And you want me to allow 17 million people to die in hopes the Geth VI changed his murdering ways?
What murderous ways? The Quarains keep shooting and the Geth VI do what any body would do when the enemy refuses to stop shooting.
1. At 17 seconds, do you hear Gherel say the Geth are completely vulnerable? 2. At 1:01, do you see the Geth VI say they can help the war if the the creators no longer threaten us. 3. Do you see at 1:26, Gherel says, "negative Tali, the SITUATION is under control."
So please explain how the Geth VI is murderous. He says they can help the war if the creators no longer threaten us. The Creators refuse to accept Tali's order and continues to threaten them. If those 17 million people wanted to live, they should have ignored Gherel's order or someone should have asked Tali why she gave it.
However self defense is defense against a murder charge. Gherel refusing to stop firing on the Geth precludes a charge of murder. The whole fleet continue to fire on the Geth precludes a charge of murder.
Now if you are going to disagree, I don't want opinion, I want facts. The stroy in the game is clear.
Uh, Gherel stops firing if you tell him the situation. If you don't, it's because the player screwed something up and didn't meet the given parameters such as squad mate dead or unloyal. In this case he don't have a reason not to believe the Geth wouldn't fire when they come to their senses.
This doesn't address the point. I will say again, in the non-peace options, why is peace not achieved? The answer you guys refuse to admit is that peace is not achieved because some combination of 3 Admirals (Tali, Gherel and Raan) can talk to each other properly.
Telling me peace is possible when Shepard takes over for these idiots has nothing to do with the OP. I am simply asking you guys to honestly answer the question not metagame me. What is the in game reason peace does not happen? Simple question dude.
And you want me to allow 17 million people to die in hopes the Geth VI changed his murdering ways?
What murderous ways?
---
Now if you are going to disagree, I don't want opinion, I want facts. The stroy in the game is clear.
The story is up to interpretation, pal. This whole debate is here because of how people look at this situation differently.
And I was referring to the actions he made in the Morning War. Chemical warfare is akin to murder. Billions of people dead in the span of a year is not self-defense. I let the Geth die for everything they did over the course of 300 years, you allow 17 million people die for the actions of a few leaders.
Not sure about the war crimes part. But for once I can agree with you.
That is why I said IF there is a war crime to recognize it is up for debate. You could argue that strapping guns on civlian ships and using them in war is an attempt to use civiians as shields. It is debatable and I do think the game mentions the Quarians trying to keep them from direct fire but clearly with Koris being downed, they didn't do a good job of it.
The story is up to interpretation, pal. This whole debate is here because of how people look at this situation differently.
And I was referring to the actions he made in the Morning War. Chemical warfare is akin to murder. Billions of people dead in the span of a year is not self-defense. I let the Geth die for everything they did over the course of 300 years, you allow 17 million people die for the actions of a few leaders.
Agree to disagree.
An no one has explained how I am suppose to interpret that scene as anything but self defense.
And just as an aside, was the biological warfare of the genophage murderous or is killing stillborn Krogan babies that never attacked anyone ok? Also, using experiments on dismembered Geth to create a weapon that disables them all allowing you to more efficiently exterminate them, is that essentially a biological or chemical weapon to a synthethic?
Just trying to gauge where we draw the line on chemical or biological warfare as irrespective of this debate it is interesting to consider when people think it is ok and how they would view the synthetic equivalent ie Xen's weapon.
An no one has explained how I am suppose to interpret that scene as anything but self defense.
And just as an aside, was the biological warfare of the genophage murderous or is killing stillborn Krogan babies that never attacked anyone ok? Also, using experiments on dismembered Geth to create a weapon that disables them all allowing you to more efficiently exterminate them, is that essentially a biological or chemical weapon to a synthethic?
Just trying to gauge where we draw the line on chemical or biological warfare as irrespective of this debate it is interesting to consider when people think it is ok and how they would view the synthetic equivalent ie Xen's weapon.
. Killing billions of people in one year far outstrips self defense. I don't think the elderly, children, and non-combatants the geth killed were a threat, yet they died anyways.
And the genophage was also wrong. Justifiable, but wrong.
The story is up to interpretation, pal. This whole debate is here because of how people look at this situation differently.
And I was referring to the actions he made in the Morning War. Chemical warfare is akin to murder. Billions of people dead in the span of a year is not self-defense. I let the Geth die for everything they did over the course of 300 years, you allow 17 million people die for the actions of a few leaders.
Agree to disagree.
An no one has explained how I am suppose to interpret that scene as anything but self defense.
And just as an aside, was the biological warfare of the genophage murderous or is killing stillborn Krogan babies that never attacked anyone ok? Also, using experiments on dismembered Geth to create a weapon that disables them all allowing you to more efficiently exterminate them, is that essentially a biological or chemical weapon to a synthethic?
Just trying to gauge where we draw the line on chemical or biological warfare as irrespective of this debate it is interesting to consider when people think it is ok and how they would view the synthetic equivalent ie Xen's weapon.
The Quarians also tried to kill billions of geth in the Mourn ing war, their goal was the extermination of their oponent. Again in ME3 they attack the sphere that's not orbiting the homeworld or on the homeworld as part of their "extermination" campaign against the geth.
Both are using hiddeous tactics and methods, the Quarians that attacked the Geth sphere are still alive and could theoreticaly be sent to trial.. all 17 million of them who were there on those ships. And the Quarians are arming their civilian liveships with massive guns makign them prime targets. This also meant that they gained a weakness by having large very vulnerable and at the same time extremely valuable ships brought into the war effort. But then again, Quarians arn't known for their ethics.
Both did therrible things but in the end there is one thing the Quarians did that stands out, they initiated each and every conflic with the Geth. The Geth merely defended themselves, even if the desperation might have lead to some extreame messure for survival. But if you look at it then I'm pretty sure you will realize that the Geth would have died if they didn't eventualy shift thier tactics when it became clear that the "creators" would never listen to them or care or change their minds.
But the cute adorable geth didn't know any better!
Clearly that excuses everything!!!
Perhaps you could tell me what the Geth should have done to survive the mourning war? or the Quarian attack in ME3? That would be more "acceptable". Something that woudl be even remotely possible? Other than submittign to slavery and reprogramming? I'm not even sure the Quarians would have dared accept that offer being made openly. The Quarians didn't jsut want Rannoch, they wanted every last Geth destroyed so that they could never ever threaten them again.
I don't know much about how else the Morning War could have played out.
As for ME3? How about not basing themselves in the quarian home system, which is guaranteed to be the one system the Quarians are willing to do anything to get back.
The quarians didn't learn from their mistakes due to the bitterness of exile.
The geth though? The geth have no excuse.
Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 06 avril 2013 - 06:11 .
Of course, the quarians continue to be Aryan Perfection. The quarian side continues to scare and stupefy me. They're just a victimised master race. Of course.
Also, picking on spelling, really? That shows when you don't have much of an argument.
To be honest, I think this debate is over. I just can't see the quarian side being reasonable. We're not going to get past the Aryan Perfection thing.
Of course, the quarians continue to be Aryan Perfection. The quarian side continues to scare and stupefy me. They're just a victimised master race. Of course.
Also, picking on spelling, really? That shows when you don't have much of an argument.
To be honest, I think this debate is over. I just can't see the quarian side being reasonable. We're not going to get past the Aryan Perfection thing.
Lol, who here said anything about perfection? You are the only one talking about it.
He was not picking on spelling, he was correcting him.
Uh, Gherel stops firing if you tell him the situation. If you don't, it's because the player screwed something up and didn't meet the given parameters such as squad mate dead or unloyal. In this case he don't have a reason not to believe the Geth wouldn't fire when they come to their senses.
This doesn't address the point. I will say again, in the non-peace options, why is peace not achieved? The answer you guys refuse to admit is that peace is not achieved because some combination of 3 Admirals (Tali, Gherel and Raan) can talk to each other properly.
Telling me peace is possible when Shepard takes over for these idiots has nothing to do with the OP. I am simply asking you guys to honestly answer the question not metagame me. What is the in game reason peace does not happen? Simple question dude.
Gherel thinks he can take the Geth and he does not get enough information. Now you tell me this, wouldn't the Geth have fired if Quarian ships approched Rannoch before the war, even if these were unarmed civilian ships? And why didn't the Geth just leave Rannoch after the Morning war? Legion says they do not use the planet. If they did, quarians wouldn't have to start the war. Don't tell me Geth were too stupid to undestand Quarians would want their world back.
Not sure about the war crimes part. But for once I can agree with you.
That is why I said IF there is a war crime to recognize it is up for debate. You could argue that strapping guns on civlian ships and using them in war is an attempt to use civiians as shields. It is debatable and I do think the game mentions the Quarians trying to keep them from direct fire but clearly with Koris being downed, they didn't do a good job of it.
Look, the Morning War is not that complicated of a matter. The quarians panicked and committed genocide against the geth. The geth panicked and committed genocide against the quarians in return. Both sides killed countless innocents of the other. You can't justify that the quarians attacked peaceful geth units. You can't justify that the geth slaughtered quarian innocents and children.
Killing billions of people in one year far outstrips self defense. I don't think the elderly, children, and non-combatants the geth killed were a threat, yet they died anyways.
And the genophage was also wrong. Justifiable, but wrong.
I was not referring to the MW. The scene I posted was the Geth VI returning fire on the Quarians.
And fair enough on the genophage. Do you consider Xen's weapon that disables all Geth the equivalent of a biological or chemical weapon from the perspective of a synthetic. If not, why?
Thats why I said not sure. *facepalm* Can't even agree with you without taking sh!t-storm from you.
Did I attack you or use offensive language. That was not a **** storm. That was me explaining why I made the statement I did and providing a link that discusses the issue of human shields.
Not everything is meant to be an attack.
S.A.K wrote...
Gherel thinks he can take the Geth and he does not get enough information. Now you tell me this, wouldn't the Geth have fired if Quarian ships approched Rannoch before the war, even if these were unarmed civilian ships? And why didn't the Geth just leave Rannoch after the Morning war? Legion says they do not use the planet. If they did, quarians wouldn't have to start the war. Don't tell me Geth were too stupid to undestand Quarians would want their world back.
This still ignores the question. I understand why he does what he does. That does not change the fact I am forced to decide who to exterminate because the Quarians can't communicate with each other. Once again, whose fault is it, I am forced to decide? Now who is avoiding the simple question.
Uh, Gherel stops firing if you tell him the situation. If you don't, it's because the player screwed something up and didn't meet the given parameters such as squad mate dead or unloyal. In this case he don't have a reason not to believe the Geth wouldn't fire when they come to their senses.
This doesn't address the point. I will say again, in the non-peace options, why is peace not achieved? The answer you guys refuse to admit is that peace is not achieved because some combination of 3 Admirals (Tali, Gherel and Raan) can talk to each other properly.
Telling me peace is possible when Shepard takes over for these idiots has nothing to do with the OP. I am simply asking you guys to honestly answer the question not metagame me. What is the in game reason peace does not happen? Simple question dude.
Gherel thinks he can take the Geth and he does not get enough information. Now you tell me this, wouldn't the Geth have fired if Quarian ships approched Rannoch before the war, even if these were unarmed civilian ships? And why didn't the Geth just leave Rannoch after the Morning war? Legion says they do not use the planet. If they did, quarians wouldn't have to start the war. Don't tell me Geth were too stupid to undestand Quarians would want their world back.
Probably the same thing as the Quarians would have done! Shoot first, pickup the pieces later. After all they are very much alike.
Something like this probably:
It would seem like a reasonable guess as to what would happen.
Maybe a little bit of this.
Also I doubt anyone would sent unarmed ships into Geth space and armed ships would probably look like an attack. Rong range communication would probably work best. What would be required to get their attention or a response outside of direct messageses to Legion is unknown. Also Quarian trust among the geth is probably pretty low and given the council records the old council races arn't likely to be the most popular either seeing as they got a record of killing synthetics attempting to establish peaceful relations.
silverexile17s wrote... No, they DIDN'T. Legion is isolated from the consensis. He was acting completely indipendant. And when Legion did return to the Veil, he NEVER RETURNED ANY OF TALI'S COMMS AFTER THAT.
Tali tells you Legion returned to geth space immediately, she and Legion traded some messageses for a while she brought up the possibilities to the Admiralty but they voted agaisnt a diplomatic settlement.
In game video of that conversation should be proof enough. I would say you are trolling but it's possible you treated Legion badly and took Tali's side in every conflict resulting in a Legion that didn't want to talk. Which it is Ican't tell, sounds like you are trolling though.
silverexile17s wrote... Also, Legion.... never physically was there, actually. He spoke with Tali and the Admirals via wireless communication. He didn't trust the Admirals either. Most likely, he didn't trust that Xen wouldn't disect him before he could speak, or that Gerrel wouldn't hold him as a POW if things went south. The quarians DID look at the option, but it was outvoted. Gerrel saw little to no reason to take Legion's word. Xen didn't see the geth having any right to live as equal to their "masters." Raan didn't believe any form of peace could be possible with all the bad blood between the two factions.
You must be trolling... First he wasn't returning calls after returning home immediately then all of a sudden he was communicating via wireless communication? Also the distrust you suspect Legion to have does seem reasonable, the only thing that stops the Quarians from doing such a thing to Legion is the fact that Legion is either under Shepards protection or protected onboard a humanship which works as a neutral party in the Geth/Quarian conflict. Wireless communication is a good first step to establish a line of communication, if the admirals really wanted to talk and showed serious interest then it might have been possible for them to arrange something. What's important to note is that the Admirals didnt want to talk. Legion said they would talk if the Quarians showed them they were interested in doing so, and that it was in the best interest of the Quarian people to do so.
Or as Legion would have said;
silverexile17s wrote...
shodiswe wrote...
silverexile17s wrote...
remydat wrote...
silverexile17s wrote...
Because the relays have no user restrictions like the Citadel, for one? Because it's stated in the Codex that the Reapers are as dependant on relay traval as the rest of the galaxy, for another? Because the only path to the Perseus Veil is occupied by said 50,000 ships and and the Reaper would have to get past them, maybe? And the quarians are experts at logistics, and the Patrol fleet is almost all scouting ships with advanced sensor suites. So YES, they WOULD be able to see the Reaper overtake them.
Can you provide a link that says ships can see each other as they travel the mass relays? Do you think I can look out the window and see an object travel faster than the speed of light as it zips by me?
Also, when the Normandy travels to the Perseus Veil, does it have to go through the Far Rim? Not in front of my game so can't verify this.
The Codex Entry "Mass Relays" for ME3. It states that the Reapers use the Mass Relays with impunity to get around, and the Codex entry "Desperate Measures" talks about blowing the Relays to delay Reaper invasion. There is your proof. And also, Engineer Adams told you on the Normandy SR-1 that going to FTL is like lighting off a flare to anyone around you. Impossible to miss on sensors. So YES, the quarians would be unable to miss a Reaper Destroyer.
Also, did you actually forget the Normandy is a Stealth Ship??. One that Cerberus upgraded to be able to fly at FTL without disengaging the Stealth drive - a feature the Reapers never bothered to get, given how they are detected so damn easily when they enter a system. Honestly, this is stuff that anyone reading the lore would know about.
The FTL flare is from the shipboard FTL engines that are used when traveling between stars in a starcluster... Without the use of a relay... Which is the origin of FTL flares. Blowing up relays would only create a short delay for the reapers as proven by the Arrival DLC.
The type of engines that the fleet around earth used to escape from the crusible blast.
There seems to be a lot of errors in your comments, secondly even if they used their reaper FTL drives at soem point it would be impossible for the Quarians to identify what type of ship it was that used FTL unless they spot it before they activate FTL. They wouldn't know if it's Geth Quarian, volus or human. They would however know that something was there. And assuming they keep track of their own ships then they woudl have to assume it wasn't Quarian.
No. That's incorrect. Engineer Adams tells you in ME1 that going to FTL blue-shifts emmisions, making the ship easy to detect. FTL is used for travel between systems. (NOT culsters, as that requires Relay-based traval. FTL is the conventonal travel between systems that uses fuel to acomplish.) FTL "flares" are the short bursts that come from Relay traval. Conventonal FTL is a "burn" effect that leaves a visable trail, and allows one to track the ship itself.
The type of engines the fleet uses to escape the Crucible are no different - you can track them by following the FTL trail, or homing on the "Burn" of the ship engines.
So NO. Only your self-perceved errors. Also, Reapers have signifigantly improved drives, with a higher output then standard ships. Their more advanced technology makes them easy to pick out among enemy ships. Besides, ANY ship going into the Veil that isn't regesterd as part of their fleet would still draw attention. So getting detected would still draw the fleet on it.
I did say FTL is used within clusters, apparetly the Reapers can use it to travel much longer distances than that though and at twice the FTL speed. It's interesting how many times Shepard has been using relays and FTL's in enemy systems and managed to stay undetected. There might be a flare but identifying it is a different story, ships like the Normandy are harder to detect and identify but not impossible when the flare is noticed. The Flare is a temporary anomaly thoguh and unless you track it to the source it will be hard to identify the ship. Reaper ships could possibly harder to detect since it doesn't seem like they care about being discrete about their comming and goings. Futher more the Reapers are aware of all relays in the network, the allied forces or the Quarians arn't. They might very well have back doors to certain areas which would explain how they seem to be everywhere. Just because a or a few reaper ships might be roaming the Veil doesn't meen the Geth invited them, the Reapers go where ever they like. I'm pretty sure the Reapers wether they came to that sector of space earlier or during or later told the Geth about the Quarians plans, the the Quarians confirmed the Reapers claims and insane beliefs about unavoidable synthetic/organic conflict and offered their help with a "solution". But yet again most non-quest systems will have Sovereign class dreadnaughts close in on you if you use your scanner.
And it seem we agree that the Geth didn't accept the deal until almost seventeen days after the slaughter had started, that's pretty resilient of the Geth tbh. I'm pretty sure Udina would have been pretty fast at accepting a deal that would avenge humanity if the Turians had done to Humanity what the Quarians did to the Geth.
The Geth can't make a peace on their own the Quarians have to show some interest in peace for any such atempts to work. I bought Legion to Koris in ME2 so he would have known it was up to the Quarians, and Tali told the Admiralty as much, but they voted no to peace.
Also people keep saying the Quarians are alive but I can't eat their food they might aswell be made of plastic for all I know. Dextros arn't humans or even close to us.. Trying to eat a Quarian would provide no nutrient value what so ever... It would be like eating plastic bags which woudl cause digestion problems and possibly an alergic reaction. What use do we have of Dextros? We can't eat their food their flora and fauna are worthless to us unless we try to turn it into some kind of engine oil or something... lubricants or some kind of biofuel. We have no use for them none what so ever! (Kind of going by what Tali said about synthetics and it would fit thier people just as well.) Tbh they arn't more useful to anyone else than the Geth would be, fact is most people in the galaxy seem to think Quarians are more trouble than they are worth.
The Quarians really needs to get of their high horses, because their prejudice is what almost ended up makign their species go extinct 300 years ago and now they are repeating the same misstake again for the same stupid reasons. If they truly had learned from their misstakes then they would have tried a different approach. My Shepard even told them not to go to war, and the Quarians knew the Reapers were coming, they had intel of their own telling them this. But they still didn't care they were still to selfimportant and busy playing highwaymen and executing a strategy similar to that of the third reich.. Then, when things wen't poorly for them the second time they tried to genocide the geth, they asked the galaxy for help again.
Great!
WRONG. If anything, you seem to be trolling the quarians in general. Also, the fact that Legion had to be physically recalled to the Consensis is more proof. Legion tells you that he is an advanced unit, his networked architecture too complex even for Reaper control. If he "dies" on the Collector Base, there is no back-up with enough space to handle his memory and programs. Also, Legion had to physically return to geth space to present his "proof" of the Reaper's imminate return. If he really was a part of the Consensis full-time, he wouldn't have needed to physically return to the geth to provide his proof. He would have used wireless transfer. I think that you aren't looking at any of the points before responding, since you have confused Legion returning to geth space, with Legion re-joining the Consensis. After all, Legion tells you that he was spicifically built to NOT need to be connected to the Consensis 24/7, so that he could last in deep recon beyond the Veil. That's why they made him a "miniturized server" - a walking town of geth programs, that eventually merge to form a single person. He was spicifically made to be independant.
AGAIN, WRONG. Legion went to geth space. Then was in wireless contact with Tali and the Admirals. Then, Tali informs you that the Consensis called for him because they were in some form of chaos. If you are talking about Tali's loyalty mission, most of the people there seem to think Legion is a hacked mech (Tali tells the quarian shuttle guard that it"s "under our control."). If you mean Xen, yes, she would likely have tried disecting it imeediately. Gerrel doesn't even seem to acknowlede Legion's presance, but he may not know Legion is a real geth. After all, Xen herself initially assumed Legion was an empty "geth shell" over a mech. And yes, you ARE right on Legion taking understandible precautions. Which I'm sure had something to do with what he knew/witnessed on the Alerei. But again, Gerrel saw no reason to trust Legion at face value. After all, did you believe the Illusive Man's word when he said Controling the Reapers was possible? It's telling you the exact opposate of everything you think. And the ironic thing is, what TIM says ends up being true, meaning that Shepard did to TIM what the quarians did to the geth. Only difference is, TIM was a ruthless bastard. And indoctrinated. The point being, if someone came up and told you that everything you know about the people that attacked everyone is wrong, and do so with no physical proof or deed to back it up, are you going to believe them. Xen, well... She views the geth the same way TIM views the Reapers. The two are almost counterparts: Ruthless, sociopathic, ambitious, desiring nothing more then seeing their race at the top of the pecking order. Their personalities are almost carbon-copyed. So, her vote was always going to be obvious. Raan never saw anything that could prove the geth and quarian could co-habitate. She figured that there was too many wounds, and too much bad blood on both sides for peace to work. You can't expect the Admirals to gamble 17 million on the word of a single geth. It's asking a bit much to say the least.
It would still be picked up. The quarians could have seen it coming a mile away in that case. Also, intersystem traval is easier to pick up. There are three forms of movement. Navagation thrutsers - the movent between planets in a system. Impossible to detect conventional thrusters on avarage unless actively looking. FTL - travel between systems in a cluster. Blue-shifted emmisions give away the ships position and speed like lighting a flare and running with it. FTL Jump - Mass Relay use. Same as above. And if anything, not caring about being discreat would make it easier to detect them. The galaxy had tabs on them wherever they went. Yet were still losing forces to them. Why else do you think so many felt so desperate? It wasn't that they hit to fast. It's that even when they knew the when and where, they still got K.O.d in many engagements. And again, wrong. All relays are connected to the centeral netwrok of the Citadel. They know were the Relays are, but never used them for fear of another Rachni Wars. However, as far as I can tell, there is only on surefire path into the Perseus Veil, and the quarians took it.
Also, it was a single Reaper destroyer. The quarians salvaged tugs destroyed, so I find it hard to believe that the entire geth war fleet - completely intact, being pre-war- would have any trouble with the single Destroyer the Reapers sent. That Destroyer came to them despite being able to be destroyed at a moments notice. The geth didn't destroy it despite having the power to do so. Hence, they invited it in. Also that's not true. I saw no Reapers in the Ismar Frontier. Or the Far Rim. And it's elaborated very on that the Reapers simply forced their way in through all the relays. Also, it only gives credidance that the Reapers played the table to their advantage. The more time the geth spent worrying about possible quarian attack, the less time they would spend debating on whether to fight the Reapers themselves. It's ironic. The Reapers panic the quarians into trying to get thein world back, and then the Reapers panic the geth by telling them the quarians have panicked.
Yes, the geth didn't take up the offer until there was no longer any place to retreat to. They had pulled back all geth from the outlying systems, saving the majoriyty of programs in geth space by consolidating them on Rannoch. However, a good deal of the stations and physical bodies were scrapped by the quarian's inavsion. Saving programs is only a partial victory if there isn't any bodies to put them in, meaning they are out of the fight. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that 15% of geth in the galaxy died in the Quarians mad dash through the Perseus Veil. That number increases by 7% if you killed the Heretics, and even more since the geth processing power is less then it would be without them. In other words, if you saved the Hereicts, at least 10-15% of the geth die. If you killed the Heretics, then what is likely 25-30% of the geth die. The crippling blow was the megastructure attack. The loss of geth life was not actually extreme in that (several thousand. Not extreme since the majority of the billions of geth programs were on Rannoch), but the attack fractured geth communication. All geth were severed from their main consensis. They were fractured. Unable to connect to each-other to form consensis of any real sort. All geth in the galaxy were suddenly segregated and seperate from each-other. All geth were suddenly alone in their shells with no contact to any other geth. They panicked and collectively, the vast majority of geth couldn't bear living without consensis - without each-other - and finally took the Reapers up on their offer. Even more ironic is that the Quarians may never have actually realized what they did to the geth by attacking that megastcucture.
Again, a single geth telling them that everything thought about geth isn't true.... well, you saw how people regarded Shepard when the Commander tried telling them that what they thought about modern life wasn't true. It wasn't taken well. Same thing likely happened with Legion. Lack of proof, this. Manipulating us, that. No reason to trust it, ect. You get the idea.
According to Javik, turians were regarded as delecasies. He even says that they fired them. They did the same to the salariasn, asari, quarians. Possibly the hanar and elcor as well. So they aren't devoid of nutriant. The only reason they are so bad off now is because they have been seperated from the symbiotic flora of Rannoch. Javik also tells you.... many reasons why quarians were better to the protheans, as he also seems to heavily imply that quarians and asari were kept by high-ranking protheans as pleasure slaves. Quarians were appainently the favorate, because they had similar body structure (same number of fingers and toes), but maintained asari-level atractiveness. (You hear Javik tell Liara that quarians were prised among the protheans for their exotic attractiveness, and that many favored them over the asari. NOTE: You ONLY get this diolouge if Tali died in ME2, and isn't around to speak with Javik. He also hints in the ME3: Citadel DLC that he himslef may have had more then a few quarians and asari indentured to him).
Okay, back on track, now that you have those images haunting your nightmares. The quarian fleet is needed for logistcis, troop transport, supply running, and Crucible construction. Geth ships are not built for organic need, so they cannon evacuate colonies under siege, they cannon run large quantities of organic supplies, and they are not adept as salvaging resorces, and cost/resource-conservitive thinking. As evidenced by the geth's lofty tastes in equipment, such as the expensive ultra-viloet GARDIAN laser banks for their fleet. More powerful, but thrice as expensive, and they burn out twice as fast. So no, one isn't better then the other. Lose the quarians and you lose the supply and evacuation lines to supprt the front line. Lose the geth, and you lose the bulk and firepower to maintain the front line.
It wasn't prejudice then, and it wasn't now. They panicked because they thought that if the geth didn't rise up on them, the Council would drop the hammer on their heads for having created an A.I. race in the first place. The geth would be dead and the quarians would be miserable for years to come under fines, lawsuits, and even possible censorship. It's ironic that they ended up in a worse position then the one they feared the Council would put them in. Desperation made them panic and attack the geth. Same as it did now. Also, do you remember Gerrel saying "then we need a world to shelter our noncombatants while we do it." The thought - the fear - that their entire race would die in space without a homeworld to shelter on, to secure their future on, was the thing that drove them into marching into a war they didn't really desire. Not because they wanted to, but because they flet like there was no other choice but death. So then, in their position, you would either doom the entire race to death, or bog down everyone else with all the civilians you are carrying into the front lines? How is that logical at all?
Modifié par silverexile17s, 06 avril 2013 - 08:58 .
Wait, - My god did you actually compare the Quarians to the Third Reich? Goodwins Law has been invoked, abandon thread. No more logical conversation can be obtained here..
They arn't made the same as humans, how can they be alive? After all that's the argument people use when they say the Geth arn't alive. They arn't flesh and blood like us, not in the same way.
Oh, DEAR GOD, your kidding. The GETH are living beings, right. Surly you think that much? They are synthetc beings, and yet THEY are alive. How can you say that the quarians AREN'T alive, just because they are dextro-based? It doens't MATTER how they were formed, they are ALL living beings. That should be fundimental, here!!!
Wait, - My god did you actually compare the Quarians to the Third Reich? Goodwins Law has been invoked, abandon thread. No more logical conversation can be obtained here..
The Quarians goal is (unfortunately) the destruction or enslavement of all Geth. The only justification anyone can have is to claim they arn't truly alive or equal in value or rights. Any such claims would fall under that classification.
There are some who claims the Naz or still regarded jews as people, initialy they regarded them as a subspecies a lower type of humans, eventualy they saw them as little more than beasts as they started loosing the war and decided to at least get their revenge on the jews whom they blamed for their loss.
I'm not found of the comparison but it's hard to find other people who wanted to erradicate a who sentient speiceis or race.. Maybe the serb warcriminals, or bosnian albanian muslims who retaliated by killing serb civilians....
The Quarians did want to eradicate the Geth, and we all know they didn't want a peaceful solution or at least they didn't belive in one because their convictions and inbreed hatred was too strong. Every Quarian born were told to hate the Geth.
And yes both sides did a lot of bad things by the end of the day, but it was always the Quarians who started it and forced the Geth to fight back.
What the hell are you talking about? The quarians only goal was reclaiming Rannoch. The geth were blocking that path, and because the quarians had no indication that the geth would negotiate, they assumed hostilities.
Oh, GOD, WHY are you bringing Godwin's Law into all this? You know nothing ever comes of trying to invoke such things. Hate was NOT the motivation for quarian attack. Getting a world to survive the Reapers, and secure a future on, was the motivation. Eradication of the geth was seen as the only way because no one that ever went into the Veil to try negotiating ever lived to tell about it. Also, that is NOT true. On the Alerei, Tali tells you that the Reason the quarians never tried once in 300 years to reclaim Rannoch before now is because they are remorseful that they panicked and tried to kill the geth. (Alerei: Conversation with Tali at the wall console. Say "That's a bad idea," then select "So take it back." You will get this conversation. Hard to find on youtube. Amazing how many people metagame-spam the upper diolouge options). So NO, quarian hate for the geth is NOT inbread.
And AGAIN, quarians acted in desperation just as the geth did. Both's motivations were from the same source.
The Codex Entry "Mass Relays" for ME3. It states that the Reapers use the Mass Relays with impunity to get around, and the Codex entry "Desperate Measures" talks about blowing the Relays to delay Reaper invasion. There is your proof. And also, Engineer Adams told you on the Normandy SR-1 that going to FTL is like lighting off a flare to anyone around you. Impossible to miss on sensors. So YES, the quarians would be unable to miss a Reaper Destroyer.
Also, did you actually forget the Normandy is a Stealth Ship??. One that Cerberus upgraded to be able to fly at FTL without disengaging the Stealth drive - a feature the Reapers never bothered to get, given how they are detected so damn easily when they enter a system. Honestly, this is stuff that anyone reading the lore would know about.
None of this answers the question Silver. I said provide proof that a ship can see another ship while in a Mass Relay? You are bending time and space and converting a ship into a massless object to propel it through space and time at speeds far exceeding the speed of light. So I see no evidence that the Quarians or anyone else would be able to see a Reaper as it is in the Mass Relay. Entering a mass relay is essentially entering a place that is outside time and space.
Second the Normandy being a stealth ship is irrelevant. We are talking about the path you have to take to reach the Perseus Veil. That path does not change depending on if you are a stealth ship or not. In the below link nothing says you have to go through the Far Rim in order to get to the Perseus Veil.
Look I don't want speculation, I want definitive evidence as to why you think if a war is being waged in the Far Rim that the Reapers have to go through the Far Rim to get to Rannoch. The Perseus Veil is it's own cluster with it's own Mass Relay. I can get to it via the Mass Relay and don't have to stop in the Far Rim to say high to the Geth and Quarians.
YES it DOES. You can see the ship on sensors. Actual phsycial sight is NOT used in the game - sensors are. Also, it's made clear that ships can be detected in the mass relay "corridors," because All relays have a fixed path, so any movement along that path can be tracked and recorded, because they know where to look. You are able to track the movement of a Ship in Relay Transit because the Mass Relay corridor instantly blue-shifts the ship emmitions, and propells it like a bullet. All you have to do is follow the "smoke trail."
And the Normandy does so because it's a setalth ship and can get past the other geth systems and striaght to the Tikkun relay without being caught. And AGAIN, you are metagaming by assuming that the one relay shown on the galaxy map is the only relay in that system. There are supposed to be a dozen relays in geosincronus orbit around the Citadel, but I never see more then one on the galaxy map, do I? There are supposed to be six relays in Eden Prime's Utopia System, but you only see one. The system map is metagamed. On the galaxy map itself, you see one system taking you to multiple surrounding ones, despite supposedly all relays being two-way corridors. In other words, more then one relay in those systems. Primary and Secondarys. The Far Rim holds the Primary path to the Tikkun system, which was blocked off by geth armadas. They had to go the long way. And if you look at the galaxy map, there ISN'T any connecting "line" between the Veil and any other ststem but the Far Rim. To get to the Hades Nexus, you have to jump through the Far Rim and and then bounce off another relay.
Again, YOU have failed to provied supproting evidence of your claim.
YES it DOES. You can see the ship on sensors. Actual phsycial sight is NOT used in the game - sensors are. Also, it's made clear that ships can be detected in the mass relay "corridors," because All relays have a fixed path, so any movement along that path can be tracked and recorded, because they know where to look. You are able to track the movement of a Ship in Relay Transit because the Mass Relay corridor instantly blue-shifts the ship emmitions, and propells it like a bullet. All you have to do is follow the "smoke trail."
And the Normandy does so because it's a setalth ship and can get past the other geth systems and striaght to the Tikkun relay without being caught. And AGAIN, you are metagaming by assuming that the one relay shown on the galaxy map is the only relay in that system. There are supposed to be a dozen relays in geosincronus orbit around the Citadel, but I never see more then one on the galaxy map, do I? There are supposed to be six relays in Eden Prime's Utopia System, but you only see one. The system map is metagamed. On the galaxy map itself, you see one system taking you to multiple surrounding ones, despite supposedly all relays being two-way corridors. In other words, more then one relay in those systems. Primary and Secondarys. The Far Rim holds the Primary path to the Tikkun system, which was blocked off by geth armadas. They had to go the long way. And if you look at the galaxy map, there ISN'T any connecting "line" between the Veil and any other ststem but the Far Rim. To get to the Hades Nexus, you have to jump through the Far Rim and and then bounce off another relay.
Again, YOU have failed to provied supproting evidence of your claim.
The Quarians start in the Far Rim. The Reapers enter a relay from another sytem. All that will happen as far as I am aware is the Reapers will simply bounce from relay to relay until it gets to the Perseus Veil. I see no evidence it has to exit the relay at the Far Rim and then re-enter it to continue it's journey. I see no evidence the Quarians have any ability to stop the Reaper if it's final destination is the Perseus Veil and not the Far Rim where they are at the start of the War.
So how exactly are you proposing the Quarians prevent the Reaper from getting to the Perseus Veil? Let's make sure we are clear on info from the game and your speculation. The Geth have no ability as far as I am aware to prevent someone from actually getting to the Perseus Veil. It was simply suicide if you did because a Geth Armada was likely stationed there waiting. There is no Quarian Armada at the Perseus Veil to start the War because they start in the Far Rim.
So the point is I see no evidence you can do anything to a ship while it is traversing the mass relay. You can wait on it to exit but as long as it is within the relay network you can't shoot it down.
silverexile17s wrote... No, they DIDN'T. Legion is isolated from the consensis. He was acting completely indipendant.And when Legion did return to the Veil, he NEVER RETURNED ANY OF TALI'S COMMS AFTER THAT.
Tali tells you Legion returned to geth space immediately, she and Legion traded some messageses for a while she brought up the possibilities to the Admiralty but they voted agaisnt a diplomatic settlement.
In game video of that conversation should be proof enough. I would say you are trolling but it's possible you treated Legion badly and took Tali's side in every conflict resulting in a Legion that didn't want to talk. Which it is Ican't tell, sounds like you are trolling though.
silverexile17s wrote... Also, Legion.... never physically was there, actually. He spoke with Tali and the Admirals via wireless communication. He didn't trust the Admirals either. Most likely, he didn't trust that Xen wouldn't disect him before he could speak, or that Gerrel wouldn't hold him as a POW if things went south. The quarians DID look at the option, but it was outvoted. Gerrel saw little to no reason to take Legion's word. Xen didn't see the geth having any right to live as equal to their "masters." Raan didn't believe any form of peace could be possible with all the bad blood between the two factions.
You must be trolling... First he wasn't returning calls after returning home immediately then all of a sudden he was communicating via wireless communication? Also the distrust you suspect Legion to have does seem reasonable, the only thing that stops the Quarians from doing such a thing to Legion is the fact that Legion is either under Shepards protection or protected onboard a humanship which works as a neutral party in the Geth/Quarian conflict. Wireless communication is a good first step to establish a line of communication, if the admirals really wanted to talk and showed serious interest then it might have been possible for them to arrange something. What's important to note is that the Admirals didnt want to talk. Legion said they would talk if the Quarians showed them they were interested in doing so, and that it was in the best interest of the Quarian people to do so.
Or as Legion would have said;
silverexile17s wrote...
shodiswe wrote...
silverexile17s wrote...
remydat wrote...
silverexile17s wrote...
Because the relays have no user restrictions like the Citadel, for one? Because it's stated in the Codex that the Reapers are as dependant on relay traval as the rest of the galaxy, for another? Because the only path to the Perseus Veil is occupied by said 50,000 ships and and the Reaper would have to get past them, maybe? And the quarians are experts at logistics, and the Patrol fleet is almost all scouting ships with advanced sensor suites. So YES, they WOULD be able to see the Reaper overtake them.
Can you provide a link that says ships can see each other as they travel the mass relays? Do you think I can look out the window and see an object travel faster than the speed of light as it zips by me?
Also, when the Normandy travels to the Perseus Veil, does it have to go through the Far Rim? Not in front of my game so can't verify this.
The Codex Entry "Mass Relays" for ME3. It states that the Reapers use the Mass Relays with impunity to get around, and the Codex entry "Desperate Measures" talks about blowing the Relays to delay Reaper invasion. There is your proof. And also, Engineer Adams told you on the Normandy SR-1 that going to FTL is like lighting off a flare to anyone around you. Impossible to miss on sensors. So YES, the quarians would be unable to miss a Reaper Destroyer.
Also, did you actually forget the Normandy is a Stealth Ship??. One that Cerberus upgraded to be able to fly at FTL without disengaging the Stealth drive - a feature the Reapers never bothered to get, given how they are detected so damn easily when they enter a system. Honestly, this is stuff that anyone reading the lore would know about.
The FTL flare is from the shipboard FTL engines that are used when traveling between stars in a starcluster... Without the use of a relay... Which is the origin of FTL flares. Blowing up relays would only create a short delay for the reapers as proven by the Arrival DLC.
The type of engines that the fleet around earth used to escape from the crusible blast.
There seems to be a lot of errors in your comments, secondly even if they used their reaper FTL drives at soem point it would be impossible for the Quarians to identify what type of ship it was that used FTL unless they spot it before they activate FTL. They wouldn't know if it's Geth Quarian, volus or human. They would however know that something was there. And assuming they keep track of their own ships then they woudl have to assume it wasn't Quarian.
No. That's incorrect. Engineer Adams tells you in ME1 that going to FTL blue-shifts emmisions, making the ship easy to detect. FTL is used for travel between systems. (NOT culsters, as that requires Relay-based traval. FTL is the conventonal travel between systems that uses fuel to acomplish.) FTL "flares" are the short bursts that come from Relay traval. Conventonal FTL is a "burn" effect that leaves a visable trail, and allows one to track the ship itself.
The type of engines the fleet uses to escape the Crucible are no different - you can track them by following the FTL trail, or homing on the "Burn" of the ship engines.
So NO. Only your self-perceved errors. Also, Reapers have signifigantly improved drives, with a higher output then standard ships. Their more advanced technology makes them easy to pick out among enemy ships. Besides, ANY ship going into the Veil that isn't regesterd as part of their fleet would still draw attention. So getting detected would still draw the fleet on it.
I did say FTL is used within clusters, apparetly the Reapers can use it to travel much longer distances than that though and at twice the FTL speed. It's interesting how many times Shepard has been using relays and FTL's in enemy systems and managed to stay undetected. There might be a flare but identifying it is a different story, ships like the Normandy are harder to detect and identify but not impossible when the flare is noticed. The Flare is a temporary anomaly thoguh and unless you track it to the source it will be hard to identify the ship. Reaper ships could possibly harder to detect since it doesn't seem like they care about being discrete about their comming and goings. Futher more the Reapers are aware of all relays in the network, the allied forces or the Quarians arn't. They might very well have back doors to certain areas which would explain how they seem to be everywhere. Just because a or a few reaper ships might be roaming the Veil doesn't meen the Geth invited them, the Reapers go where ever they like. I'm pretty sure the Reapers wether they came to that sector of space earlier or during or later told the Geth about the Quarians plans, the the Quarians confirmed the Reapers claims and insane beliefs about unavoidable synthetic/organic conflict and offered their help with a "solution". But yet again most non-quest systems will have Sovereign class dreadnaughts close in on you if you use your scanner.
And it seem we agree that the Geth didn't accept the deal until almost seventeen days after the slaughter had started, that's pretty resilient of the Geth tbh. I'm pretty sure Udina would have been pretty fast at accepting a deal that would avenge humanity if the Turians had done to Humanity what the Quarians did to the Geth.
The Geth can't make a peace on their own the Quarians have to show some interest in peace for any such atempts to work. I bought Legion to Koris in ME2 so he would have known it was up to the Quarians, and Tali told the Admiralty as much, but they voted no to peace.
Also people keep saying the Quarians are alive but I can't eat their food they might aswell be made of plastic for all I know. Dextros arn't humans or even close to us.. Trying to eat a Quarian would provide no nutrient value what so ever... It would be like eating plastic bags which woudl cause digestion problems and possibly an alergic reaction. What use do we have of Dextros? We can't eat their food their flora and fauna are worthless to us unless we try to turn it into some kind of engine oil or something... lubricants or some kind of biofuel. We have no use for them none what so ever! (Kind of going by what Tali said about synthetics and it would fit thier people just as well.) Tbh they arn't more useful to anyone else than the Geth would be, fact is most people in the galaxy seem to think Quarians are more trouble than they are worth.
The Quarians really needs to get of their high horses, because their prejudice is what almost ended up makign their species go extinct 300 years ago and now they are repeating the same misstake again for the same stupid reasons. If they truly had learned from their misstakes then they would have tried a different approach. My Shepard even told them not to go to war, and the Quarians knew the Reapers were coming, they had intel of their own telling them this. But they still didn't care they were still to selfimportant and busy playing highwaymen and executing a strategy similar to that of the third reich.. Then, when things wen't poorly for them the second time they tried to genocide the geth, they asked the galaxy for help again.
Great!
WRONG. If anything, you seem to be trolling the quarians in general. Also, the fact that Legion had to be physically recalled to the Consensis is more proof. Legion tells you that he is an advanced unit, his networked architecture too complex even for Reaper control. If he "dies" on the Collector Base, there is no back-up with enough space to handle his memory and programs. Also, Legion had to physically return to geth space to present his "proof" of the Reaper's imminate return. If he really was a part of the Consensis full-time, he wouldn't have needed to physically return to the geth to provide his proof. He would have used wireless transfer. I think that you aren't looking at any of the points before responding, since you have confused Legion returning to geth space, with Legion re-joining the Consensis. After all, Legion tells you that he was spicifically built to NOT need to be connected to the Consensis 24/7, so that he could last in deep recon beyond the Veil. That's why they made him a "miniturized server" - a walking town of geth programs, that eventually merge to form a single person. He was spicifically made to be independant.
AGAIN, WRONG. Legion went to geth space. Then was in wireless contact with Tali and the Admirals. Then, Tali informs you that the Consensis called for him because they were in some form of chaos. If you are talking about Tali's loyalty mission, most of the people there seem to think Legion is a hacked mech (Tali tells the quarian shuttle guard that it"s "under our control."). If you mean Xen, yes, she would likely have tried disecting it imeediately. Gerrel doesn't even seem to acknowlede Legion's presance, but he may not know Legion is a real geth. After all, Xen herself initially assumed Legion was an empty "geth shell" over a mech. And yes, you ARE right on Legion taking understandible precautions. Which I'm sure had something to do with what he knew/witnessed on the Alerei. But again, Gerrel saw no reason to trust Legion at face value. After all, did you believe the Illusive Man's word when he said Controling the Reapers was possible? It's telling you the exact opposate of everything you think. And the ironic thing is, what TIM says ends up being true, meaning that Shepard did to TIM what the quarians did to the geth. Only difference is, TIM was a ruthless bastard. And indoctrinated. The point being, if someone came up and told you that everything you know about the people that attacked everyone is wrong, and do so with no physical proof or deed to back it up, are you going to believe them. Xen, well... She views the geth the same way TIM views the Reapers. The two are almost counterparts: Ruthless, sociopathic, ambitious, desiring nothing more then seeing their race at the top of the pecking order. Their personalities are almost carbon-copyed. So, her vote was always going to be obvious. Raan never saw anything that could prove the geth and quarian could co-habitate. She figured that there was too many wounds, and too much bad blood on both sides for peace to work. You can't expect the Admirals to gamble 17 million on the word of a single geth. It's asking a bit much to say the least.
It would still be picked up. The quarians could have seen it coming a mile away in that case. Also, intersystem traval is easier to pick up. There are three forms of movement. Navagation thrutsers - the movent between planets in a system. Impossible to detect conventional thrusters on avarage unless actively looking. FTL - travel between systems in a cluster. Blue-shifted emmisions give away the ships position and speed like lighting a flare and running with it. FTL Jump - Mass Relay use. Same as above. And if anything, not caring about being discreat would make it easier to detect them. The galaxy had tabs on them wherever they went. Yet were still losing forces to them. Why else do you think so many felt so desperate? It wasn't that they hit to fast. It's that even when they knew the when and where, they still got K.O.d in many engagements. And again, wrong. All relays are connected to the centeral netwrok of the Citadel. They know were the Relays are, but never used them for fear of another Rachni Wars. However, as far as I can tell, there is only on surefire path into the Perseus Veil, and the quarians took it.
Also, it was a single Reaper destroyer. The quarians salvaged tugs destroyed, so I find it hard to believe that the entire geth war fleet - completely intact, being pre-war- would have any trouble with the single Destroyer the Reapers sent. That Destroyer came to them despite being able to be destroyed at a moments notice. The geth didn't destroy it despite having the power to do so. Hence, they invited it in. Also that's not true. I saw no Reapers in the Ismar Frontier. Or the Far Rim. And it's elaborated very on that the Reapers simply forced their way in through all the relays. Also, it only gives credidance that the Reapers played the table to their advantage. The more time the geth spent worrying about possible quarian attack, the less time they would spend debating on whether to fight the Reapers themselves. It's ironic. The Reapers panic the quarians into trying to get thein world back, and then the Reapers panic the geth by telling them the quarians have panicked.
Yes, the geth didn't take up the offer until there was no longer any place to retreat to. They had pulled back all geth from the outlying systems, saving the majoriyty of programs in geth space by consolidating them on Rannoch. However, a good deal of the stations and physical bodies were scrapped by the quarian's inavsion. Saving programs is only a partial victory if there isn't any bodies to put them in, meaning they are out of the fight. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that 15% of geth in the galaxy died in the Quarians mad dash through the Perseus Veil. That number increases by 7% if you killed the Heretics, and even more since the geth processing power is less then it would be without them. In other words, if you saved the Hereicts, at least 10-15% of the geth die. If you killed the Heretics, then what is likely 25-30% of the geth die. The crippling blow was the megastructure attack. The loss of geth life was not actually extreme in that (several thousand. Not extreme since the majority of the billions of geth programs were on Rannoch), but the attack fractured geth communication. All geth were severed from their main consensis. They were fractured. Unable to connect to each-other to form consensis of any real sort. All geth in the galaxy were suddenly segregated and seperate from each-other. All geth were suddenly alone in their shells with no contact to any other geth. They panicked and collectively, the vast majority of geth couldn't bear living without consensis - without each-other - and finally took the Reapers up on their offer. Even more ironic is that the Quarians may never have actually realized what they did to the geth by attacking that megastcucture.
Again, a single geth telling them that everything thought about geth isn't true.... well, you saw how people regarded Shepard when the Commander tried telling them that what they thought about modern life wasn't true. It wasn't taken well. Same thing likely happened with Legion. Lack of proof, this. Manipulating us, that. No reason to trust it, ect. You get the idea.
According to Javik, turians were regarded as delecasies. He even says that they fired them. They did the same to the salariasn, asari, quarians. Possibly the hanar and elcor as well. So they aren't devoid of nutriant. The only reason they are so bad off now is because they have been seperated from the symbiotic flora of Rannoch. Javik also tells you.... many reasons why quarians were better to the protheans, as he also seems to heavily imply that quarians and asari were kept by high-ranking protheans as pleasure slaves. Quarians were appainently the favorate, because they had similar body structure (same number of fingers and toes), but maintained asari-level atractiveness. (You hear Javik tell Liara that quarians were prised among the protheans for their exotic attractiveness, and that many favored them over the asari. NOTE: You ONLY get this diolouge if Tali died in ME2, and isn't around to speak with Javik. He also hints in the ME3: Citadel DLC that he himslef may have had more then a few quarians and asari indentured to him).
Okay, back on track, now that you have those images haunting your nightmares. The quarian fleet is needed for logistcis, troop transport, supply running, and Crucible construction. Geth ships are not built for organic need, so they cannon evacuate colonies under siege, they cannon run large quantities of organic supplies, and they are not adept as salvaging resorces, and cost/resource-conservitive thinking. As evidenced by the geth's lofty tastes in equipment, such as the expensive ultra-viloet GARDIAN laser banks for their fleet. More powerful, but thrice as expensive, and they burn out twice as fast. So no, one isn't better then the other. Lose the quarians and you lose the supply and evacuation lines to supprt the front line. Lose the geth, and you lose the bulk and firepower to maintain the front line.
It wasn't prejudice then, and it wasn't now. They panicked because they thought that if the geth didn't rise up on them, the Council would drop the hammer on their heads for having created an A.I. race in the first place. The geth would be dead and the quarians would be miserable for years to come under fines, lawsuits, and even possible censorship. It's ironic that they ended up in a worse position then the one they feared the Council would put them in. Desperation made them panic and attack the geth. Same as it did now. Also, do you remember Gerrel saying "then we need a world to shelter our noncombatants while we do it." The thought - the fear - that their entire race would die in space without a homeworld to shelter on, to secure their future on, was the thing that drove them into marching into a war they didn't really desire. Not because they wanted to, but because they flet like there was no other choice but death. So then, in their position, you would either doom the entire race to death, or bog down everyone else with all the civilians you are carrying into the front lines? How is that logical at all?
Creating more war really doesn't help. It sounds like youre still saying it was smart of the Quarians to start a war. You are also throwing out a lot of assumptions on numbers that are nothing but guesses. Legion was back with his people when he was communicating with Tali over the extranet. Legion was still availabe to Tali when she proposed peace talks that were voted down by the other admirals. They never took the chance. Then as things got tense communication ceased. If that was after or before the Quarian attack isn't clear, it sounds like Tali thought they had become enemies or that Legion was busy working against the reaper takeover. Or maybe the geth got as paranoid as the Quarians and shackled him. Maybe the reapers told the geth that Legion was a traitor that was conspiring with the Quarians, and they belived them, at the very least by banning further communication. In the end we find Legion shackled. What i'm saying is the Quarians didnt try to make peace, not even once in 300 years. If the council sent a shuttle with a or a few diplomats then it went badly after the synthetic massacre the council performed at the end of the MW. Then you were talking about Javic, we all know the Proteans were imperialistic slavers, there isnt much more to that. Their fear of the council should have been secondary long before they got wiped out. There were several atempts to negotiate back then but there was no talking to the military. It's late for me so good night. I'm not going to comment the rest of your fanfiction or headcannon tonight.
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