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*THE GREAT DEBATE* - NO PEACE obtainable between the Geth & Quarians: Who would you choose and Why? (Pic of BioWare Stats Inside)


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#4076
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Wayning_Star wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Shepard probably got the idea the Reaper code was safe when he went inside the Geth consensus, saw that "Reaper code" was basically bright orange blocks, and shot it, thus managing to free an entire server off Geth from Reaper control in a half hour.


Well, Shep does have a little "reaper code"  of his/her own..Cerberus implants' n all..Posted Image


That is NOT reaper code. Code is software. Hardware is different. And it probably isn't actual reaper hardware but reaper tech based. TIM? He's got the real thing.

#4077
remydat

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Wayning_Star wrote...

Legion stated that they only kept Rannoch in case the Quarian's  ended hostilities. The actual Geth live outside the system beyond the veil. Destroy all Geth in the MEU, they just build more platforms. Gave Legion ulcers just computing the problematics. Legion knew it/he had to figure out a way to alter the heretics so they'd understand that the old machines were superior, technologically. They were quasi-organic. Like Shepard only different... Probably why Legion 'joined' with the consensus, share the wealth( of information). Communication has it perks.


Yes if they ENDED HOSTILITIES ie they were no longer a threat to attack.  Just giving it up so the Quarians can re-populate is not smart because if they are still hostile then you have basically given them a planet that makes it easier for them to destroy you.

CronoDragoon wrote...

I don't find any evidence for your reasons in-game, and they would make sense as implied reasons if not for the fact that Legion explicitly tells us why they stay on/near Rannoch, which is the reason I stated.


The reasons are implied from the fact the Geth have yet to relinquish it.  They have not done so because HOSTILITIES are ongoing.  You don't give your enemy a planet they can use to destroy you.  The Geth are caretakers for the planet in the event the Quarians provide data that they will not seek to destroy them. 

Modifié par remydat, 08 avril 2013 - 12:57 .


#4078
CronoDragoon

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remydat wrote...

Yes if they ENDED HOSTILITIES ie they were no longer a threat to attack.  Just giving it up so the Quarians can re-populate is not smart because if they are still hostile then you have basically given them a planet that makes it easier for them to destroy you.


A couple pages ago you argued that the quarians resettling on Rannoch actually weakened them, didn't you?

Regardless, I'd think it easier to destroy the geth when I know exactly where they are, which is the case with them orbiting Rannoch on space stations.

#4079
sH0tgUn jUliA

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If the planet wasn't important to them, why did they build the web in Tikkun? Why couldn't they build it elsewhere? Okay holding Rannoch was nice, but building the web there was not. They're not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Giving up Rannoch, and letting the Quarians resettle, and then LEAVING THE SYSTEM probably would have been the best idea, but we know how things go. The Quarians probably would have stayed on Rannoch and stayed out of the Geth's way. Then the Heretics would have attacked with nukes.

#4080
Phatose

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Shepard probably got the idea the Reaper code was safe when he went inside the Geth consensus, saw that "Reaper code" was basically bright orange blocks, and shot it, thus managing to free an entire server off Geth from Reaper control in a half hour.


Oh boy. See problem. Go inside of geth. See big orange blocks. Shoot with gun. Safe now. Arrrr.<_<

Why couldn't we do that on the Citadel? Oh... too many orange blocks.


Well, it worked.  Really well, actually.

We can see from Legion being free-willed despite having the Reaper code that it is possible to disarm the control.  Heck, we even get to do it ourselves. 

#4081
remydat

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

And what gave Shepard the idea that the reaper code was going to be safe? EDI got hacked when it interfaced with the Collector ship. The Reaper IFF was REAPER SOFTWARE, hence REAPER CODE, and look what happened to the Normandy. And Shepard is willing to "trust Legion" a lesser powered VI to make a better decision than EDI? I'm left scratching my head about Shepard's IQ. No, I'm left scratching my head about .... never mind, I'll get in trouble with the moderators.




EDI still has evolving Reaper Code in it in ME3.  Just like the Geth Reaper Code, they initially had issues with it and then EDI fixed it.  She has been operating perfectly fine with Reaper Code all through ME3.  Legion likewise said he has fixed it.  You can either trust him or not

#4082
remydat

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CronoDragoon wrote...

A couple pages ago you argued that the quarians resettling on Rannoch actually weakened them, didn't you?

Regardless, I'd think it easier to destroy the geth when I know exactly where they are, which is the case with them orbiting Rannoch on space stations.


Yes but I fail to see the point.  Resettling in a Reaper War does weaken them because they have no knowledge that the planet is ready for them to live on.

That is completely irrelevant to the larger question of why the Geth keep Rannoch.  That question has nothing to do with the Reaper War and thus my point about resettling during the Reaper War is irrelevant to this discussion.  Two completely different circumstances.

#4083
Wayning_Star

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Geth are NOT out to destroy you. Legion is adamant about it, his/its only purpose was to study organics, not to spot weakness, but strengths, other than military.Mostly, just to figure out why organics were so paranoid.
They will however attack you if you are known to be hostile toward synthetics. That is the ONLY reason they 'went for' the old machines' hype. Not all Geth went that route either..apparently.

#4084
Wayning_Star

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remydat wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

A couple pages ago you argued that the quarians resettling on Rannoch actually weakened them, didn't you?

Regardless, I'd think it easier to destroy the geth when I know exactly where they are, which is the case with them orbiting Rannoch on space stations.


Yes but I fail to see the point.  Resettling in a Reaper War does weaken them because they have no knowledge that the planet is ready for them to live on.

That is completely irrelevant to the larger question of why the Geth keep Rannoch.  That question has nothing to do with the Reaper War and thus my point about resettling during the Reaper War is irrelevant to this discussion.  Two completely different circumstances.


keyword: creators

#4085
Wayning_Star

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Remember folks. The Geth consensus is now Legion...

#4086
Wayning_Star

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Shepard probably got the idea the Reaper code was safe when he went inside the Geth consensus, saw that "Reaper code" was basically bright orange blocks, and shot it, thus managing to free an entire server off Geth from Reaper control in a half hour.


Well, Shep does have a little "reaper code"  of his/her own..Cerberus implants' n all..Posted Image


That is NOT reaper code. Code is software. Hardware is different. And it probably isn't actual reaper hardware but reaper tech based. TIM? He's got the real thing.


reaper tech ran by none other than reappear code.. I've not found any codexuals about it, to alter that perception. Even the pesky catalyst warns of it...Posted Image

#4087
remydat

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Wayning_Star wrote...

keyword: creators


The reality is despite all the bullsh*t, Legion and the Geth seem to be as sad as a synthetic can be that their gods disowned them.  The Geth never wanted this war.  They never wanted the hate and they pretty much fall over themselves to help the Quarians once peace is achieved.  Hell they take care of the planet basically hoping one day the Quarians will stop trying to kill them.  Legion flat out says that "Perhaps we do it for them."

They killed their gods because their gods forced them to.  Otherwise pre-MW and post peace they seem perfectly happy to do what their name demands ie to serve.  And that is ultimately what makes the whole story so tragic for me.  We had 300 years of misery and bloodshed because the Quarians did not understand their own creations.  All they wanted to do is serve them in a symbiotic and mutual beneificial relationship and the Quarians could not trust or believe that.  Instead they imagined that the Geth would rebel.

#4088
CronoDragoon

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remydat wrote...

Yes but I fail to see the point.  Resettling in a Reaper War does weaken them because they have no knowledge that the planet is ready for them to live on.

That is completely irrelevant to the larger question of why the Geth keep Rannoch.  That question has nothing to do with the Reaper War and thus my point about resettling during the Reaper War is irrelevant to this discussion.  Two completely different circumstances.


I think it's relevant because any concerns you bring up aren't limited to the Reaper war; they are concerns the quarians will have about Rannoch regardless of the larger state of the galaxy (lack of food, shelter, zero infrastructure, etc). If the geth aren't going to give the quarians Rannoch because it would strengthen the quarians, then I fail to see why this argument cannot also be made for why the quarians would try and take their homeworld back for the Reaper war.

#4089
silverexile17s

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remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

1. The Reaper invasion. Wacthing the humans and turians get their asses handed to them. Also, the batarians were getting thrashed at least a week or two before ME3, so that was also a scare. Also, based on the diolouge in ME2, it seems the quarians were more accepting of the Reapers existance. In fact, in Mass Effect: Ascention, an unspicified member of the Admiralty Board was suggetsing capturing a Reaper, and brainwshing it to be their slave, then send it to enslave the geth, wither willingly by presenting them with a fake "God" to worship, or reprogram them through the Reaper.
I'd bet $100 the Admiral that suggested this was Xen. Fortunetly, the movement was shot down. Regardless, it shows that the quarians, at the very least, were treating the Reapers' existance as possible since the end of ME1.
Also, in case you missed this, if the war fails, ALL RACES are harvested. That's not negotible. And to have a chance of fighting that fate, the quarians need a world to secure their future on. After all, having a world has been key for near-every race in the Reaper War.
Also, Tali says that because she alone kenw Legion was sincere in his belief on negotiation. No one else besides Koris believed it would work, or in Xen's case, that it was even an option.

2. WHY would they target something that was basically out of the way? And the Codex spicifically lists them as destroying it after they drove the quarians off Rannoch. AFTER they forced the quarians off. So if there were no quarians left, WHY did they need to destory those archives?

3. Those geth WEREN'T disabled. The entire point of the Alerei mission was showing that the geth Rael worked on were "born" by powering them up and creating new processes. It's escentally "birthing" the first new geth by quarian hands since the Morning War. "Birthing" them, and then making silver-white ribbions with their innerds and scrambled gray eggs with their brains. Xen likely tested on larger and larger "newborn" geth as time went on, until she was confident enough to test on independant geth.
Also, the fact that the Reapers had to, and I qoute, "fight through the asari to take Thessia" or "push to take it," is more proof, because the main priority should be taking each species' homeworld, then focusing on the colonies. But because the Relays are all unsealed, they can't close them off ans segregate the races anymore, so they have to slog through every system in their path. That's half the Reason the galaxy was doing as well as it was against the Reapers.
Just face it: This interconnected Relay idea is not true. You have to jump, exit, then make the next jump.


1.   Koris and Tali would not have disagreed with the war if the Reapers were coming tomorrow.  Tali and EDI would not have a discussion about how the Reapers don't seem to care about the Quarians if the threat was eminent.  The Quarians have a penchant for jumping the gun.  There is nothing in the game that suggests they could not have waited.  Nothing.  The Reapers were not concerend about them.  They could have tried for peace.

2.  Because they served no purpose Silver.  They are machines.  They are likely using Rannoch as a base.  Stuff like playgrounds, archives, restaurtants, etc. serve no purpose to them.

3.  A war involves fighting thousands if not millions of Geth.  Xen did not test her weapon on thousands or millions of Geth.  The only way to see if it works against thousands or millions of Geth is in war.  The Reapers have an interest in stoping at each relay to investigate the system.  They haven't been around for 50,000 years Silver.  They don't know exactly what they will find.  

1. Again, "we need a world to shelter our noncombatents while we do it." Koris is still clinging to the idea that somewhere out there, a world that matches Rannoch is going to fall right into their laps. Koris is an idealist. That's not a bad thing, but banking everything on blind hope can only go so far. As for Tali, it's because she's friends with Legion, and after what happened with her father, she's grown tired of the mutiual distrust from both sides. She now wants a world where geth and quarians co-habitate, a view that Koris shares. And Koris is the only one willing to take Legion's word on blind faith. None of the other Admirals are willing to do anything without evidence. Think of Koris as the quarian version of Anderson on the Council - willing to trust Tali on faith that she knows what she's doing. But still different, in that Anderson had Kaiden/Ashley confirm your claims first. Koris is again, an idealist, which is risky when 17 million hang in the balance. You don't screw around with an entire races future unless you have hard proof to back up the action your taking.

2. It STILL was no threat to them. Look at Haestrom. They didn't buldoze the ruins on that world for construction. Why did they need to do so for Rannoch's Ancestor Archives? What was gained?

3. Geth don't need bodies, remember? Testing it on geth programs contained within an isolated server is just as effective - she likely learned from Rael's mistake of giving them bodies. One server housing enough programs to pilot a ship. If that is effective, she moves on to work on two servers. Then three. Then finally, field testing. As a viral weapon, it can be used by ANY SHIP, meaning that one quarians ship can disable several geth ships with this weapon. Field test being sucessful, she would move to the coup de' grace  - active use in war. Remember, Xen was developing this  weapon for at least 5 months following ME2 - more then enough time to garuntee it's functionality, and get at least one field test. And then the last month before ME3 was spent voting on weather to go to war, and then arming all ships for the invasion when the majority vote came out as "yes."

#4090
remydat

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CronoDragoon wrote...

I think it's relevant because any concerns you bring up aren't limited to the Reaper war; they are concerns the quarians will have about Rannoch regardless of the larger state of the galaxy (lack of food, shelter, zero infrastructure, etc). If the geth aren't going to give the quarians Rannoch because it would strengthen the quarians, then I fail to see why this argument cannot also be made for why the quarians would try and take their homeworld back for the Reaper war.


But they are willing to give them Rannoch provided they no longer want to kill them.  Legion flat out says they need to see more data before peace can be achieved because the Quarians attack 100% of the time when they think they can win.  Xen creates a weapon and they attack keeping their perfect record.  In the end peace is only achieved because Shep tells them about the Reaper Code and so the Quarians are more open to peace because they know they can't win.

The Quarians know Shep, Tali and Legion were living together and they never try to turn that into peace.  They could have asked Shep to go to the PV and Tali basically says when Shep asks her why she didn't tell him that she didn't want to bother him because he had bigger problems (attack on Earth).  So instead they go to war.

It makes no sense Crono.  If you are going to launch a war, you have an obligation to exhaust all other options first.  You and I both know the Quarians didn't do that which is why Quarian supporters always fall back on well why should they trust the Geth or why didn't the Geth reach out.  Well no one said they should trust the Geth.  Whether you trust them or not is irrelevant.  You are about to strap guns to liveships your children live and sleep in so you can take the chance and ask Shep to get involved.  It is absurd to use that as an excuse when the alternative is basically to send your children to war.

Modifié par remydat, 08 avril 2013 - 01:29 .


#4091
silverexile17s

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Phatose wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

So, yes, the geth's Dyson Swarm would have absorbed all the energy from the Tikkun star. There would be light, but that's just illumination. There would be no solar energy carried in that light. Like expunging all the calcium from a glass of milk - you still have something in the glass, but all the nutriants are gone from it. The loss of solar energy from the Dyson Swarm's completeion would have killed all the plant life. Also, solar energy is what gives sunlight it's "heat" - it's the reason sunlight makes you feel hot if you stand in it too long. Take away the energy, and there is no heat getting to the world - temperatures would drop. So not only would it devestate the planet's ecology, but it would plunge the once-arid world into an ice age.


There is no such thing as de-energized light.  Light isn't something that carries energy, light *is* energy.  If light is reaching the planet, then not all of the solar energy is being captured.

Not that it's really a big deal to let some of that energy escape, especially considering how much lost energy that actually entails.  Earth for example, is powered nearly in it's entirety by the sun.  The actual percentage of the suns output that reaches earth?  .000000045%

Rannoch is closer to Tikkun then earth is to Sol, but we're still talking billionths of a percent. 

WRONG. Solar energy is stored in sunlight in the form of heat and UV raidiation. De-energixed light IS real, because it already happens EVERY DAY. When sunlight goes through the ozone, some of the solar energy is siphoned away. Without the ozone, the solar energy and radiation would be much more intense.  This stuff isn't hard to look up.

And the light would be nothing but just that - light. No heat to it, no energy, no UV rays. Just the illumination of the star.
And if the complete total of the star's energy output is being actively siphoned, that number of energy drops exponentally. These sattlites are ment to completely blanket Rannoch's star. Energy draw from all sides.
And being a desert world, losing the primary mammals that supported the ecosystem - the quarians - undoubtedly hurt Rannoch's ecology as is. Losing the solar energy output, and the heat it carries, would devestate Rannoch's plant life in addition to global cooling from lack of heat/UV rays.

#4092
silverexile17s

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Wayning_Star wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Shepard probably got the idea the Reaper code was safe when he went inside the Geth consensus, saw that "Reaper code" was basically bright orange blocks, and shot it, thus managing to free an entire server off Geth from Reaper control in a half hour.


Well, Shep does have a little "reaper code"  of his/her own..Cerberus implants' n all..Posted Image

I don't think Shep's implants are Reaper Tech. They look nothing like any Reaper Tech ever shown.
And I think that the point was that Legion's "combat software" was constructed by Legion from the Reaper code he already has inside him.

#4093
remydat

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silverexile17s wrote...

1. Again, "we need a world to shelter our noncombatents while we do it." Koris is still clinging to the idea that somewhere out there, a world that matches Rannoch is going to fall right into their laps. Koris is an idealist. That's not a bad thing, but banking everything on blind hope can only go so far. As for Tali, it's because she's friends with Legion, and after what happened with her father, she's grown tired of the mutiual distrust from both sides. She now wants a world where geth and quarians co-habitate, a view that Koris shares. And Koris is the only one willing to take Legion's word on blind faith. None of the other Admirals are willing to do anything without evidence. Think of Koris as the quarian version of Anderson on the Council - willing to trust Tali on faith that she knows what she's doing. But still different, in that Anderson had Kaiden/Ashley confirm your claims first. Koris is again, an idealist, which is risky when 17 million hang in the balance. You don't screw around with an entire races future unless you have hard proof to back up the action your taking.

2. It STILL was no threat to them. Look at Haestrom. They didn't buldoze the ruins on that world for construction. Why did they need to do so for Rannoch's Ancestor Archives? What was gained?

3. Geth don't need bodies, remember? Testing it on geth programs contained within an isolated server is just as effective - she likely learned from Rael's mistake of giving them bodies. One server housing enough programs to pilot a ship. If that is effective, she moves on to work on two servers. Then three. Then finally, field testing. As a viral weapon, it can be used by ANY SHIP, meaning that one quarians ship can disable several geth ships with this weapon. Field test being sucessful, she would move to the coup de' grace  - active use in war. Remember, Xen was developing this  weapon for at least 5 months following ME2 - more then enough time to garuntee it's functionality, and get at least one field test. And then the last month before ME3 was spent voting on weather to go to war, and then arming all ships for the invasion when the majority vote came out as "yes."


1.  Right so it is better to strap guns to ships your kids live in and send them to war than take the chance of Shep, Legion and Tali talking about peace?  It is an absurd position Silver.  If I had a kid then before I send him to war, I will talk to whoever I need to talk to whether I trust them or not.  Trust is irrelevant when the alternative is my kid being put in harm's way.  

2.  Haelstrom was a base.  There is nothing on Haelstrom that is non-military in nature as far as I can tell.  The sun destroys shields so you need shelter.  Or did I miss a well preserved library?

3.  It still does not prove it can work on a large scale.  It still does not prove that the Geth can't come up with a countermeasure.  She did not attack the Consensus who when combined have ridiculous processing power so there is no way to prove the Geth won't develop a counter-measure because those units as Shep says aren't more more intelligent than an animal.  The Geth's power is the Consensus and the weapon was not tested on it.

#4094
Wayning_Star

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silverexile17s wrote...

Phatose wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

So, yes, the geth's Dyson Swarm would have absorbed all the energy from the Tikkun star. There would be light, but that's just illumination. There would be no solar energy carried in that light. Like expunging all the calcium from a glass of milk - you still have something in the glass, but all the nutriants are gone from it. The loss of solar energy from the Dyson Swarm's completeion would have killed all the plant life. Also, solar energy is what gives sunlight it's "heat" - it's the reason sunlight makes you feel hot if you stand in it too long. Take away the energy, and there is no heat getting to the world - temperatures would drop. So not only would it devestate the planet's ecology, but it would plunge the once-arid world into an ice age.


There is no such thing as de-energized light.  Light isn't something that carries energy, light *is* energy.  If light is reaching the planet, then not all of the solar energy is being captured.

Not that it's really a big deal to let some of that energy escape, especially considering how much lost energy that actually entails.  Earth for example, is powered nearly in it's entirety by the sun.  The actual percentage of the suns output that reaches earth?  .000000045%

Rannoch is closer to Tikkun then earth is to Sol, but we're still talking billionths of a percent. 

WRONG. Solar energy is stored in sunlight in the form of heat and UV raidiation. De-energixed light IS real, because it already happens EVERY DAY. When sunlight goes through the ozone, some of the solar energy is siphoned away. Without the ozone, the solar energy and radiation would be much more intense.  This stuff isn't hard to look up.

And the light would be nothing but just that - light. No heat to it, no energy, no UV rays. Just the illumination of the star.
And if the complete total of the star's energy output is being actively siphoned, that number of energy drops exponentally. These sattlites are ment to completely blanket Rannoch's star. Energy draw from all sides.
And being a desert world, losing the primary mammals that supported the ecosystem - the quarians - undoubtedly hurt Rannoch's ecology as is. Losing the solar energy output, and the heat it carries, would devestate Rannoch's plant life in addition to global cooling from lack of heat/UV rays.


I don't get that the Geth are to build their home in the Quarian system though? They're outside the system in the veil? They wouldn't do that, Legion would of known of it and the codex says nothing about it? Where did you get that info?

Just curious.

#4095
CronoDragoon

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remydat wrote...
It makes no sense Crono.  If you are going to launch a war, you have an obligation to exhaust all other options first.  You and I both know the Quarians didn't do that which is why Quarian supporters always fall back on well why should they trust the Geth or why didn't the Geth reach out.  Well no one said they should trust the Geth. Whether you trust them or not is irrelevant.  You are about to strap guns to liveships your children live and sleep in so you can take the chance and ask Shep to get involved.  It is absurd to use that as an excuse when the alternative is basically to send your children to war.


Your argument hinges on the idea that continuing to occupy Rannoch, a homeworld taken by conquest from another race and thus ripe with reasons for attack, with your position completely exposed and known, is a better situation for the geth than vacating the area as an olive branch. 

#4096
silverexile17s

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

If the planet wasn't important to them, why did they build the web in Tikkun? Why couldn't they build it elsewhere? Okay holding Rannoch was nice, but building the web there was not. They're not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Giving up Rannoch, and letting the Quarians resettle, and then LEAVING THE SYSTEM probably would have been the best idea, but we know how things go. The Quarians probably would have stayed on Rannoch and stayed out of the Geth's way. Then the Heretics would have attacked with nukes.

The geth aready had several systems to play with. There was the Far Rim, with Haestrom, and one other system. There were several worlds in the Hades Nexus they were near. The geth also had the Sentry Omega (Virmire's cluster) and The Pheniox Massing (Heretic Headquarters). Okay, those last two systems, the Heretics took with them after they split, but they DID have other options. An orange star is an older star, and has a lower output then say, a yellow star. Why not find one of those - I'm sure at least one of the quarian systems had a star just as suitble.

images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120502081343/masseffect/fr/images/9/92/Mass_Effect_3_Galaxy_Map.jpg
This is a map of the galaxy, showing which systems are connected to which, and accessible from where.  Systems collored in purple are geth-controled. Also, we know from playing ME2 that the Hades Nexus was being encrouched on, although weather that's Heretic-caused isn't specified.

#4097
silverexile17s

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Wayning_Star wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Phatose wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

So, yes, the geth's Dyson Swarm would have absorbed all the energy from the Tikkun star. There would be light, but that's just illumination. There would be no solar energy carried in that light. Like expunging all the calcium from a glass of milk - you still have something in the glass, but all the nutriants are gone from it. The loss of solar energy from the Dyson Swarm's completeion would have killed all the plant life. Also, solar energy is what gives sunlight it's "heat" - it's the reason sunlight makes you feel hot if you stand in it too long. Take away the energy, and there is no heat getting to the world - temperatures would drop. So not only would it devestate the planet's ecology, but it would plunge the once-arid world into an ice age.


There is no such thing as de-energized light.  Light isn't something that carries energy, light *is* energy.  If light is reaching the planet, then not all of the solar energy is being captured.

Not that it's really a big deal to let some of that energy escape, especially considering how much lost energy that actually entails.  Earth for example, is powered nearly in it's entirety by the sun.  The actual percentage of the suns output that reaches earth?  .000000045%

Rannoch is closer to Tikkun then earth is to Sol, but we're still talking billionths of a percent. 

WRONG. Solar energy is stored in sunlight in the form of heat and UV raidiation. De-energixed light IS real, because it already happens EVERY DAY. When sunlight goes through the ozone, some of the solar energy is siphoned away. Without the ozone, the solar energy and radiation would be much more intense.  This stuff isn't hard to look up.

And the light would be nothing but just that - light. No heat to it, no energy, no UV rays. Just the illumination of the star.
And if the complete total of the star's energy output is being actively siphoned, that number of energy drops exponentally. These sattlites are ment to completely blanket Rannoch's star. Energy draw from all sides.
And being a desert world, losing the primary mammals that supported the ecosystem - the quarians - undoubtedly hurt Rannoch's ecology as is. Losing the solar energy output, and the heat it carries, would devestate Rannoch's plant life in addition to global cooling from lack of heat/UV rays.


I don't get that the Geth are to build their home in the Quarian system though? They're outside the system in the veil? They wouldn't do that, Legion would of known of it and the codex says nothing about it? Where did you get that info?

Just curious.

The geth are building this thing around Rannoch's star, Tikkun. And I looked up dyson spheres for info on their effects. Although, since we have no actuall dyson spheres in real-life, most effects are based on theroetical proportions, and probable risks/enviromental damages.

#4098
Wayning_Star

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CronoDragoon wrote...

remydat wrote...
It makes no sense Crono.  If you are going to launch a war, you have an obligation to exhaust all other options first.  You and I both know the Quarians didn't do that which is why Quarian supporters always fall back on well why should they trust the Geth or why didn't the Geth reach out.  Well no one said they should trust the Geth. Whether you trust them or not is irrelevant.  You are about to strap guns to liveships your children live and sleep in so you can take the chance and ask Shep to get involved.  It is absurd to use that as an excuse when the alternative is basically to send your children to war.


Your argument hinges on the idea that continuing to occupy Rannoch, a homeworld taken by conquest from another race and thus ripe with reasons for attack, with your position completely exposed and known, is a better situation for the geth than vacating the area as an olive branch. 


I'd suspect that the Alliance would notice a dyson anything being assemble 'in universe' as that would take a lot of energy, more than the Geth have to do in any cogent time frame. Peace was inevitable between them anyway, as the Geth aren't even IN the MEU proper... The Quarians are at a disadvantage, prone to peace with their creation.

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#4099
Eckswhyzed

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silverexile17s wrote...

Phatose wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

So, yes, the geth's Dyson Swarm would have absorbed all the energy from the Tikkun star. There would be light, but that's just illumination. There would be no solar energy carried in that light. Like expunging all the calcium from a glass of milk - you still have something in the glass, but all the nutriants are gone from it. The loss of solar energy from the Dyson Swarm's completeion would have killed all the plant life. Also, solar energy is what gives sunlight it's "heat" - it's the reason sunlight makes you feel hot if you stand in it too long. Take away the energy, and there is no heat getting to the world - temperatures would drop. So not only would it devestate the planet's ecology, but it would plunge the once-arid world into an ice age.


There is no such thing as de-energized light.  Light isn't something that carries energy, light *is* energy.  If light is reaching the planet, then not all of the solar energy is being captured.

Not that it's really a big deal to let some of that energy escape, especially considering how much lost energy that actually entails.  Earth for example, is powered nearly in it's entirety by the sun.  The actual percentage of the suns output that reaches earth?  .000000045%

Rannoch is closer to Tikkun then earth is to Sol, but we're still talking billionths of a percent. 

WRONG. Solar energy is stored in sunlight in the form of heat and UV raidiation. De-energixed light IS real, because it already happens EVERY DAY. When sunlight goes through the ozone, some of the solar energy is siphoned away. Without the ozone, the solar energy and radiation would be much more intense.  This stuff isn't hard to look up.

And the light would be nothing but just that - light. No heat to it, no energy, no UV rays. Just the illumination of the star.
And if the complete total of the star's energy output is being actively siphoned, that number of energy drops exponentally. These sattlites are ment to completely blanket Rannoch's star. Energy draw from all sides.
And being a desert world, losing the primary mammals that supported the ecosystem - the quarians - undoubtedly hurt Rannoch's ecology as is. Losing the solar energy output, and the heat it carries, would devestate Rannoch's plant life in addition to global cooling from lack of heat/UV rays.


Oh dear, it seems no-one understands what a Dyson Swarm is.

Abosrbing 100% of a star's energy with a solid Dyson shell is hugely impractical. A far better solution is a Dyson Swarm, i.e. a swarm of satellites (oh, look at the geth debris field).

I can find no source that states the Geth wish to harness 100% of the star's energy. It would work against their efforts to restore Rannoch's ecology....

#4100
remydat

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Dyson swarm
As noted below, such a cloud of collectors would alter the light emitted by the star system. However, the disruption compared to a star's overall natural emitted spectrum would most likely be too small to be noticed on Earth

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Dyson_Sphere

Based on the above while a Dyson Swarm alter's the light emitted by a star system, the disruption is to small to be noticed.  I am no science guy but I will ask a simple question.  Does it make sense for the Geth to be caretakers of Rannoch while simulataneously building something that would destroy the eco-system?

So unless Bioware said it in the game, this speculation seems to be just that speculation.  More likely they would simply create a Dyson Swarm that does not wreck Rannoch's ecosystem.  

Modifié par remydat, 08 avril 2013 - 01:51 .