4712 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Indy_S wrote...

I can't buy that the Quarians resolve is so high that not a single one of them attempts to retreat. Especially when some of their admirals are arguing to not fight. Utter extinction of them is a ridiculous hyperbole.

In the only outcome where they die, they are never told about the upload. For all they know, another Reaper backup came online, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't save them.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

There are hardly any Reapers near the Perseus Veil, otherwise, they wouldn't have tried to use the geth to stall out the quarians, now would they? They would have marched right in.

A big hole that the Destroyer fits in so snugly that it's practally tailor-made. Or did you see how that Destroyer's massive legs somehow fit perfectly inside it with no scraping against the walls of the base?
Also, how many are surrounded by jamming towers, with blast-shields, and, as said by Legion himself, placed by the Old Machines personally?

And again, Legion and Tali advocated for peace in front of the Admirals together, so I'm pretty sure he figured she wouldn't support something like this after being willing to work WITH him in front of Gerrel, Xen, and Raan. All of which didn't trust Legion's word as physical proof of geth sencirity.

You are confused.  They were not coming there to kill the Quarians or have the Geth stall them.  They were coming there because the Quarians stupidity was about to deliver them a synthetic army they could use against the rest of the Galaxy.  With RC, the Geth would have ripped throught the Quarians, no harvest required because they are too small and then the Geth would be unleased on everyone else.

Once again, you can't even tell it is a Reaper until you fire and it flies out.  It is not snug.  The hole is much larger.  It is just a big f**king hole.  If a Reaper has to fly out of a hole because it is too big, it is not tailor made for it.

When did Tali and Legion advocate for peace together?  Show me the vid.  During the Loyalty mission Tali is still supportive of War.  After peace is achieve when she talks to Shep she says flat out she would have killed the Geth with no remorse and thanks Shepard for not doing so.  So Legion has no reason to warn Tali.  Her people attacked and she didn't stop it.

Again, YES they WERE stalling the quarians. The geth already proved that with the Reaper upgrades, they could have wiped out the quarians whenever. They didn't.  Did you ever think about how the geth wipe out the quarians easily, yet take forever while under Reaper control? The Reapers intend to harvest every race. And AGAIN, desperation, not stupidity. Same reason as the geth.
Think of it this way: They both have the same exact situation - live or die. Meaning that every time you call the quarians stupid for choosing life over death, you are also calling the geth stupid for chosing life over death, because they both share the same situation.

Wrong. Did you actually SEE that hole? Or how large the legs were compared to the hole? That thing fit perfectly. And again, do you see any type of geth ship that would fit in a hole like that? Because given the insectoid shape of their ships, I don't think they would normally fit without haveing parts that could shift, like the legs of the Reaper. and AGAIN, wrong. the Reaper DIDN'T fly out. It climbed out. If you actually thought that thing ever took flight, you really need to take another look at the game.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7yyGrBLfzc
10:15
There you go. Tali & Legion tried for peace in front of the Admirals. There's the irrifutible proof. They tried for peace together. And again, Legion never returned contact after the geth suddenly pulled him back due to trouble "reaching concensis."

[Indy_S]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

I can't buy that the Quarians resolve is so high that not a single one of them attempts to retreat. Especially when some of their admirals are arguing to not fight. Utter extinction of them is a ridiculous hyperbole.

In the only outcome where they die, they are never told about the upload. For all they know, another Reaper backup came online, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't save them.

Logic should never get in the way of cowardice.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

But again, you fail to realize these are all events that no one knew happened.

Again, if a massicare like that was public, alot more people would have been protesting synthetic equality. The fact that so many welcome the geth into the war effort is proof that your "organics naturally hate synthetics" arguement is anything but true.

And again, you assume that anyone ever knew the A.I.s were there to begin with.

No people wouldn't.  No one cares about synthetic equality.  Most think of them as just tools.  That is why the Quarians tried to kill the Geth.  The only people we ever see protesting get killed by their own people for doing so. 
And once again, I know about those events.  I don't need to know all the details in the vid, I knew all of them happened.  You keep acting like because I don't know who really killed JFK that I don't know that JFK is dead.  Umm, yes I do.  I don't need to know who pushed the button, I know the genophage happened.

Wrong. They take the geth in instantly, even if you sacrifice the quarians. And AGAIN, wrong. They were arrested, not killed.
And AGAIN, those events are STILL not public knowledge.

And AGAIN, wrong, because that would technically make the genophage release illegal, since it wasn't approved by the Council.

[shodiswe]

silverexile17s wrote...

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

But again, you fail to realize these are all events that no one knew happened.

Again, if a massicare like that was public, alot more people would have been protesting synthetic equality. The fact that so many welcome the geth into the war effort is proof that your "organics naturally hate synthetics" arguement is anything but true.

And again, you assume that anyone ever knew the A.I.s were there to begin with.

No people wouldn't.  No one cares about synthetic equality.  Most think of them as just tools.  That is why the Quarians tried to kill the Geth.  The only people we ever see protesting get killed by their own people for doing so. 
And once again, I know about those events.  I don't need to know all the details in the vid, I knew all of them happened.  You keep acting like because I don't know who really killed JFK that I don't know that JFK is dead.  Umm, yes I do.  I don't need to know who pushed the button, I know the genophage happened.

Wrong. They take the geth in instantly, even if you sacrifice the quarians. And AGAIN, wrong. They were arrested, not killed.
And AGAIN, those events are STILL not public knowledge.

And AGAIN, wrong, because that would technically make the genophage release illegal, since it wasn't approved by the Council.

Some were arrested others were killed.

Modifié par shodiswe, 05 avril 2013 - 06:29 .

[Ryzaki]

Indy_S wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

I can't buy that the Quarians resolve is so high that not a single one of them attempts to retreat. Especially when some of their admirals are arguing to not fight. Utter extinction of them is a ridiculous hyperbole.

In the only outcome where they die, they are never told about the upload. For all they know, another Reaper backup came online, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't save them.

Logic should never get in the way of cowardice.

I believe if you investigate the quarian fleet rubble there's something saying some of them may have escaped just in time but there's no way to be sure.

So a small backdoor for some survivors at least.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 avril 2013 - 06:38 .

[Indy_S]

Ryzaki wrote...

I believe if you investigate the quarian fleet rubble there's something saying some of them may have escaped just in time but there's no way to be sure.

So a small backdoor for some survivors at least.

That's news to me. I can appreciate that.

[silverexile17s]

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

shodiswe wrote...
The Quarians arn't inocent people, civlians or anything, they all armed themselves and caused even more chaos and destruction when the galaxy needed to stand united. To me that looks pretty bad.
That some of the civilians didn't want to fight doesn't really help much.. The Geth didn't want to fight at all, they jsut got forced into the whole mess by a bully. I don't like stupid bully's.   I didn't back down to stupid bully's when I was young, instead I gave them a lession in pain and fear.

"Forced" because of the choices they made. If you gave the bully a lesson by beating him up and sitting in his chair, punching anyone who came close to you while claiming you wanted reconciliation, then being surprised when the bully tries to fight you to get his chair back, how much cause for complaint do you really have?

And really, it doesn't matter to you that a crapload of quarians ARE civilians? How is the Admiralty Board elected anyway? Don't admirals vote for new admirals? Would you feel responsible for the actions of a self-elected government?

The fact that they are a military dictatorship and the fact that it's part of their social identity doesn't make it any better.

But I really don't want to choose between them, I'm glad Bioware didn't force us to choose.

But again, that's wrong. The quarians AREN'T run by dictatorship.
The quarians have laws that spicifically prevent that, stating that no course of action can be forceb by the Admorals  on the fleet without unanimous concent. In other words, quarian law forbids Gerrel to force the fleet to war unless all four of the other Admirals uninamously agree and back him.
Failing that, the matter must be put to the Conclave - the quarian's senete, where every ship in the fleet has a represenitive. Then, the Conclave members poll the decision among every ship in the fleet. So no, it's actually the comeplete opposate of a dictatorship.
The majority of quarians willingly voted for this war. You can take Dorn'Hazt's word about them not wanting to go to war, but they still chose to go to war because they felt the alternitive was to die in space.

As I understood it they could force a desition but would then have to resign and "appoint" new people too see things through... And the Quarians really don't like being divided, it's deeply rooted in them, they would very rarely go against the admirality and if they did then they would just force the issue, but their seconds in command that they had themselves handpicked would most likely see their plans through.

Apparently the Admiralty thoguht this would be a good failsafe for "important decision that would allow them to force the issue if truly important in their opinion" I guess the good thing is they woudln't force the issue unless it was an important issue. On the other hand the peopel would have no real say in truly important issues.
But that's not surprising for a military ruled nation.

Least this is what Tali said when my shepard raised concern about their political system and the military rule. So in the end i'm not really wrong. The Admirals can override the Conclave if they really want it, they got that legal option.

In the end the Quarians would loose what they probably consider their most competent and experienced Admirals when going to war... Which is likely soemthing they woudln't want to risk, when they know they would get trodded on no matter what. That's why you meet that Quarian civilian on the surface that tells you the civilians didn't want a war, they didn't want it by in truth they were powerless to stop it to try would only make matters worse for them.

Koris tells you the same, he knew they didn't want it he was agaisnt it but he was outvited 2 to 1 then after that he gave the effort his full support for the sake of the fleet. After that Tali was if you helped hed her in the trial invited to become and admiral to provide her expertise on the geth. Tali was never part of the going to war vote, she just had to ride the ****storm created by Garrel(mr IgetPuntaLOT) and Xen.

Again, wrong. This happened at least five times before in quarian history. And again, the Tali and Koris opposed the war, so forcing it was out of the question anyway. And AGAIN, polled among every ship. The majority of civilians agreed to this as well.

And AGAIN, dead wrong. The quarians are not military-ruled. If they were, Gerrel wouldn't have needed votes. The quarians are diplomatic, and make decisions through debating and voting. Every ship has a say, as do the people on them. They ironcilly aren't much different then the geth in that matter - except the quarians take much longer to reach a consensis.

And again, wrong - the Admirals can't overturn them without being all in agreement - which Koris and Tali aren't. Quarian law would  forbid Gerrel from trying it, lest he be removed from his command.

And again, the quarians believed that this was the only option avalible to them - the alternitive was to die in space, and no one wants that. They all voted for it, not because they felt forced by the Admirals, but because they felt forced by fate and circumstance. You keep confusing "forced by circumstance" with "forced by military."

And Tali spicifcally says that while an Admiral in title, she can at least help Koris push back against dangrous ideals, like Xen's study of geth enslavement.
And this storm was caused by the Reapers forcing the quarians to make a choice - retake Rannoch or die.

It seems you're wrong this time, Tali was never a part of the Quarians admiralty vote on going to war, she was promoted afterwards to make her geth experience available to the admiralty and the fleet. In the case of Tali being branded a traitor of the Quarian people she becomes an advisor not an admiral. But in neither of those cases does she get a chance to vote. They make their vote, snag Tali into the speeding railwaywagon that is the Quarian ar effort and puts her and their people in danger.
And like you said, the admiralty have overriden important decitions in the past and could do it agian if forced to.
As for Garrels voting.. He is one of four admirals. Admirals, his rank isn't higher than Koris, Raan or Xen.

And yes the admiralty represents the highest power in he Quarian political system. That makes them a military dictatorship or military Oligarcy if you prefer that distinction.

Also, they could have survived jsut fine without Rannoch for the next hundred years, and if they ad bothered they could have aquired a planet for themselves instead of spending hundreds of years stockpiling weapons for a foolhardy revenge on the Geth. They were alive because the Geth allowed it, they should have been grateful for the chance, even under those harsh circumstances. The Geth could easily have persued them and destroyed the last few refugees, but the didn't. The Geth primary concern was surviving and hunting down the Fleeing Quarians might not have seemed important. I guess the Geth made a misstake there, they didn't realize how ruthless stubborn the Quarians were. That the Quarians would even be prepared to sacrifise the whole galaxy for their revenge.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRxA9l1-SgM
Play from 6:10.
Tali:  Only Koris opposed the war with me.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7yyGrBLfzc&list=EL5YlPaOxYE5s
Play from 10:34.
Tali: I was outvoted three to two.
So NO. Tali WAS part of the Admiralty vote. Also, She spicifically tells you when you invite her up to your cabin that the only reason she agreed to the post was so that she COULD have a say in the vote that wouldn't just be dismissed. And AGAIN, on the geth dreadnought, if either EDI, Liara, or Garrus is the second squadmate, she will say that she literally beggd Xen, Gerrel and Raan to try and negotiate, but that no one besides Koris thought that the geth would ever respond to the attempt. At least, that they would ever respond with anything else but plasma rounds. So, Again, you are the one that is wrong. Sorry.

And AGAIN, wrong, because they can't override decisions without ALL BEING IN UNINAMOUS AGREEMENT. Which they are NOT.  Quarian law forbids it, unless ALL FIVE ADMIRALS AGREE to the decision. Which Tali and Koris did not, so overruling the fleet is completely impossible. Did you even read any of my post?

And AGAIN, dead wrong. The codex says that power is SPLIT between the Admirals and the Conclave. Also, if they were ruled by oligarcy, why did Gerrel say they needed to vote? Isn't having public votes, like the quarians DO have, not the way an oligarcy runs?
So, AGAIN wrong.

WRONG AGAIN. The book Mass Effect: Ascencion reveals that the Migrant Fleet is falling apart faster then the ships can be repaired, and they have less then seventy years, eighty years maximum, before the fleet becomes completely defunct and they all die. And AGAIN WRONG, because searching for a world is all they DID.
They need a world that has the following:
Dextro-based.
"Shirt-Sleeves" temperature levels.
Tolerible gravity
Oxygen-based air.
Clean water.
Air particles that don't kill when breathed in.
Edible plants that don't need to be reduced to sterile paste to eat.
Abundant natural resources (the geth don't take anything from the worlds they have).
Ecosystem that matches the insect-free, mammal-spicific symbiotic ecology that Rannoch has.
HOW many worlds like that exist? The chance of it matching all the above, let alone just falling into their lap without any blowback from the Council, is unbelieveably astronomical. Remember, the last time, they discovered a planet themselves that was barely hospitable to them, and when they asked for it to be made offical with the Council, they forced them off the world at gunpoint and gave it to the elcor.
Also, AGAIN WRONG. The quarians are in a constant tipping point, as they have limited storage and few resources. The entire reason the pilgramige was created was so that they could find resources to maintain themselves. There is a carefully balanced system of food and medicine, and it's alwayse balance to the edge. War ruins that balance, as it can cause shortages on some materials. They constantly totter on having to ration everything to avoid mass starvation, which is a constant problem.
And AGAIN, revenge on the geth had ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with the decision to go to war. It was because they needed a world if they wanted their people to survive, and the geth have given them ZERO REASON to believe they will negotiate. It either retake Rannoch, or burdan the war effort and drag it down/float in space and wait to die. Life or death. The same choice the geth had.
And the geth did not let them live as a mercy. It was because they couldn't calculate the mathmatical ramafacations of genocide. Nothing else.
And Tali tells you that the quarian never attacked before now because they DID feel guilty (ME2. On the Alerei. When you find the console and Tali asks to herself what her father was doing, say that trying to reclaim the homeworld is a bad idea, then ask why the quarians didn't already try (First the top option "That's a bad idea", then the bottom option "So take it back"). Tali flat-out tells you that the while the quarians had little choice, they stil regret how they panicked and attacked the geth.
So, WRONG. Despite your claims, hatered was NOT the reason they attacked. They attacked becaus the Reapers invaded, and they needed a world if they had any hope of surviving the Reaper War. Simple as that.

Vote as in Admirals voting? like they did in Tali's trial? The conclaves function is to oversee the needs of the people that doesn't nessesarily involve the safety or security of the Fleet. Like Food, medical supplies, population growth, non-military matters, that's conclave matters.
In a way the Conclave is there to delegate matters that are beneath the Admiral oligarcs, non military matters.

Also that voting the admirals did where Tali was outvoted 3 to two with only Koris supporting her was after they had decided on the war and had bought in Tali as an expert for the war effort. That vote was wether or not they should instead talk to the Geth first.(It was after all a new option that they hadn't considered, unfortunately they choose not to)
It's commendable that Tali did try to work for a peaceful solution but the admirals, well least 3 of them didn't want to talk even if they had line of communication available. A diplomatic line that hadn't existed a few years earlier, but the quarians didn't want to talk, they prefered to speak with weapons. Thanks for digging that up, I had been looking for it.
Legion would have been the equivalent of a Geth ambassador if they choose to try negotiation.

The Quarians choose war because they didn't want to risk giving the Geth advance warning... It was the Quarians who choose not to communicate or negotiate.

As for the Dysonsphere it does tell you it's massive, unfortunately the first video you posted the player didn't scroll down on the description telling you about the massive almost complete destruction that had been inflicted to it. It would have taken them some time, especialy if they want to stick together and keep the fleet save spreading out would likely have been too much of a risk.

But in matters that affect the entire fleet, the Conclave is apart of that choice, since this is the fate of the entire fleet All those things you talk about - food, medicene, population - that's all affected by the fleet going to war, so they have a say in it. Gerrel says that they "almost had the votes" for war in ME2. And back then, Xen was against the war, calling it a waste of time. Raan stayed neutral. Koris' opinion on the war didn't change from back then. So no, it wasn't votes from the Admiralty. It was votes from the quarian populance.
So NO, unless the Conclave is in majority agreement, things like going into war do not happen.

AGAIN, wrong. From what Tali says, she returned to the Fleet almost immediately after Shepard surrendeded to Alliance custody. Tali tells you stright-up that she was presant when Xen presented her viral weapons, and was there when the offer to go to war was made to the quarians. She was there to vote on it.
Also, AGAIN wrong. Do you remember the line "Only Koris opposed the war with me." If Tali is exiled, she says that "Koris was the lone voice opposing the war."
See the difference? If Tali isn't an exile, she spicifically states being there to oppose the war effort alongside Koris. She was part of the choice from the start.
And again, wrong, because Legion neglected to bring any proof of it's sencirity (although, what it COULD bring as proof is questionable, since there are no longer Heretics to fight, either being destroyed or rewritten at this point). After all, one geth being peaceful doesn't balance out the sight of thousands attacking the Citadel alongside Saren and Sovergein. To the quarians, trusting a single geth as a representitive of the geth over the tens of thousands that killed without mercy...
Well, to put it in terms you'd understand, it would be like taking Kelly Chambers at her word when she says that Cerberus' goals do not include or invilve prejudice to aliens.
What Legion says may be true, they know that's a possibility. But based on what they've seen from the (assumed) majority of geth that attacked the Citadel,  it seems so goddamned unlikely that Legion is truthful, that they'd feel they have a better chance of Harbinger dropping out of the sky to have a tea party with them, compared to the chance of what they think Legion says being true is.  So they don't risk it.
After all, no unarmed ship entering the Veil ever met with anything except a shotgun to the brain, so they figure, "why shoudn't we bring a shotgun of our own?" Yes, it was a bit rash, and born of fear, but it's understandible compared to the reputation the geth built up over 300 years of killing anyone that ever did try to speak to them. A fear that the Heretics only compounded.

Again, the Migrant Fleet is 50,000 ships. The megastructure was nowhere near finished. And, in truth, it wasn't an actual "structure." It was a web of solar collector sattilites, linked by invisible webs of wireless energy transfer beams, which were in-turn wirelessly transmitting to about a dozen stations surrounding the "web." It was less of an "egg" and more of a giant spiderweb. Fragile, and easily ripped appart. So no, the geth's dyson "Bubble" (a fragile web of solar collection sattilites surrounding the star) is not as tough or durible as a dyson "Sphere" (a solid shell that completely encompases the star). So it actually wouldn't be that hard to destroy, The trick would be to get past the geth fleet and the armed stations around it. Which Xen's "Viral Flash-bang" takes care of by disabling most geth ships and weapons

Modifié par silverexile17s, 05 avril 2013 - 06:56 .

[Indy_S]

This isn't Egypt. Please limit your pyramids to just two prior comments. One would be even better.

[silverexile17s]

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

But again, you fail to realize these are all events that no one knew happened.

Again, if a massicare like that was public, alot more people would have been protesting synthetic equality. The fact that so many welcome the geth into the war effort is proof that your "organics naturally hate synthetics" arguement is anything but true.

And again, you assume that anyone ever knew the A.I.s were there to begin with.

No people wouldn't.  No one cares about synthetic equality.  Most think of them as just tools.  That is why the Quarians tried to kill the Geth.  The only people we ever see protesting get killed by their own people for doing so. 
And once again, I know about those events.  I don't need to know all the details in the vid, I knew all of them happened.  You keep acting like because I don't know who really killed JFK that I don't know that JFK is dead.  Umm, yes I do.  I don't need to know who pushed the button, I know the genophage happened.

Wrong. They take the geth in instantly, even if you sacrifice the quarians. And AGAIN, wrong. They were arrested, not killed.
And AGAIN, those events are STILL not public knowledge.

And AGAIN, wrong, because that would technically make the genophage release illegal, since it wasn't approved by the Council.

Some were arrested others were killed.

No. Most were arrested. And the only death we see is Magara, which died in a door breach. Meaning that for all we know, Magara's death was a complete accident.

[silverexile17s]

Ryzaki wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

I can't buy that the Quarians resolve is so high that not a single one of them attempts to retreat. Especially when some of their admirals are arguing to not fight. Utter extinction of them is a ridiculous hyperbole.

In the only outcome where they die, they are never told about the upload. For all they know, another Reaper backup came online, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't save them.

Logic should never get in the way of cowardice.

I believe if you investigate the quarian fleet rubble there's something saying some of them may have escaped just in time but there's no way to be sure.

So a small backdoor for some survivors at least.

Not really. They scatter into the Perseus Veil, and since you didn't make peace, the geth are done letting quarians escape, since the last time they let the quarians go, it didn't solve anything. They intend to finish the job for good in the "choose geth" ending of the Rannoch War.

[silverexile17s]

Indy_S wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

I can't buy that the Quarians resolve is so high that not a single one of them attempts to retreat. Especially when some of their admirals are arguing to not fight. Utter extinction of them is a ridiculous hyperbole.

In the only outcome where they die, they are never told about the upload. For all they know, another Reaper backup came online, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't save them.

Logic should never get in the way of cowardice.

Tell that to the geth. Remember them? Sided with the Reapers because they were afriad to die? JUST like how the quarians attacked Rannoch because THEY were afraid to die at the hands of the Reapers themselves?

[silverexile17s]

Indy_S wrote...

This isn't Egypt. Please limit your pyramids to just two prior comments. One would be even better.

Never learned how to do that without messing up the quotes. .

[DeinonSlayer]

Indy_S wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I believe if you investigate the quarian fleet rubble there's something saying some of them may have escaped just in time but there's no way to be sure.

So a small backdoor for some survivors at least.

That's news to me. I can appreciate that.

Just remembered that there's a different codex entry for each possible outcome for Rannoch. Here's Quarian defeat:

The quarians re-engaged the geth fleet, expecting to find their enemy now hobbled. Instead, the geth responded with unparalleled precision, devastating the fighters that the quarians used as scout ships. This forced the quarians to commit other forces earlier than planned. The geth then attacked the quarian rear with a second fleet that they had held in reserve, laying waste to the liveships and Civilian Fleet. The quarians, knowing the liveships would not survive long if they were forced to retreat without protection, threw every ship into the battle. The geth fought mechanically, downing ship after ship as the quarians flailed in desperation. Some few quarian ships did escape -- but alone and on the run in geth space, they are living numbered days.

[Indy_S]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Just remembered that there's a different codex entry for each possible outcome for Rannoch. Here's Quarian defeat:

The quarians re-engaged the geth fleet, expecting to find their enemy now hobbled. Instead, the geth responded with unparalleled precision, devastating the fighters that the quarians used as scout ships. This forced the quarians to commit other forces earlier than planned. The geth then attacked the quarian rear with a second fleet that they had held in reserve, laying waste to the liveships and Civilian Fleet. The quarians, knowing the liveships would not survive long if they were forced to retreat without protection, threw every ship into the battle. The geth fought mechanically, downing ship after ship as the quarians flailed in desperation. Some few quarian ships did escape -- but alone and on the run in geth space, they are living numbered days.

Any allusions I had before are gone. The Geth were efficient and successful. Now if only such traits could be assigned to the Reapers...

[DeinonSlayer]

For the record, the entry on Geth defeat:

After the quarians eliminated the Reaper, the geth's processing power dropped precipitously and their bandwidth became clogged with queries for new instructions. Quarian fighters reported the exact positions of geth ships so that the liveships could fire safely on the geth from the far side of Tikkun, using the star's gravity as a slingshot. The geth command-and-control network was now in tatters, their forces separated by vast distances. The quarians hunted them like animals. It was not a one-sided victory -- despite vast losses, the geth staged a tireless defense -- but it was final.

[Indy_S]

Now I have to ask who wrote the codex entries for those because they're pretty kickass.

[DeinonSlayer]

And finally, PEACE:

When the Reaper uplink was disrupted, the geth suffered momentary downgrades in response time and intelligence, allowing the quarians to press their advantage. But emergency orders from Commander Shepard and Admiral Shala'Raan vas Tonbay broke off hostilities before the geth's full capabilities were restored. It is to the quarians' credit that all three fleets obeyed the order to cease fire, even the Civilian Fleet, which had little combat experience. The geth, for their part, bore no ill will towards enemy combatants and broke off hostilities with perfect discipline.

It remains to be seen how the geth and the quarians will manage to coexist on Rannoch. For now, they have committed their considerable military forces to repel the Reapers. Given the long-lasting animosity between the geth and quarians, it is possible that the Reapers did not plan for the possibility of such an alliance and will be unprepared to contend with both armadas.

[Argolas]

Indy_S wrote...

I can't buy that the Quarians resolve is so high that not a single one of them attempts to retreat. Especially when some of their admirals are arguing to not fight. Utter extinction of them is a ridiculous hyperbole.

Their population is down to 17 Million BEFORE the war. 17 Million is alraedy incredibly few. They lose their major lifeships if you side with the Geth. Even if a few vessels escape, there will not be left enough for their race to survive.

[shodiswe]

@ Silver

So... You claim the Quarians made Tali an admiral immediately after coming back to the fleet? Because it was said she was made an admiral to help them with the war effort as a technocal expert on the Geth. The war necessitated additional experts like Tali. The fact that she was with the fleet didn't make her an admiral from the get go.
Also when you meet the admirals before going to the Rannoch system you learn that Rannoch isn't the first system they attacked, they drove the Geth from other systems on the way to rannoch. The war didn't start with the attack on the sphere, the Geth did have plenty of time, but during their attack on the shere the signal got activated.
They don't specificly tell you how long they had been fighting that war until they got into trouble.
On the citadel you're told that spectre inteligence is worried about a war breaking up and Quarian ships moving in on the geth and recalling all quarians on pilgrimage.
Then they fight the geth system by system til they get to the Geth's home system tannoch where the geth had collected and consolidated their forces for a last stand.
You are accusing the Geth to have had reaper influence from before the Quarians attacked, when everything here tells us they hadn't, the Quarians were quite sucessful at nearly wiping out the Geth race/species.. Then in their desperation they accepted the Reaper offer hoping it would buy them some time..
In other wors you're wrong what you're saying is jsut headcannon on your part.
I don't even think Tali got to vote if the conclave had a chance to vote, noone says the conclave had a vote. But only crewmembers of Quarian ships get to vote, Tali isn't recognized following the admirals choice to make her Tali Zorah Vas Normandy, a non flotilla ship.
How can that survivor on Rannoch tell you the civilians didn't want war? How can Koris tell you they didn't want that war if they were allowed to vote on it? They would have won that vote in that case?
Logic dictates that the claim of a conclave vote makes no sense. Unless it was overriden by the admiralty, yet there they are.
Further more we're told the Admirals had no interest in trying to communicate or negotiate, they voted agaisnt it 3 to 2 after Tali brought it up after they had already decided to go to war. Tali was brought in to advice and help with the war effort.

It pleases me that Tali didn't betray my Shepard's confidence, it's unfortunate that the Quarian Admiralty oligarchy decided to go agasint the will of the citadel council and my Shepard, and from what we're told the will of their people. It is also unfortunate that they see peacetalks, negotiations and coexistance as undesirable. They really arn't good at making a case for the Quarians side of it. The Quarian side of it when looking at it objectively looks really bad.

Modifié par shodiswe, 05 avril 2013 - 08:03 .

[Indy_S]

Can you at least edit that down?

[shodiswe]

Indy_S wrote...

Can you at least edit that down?

Unfortunately i'm terrible at editing Quotes, especialy when I got 10-20 levels of quotes  It's just overwhelming.

So, I just deleted all those pesky quotes, it's easier than selectively removign the right amount of quotes and /quote to not break the quotes.

Modifié par shodiswe, 05 avril 2013 - 09:11 .

[S.A.K]

I just tried thinking what would have happened if the Quarians did try to contact the Geth peacefully without shooting first.

If Quarians sent a fleet or unarmed ships to contact the Geth, those would have been blown the hell up just like all other ship in the last 300 years. And Geth were not willing to communicate over coms (they never responded). So the only option was to go in with guns blazing. Geth joined the Reapers when the they realized it was too much for them. Later claims everything they did was in self-defence and act like they are all so peaceful. Only Geth we ever see trying to communicate was Legion. Who is just one Geth operating alone. And even he join the Reapers willingly. Feel free to disprove this.

[Argolas]

I ask once again: Why did the Geth insist on staying on Rannoch? They had it coming. They knew this would be the only possible homeworld for every living quarian. It was clear that the Quarians would come for them once they are able to.

[Stigweird85]

I'm sorry but once again I must pin my thoughts down here.

As much as Geth become sentient or AI advances, AI can not and will not ever be "alive"

Disclaimer first: Removing the debatable aspect of a soul from this argument a geth can only mimmick what it has learned. Even with the most advanced algorithms Geth will still be bound by the original programming parameters, so while they can "learn" they will always have some form of restriction or limitation.

Also Geth cannot recreate the spontaneity of real people, nor can they replicate the ingunity, stupidity and just sheer crazyness of people. Think about cleverbot as an example, it can act like a human based on other users input but on Day 1 it very limited, even today it has learned a lot of it is nothing more that a parrot system learning to repeat certain words and phrases.