali asks to herself what her father was doing, say that trying to reclaim the homeworld is a bad idea, then ask why the quarians didn't already try (First the top option "That's a bad idea", then the bottom option "So take it back"). Tali flat-out tells you that the while the quarians had little choice, they stil regret how they panicked and attacked the geth.
So, WRONG. Despite your claims, hatered was NOT the reason they attacked. They attacked becaus the Reapers invaded, and they needed a world if they had any hope of surviving the Reaper War. Simple as that.

Vote as in Admirals voting? like they did in Tali's trial? The conclaves function is to oversee the needs of the people that doesn't nessesarily involve the safety or security of the Fleet. Like Food, medical supplies, population growth, non-military matters, that's conclave matters.
In a way the Conclave is there to delegate matters that are beneath the Admiral oligarcs, non military matters.

Also that voting the admirals did where Tali was outvoted 3 to two with only Koris supporting her was after they had decided on the war and had bought in Tali as an expert for the war effort. That vote was wether or not they should instead talk to the Geth first.(It was after all a new option that they hadn't considered, unfortunately they choose not to)
It's commendable that Tali did try to work for a peaceful solution but the admirals, well least 3 of them didn't want to talk even if they had line of communication available. A diplomatic line that hadn't existed a few years earlier, but the quarians didn't want to talk, they prefered to speak with weapons. Thanks for digging that up, I had been looking for it.
Legion would have been the equivalent of a Geth ambassador if they choose to try negotiation.

The Quarians choose war because they didn't want to risk giving the Geth advance warning... It was the Quarians who choose not to communicate or negotiate.

As for the Dysonsphere it does tell you it's massive, unfortunately the first video you posted the player didn't scroll down on the description telling you about the massive almost complete destruction that had been inflicted to it. It would have taken them some time, especialy if they want to stick together and keep the fleet save spreading out would likely have been too much of a risk.

So to sum it up, WRONG! Tali didn't vote agaisnt the war since that choice had already been made but Tali informed them that they could talk to the geth and try negotiating, they had an vote(admiralty vote) and only Koris supported it.

Modifié par shodiswe, 05 avril 2013 - 06:34 .