4712 réponses à ce sujet

[silverexile17s]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Let's look at some factors with the quarians.

- Gerrel is inclined towards war and domination.
- Xen wants to brainwash the geth to have her own personal army.
- Gerrel and Xen see eye to eye on a lot of things.
- With the guns strapped to liveships, the quarians have more military force than even the turians.

Let's say that Xen did, in fact, brainwash the geth. Considering all of the above, do you think they'd continue to exist happily ever after? No, Gerrel would find someone else to have a hate fetish for. It's his nature. It's actually in the best interests of the Universe that the geth remain alive and free, as they're a good foil to the quarians.

I don't think many people actually realise and understand how much of a military threat the quarians are. I mean, if they did possess the geth, how long until they decided that they didn't like the elcor, or the volus, or even the turians or the asari?

All of the evidence of quarians thus far has suggested a highly warlike civilisation. Any attempts to broker a peace with the quarians have failed. It's only the threat of absolute extinction that has the quarians stand down.

The quarians aren't as magnanimous as many seem to think. Either that, or Gerrel and Xen were absolute angels somehow in the playthroughs of some people.

I'm actually thankful to the geth. Since the quarians have some mildly Aryan elements to their culture that bother me, and I think that there'd be another massive war right now were it not for the geth. Just sayin'.

AGAIN, WRONG.
Gerrel stands down completely if he learns the geth will not fire back. Completely invalidates your accusation. He only ever went to war because he believed the geth didn't want peace. NOT because he didn't want it himself. The fact that he will stand down completely disproves you.
Gerrel and Xen see eye to eye on NOTHING. Gerrel sees an enemy. Xen doesn't. Xen only backed the invasion to test her weapons. Gerrel backed it to save his people.
If Xen is the geth expert instead of Tali on the Dreadnought, she even tells you that she herself didn't want open war, and would have preferred a more delicate approch to victory. She says the only reason she argeed to it was because she preferred getting Rannoch back, rather then "Raan's bloodless caution, or  Koris's geth sympathies."

Gerrel NEVER had a "hate fetish." He attacked soley because he never thought the geth would be willing to negotiate. After all, 300 years of the Council trying never amounted to anything except the death of everyone that tried, and the Attican Traverse and Citadel being lit up by geth fleets. You are trying as hard as yoy can to headcannon problems that aren't there.

Again, military power is NOT their strong point. Their ships are logistics divisions. They are wanted for the infrastructure on the war. Troop transport, supply running, colony evac, rescouce conservation, ect. And AGAIN, you are assuming that Gerrel, Koris, Tali,  and Raan would let Xen try it. Gerrel wants nothing to do with the geth, as he thinks they want nothing to do with organics. He saw firsthand what Rael'Zorah's attempts brought - Rael's death. He'd be damned before he'd ever let Xen try again. Tali and Koris in particular would never stand for the experiments, and Raan has in more intrest in expansion then Gerrel. Both just want their world back. They want NOTHING to do with military expansion. STOP trying to paint the quarians as villians.

WHAT evidence? The fact that Council policy panicked them? If anything, the quarians actions suggest a civilization that has absolutly no concept of warlike behaivior. The GETH are the ones that shot down anyone that tried to make peace. You can't blame the quarians for being skceptical of the geth wanting peace suddenly, after 300 years of killing anything and everything that tried it before. And after the geth attack on the Citadel, you think one single geth saying "all that is wrong" is going to be taken without skecptisism? Shepard sure was treated with skecptisism over the Reapers comming. As I said, one person isn't enough. The geth would have to show they openly want peace. Not just a single, isolated unit.

You continue to show blatent prejudtce by attmpting to demonize the quarians and angelize the geth.

If not for the Reapers forcing the quarians, perhaps peace could have been acheved eventually. There is NOTHING suggesting any other war would ever have happened, outside of your own, biased headcannon
Jusssayng.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 06 avril 2013 - 09:44 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

By Khorne snip your quotes people.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

YES it DOES.
You can see the ship on sensors. Actual phsycial sight is NOT used in the game - sensors are. Also, it's made clear that ships can be detected in the mass relay "corridors," because All relays have a fixed path, so any movement along that path can be tracked and recorded, because they know where to look. You are able to track the movement of a Ship in Relay Transit because the Mass Relay corridor instantly blue-shifts the ship emmitions, and propells it like a bullet. All you have to do is follow the "smoke trail."

And the Normandy does so because it's a setalth ship and can get past the other geth systems and striaght to the Tikkun relay without being caught. And AGAIN, you are metagaming by assuming that the one relay shown on the galaxy map is the only relay in that system. There are supposed to be a dozen relays in geosincronus orbit around the Citadel, but I never see more then one on the galaxy map, do I? There are supposed to be six relays in Eden Prime's Utopia System, but you only see one. The system map is metagamed. On the galaxy map itself, you see one system taking you to multiple surrounding ones, despite supposedly all relays being two-way corridors. In other words, more then one relay in those systems. Primary and Secondarys. The Far Rim holds the Primary path to the Tikkun system, which was blocked off by geth armadas. They had to go the long way. And if you look at the galaxy map, there ISN'T any connecting "line" between the Veil and any other ststem but the Far Rim. To get to the Hades Nexus, you have to jump through the Far Rim and and then bounce off another relay.

Again, YOU have failed to provied supproting evidence of your claim.

The Quarians start in the Far Rim.  The Reapers enter a relay from another sytem.  All that will happen as far as I am aware is the Reapers will simply bounce from relay to relay until it gets to the Perseus Veil.  I see no evidence it has to exit the relay at the Far Rim and then re-enter it to continue it's journey.  I see no evidence the Quarians have any ability to stop the Reaper if it's final destination is the Perseus Veil and not the Far Rim where they are at the start of the War.

So how exactly are you proposing the Quarians prevent the Reaper from getting to the Perseus Veil?  Let's make sure we are clear on info from the game and your speculation.  The Geth have no ability as far as I am aware to prevent someone from actually getting to the Perseus Veil.  It was simply suicide if you did because a Geth Armada was likely stationed there waiting.  There is no Quarian Armada at the Perseus Veil to start the War because they start in the Far Rim.

So the point is I see no evidence you can do anything to a ship while it is traversing the mass relay.  You can wait on it to exit but as long as it is within the relay network you can't shoot it down.

WRONG. There IS no other path to the Perseus Veil, otherwise the quarians would have taken it.
"bouncing" isn't it at all. There is only one primary that directly connects to the Perseus Veil, and that's in the Far Rim.

The geth have an entire fleet. Almost as many dreadnoughts as the turians do - nearly 30. Also, the point is that the Reaper would have had to been right behind the Migrnat Fleet, and could not have overtakin them without being spotted. The quarians would have seen it. Also, by trainlin the Migrant fleet all the way, it would mean the Reaper would have gotten to Rannoch, got settled into a Reaper constructed base, had Legion hooked into the Dreadnough, and been ready to go in a single day, and done so without the Migrnat Fleet ever seeing it. Not really possible.

The simple point is that you know where it is, and where to wait for it in the "corridor."

[silverexile17s]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@shodiswe

Good job illuminating some of the more... extreme and mentally disturbed ideologies, here. Myself? Man of peace, and someone who dislikes xenophobia. Frankly, I wish more people were like me and less crazy.

That;s rich. You are THE most prejudice, xenophobic, equality-ahting person I've seen. And FIY, @Shodiswe has done nothing to support any of what you claim.

[silverexile17s]

shodiswe wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

Also interesting is how geth supporters acknowledge the problems of the geth, but quarians are apparently Aryan Perfection. I keep noticing this. It's fascinating. And terrifying.

Denial and projection of blame is the best defence when caught with your hand in the cookiejar! (Because there isn't a justifiable explanation) Every five years old knows that.

And yet, you have to invent the proof, or doctor the photo to prove your point. That's not helpful to your point.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

WRONG. There IS no other path to the Perseus Veil, otherwise the quarians would have taken it.
"bouncing" isn't it at all. There is only one primary that directly connects to the Perseus Veil, and that's in the Far Rim.

The geth have an entire fleet. Almost as many dreadnoughts as the turians do - nearly 30. Also, the point is that the Reaper would have had to been right behind the Migrnat Fleet, and could not have overtakin them without being spotted. The quarians would have seen it. Also, by trainlin the Migrant fleet all the way, it would mean the Reaper would have gotten to Rannoch, got settled into a Reaper constructed base, had Legion hooked into the Dreadnough, and been ready to go in a single day, and done so without the Migrnat Fleet ever seeing it. Not really possible.

The simple point is that you know where it is, and where to wait for it in the "corridor."

I asked for game evidence.  I have never seen anyone in the game say that while they are in the Mass Relay they can see and fire weapons at someone else in the relay.  Please find me an example of a firefight occuring in the Mass Relay itself.  I have seen fights after someone exists a mass relay but not while someone is actually in it.  I don't think the game ever tells us what people experience and can do will within the mass relay itself. 

And you still miss the point.  If the Reaper never exits the Mass Relay, how are the quarians going to know who is travelling within it?  Again see above, the game never suggests anyone can see what is going on in the Mass Relay from the outside.  You can track perhaps that something has entered and exited from different relays but where are you getting the evidence you can identify who is in a mass relay at a given time or actually see them?  The corridor is not some highway rest stop.  It is a bending of space time.  Most likely the reason why the Flotilla takes longer is because it has more mass.  So the mass relay takes more time to convert all that mass into a mass free object.  A single Reaper ship has less mass so converting it takes less time.  But you can't actually see each other in the Mass Relay as this process takes place.  Now again, if I missed where this was suggested provide a link but the Mass Relay is essentially a wormhole that connects two points in space.

Mass relays function by creating a virtually mass-free "corridor" of space-time between each other

http://masseffect.wi...iki/Mass_relays

[silverexile17s]

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
No, they DIDN'T. Legion is isolated from the consensis. He was acting completely indipendant.And when Legion did return to the Veil, he NEVER RETURNED ANY OF TALI'S COMMS AFTER THAT.

Tali tells you Legion returned to geth space immediately, she and Legion traded some messageses for a while she brought up the possibilities to the Admiralty but they voted agaisnt a diplomatic settlement.




In game video of that conversation should be proof enough. I would say you are trolling but it's possible you treated Legion badly and took Tali's side in every conflict resulting in a Legion that didn't want to talk. Which it is  Ican't tell, sounds like you are trolling though.

silverexile17s wrote...
Also, Legion.... never physically was there, actually. He spoke with Tali and the Admirals via wireless communication. He didn't trust the Admirals either. Most likely, he didn't trust that Xen wouldn't disect him before he could speak, or that Gerrel wouldn't hold him as a POW if things went south.
The quarians DID look at the option, but it was outvoted. Gerrel saw little to no reason to take Legion's word. Xen didn't see the geth having any right to live as equal to their "masters." Raan didn't believe any form of peace could be possible with all the bad blood between the two factions.

You must be trolling... First he wasn't returning calls after returning home immediately then all of a sudden he was communicating via wireless communication?  
Also the distrust you suspect Legion to have does seem reasonable, the only thing that stops the Quarians from doing such a thing to Legion is the fact that Legion is either under Shepards protection or protected onboard a humanship which works as a neutral party in the Geth/Quarian conflict.
Wireless communication is a good first step to establish a line of communication, if the admirals really wanted to talk and showed serious interest then it might have been possible for them to arrange something.
What's important to note is that the Admirals didnt want to talk.
Legion said they would talk if the Quarians showed them they were interested in doing so, and that it was in the best interest of the Quarian people to do so.

Or as Legion would have said;

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Because the relays have no user restrictions like the Citadel, for one? Because it's stated in the Codex that the Reapers are as dependant on relay traval as the rest of the galaxy, for another? Because the only path to the Perseus Veil is occupied by said 50,000 ships and and the Reaper would have to get past them, maybe?
And the quarians are experts at logistics, and the Patrol fleet is almost all scouting ships with advanced sensor suites. So YES, they WOULD be able to see the Reaper overtake them.

Can you provide a link that says ships can see each other as they travel the mass relays?  Do you think I can look out the window and see an object travel faster than the speed of light as it zips by me?

Also, when the Normandy travels to the Perseus Veil, does it have to go through the Far Rim?  Not in front of my game so can't verify this.

The Codex Entry "Mass Relays" for ME3. It states that the Reapers use the Mass Relays with impunity to get around, and the Codex entry "Desperate Measures" talks about blowing the Relays to delay Reaper invasion. There is your proof.
And also, Engineer Adams told you on the Normandy SR-1 that going to FTL is like lighting off a flare to anyone around you. Impossible to miss on sensors. So YES, the quarians would be unable to miss a Reaper Destroyer.

Also, did you actually forget the Normandy is a Stealth Ship??. One that Cerberus upgraded to be able to fly at FTL without disengaging the Stealth drive - a feature the Reapers never bothered to get, given how they are detected so damn easily when they enter a system.
Honestly, this is stuff that anyone reading the lore would know about.

The FTL flare is from the shipboard FTL engines that are used when traveling between stars in a starcluster... Without the use of a relay... Which is the origin of FTL flares.
Blowing up relays would only create a short delay for the reapers as proven by the Arrival DLC.

The type of engines that the fleet around earth used to escape from the crusible blast.

There seems to be a lot of errors in your comments, secondly even if they used their reaper FTL drives at soem point it would be impossible for the Quarians to identify what type of ship it was that used FTL unless they spot it before they activate FTL.
They wouldn't know if it's Geth Quarian, volus or human. They would however know that something was there. And assuming they keep track of their own ships then they woudl have to assume it wasn't Quarian.

No. That's incorrect. Engineer Adams tells you in ME1 that going to FTL blue-shifts emmisions, making the ship easy to detect. FTL is used for travel between systems. (NOT culsters, as that requires Relay-based traval. FTL is the conventonal travel between systems that uses fuel to acomplish.) FTL "flares" are the short bursts that come from Relay traval. Conventonal FTL is a "burn" effect that leaves a visable trail, and allows one to track the ship itself.

The type of engines the fleet uses to escape the Crucible are no different - you can track them by following the FTL trail, or homing on the "Burn" of the ship engines.

So NO. Only your self-perceved errors.  Also, Reapers have signifigantly improved drives, with a higher output then standard ships. Their more advanced technology makes them easy to pick out among enemy ships. Besides, ANY ship going into the Veil that isn't regesterd as part of their fleet would still draw attention. So getting detected would still draw the fleet on it.

I did say FTL is used within clusters, apparetly the Reapers can use it to travel much longer distances than that though and at twice the FTL speed.
It's interesting how many times Shepard has been using relays and FTL's in enemy systems and managed to stay undetected.
There might be a flare but identifying it is a different story, ships like the Normandy are harder to detect and identify but not impossible when the flare is noticed. The Flare is a temporary anomaly thoguh and unless you track it to the source it will be hard to identify the ship.
Reaper ships could possibly harder to detect since it doesn't seem like they care about being discrete about their comming and goings.
Futher more the Reapers are aware of all relays in the network, the allied forces or the Quarians arn't.
They might very well have back doors to certain areas which would explain how they seem to be everywhere.
Just because a or a few reaper ships might be roaming the Veil doesn't meen the Geth invited them, the Reapers go where ever they like.
I'm pretty sure the Reapers wether they came to that sector of space earlier or during or later told the Geth about the Quarians plans, the the Quarians confirmed the Reapers claims and insane beliefs about unavoidable synthetic/organic conflict and offered their help with a "solution".
But yet again most non-quest systems will have Sovereign class dreadnaughts close in on you if you use your scanner.

And it seem we agree that the Geth didn't accept the deal until almost seventeen days after the slaughter had started, that's pretty resilient of the Geth tbh. I'm pretty sure Udina would have been pretty fast at accepting a deal that would avenge humanity if the Turians had done to Humanity what the Quarians did to the Geth.

The Geth can't make a peace on their own the Quarians have to show some interest in peace for any such atempts to work.
I bought Legion to Koris in ME2 so he would have known it was up to the Quarians, and Tali told the Admiralty as much, but they voted no to peace.

Also people keep saying the Quarians are alive but I can't eat their food they might aswell be made of plastic for all I know. Dextros arn't humans or even close to us..
Trying to eat a Quarian would provide no nutrient value what so ever... It would be like eating plastic bags which woudl cause digestion problems and possibly an alergic reaction. What use do we have of Dextros? We can't eat their food their flora and fauna are worthless to us unless we try to turn it into some kind of engine oil or something... lubricants or some kind of biofuel. We have no use for them none what so ever! (Kind of going by what Tali said about synthetics and it would fit thier people just as well.)
Tbh they arn't more useful to anyone else than the Geth would be, fact is most people in the galaxy seem to think Quarians are more trouble than they are worth.

The Quarians really needs to get of their high horses, because their prejudice is what almost ended up makign their species go extinct 300 years ago and now they are repeating the same misstake again for the same stupid reasons. If they truly had learned from their misstakes then they would have tried a different approach.
My Shepard even told them not to go to war, and the Quarians knew the Reapers were coming, they had intel of their own telling them this. But they still didn't care they were still to selfimportant and busy playing highwaymen and executing a strategy similar to that of the third reich.. Then, when things wen't poorly for them the second time they tried to genocide the geth, they asked the galaxy for help again. 

Great!  

WRONG. If anything, you seem to be trolling the quarians in general.
Also, the fact that Legion had to be physically recalled to the Consensis is more proof. Legion tells you that he is an advanced unit, his networked architecture too complex even for Reaper control. If he "dies" on the Collector Base, there is no back-up with enough space to handle his memory and programs. Also, Legion had to physically return to geth space to present his "proof" of the Reaper's imminate return. If he really was a part of the Consensis full-time, he wouldn't have needed to physically return to the geth to provide his proof. He would have used wireless transfer.
I think that you aren't looking at any of the points before responding, since you have confused Legion returning to geth space, with Legion re-joining the Consensis. After all, Legion tells you that he was spicifically built to NOT need to be connected to the Consensis 24/7, so that he could last in deep recon beyond the Veil. That's why they made him a "miniturized server" - a walking town of geth programs, that eventually merge to form a single person. He was spicifically made to be independant.

AGAIN, WRONG.
Legion went to geth space. Then was in wireless contact with Tali and the Admirals. Then, Tali informs you that the Consensis called for him because they were in some form of chaos.
If you are talking about Tali's loyalty mission, most of the people there seem to think Legion is a hacked mech (Tali tells the quarian shuttle guard that it"s "under our control."). If you mean Xen, yes, she would likely have tried disecting it imeediately. Gerrel doesn't even seem to acknowlede Legion's presance, but he may not know Legion is a real geth. After all, Xen herself initially assumed Legion was an empty "geth shell" over a mech.
And yes, you ARE right on Legion taking understandible precautions. Which I'm sure had something to do with what he knew/witnessed on the Alerei.
But again, Gerrel saw no reason to trust Legion at face value. After all, did you believe the Illusive Man's word when he said Controling the Reapers was possible? It's telling you the exact opposate of everything you think. And the ironic thing is, what TIM says ends up being true, meaning that Shepard did to TIM what the quarians did to the geth. Only difference is, TIM was a ruthless bastard. And indoctrinated.
The point being, if someone came up and told you that everything you know about the people that attacked everyone is wrong, and do so with no physical proof or deed to back it up, are you going to believe them.
Xen, well... She views the geth the same way TIM views the Reapers. The two are almost counterparts: Ruthless, sociopathic, ambitious, desiring nothing more then seeing their race at the top of the pecking order. Their personalities are almost carbon-copyed. So, her vote was always going to be obvious.
Raan never saw anything that could prove the geth and quarian could co-habitate. She figured that there was too many wounds, and too much bad blood on both sides for peace to work.
You can't expect the Admirals to gamble 17 million on the word of a single geth. It's asking a bit much to say the least.

It would still be picked up. The quarians could have seen it coming a mile away in that case.
Also, intersystem traval is easier to pick up. There are three forms of movement.
Navagation thrutsers - the movent between planets in a system. Impossible to detect conventional thrusters on avarage unless actively looking.
FTL - travel between systems in a cluster. Blue-shifted emmisions give away the ships position and speed like lighting a flare and running with it.
FTL Jump - Mass Relay use. Same as above.
And if anything, not caring about being discreat would make it easier to detect them. The galaxy had tabs on them wherever they went. Yet were still losing forces to them. Why else do you think so many felt so desperate? It wasn't that they hit to fast. It's that even when they knew the when and where, they still got K.O.d in many engagements.
And again, wrong. All relays are connected to the centeral netwrok of the Citadel. They know were the Relays are, but never used them for fear of another Rachni Wars. However, as far as I can tell, there is only on surefire path into the Perseus Veil, and the quarians took it.

Also, it was a single Reaper destroyer. The quarians salvaged tugs destroyed, so I find it hard to believe that the entire geth war fleet - completely intact, being pre-war- would have any trouble with the single Destroyer the Reapers sent. That Destroyer came to them despite being able to be destroyed at a moments notice. The geth didn't destroy it despite having the power to do so. Hence, they invited it in.
Also that's not true. I saw no Reapers in the Ismar Frontier. Or the Far Rim.  And it's elaborated very on that the Reapers simply forced their way in through all the relays.
Also, it only gives credidance that the Reapers played the table to their advantage. The more time the geth spent worrying about possible quarian attack, the less time they would spend debating on whether to fight the Reapers themselves. It's ironic. The Reapers panic the quarians into trying to get thein world back, and then the Reapers panic the geth by telling them the quarians have panicked.

Yes, the geth didn't take up the offer until there was no longer any place to retreat to. They had pulled back all geth from the outlying systems, saving the majoriyty of programs in geth space by consolidating them on Rannoch. However, a good deal of the stations and physical bodies were scrapped by the quarian's inavsion. Saving programs is only a partial victory if there isn't any bodies to put them in, meaning they are out of the fight. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that 15% of geth in the galaxy died in the Quarians mad dash through the Perseus Veil. That number increases by 7% if you killed the Heretics, and even more since the geth processing power is less then it would be without them. In other words, if you saved the Hereicts, at least 10-15% of the geth die. If you killed the Heretics, then what is likely 25-30% of the geth die.
The crippling blow was the megastructure attack. The loss of geth life was not actually extreme in that (several thousand. Not extreme since the majority of the billions of geth programs were on Rannoch), but the attack fractured geth communication. All geth were severed from their main consensis. They were fractured. Unable to connect to each-other to form consensis of any real sort. All geth in the galaxy were suddenly segregated and seperate from each-other. All geth were suddenly alone in their shells with no contact to any other geth. They panicked and collectively, the vast majority of geth couldn't bear living without consensis - without each-other - and finally took the Reapers up on their offer. Even more ironic is that the Quarians may never have actually realized what they did to the geth by attacking that megastcucture.

Again, a single geth telling them that everything thought about geth isn't true.... well, you saw how people regarded Shepard when the Commander tried telling them that what they thought about modern life wasn't true. It wasn't taken well. Same thing likely happened with Legion. Lack of proof, this. Manipulating us, that. No reason to trust it, ect. You get the idea.

According to Javik, turians were regarded as delecasies. He even says that they fired them. They did the same to the salariasn, asari, quarians. Possibly the hanar and elcor as well. So they aren't devoid of nutriant. The only reason they are so bad off now is because they have been seperated from the symbiotic flora of Rannoch.
Javik also tells you.... many reasons why quarians were better to the protheans, as he also seems to heavily imply that quarians and asari were kept by high-ranking protheans as pleasure slaves. Quarians were appainently the favorate, because they had similar body structure (same number of fingers and toes), but maintained asari-level atractiveness. (You hear Javik tell Liara that quarians were prised among the protheans for their exotic attractiveness, and that many favored them over the asari. NOTE: You ONLY get this diolouge if Tali died in ME2, and isn't around to speak with Javik. He also hints in the ME3: Citadel DLC  that he himslef may have had more then a few quarians and asari indentured to him).

Okay, back on track, now that you have those images haunting your nightmares.
The quarian fleet is needed for logistcis, troop transport, supply running, and Crucible construction. Geth ships are not built for organic need, so they cannon evacuate colonies under siege, they cannon run large quantities of organic supplies, and they are not adept as salvaging resorces, and cost/resource-conservitive thinking. As evidenced by the geth's lofty tastes in equipment, such as the expensive ultra-viloet GARDIAN laser banks for their fleet. More powerful, but thrice as expensive, and they burn out twice as fast.
So no, one isn't better then the other. Lose the quarians and you lose the supply and evacuation lines to supprt the front line. Lose the geth, and you lose the bulk and firepower to maintain the front line.

It wasn't prejudice then, and it wasn't now. They panicked because they thought that if the geth didn't rise up on them, the Council would drop the hammer on their heads for having created an A.I. race in the first place. The geth would be dead and the quarians would be miserable for years to come under fines, lawsuits, and even possible censorship. It's ironic that they ended up in a worse position then the one they feared the Council would put them in.
Desperation made them panic and attack the geth. Same as it did now. Also, do you remember Gerrel saying "then we need a world to shelter our noncombatants while we do it." The thought - the fear - that their entire race would die in space without a homeworld to shelter on, to secure their future on, was the thing that drove them into marching into a war they didn't really desire. Not because they wanted to, but because they flet like there was no other choice but death.
So then, in their position, you would either doom the entire race to death, or bog down everyone else with all the civilians you are carrying into the front lines?
How is that logical at all?

Creating more war really doesn't help. It sounds like youre still saying it was smart of the Quarians to start a war.
You are also throwing out a lot of assumptions on numbers that are nothing but guesses.
Legion was back with his people when he was communicating with Tali over the extranet. Legion was still availabe to Tali when she proposed peace talks that were voted down by the other admirals.
They never took the chance. Then as things got tense communication ceased. If that was after or before the Quarian attack isn't clear, it sounds like Tali thought they had become enemies or that Legion was busy working against the reaper takeover.
Or maybe the geth got as paranoid as the Quarians and shackled him.
Maybe the reapers told the geth that Legion was a traitor that was conspiring with the Quarians, and they belived them, at the very least by banning further communication.
In the end we find Legion shackled.
What i'm saying is the Quarians didnt try to make peace, not even once in 300 years. If the council sent a shuttle with a or a few diplomats then it went badly after the synthetic massacre the council performed at the end of the MW.
Then you were talking about Javic, we all know the Proteans were imperialistic slavers, there isnt much more to that.
Their fear of the council should have been secondary long before they got wiped out. There were several atempts to negotiate back then but there was no talking to the military. It's late for me so good night.
I'm not going to comment the rest of your fanfiction or headcannon tonight.

AGAIN, they saw no other choice. The geth never showed any major inclination to wanting peace. The quarians were supposed to gamble their entire race on the word of one geth? I don't think any human would do that for a turian. Or that any other race would do that for another race member. Hell, I don't think anyone would take that bet even if the person came from their OWN race. Look at Shepard and the sckeptisism from the Alliance over Shepard's word. They were desperate. They felt they didn't have a choice.
The war was no more "smart" then the geth selling out to the Reapers was. It was desperation, plain and simple on BOTH sides.

Legion wasn't part of the Consensis at that time. He was acting without their consent or apporval. The fact that Legion would do such things and act without their approval was why they locked him in the Dreadnought - they couldn't trust him to absatin from speaking with Tali. Either way, it's evident that the geth are no more immune to parinoia, sckeptisism, fear, and distrust then the quarians.
And again, this was before the War was proposed, as Xen's weapons weren't revealed till just before the quarians launched their invasion. For the six months between the games, Tali was brought onto the Board, and possibility of a negotiation was brought to the Admirals, all except Koris thinking it was impossible that the geth would suddenly negotiate with them.

And AGAIN, that same criteria applies to the geth. Never once in 300 years did they make any conserted effort to achieve peace either. Also, this is confirmed to have continued 300 years later, as private ships, civilian included, never returned from the Veil.

And it was basically one and the same for them. The Council would have devestated their econony, or delivered some form of harsh punishment for creating the geth. And then the geth would be "decomissioned" anyway. They didn't see any other choice.

AGAIN, not headcannon, or fanfiction. You were the one using that, Mr "quarians aren't like us so they aren't alive."

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

WRONG. There IS no other path to the Perseus Veil, otherwise the quarians would have taken it.
"bouncing" isn't it at all. There is only one primary that directly connects to the Perseus Veil, and that's in the Far Rim.

The geth have an entire fleet. Almost as many dreadnoughts as the turians do - nearly 30. Also, the point is that the Reaper would have had to been right behind the Migrnat Fleet, and could not have overtakin them without being spotted. The quarians would have seen it. Also, by trainlin the Migrant fleet all the way, it would mean the Reaper would have gotten to Rannoch, got settled into a Reaper constructed base, had Legion hooked into the Dreadnough, and been ready to go in a single day, and done so without the Migrnat Fleet ever seeing it. Not really possible.

The simple point is that you know where it is, and where to wait for it in the "corridor."

I asked for game evidence.  I have never seen anyone in the game say that while they are in the Mass Relay they can see and fire weapons at someone else in the relay.  Please find me an example of a firefight occuring in the Mass Relay itself.  I have seen fights after someone exists a mass relay but not while someone is actually in it.  I don't think the game ever tells us what people experience and can do will within the mass relay itself. 

And you still miss the point.  If the Reaper never exits the Mass Relay, how are the quarians going to know who is travelling within it?  Again see above, the game never suggests anyone can see what is going on in the Mass Relay from the outside.  You can track perhaps that something has entered and exited from different relays but where are you getting the evidence you can identify who is in a mass relay at a given time or actually see them?  The corridor is not some highway rest stop.  It is a bending of space time.  Most likely the reason why the Flotilla takes longer is because it has more mass.  So the mass relay takes more time to convert all that mass into a mass free object.  A single Reaper ship has less mass so converting it takes less time.  But you can't actually see each other in the Mass Relay as this process takes place.  Now again, if I missed where this was suggested provide a link but the Mass Relay is essentially a wormhole that connects two points in space.

Mass relays function by creating a virtually mass-free "corridor" of space-time between each other

http://masseffect.wi...iki/Mass_relays

AGAIN, you fail to prove your point. Nothing in that says that you can't track the movement of a ship through the Relay. 
And AGAIN, I never said "shoot at it while in transit." That's YOUR inevntion. I said it was impossible for the Reaper to get past the fleet without being notcied. NOT that they could fire on it while in the corridor. And AGAIN, they don't need to go into the Corridor. They could extrapolate it's course and be waiting on the other side for when it did come out of the Corridor.

The quarians would know that none of their ships are this near, or inside, the Perseus Veil. Not unless  they are geth-related. After all, who else is going to be this deep in geth space besides more geth?
The simple point is that if they detect it, they are going to track it, see where it comes out, and kill it if it's hostile.

[Argolas]

Those quote pyramids make it impossible to follow the discussion.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Someone please teach Silver how to snip quotes.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

WRONG on ALL counts.
First off,  you never gave any proof as to why the quarians are supposed to trust one single geth as a valid representitive of his people. If the geth cared about negotiation, the quarians thoughts that surely they would send MORE then one geth - and a geth that isn't even properly connected to the Consensis at that. As well as perhaps, some physical proof? Vacate Rannoch, maybe? Offer to meet on neutral ground, maybe? Come on, the geth want peace yet want the quarians to do all the legwork? Saying both sides need to strive for peace is pretty redundant if you expect one side to do all the work and take all the risk, which is basically what the geth seem to have assumed the quarians would do. I never saw any back and forth between geth and quarians. Just Legion - one geth - with Tali and the Admirals.

Second off, The geth gave themselves the reputation of being impossible to negotiate with, and the Council DID try peace talks before. They sent unarmed diplomatic ships into the Veil, broadcasting on all frequencies that they were unarmed and only wanted to talk. The geth blew them away without hesetation. And AGAIN, The death of those A.I.s was not public knowledge.

Third off, you have done nothing but chastize the quarians, when the geth have shown the same exact 100% neglection for wanting peace.  I didn't see the geth sending out surveys and diplomatic ships to make peaceful contact with the galaxy. I don't see them trying any form of attempt to disclaim the Heretics actions. NOTHING to make them seem like they want open negotiation. You can't say they both had faults, then turn around and try to say it was all on the quarians. And AGAIN, The only reason they attack is because they have not seen any proof of the geth wanting peace either, and because they do not want to float in space waiting for the Reapers to kill them.

The geth refused the oppertunity just as much with their forced isolation. And the quarians did not attack out of hatred of the geth. They attacked to have a world, so they could ensure they would have a future after the Reapers are stopped.

So NO. You replied to the questions with things that were disproven before.

Can you please go back to my post where I say I think you missed where I said both sides showed little desire for peace.  BOTH SIDES.  I simply said that Legion represents the start of the Geth doing so and that his relationship with Tali and Shep create an opportunity.  The past 300 years is irrelevant.  Both sides don't trust each other.  B[/b][/u]oth sides have little reason to trust each other.  You can continue to mistrust and hate each other or you can take advantage of this new opportunity. 

Legion explains clearly to Shepard why only he was sent.  Orgnanics fear the Geth and so as not to incite them, they sent Legion.  There is no logical reason for the Geth to vacate Rannoch.  The Quarians started the war and lost.  You don't give back land when you are the victor just to be nice.  That is absurd.  Especially when the guys who started it have yet to say you have a right to exist nor have they apologized for starting a war and trying to exterminate you.

Find a reference otherwise that says these ships were UNARMED.  The Normandy routinely takes part in diplomatic missions in the game and it is armed.  Furthermore, explain to me why the Geth should believe these ships come in peace?  Because they say so?  Right the Geth should just believe that the Organics whose laws let to attempts to exterminate them and who just finished killing a harmless AI race really mean it when they say they want peace?  Meanwhile they are amassing a huge fleet outside the PV.  Sorry, to me it sounds like they want to scout out the PV and see what they are up against so they send ships claiming peace while they fly along gathering intel for war.

You have no proof the deah of those AIs was not public knowledge.  It was not public knowledge 300 years later.  At the time it happened, 300 AI which is the number you speculated don't just dissappear without anyone noticing.  There would be chatter and speculation and perhaps even news articles at the time asking where the f**k did these AI go?  The Geth could easily have become aware that these AI magically disappeared on the Citadel because they were living at the time these events occurred.  And then shortly after these AI magically disappear never to be heard from again, the Council is like let's be friends, lol.

So let me repeat there is enough history there for BOTH SIDES to mistrust each other.  However, peace has to start somewhere.  Legion, Tali and Shep is where it could have started.  I hold the Quarians more responsible because they are the ones planning war.  If you are going to plan a war to kill other people then you have the greater responsible to try peaceful means first.  If the Geth were the ones planning war then I would hold them more accountable.  They are not.  The Quarians are.

But AGAIN, he has no proof that he is operating on behalf of all geth. After the geth attack on the Citadel, how is anyone supposed to place the fate of 17 million - an entire race - on a single geth? The past 300 years are [u]the entire reason that the quarians are unwilling to trust Legion.[b]

Again, wrong. Legion clearly explains that he was sent to locate Shepard after the Commander was delcared dead. Legion's sole purpose was to confirm Shepard's death, or if Shepard was alive, study the Commander and learn about Shepard. The geth were ONLY interested in Shepard, because Shepard defeated Sovergein - a "lesser being" defeated a "superiour being." A "God" as the Heretics called it. And AGAIN, the quarians started the war because the alternitive was being punsihed by the Council for the geth's creation. And we all know the Council is unreasonable in their punsihments. The quarians had no choice in the path they took either, so don't tote there being a high road, because nither has anything to brag to the other for.

Mass Effect: Revelation. It lists there being miltiple unarmed diplomatic envoys that tried conatcting the geth, through communication, and physical contact. All were met with the geth shooting them down.
If you read the book, you would know that. They were unarmed, AND broadcasting open hails that they were coming in peace. Also, I find it hard to believe the geth lacked the capability to scan those ships and see for themselves they were unarmed. THAT'S why I say so: Because the book does.
AGAIN. the A.I.s on the Citadel were NOT public knowledge. Find proof they were, and THEN you can use them as a point. As is, they AREN'T. They have NO BEARING on the geth's choice. So stop bringing them into this.
And the fact that the fleet on the Border of the Perseus Veil didn't march in, and never did, and that the Council kept trying periodiocly regardless, says a lot about the organics being proactive in trying to create open diolouges.

Again, secret Council vault. Filled with information not publicly known, like the Genophage release not being legal. Or the creation of the Spectres.
NO ONE was ever aware of what happened, or that this faction existed.

And again, three individuals isn't enough, when nither side is onboard either. Legion came to the table with nothing to prove that any geth backed him. And the geth seemingly weren't planing to do ANYTHING about the Reapers unless directly threatened.

[silverexile17s]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Someone please teach Silver how to snip quotes.

Yes, please. Every time I try, I screw it up.
.... Do you know anything about qoute-snipping? Please?

[silverexile17s]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Of course, the quarians continue to be Aryan Perfection. The quarian side continues to scare and stupefy me. They're just a victimised master race. Of course.

Also, picking on spelling, really? That shows when you don't have much of an argument.

To be honest, I think this debate is over. I just can't see the quarian side being reasonable. We're not going to get past the Aryan Perfection thing.

Um... no one said anything about perfection. YOU are the only one that brought it up.
They are a victimised race, PERIOUD. Same as the geth.

They are EQUAL. THAT'S the point. If anyone sees a race as being "Aryan Perfection" it's you with the geth.

[silverexile17s]

Argolas wrote...

Look, the Morning War is not that complicated of a matter. The quarians panicked and committed genocide against the geth. The geth panicked and committed genocide against the quarians in return. Both sides killed countless innocents of the other. You can't justify that the quarians attacked peaceful geth units. You can't justify that the geth slaughtered quarian innocents and children.

......Congradulations. You summed up 160 pages of debate in one paragraph.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

AGAIN, you fail to prove your point. Nothing in that says that you can't track the movement of a ship through the Relay. 
And AGAIN, I never said "shoot at it while in transit." That's YOUR inevntion. I said it was impossible for the Reaper to get past the fleet without being notcied. NOT that they could fire on it while in the corridor. And AGAIN, they don't need to go into the Corridor. They could extrapolate it's course and be waiting on the other side for when it did come out of the Corridor.

The quarians would know that none of their ships are this near, or inside, the Perseus Veil. Not unless  they are geth-related. After all, who else is going to be this deep in geth space besides more geth?
The simple point is that if they detect it, they are going to track it, see where it comes out, and kill it if it's hostile.

But it comes out at the Perseus Veil.  The Quarians are in the Far Rim.  That is the point Silver.  If a Reaper entered the Mass Relay from another system outside the Far RIm and if it's final destination is the Perseus Veil then how the hell can the Quarians track it?  They don't see or know when or where the Reaper entered the Mass Relay network so they can't track it form the point of origin.

The only thing they will perhaps notice if they are sitting at the Far Rim Mass Relay is the light that flashes letting them know someone has actually passed through the Far Rim Mass Relay.  However, they would notice it after the fact and have no way of knowing who it is.  By the time they extropolate and figure out it was a ship heading to the PV, they are already several hours behind it.  Sending in a massive fleet to investigate would mean they are not going to beat it to the PV because they are slower.  Sending a smaller fleet would risk that small fleet getting destroyed when the Reaper emerges out of the Mass Relay after it.

So sorry,  a Reaper could easily enter the mass relay from another system.   The quarians would not know.  At some point the Quarians may pick up a signal once the Reaper passes through the Far Rim still within the Mass Relay network on it's way to the PV.  By that point it is already ahead of the Quarians and the Quarians would have to waste resources to try and figure out who it is as they are currently engagd in a war with the Geth.

[cyrexwingblade]

...There's also no proof that anyone we meet is an exemplar of their race. I like Tali, and I liked the Quarians we helped on Ilium in ME2, and Reegar. Most of the other Quarians are kinda jerks. Wasn't terribly eager to help them. I fought for Tali, Reegar, and Legion. If Legion turned out to be wrong, yeah, it would suck. But my Shep got that far trusting her crew, no point stopping now.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Look, the Morning War is not that complicated of a matter. The quarians panicked and committed genocide against the geth. The geth panicked and committed genocide against the quarians in return. Both sides killed countless innocents of the other. You can't justify that the quarians attacked peaceful geth units. You can't justify that the geth slaughtered quarian innocents and children.

......Congradulations. You summed up 160 pages of debate in one paragraph.

The problem here is the Quarians are clearly moral beings who know right from wrong.  No one disputes the Geth killed people and it was terrible.  The issues are:

1) Did the Quarians give them any other alternative.  Innocents die in war all the time.  That is why you shouldn't start wars.

2) Did the Geth understand the morality of their actions or did they simply operate at a kill or be killed level?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Can we just admit it all boils down to personal preference and who would be worth the most points?

Edit: In the interest of sanity I would ask everyone who knows how to snip quotes to do so.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 06 avril 2013 - 11:05 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

But it comes out at the Perseus Veil.  The Quarians are in the Far Rim.  That is the point Silver.  If a Reaper entered the Mass Relay from another system outside the Far RIm and if it's final destination is the Perseus Veil then how the hell can the Quarians track it?  They don't see or know when or where the Reaper entered the Mass Relay network so they can't track it form the point of origin.

The only thing they will perhaps notice if they are sitting at the Far Rim Mass Relay is the light that flashes letting them know someone has actually passed through the Far Rim Mass Relay.  However, they would notice it after the fact and have no way of knowing who it is.  By the time they extropolate and figure out it was a ship heading to the PV, they are already several hours behind it.  Sending in a massive fleet to investigate would mean they are not going to beat it to the PV because they are slower.  Sending a smaller fleet would risk that small fleet getting destroyed when the Reaper emerges out of the Mass Relay after it.

So sorry,  a Reaper could easily enter the mass relay from another system.   The quarians would not know.  At some point the Quarians may pick up a signal once the Reaper passes through the Far Rim still within the Mass Relay network on it's way to the PV.  By that point it is already ahead of the Quarians and the Quarians would have to waste resources to try and figure out who it is as they are currently engagd in a war with the Geth.

But AGAIN, the point is that no other relay connects to the Tikkun system. Only the one located in the Far Rim. And since the quarians would have at the very least been monitoring their back-door, the thought that someone would slip through is unlikely. There is only ONE main route to the Veil, and that's the ones the quarians were on. The same path the Reapers would have to take.

Also, the fact that someone entered the Relay is all that's needed. That alone would set them off, as no one else is supposed to be there. Also, the ship would arrive roughly the same sopt, so extrapolating wouldn't be that hard. Just go off of the general area you arrived in and bam, you have a likely destination spot.

So, NO. There isn't any way that works. Secondary Relays do not have the Range of the Primaries. The only route is through the Far Rim.
And the Far Rim isn't the only geth system they would have had to go through. There was also the Pheniox Massing they would have had to go through to get to the Far Rim, since the quarians don't have the Normandy's stealth drive.
Look at this map:
images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120502081343/masseffect/fr/images/9/92/Mass_Effect_3_Galaxy_Map.jpg
Look at the list of systems where geth infulence is. Sentrey Omega. Pheniox Massing. Far Rim. Perseus Veil. Although, the Pheniox Massing (Heretic Headquarters) and Sentry Omega (Virmire) are both Heretic Space, if you get technical. And we know from ME2 that the Geth were present in the Hades Nexus as well (crashed geth dreadnought on Altie, where Project: Overlord was stationed). And we know from ME2 that the Heretics were expanding out into the Caleston Rift (Geth wheather device on Canalus), which is the neghiboring system from the Pheniox Massing, where the Heretic's HQ station is located. We also know that the True Geth seemed to be attempting to Colonize the Armstrong Nebula, accesible by passing through the mostly vaciant Nubian Expanse and "bouncing" through the Attican Beta, near Feros, whose path was cleared by the Heretics earlier on. Since those geth were said by Tali to be "different" from Saren's geth, as they were acting alone.
So, in truth, the geth had quite the reach, and there really isn't any way to the Perseus Veil but through the Far Rim. Which in turn requires going through the Pheniox Massing. Which is much easer for them if you killed the Heretics.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 07 avril 2013 - 01:22 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Look, the Morning War is not that complicated of a matter. The quarians panicked and committed genocide against the geth. The geth panicked and committed genocide against the quarians in return. Both sides killed countless innocents of the other. You can't justify that the quarians attacked peaceful geth units. You can't justify that the geth slaughtered quarian innocents and children.

......Congradulations. You summed up 160 pages of debate in one paragraph.

The problem here is the Quarians are clearly moral beings who know right from wrong.  No one disputes the Geth killed people and it was terrible.  The issues are:

1) Did the Quarians give them any other alternative.  Innocents die in war all the time.  That is why you shouldn't start wars.

2) Did the Geth understand the morality of their actions or did they simply operate at a kill or be killed level?

1) If there was one, the quarians were too panicked by fear of geth uprising, or Council retribition, to see it.
If you are talking about the moddern Rannoch War, then with the Reapers pressing everyone, no, they didn't have much choice but to reclaim Rannoch.

2) We know that at least a good portion of geth had emotional responces, and a grasp of them.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

1) If there was one, the quarians were too panicked by fear of geth uprising, or Council retribition, to see it.
If you are talking about the moddern Rannoch War, then with the Reapers pressing everyone, no, they didn't have much choice but to reclaim Rannoch.

2) We know that at least a good portion of geth had emotional responces, and a grasp of them.

1.  I was referring to what choice did the Quarians give the Geth except to kill them to survive during the morning war?

2.  We know this how?  We know they show concern for creators that tried to protect them.  Showing mercy to an enemy is illogical.  The natural and logical response is to exterminate them.  So how do you think they learned this illogical concept of showing mercy to someone who seeks your destruction?  Who taught them this?  Certainly not the Quarians.

3.  This is a question.  Is there anything in the game that says if I travel from the Hades Nexus to the Far Rim to the Perseus Veil that I have to enter and exit the Mass Relay at each step of the way?  If I simply go from Mass Relay to Mass Relay without ever exiting the mass relay system then I would reach the PV without ever exiting at the Far Rim because when I connect to the Far Rim from the Hades Nexus, it would simply then propel me onto my journey to the PV.

Modifié par remydat, 07 avril 2013 - 01:43 .

[remydat]

Also here is a nice little gem where EDI explains basically how she is basically using Reaper Tech.  So for all those concerned about Legion using Reaper Code how do you like EDI having millions of keys from the Reaper IFF that she keeps in the system in case she has to EVOLVE them.

Modifié par remydat, 07 avril 2013 - 01:55 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

1) If there was one, the quarians were too panicked by fear of geth uprising, or Council retribition, to see it.
If you are talking about the moddern Rannoch War, then with the Reapers pressing everyone, no, they didn't have much choice but to reclaim Rannoch.

2) We know that at least a good portion of geth had emotional responces, and a grasp of them.

1.  I was referring to what choice did the Quarians give the Geth except to kill them to survive during the morning war?

2.  We know this how?  We know they show concern for creators that tried to protect them.  Showing mercy to an enemy is illogical.  The natural and logical response is to exterminate them.  So how do you think they learned this illogical concept of showing mercy to someone who seeks your destruction?  Who taught them this?  Certainly not the Quarians.

3.  This is a question.  Is there anything in the game that says if I travel from the Hades Nexus to the Far Rim to the Perseus Veil that I have to enter and exit the Mass Relay at each step of the way?  If I simply go from Mass Relay to Mass Relay without ever exiting the mass relay system then I would reach the PV without ever exiting at the Far Rim because when I connect to the Far Rim from the Hades Nexus, it would simply then propel me onto my journey to the PV.

1.) Well, to be frank, the ****** policies of the Council panicked them. The quarians panicked under the Council, just as the geth did under the quarians. It's a cycle. As far as I can tell, the only party that has true prejudice against one spicific side is the Council.

2.) Well, geth have shown emotional capasity before, like fear, caution, mistrust, curiosity, and the like.
And Legion already stated that they spared the quarians because they couldn't calculate the mathmatical ramafacations of killing an entire race.

3.) I think showing the stopping and starting through multiple relays was cut out for the sake of making sure it wasn't repetitive. Everything in the lore says that one relay is connected to a spicific partner. You basically have to enter, exit, then enter the next one. As you can imagine, such things would likely be cut from the game for the sake of saving time. Also, if it was that simple, the quarians wouldn't have had to plow through four systems to get to Rannoch. Also, those trips you talk about are done from aborad the Normandy, whose Stealth Drive makes it so that you can enter, exit, and repeate the parrtern all the way through without ever getting caught or stopped.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Also here is a nice little gem where EDI explains basically how she is basically using Reaper Tech.  So for all those concerned about Legion using Reaper Code how do you like EDI having millions of keys from the Reaper IFF that she keeps in the system in case she has to EVOLVE them.

That's still different. EDI has Adams, Traynor, and the entire Normandy Crew on-hand to pull the plug if she goes berserk. What fail-safe is there for Legion if he screws up? EDI let everyone know what she was doing and when, so that someone could stop it. Legion kept it to himself.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

1.) Well, to be frank, the ****** policies of the Council panicked them. The quarians panicked under the Council, just as the geth did under the quarians. It's a cycle. As far as I can tell, the only party that has true prejudice against one spicific side is the Council.

2.) Well, geth have shown emotional capasity before, like fear, caution, mistrust, curiosity, and the like.
And Legion already stated that they spared the quarians because they couldn't calculate the mathmatical ramafacations of killing an entire race.

3.) I think showing the stopping and starting through multiple relays was cut out for the sake of making sure it wasn't repetitive. Everything in the lore says that one relay is connected to a spicific partner. You basically have to enter, exit, then enter the next one. As you can imagine, such things would likely be cut from the game for the sake of saving time. Also, if it was that simple, the quarians wouldn't have had to plow through four systems to get to Rannoch. Also, those trips you talk about are done from aborad the Normandy, whose Stealth Drive makes it so that you can enter, exit, and repeate the parrtern all the way through without ever getting caught or stopped.

1.  Quarians like Xen are just as prejudiced as the Council.  You likely have a full spectrum of people with different views..  In any event, it still doesn't answer the question, what choice did the Quarians give the Geth but to kill them?

2.  I think the Geth devoted their processing power to survival during the MW just like EDI mentions how she can devote processing power to being an individual as oppose to more collective ideas.  At the end of the MW with their survival secure, they could then devote processing power to determine the Quarian fate and ultimately decided they did not have enough data to wipe them out.  The point is, their sense of morality is evolving like any species.  You can't expect them to have a full understanding of it when they were just born and it took us millions of years to figure it out and we still struggle with it.

3.  Yes but this is speculation.  I always interpreted that if you had the coordinates of your final destination, you could plug them in and not have to enter, exit, and re-enter.  So the reason organics may have to is because they don't possess all the coordinates.  The Reapers built the system so likely know the coordinates to every relay.  Also the Mass Relay in Tikkun would be heavily guarded most likely so exiting it would be suicide.  This is especially true if Xen's weapon isn't as effective as they think as it hasn't really been tested on large populations of Geth.  So it makes more sense to attack the fringes of Geth space as there would be less of a presence and you could test out your weapon and if it doesn't work as well as you expect still be able to escape.  In the end, this is all speculation though which is why I was asking if there was something stated clearly in the game or not.