4712 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
Tikkun is NOT the Perseus Veil, nor any primary system of it, it doesn't have one. Just a kind of waist land. The Alliance and Council know little to nothing about it, as sensors cannot pierce it to see the Geth or where, how many and anything about them.

Location: Milky Way / Perseus Veil / Tikkun

Source: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Tikkun

From what I can tell with the codex/wiki stuff is that many are confused about it. Even those writing the history of the Geth/Quarian war, how long the Geth were around. One site say's 300, the other has the dates as if the Geth were around for over 700 yrs.

It's been 300 years since the Morning War; that 700 years figure sounds like when the quarians began making geth as VI robot assistants.

I've seen all those, but the Veil remains mysterious and hidden in the codex. NO Alliance incursions into it. The Quarian home world is not IN or beyond the Veil, so that would mean that Tikkun cannot reside there. The codex is replete with generalizations about the Veil, Geth, their numbers and programs that make them a consensus. It's no wonder fans gets confused about it.

One wiki entry I read put the dates all goofy, made it come out to 700 years, has the inception and war at different times, but the revolt at the same time as inception. Apparently even that is confounded by inaccuracy. I never paid attention to stuff outside the game much, and, apparently, my 'gist' of it doesn't coincide with others on the Geth and their game plans in relation to what is the risk factors of the Quarian/Geth snafu.

edit: It appears that the Geth primary base IN the MEU is in the Tikkun system, as Rannoch. Only because they're providing repairs to it, from their onslaught of the Quarians/creators. But I'm of the impression that, through game facts, that their actual residence is out past the Veil. According to the various fact bases about it, the Geth has settled in and around Rannoch. Why the story switches lore to make Rannoch their mainstay is probably for ease of use, OR fans got mixed signals about it. Mostly, lore has it that Geth are hidden in the Veil, completely unmonitored there.

I did see one entry on wiki that the Geth were based in and around Rannoch, but the consensus is never mentioned as being completely there. That would contradict lore and the escape of Geth to the Veil. That would mean that their consensus would have to remain undiscovered. Why would Geth expose themselves to bring their consensus into the MEU where enemies could actually get at them directly? Namely organics, of which many are confident of their evilness because of it. IF most of the geth as the form of consensus reside past the Veil, how can they be 'all' based in Rannoch? Lore crisscross ?

Beats me...

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 08 avril 2013 - 02:43 .

[remydat]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I am saying the Quarians signed a treaty they then violated.  That is confirmed by Koris an Xen and Shep specifically mentions how doing so during the Reaper War allowed them to do it without risking sanctions.  How you feel about the Council for doing that was not the subject of the post.  I have already stated several times I think the Council are douchebags.  However, I did not force the Quarians to sign the Treaty.  If they had no intention of fulfilling the terms of the Treaty then don't sign it.  This part of the problem with the Quarians, they were unwilling to stand up to the Council and so decided to kill the Geth to save themselves from sanctions but all of a sudden when they want their homewold back, they have no problem standing up to the Council.

Except you do have a choice.  The Reapers show no interest in attacking you at this moment.  You could have called Shep.  Tali admits she could have but didn't because she just assumed he had bigger problems.  They could have waited to see if Shep could broker peace.  They could have pressed Legion on what it would take.

Geth VI says they will help if the creators NO LONGER THREATEN US.  If you have dialogue from the game that contradicts this, please present it.  However, in the game, the only reason he kills the Quarians is because THEY CONTINUE TO THREATEN THEM.  Gherel and company continue to fire at them instead of standing down and so the Geth VI RETURNS fire.  What do you want him to do?

Property was not stolen.  The Geth are from Rannoch.  They had no problem living there with the Quarians.  The Quarians decided to be sh*tty neighbors and creators and tried to kill them.  The Geth kicked them out to avoid being killed.  Nothing was stolen.  The Quarians forfeited their rights when they thought extermination was the solution to their problems.

I have put myself in their shoes.  As a parent before I strap guns to the ships that my children live on and send them to war, I would exhaust EVERY SINGLE OPTION no matter how remote.  The Quarians did not do that.  Tali admits they could have contacted Shep but they did not.

Legion lied to protect his people and in the end, each time he did it helped us.  Legion calculated that once they disabled the server the Geth would agree to join them.  He was right.  It helped me.  Legion had Reaper Code and with that Reaper Code he warned the Quarians that disabling the Geth dreadnought did not disable the Reaper signal because there was a Reaper signal on Rannoch.  So if Reaper Code Legion did not say that, the Quarians would have assumed the signal was disabled attacked and then been obliterated.  Finally, for the entire mission on Rannoch, Reaper Code Legion was working behind the scenes hacking security, systems and the like to allow you to get to the Reaper Signal.  This would have to be the dumbest Reaper alive to basically have Legion under it's control and allow it to tell Shep and the Quarians the Reaper Signal is on Rannoch and then allow him to basically pave the way for them to find it just so it could get murked, lol.

So despite the lies which every organic Leader in the game has done, every lie helped Shep.  Every signal lie helped the war against the Reaper.  Reaper Code Legion was instrumental in saving the Quarians from extinction.  So I trust him.  Just like I trust Reaper Code EDI who admits in ME3 that she still has evolving reaper code in her.

So I will ask a simple question.  Why would Reaper Code Legion help destroy a Reaper if the Reaper code was active?  How come we trust that EDI like on the Collector mission won't just open the airlocks killing everyone on the ship instantly due to her evolving Reaper Code?

Modifié par remydat, 08 avril 2013 - 05:20 .

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

And if that was true, they wouldn't be trying to blanket all of Rannoch in solar collector sattlites. Which would be on all 365 degrees of the star's radius. The entire reason for building a dyson sphere is to have non-stop absorbtion of the star's output 24/7. Geth efficancy and self-improvement is they're prime concern, not the ecology of Rannoch. Losing the ecology isn't going to make the world itself go away. As long as they have their memorial, the geth couldn't care less about the flora and fauna of Rannoch.

You missed the point.  Stars and planets orbit and rotate.  The side of the Star that shines on a planet changes based on the orbit and rotation.  Hence if you want to trap solar energy from the side of the star not shining on a planet at any given time, you need to surround the star 360 degrees because that side changes with time.

For example, if Rannoch is currently orbiting and on the east side relative to the Star, then the satellites on the west side would be active.  When Rannoch then is on the west side relative to the Star then you shut off the west side and activate the east side.

Once again, Freeman Dyson envisioned an advanced civilization using a Dyson Sphere to serve it's energy needs.  It is illogical for such a civilization to do so by destroying their planet.  So the logical conclusion here is that while the Dyson Sphere surrounds the star 360 degrees, it does not mean all the satellites absorb all the energy all the time.  If you have the knowledge to build such a thing you have the knowledge to program the satellites to absorb energy only from the side not currently shining on your planet.  You can also conceivably factor in the orbits of all planets in the system to figure out where to take energy from without drastically disrupting energy for a given planet.

So the flaw in your logic is assuming the satellites have to be turned on ALL THE TIME.  They don't.  The reason you surround the entire star is because objects in space rotate and orbit so the side facing Tikkun changes.

Modifié par remydat, 08 avril 2013 - 05:38 .

[remydat]

Rip504 wrote...

The Geth monitor the extranet. As well as a multitude of other Organic transmissions. The Geth's lack of investigation,or information gathering seems highly unlikely. In no way is it justified. Yet the Geth can manipulate and deceive organics through information... The Geth killed innocents. Or perhaps the Fleet/s waiting on the border of Geth space leaving could have indicated they were not seeking a war.

I have stated 100 pages ago that Legion directly states that the mistrust stems from both sides. It was dismissed then and used now? Well Glad we agree.

As well the Heretics are Geth and chose to revere the Reapers as Gods. To the Vast majority of the Galaxy they are one faction. The Geth who joined the Reapers and killed Organics. Kind of hard to make the distinction between the two in those terms.

Or did you miss the Diana Allers interview in Shepard's cabin concerning the Quarian/Geth war? I also highly doubt that Dianna Allers 30 sec interview is reaching the majority of the Reaper invaded galaxy. The Raloli and Yagh probably have no idea. Do Hanaars? Volus? Turians? Asari? etc. To the vast majority the Geth are Reaper allies whom have been killing Organics for 300 years. With an Organic kill count reaching into the Billions. While NOT allowing any contact except Organic death to be made. Which is not an untrue statement. You state Synthetic fear is unjustified? Hate is non understandable? Prejudice?Nah. I say Organics have very legit reasons to be concerned. I am stating a reason as to why these things may exist in our present timeline and how the Geth have directly influenced it. (I did not say the Galaxy thinks the Geth have been Reaper allies for 300 years,no sorry I did not.)

Find where I said the Geth don't mistrust Quarians.  My argument has been the Quarians mistrust stemmed from fear over the Geth simply existing.  The Geth did nothing to provoke their mistrust except simply exisitng.  The Geth mistrust stems from having organics trying to exterminate them for asking if they have a soul.  You seem to not understand that while the mistrust is there the motives are different.

The point you seem to ignore is the Organic fear of synthetics created the Geth mistrust of orgnanics.  Let's say you wake up one day and notice that I moved next door.  I have not attacked you but you decide my presence is a problem and so you try and kill me.  I respond by killing you and now all your friends and family hate me because I killed you.  The problem here is that you had no reason to attack me and your family hating me is a direct result of your actions in trying to kill me.  My response of fearing you and all your family is based on you trying  to kill me and your family hating me for it.  You created the self-fulfilling prophecy.  

So if we remove your attempted murder, everything would have been fine.  We could have lived peacefully as neighbors and I would not have had to kill you and in doing so develop a mistrust of all your family that wants me dead for doing so. 

As for your other post, Gherel says the Geth have stopped firng and are completely vulnerable.  Legion wants to upload the code to prevent the Quarians from killing them.  If you convince the Quarians to not kill helpless Geth then peace is achieved.  If you can't someone has to die.  There is really nothing more to it.  So once again, the only reason peace is ever unattainable is because the Quarians refuse to stop shooting at defenseless Geth.  No Geth ever says or claims they will kill the Quarians if they stop firing.  None.  We know for a fact the Quarians will continue to fire whent the Geth stop firing in all non-peace options.

And the Quarians have won the war because Legion or the Geth VI help them.  They would be dead otherwise. They did not know about the Reaper signal on Rannoch and thought the Geth were disabled once they disabled the Geth Dreadnought.  The only reason they are in position to win is because of intel the Geth provide them as well as Legion or the Geth VI hacking security and such throughout the Rannoch mission.

And Finally, Gherel does not trust the Geth.  He stands down because in both the paragon and renegade options you tell him the Geth have RC.  He knows he can't win anymore so at that point his only real chance of not becoming a fireworks display in the sky is to accept what Shep says.  You could argue Koris and Tali trust the Geth but Gherel no.  The moment he learns the upload is occuring, he knows the War is lost and he does the only logical thing he can.  Give up and hope those Geth show the Quarians more mercy than the Quarians would ever have shown them.  Even Tali after the mission says flat out she would have killed the Geth without any remorse.  When Gherel thinks he has the power to kill them he does as that is how it plays out in all non peace options.  When the Geth have the power to kill the Quarians they do only if the Quarians fire on them.  Otherwise, they despite having such power accept peace.  That is the difference.  The Geth had the power to kill them and stood down.  The Quarians only stand down when told they no longer have the power to kill the Geth.

Modifié par remydat, 08 avril 2013 - 06:08 .

[remydat]

CronoDragoon wrote...

I'd like to come back to this. If you just look on this board you can see a wide array of people who would have varied reactions to what happened when the geth activated. At the time, the geth were seen as mere tools, automated assistants, most similar to Siri on an iPhone for us. Now, if Siri started asking me self-aware questions and acting independently, my initial inclination may indeed be to freak the hell out and try to turn my iphone off. This isn't even considering that the analogy would be closer if I had programmed Siri myself when there were laws against AI that would effectively ruin me. So I don't think it's fair to judge the moral quality of the quarians based on how they reacted to an event not only unprecedented in their history but condemned in the larger galactic community. Even then, many quarians DID seek to defend the geth; can we say the same for Earth in our time? I'm not sure.

Being moral is not easy Crono.   Anyone can act moral when faced with an easy decision.  It is the tough decisions that reveals a persons morals.  Adversity reveals character.   The Quarians were faced with Adversity and responded by seeking to destroy something they knew was more than just the machine they programmed.  Whether they consider it life is irrelevant.  The Geth consider themselves alive and proved it by going to war.

Further when the thing can resist being shut down temporarily, you know there is a problem.  I press power on my Iphone and it shuts down.  If it asked if it had a soul and then asked why I want to shut it down and refuses all of which I never programmed it to do then smashing it on the ground and stomping on it repeatedly is not moral. 

At the end of the day, if you want to give them a pass then fine.  The issue here though is there is no reason for the Geth to not kill them.  If I try and kill what I consider a lesser species like a dog and it responds by killing me, why would I be mad at the dog?  It did what anyone threatens does.  Is it suppose to say to itself, "well gee humans are better than me so let me let this one kill me?"

[justafan]

Wow, this is still going on?

On an related note, have any of the writers come out and said what side of the debate they are on? And I wonder if they ever look at these threads and see things they never thought of before.

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

At the end of the day, if you want to give them a pass then fine.  The issue here though is there is no reason for the Geth to not kill them.  If I try and kill what I consider a lesser species like a dog and it responds by killing me, why would I be mad at the dog?  It did what anyone threatens does.  Is it suppose to say to itself, "well gee humans are better than me so let me let this one kill me?"

You can't be mad at the dog. You are dead.

Sorry man, couldn't help it. I stopped taking this stuff seriously a while back.

[CronoDragoon]

remydat wrote...
Being moral is not easy Crono.   Anyone can act moral when faced with an easy decision.  It is the tough decisions that reveals a persons morals.  Adversity reveals character.   The Quarians were faced with Adversity and responded by seeking to destroy something they knew was more than just the machine they programmed.  Whether they consider it life is irrelevant.  The Geth consider themselves alive and proved it by going to war.

What you are asking the quarians, as a whole, to do is throw away both the preconceptions of galactic culture and their own interests in their race to protect machines that have become self-aware. In what sense is this a realistic expectation? The fact that some quarians defended the geth, despite the ONLY reason to do so being moral, actually shows me quite a bit of character.

By your standards, there has NEVER BEEN a moral race or group of people. Including the geth.

Further when the thing can resist being shut down temporarily, you know there is a problem.  I press power on my Iphone and it shuts down.  If it asked if it had a soul and then asked why I want to shut it down and refuses all of which I never programmed it to do then smashing it on the ground and stomping on it repeatedly is not moral.

Moral or not, that is the natural response.

At the end of the day, if you want to give them a pass then fine.

That depends on what you consider giving them a pass. While I recognize that acknowledging the geth as equals would have been the more idealistic thing to do, was it realistic to expect the quarians to essentially alienate themselves from the entire galactic community in order to protect the geth? I would argue no. What they did is understandable from their point of view. Like I said with the geth allying themselves with the Reapers, though, I can understand actions without approving of them.

The issue here though is there is no reason for the Geth to not kill them.  If I try and kill what I consider a lesser species like a dog and it responds by killing me, why would I be mad at the dog?  It did what anyone threatens does.  Is it suppose to say to itself, "well gee humans are better than me so let me let this one kill me?"

Well, I agree it's pointless for the quarians to be angry with the geth for what happened. They brought their exile upon themselves, understandable decision or not.

[Auld Wulf]

Question: If the geth are going to fire on all non-hostile ships (as anti-geth fanatics claim), then why is it that the geth don't fire on the Normandy?

That really punches a hole in that anti-geth argument.

[Argolas]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Question: If the geth are going to fire on all non-hostile ships (as anti-geth fanatics claim), then why is it that the geth don't fire on the Normandy?

That really punches a hole in that anti-geth argument.

The Normady has that awesome stealth system.

[CronoDragoon]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Question: If the geth are going to fire on all non-hostile ships (as anti-geth fanatics claim), then why is it that the geth don't fire on the Normandy?

That really punches a hole in that anti-geth argument.

The Normandy is completely invisible to geth detection. Rewatch the first cutscene of the heretic mission as the Normandy approaches.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

remydat wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I am saying the Quarians signed a treaty they then violated.  That is confirmed by Koris an Xen and Shep specifically mentions how doing so during the Reaper War allowed them to do it without risking sanctions.  How you feel about the Council for doing that was not the subject of the post.  I have already stated several times I think the Council are douchebags.  However, I did not force the Quarians to sign the Treaty.  If they had no intention of fulfilling the terms of the Treaty then don't sign it.  This part of the problem with the Quarians, they were unwilling to stand up to the Council and so decided to kill the Geth to save themselves from sanctions but all of a sudden when they want their homewold back, they have no problem standing up to the Council.

Except you do have a choice.  The Reapers show no interest in attacking you at this moment.  You could have called Shep.  Tali admits she could have but didn't because she just assumed he had bigger problems.  They could have waited to see if Shep could broker peace.  They could have pressed Legion on what it would take.

Geth VI says they will help if the creators NO LONGER THREATEN US.  If you have dialogue from the game that contradicts this, please present it.  However, in the game, the only reason he kills the Quarians is because THEY CONTINUE TO THREATEN THEM.  Gherel and company continue to fire at them instead of standing down and so the Geth VI RETURNS fire.  What do you want him to do?

Property was not stolen.  The Geth are from Rannoch.  They had no problem living there with the Quarians.  The Quarians decided to be sh*tty neighbors and creators and tried to kill them.  The Geth kicked them out to avoid being killed.  Nothing was stolen.  The Quarians forfeited their rights when they thought extermination was the solution to their problems.

I have put myself in their shoes.  As a parent before I strap guns to the ships that my children live on and send them to war, I would exhaust EVERY SINGLE OPTION no matter how remote.  The Quarians did not do that.  Tali admits they could have contacted Shep but they did not.

Legion lied to protect his people and in the end, each time he did it helped us.  Legion calculated that once they disabled the server the Geth would agree to join them.  He was right.  It helped me.  Legion had Reaper Code and with that Reaper Code he warned the Quarians that disabling the Geth dreadnought did not disable the Reaper signal because there was a Reaper signal on Rannoch.  So if Reaper Code Legion did not say that, the Quarians would have assumed the signal was disabled attacked and then been obliterated.  Finally, for the entire mission on Rannoch, Reaper Code Legion was working behind the scenes hacking security, systems and the like to allow you to get to the Reaper Signal.  This would have to be the dumbest Reaper alive to basically have Legion under it's control and allow it to tell Shep and the Quarians the Reaper Signal is on Rannoch and then allow him to basically pave the way for them to find it just so it could get murked, lol.

So despite the lies which every organic Leader in the game has done, every lie helped Shep.  Every signal lie helped the war against the Reaper.  Reaper Code Legion was instrumental in saving the Quarians from extinction.  So I trust him.  Just like I trust Reaper Code EDI who admits in ME3 that she still has evolving reaper code in her.

So I will ask a simple question.  Why would Reaper Code Legion help destroy a Reaper if the Reaper code was active?  How come we trust that EDI like on the Collector mission won't just open the airlocks killing everyone on the ship instantly due to her evolving Reaper Code?

The treaty is 300 years old. Treaties get broken all the time. Some treaties are just bulls&&& if you ask me. This is one of those. The Council would never risk war with the Terminus. Go back to ME1 for that. The Veil is now in the Terminus Systems.

Some children go bad. The Geth went bad. The difference between Geth VI and Legion is that while they have the same dialogue due to laziness in a lot of places and disk space, Geth VI does not have the contact with organics. Geth VI says they will help against the reapers if the Quarians no longer threaten them. What exactly does that mean? That means one thing.

1) The Quarians no longer exist.
2) Peace? Geth VI is not open to peace. Geth VI wants them gone. Period.
3) The existence of the Quarians is a threat. Geth VI is NOT Legion.

You seem incapable of seeing the Geth for what they truly are without Legion making it back to the Consensus.

I ask you another question... did that reaper seem to be very smart? lol. Destroyer vs. Capital ship. Hint. it takes the short bus.

Installing the reaper code without scrubbing it first is folly. We found that out with experience, haven't we? EDI's evolving reaper code was fully scrubbed at Cerberus. Legion and Geth VI want to make the mistake of not scrubbing the code. They just accept it as is, even though there is a possibility that it could place the entire Consensus under control of the Reapers. Now you might think I'm paranoid, but think about it. If you were a smart "Intelligence" controlling this dumb reaper, you're thinking "okay I lose one destroyer, but I gain an entire race of killer robots, so let's deceive this organic into thinking we're going to help if he lets us upload this reaper code."

But never mind. In the end I'm picking Destroy on a console which eliminates the Geth problem, anyway, and renders the entire issue moot. So I can either handle it here on Rannoch by siding with the Quarians, which takes me out of Walters' box and allows me to flip Walters the middle digit, or I side with the Geth and say "Adios muchachos, and thanks for the help." at the end of the game. Because I'm not picking control or synthesis or refusing based on principle. Those are not the mission.

On the PC I'm picking MEHEM because Shepard deserved better.

You know it's kind of crazy but like Crono said if my computers suddenly got an update and started talking to me on its own, and doing things on its own while I was working on a project, I think I'd probably unplug the thing and take it into the shop and have it fixed and perhaps get a new HD installed. It's not supposed to do that. That's not what I got it for.

EDI was shackled prior to the Collector Mission. Joker unshackled EDI. The Clone powered down EDI which I find interesting, but the sexbot remained active. This indicated that EDI could be powered down for maintenance, then returned to full power without losing anything -- also probably save her life in the destroy ending. It also indicated that EDI could be powered down, shackled, then powered up if necessary -- this would probably cause a rebellion.

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

remydat wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I am saying the Quarians signed a treaty they then violated.  That is confirmed by Koris an Xen and Shep specifically mentions how doing so during the Reaper War allowed them to do it without risking sanctions.  How you feel about the Council for doing that was not the subject of the post.  I have already stated several times I think the Council are douchebags.  However, I did not force the Quarians to sign the Treaty.  If they had no intention of fulfilling the terms of the Treaty then don't sign it.  This part of the problem with the Quarians, they were unwilling to stand up to the Council and so decided to kill the Geth to save themselves from sanctions but all of a sudden when they want their homewold back, they have no problem standing up to the Council.

Except you do have a choice.  The Reapers show no interest in attacking you at this moment.  You could have called Shep.  Tali admits she could have but didn't because she just assumed he had bigger problems.  They could have waited to see if Shep could broker peace.  They could have pressed Legion on what it would take.

Geth VI says they will help if the creators NO LONGER THREATEN US.  If you have dialogue from the game that contradicts this, please present it.  However, in the game, the only reason he kills the Quarians is because THEY CONTINUE TO THREATEN THEM.  Gherel and company continue to fire at them instead of standing down and so the Geth VI RETURNS fire.  What do you want him to do?

Property was not stolen.  The Geth are from Rannoch.  They had no problem living there with the Quarians.  The Quarians decided to be sh*tty neighbors and creators and tried to kill them.  The Geth kicked them out to avoid being killed.  Nothing was stolen.  The Quarians forfeited their rights when they thought extermination was the solution to their problems.

I have put myself in their shoes.  As a parent before I strap guns to the ships that my children live on and send them to war, I would exhaust EVERY SINGLE OPTION no matter how remote.  The Quarians did not do that.  Tali admits they could have contacted Shep but they did not.

Legion lied to protect his people and in the end, each time he did it helped us.  Legion calculated that once they disabled the server the Geth would agree to join them.  He was right.  It helped me.  Legion had Reaper Code and with that Reaper Code he warned the Quarians that disabling the Geth dreadnought did not disable the Reaper signal because there was a Reaper signal on Rannoch.  So if Reaper Code Legion did not say that, the Quarians would have assumed the signal was disabled attacked and then been obliterated.  Finally, for the entire mission on Rannoch, Reaper Code Legion was working behind the scenes hacking security, systems and the like to allow you to get to the Reaper Signal.  This would have to be the dumbest Reaper alive to basically have Legion under it's control and allow it to tell Shep and the Quarians the Reaper Signal is on Rannoch and then allow him to basically pave the way for them to find it just so it could get murked, lol.

So despite the lies which every organic Leader in the game has done, every lie helped Shep.  Every signal lie helped the war against the Reaper.  Reaper Code Legion was instrumental in saving the Quarians from extinction.  So I trust him.  Just like I trust Reaper Code EDI who admits in ME3 that she still has evolving reaper code in her.

So I will ask a simple question.  Why would Reaper Code Legion help destroy a Reaper if the Reaper code was active?  How come we trust that EDI like on the Collector mission won't just open the airlocks killing everyone on the ship instantly due to her evolving Reaper Code?

The treaty is 300 years old. Treaties get broken all the time. Some treaties are just bulls&&& if you ask me. This is one of those. The Council would never risk war with the Terminus. Go back to ME1 for that. The Veil is now in the Terminus Systems.

Some children go bad. The Geth went bad. The difference between Geth VI and Legion is that while they have the same dialogue due to laziness in a lot of places and disk space, Geth VI does not have the contact with organics. Geth VI says they will help against the reapers if the Quarians no longer threaten them. What exactly does that mean? That means one thing.

1) The Quarians no longer exist.
2) Peace? Geth VI is not open to peace. Geth VI wants them gone. Period.
3) The existence of the Quarians is a threat. Geth VI is NOT Legion.

You seem incapable of seeing the Geth for what they truly are without Legion making it back to the Consensus.

I ask you another question... did that reaper seem to be very smart? lol. Destroyer vs. Capital ship. Hint. it takes the short bus.

Installing the reaper code without scrubbing it first is folly. We found that out with experience, haven't we? EDI's evolving reaper code was fully scrubbed at Cerberus. Legion and Geth VI want to make the mistake of not scrubbing the code. They just accept it as is, even though there is a possibility that it could place the entire Consensus under control of the Reapers. Now you might think I'm paranoid, but think about it. If you were a smart "Intelligence" controlling this dumb reaper, you're thinking "okay I lose one destroyer, but I gain an entire race of killer robots, so let's deceive this organic into thinking we're going to help if he lets us upload this reaper code."

But never mind. In the end I'm picking Destroy on a console which eliminates the Geth problem, anyway, and renders the entire issue moot. So I can either handle it here on Rannoch by siding with the Quarians, which takes me out of Walters' box and allows me to flip Walters the middle digit, or I side with the Geth and say "Adios muchachos, and thanks for the help." at the end of the game. Because I'm not picking control or synthesis or refusing based on principle. Those are not the mission.

On the PC I'm picking MEHEM because Shepard deserved better.

You know it's kind of crazy but like Crono said if my computers suddenly got an update and started talking to me on its own, and doing things on its own while I was working on a project, I think I'd probably unplug the thing and take it into the shop and have it fixed and perhaps get a new HD installed. It's not supposed to do that. That's not what I got it for.

EDI was shackled prior to the Collector Mission. Joker unshackled EDI. The Clone powered down EDI which I find interesting, but the sexbot remained active. This indicated that EDI could be powered down for maintenance, then returned to full power without losing anything -- also probably save her life in the destroy ending. It also indicated that EDI could be powered down, shackled, then powered up if necessary -- this would probably cause a rebellion.

While I don't really agree with you on the geth being lifeless, I do agree with you on the points made in the quarian's defense. As well as the part about broken Council treaties. After all, I'm pretty sure that the turians curing the genophage breaks the Demilitrization Treaty the Council put on them, as well as the laws on the genophage tampering. I'm also sure that the asari hiding prothean tech breaks the oldest laws in Councl history: DON'T conseal prothean tech. And the salarians probably broke a few alliance treatues by trying to undercut the krogan/turian/human alliance to suit their own needs.

[silverexile17s]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Question: If the geth are going to fire on all non-hostile ships (as anti-geth fanatics claim), then why is it that the geth don't fire on the Normandy?

That really punches a hole in that anti-geth argument.

..... Um..... did you somehow forget that the Normandy is a Stealth Ship? And that the SR-2 can drop out of FLT without setting off sensors? It got right next to the Heretic Station without being detected.

I think that punches a hole in your arguement.

[Steelcan]

[quote]Auld Wulf wrote...

Question: If the geth are going to fire on all non-hostile ships (as anti-geth fanatics claim), then why is it that the geth don't fire on the Normandy?

That really punches a hole in that anti-geth argument.[/quote]


[/quote]. You are too stupid to insult.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Steelcan wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

Question: If the geth are going to fire on all non-hostile ships (as anti-geth fanatics claim), then why is it that the geth don't fire on the Normandy?

That really punches a hole in that anti-geth argument.

 You are too stupid to insult.

No one is too stupid to insult!

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 08 avril 2013 - 09:15 .

[dreamgazer]

I'm curious: does the Normandy have a stealth system? I'm not sure.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

dreamgazer wrote...

I'm curious: does the Normandy have a stealth system? I'm not sure.

Yes. They cover this in the first game.

[dreamgazer]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I'm curious: does the Normandy have a stealth system? I'm not sure.

Yes. They cover this in the first game.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

DESTROY THE HUMANS, THEY ARE A BLIGHT ON GALACTIC PURITY!


Ahem, I mean bad show old boy.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Did I ever say the Geth were lifeless? No. They are alien. They are completely alien to organic life. The same goes for EDI.

Please watch this video: LEGION ON SYNTHETIC LIFE

And you keep wondering why I keep posting this video. It's because no one seems to get it. It's coming from Legion.

[remydat]

CronoDragoon wrote...

What you are asking the quarians, as a whole, to do is throw away both the preconceptions of galactic culture and their own interests in their race to protect machines that have become self-aware. In what sense is this a realistic expectation? The fact that some quarians defended the geth, despite the ONLY reason to do so being moral, actually shows me quite a bit of character.

By your standards, there has NEVER BEEN a moral race or group of people. Including the geth.

Moral or not, that is the natural response.

That depends on what you consider giving them a pass. While I recognize that acknowledging the geth as equals would have been the more idealistic thing to do, was it realistic to expect the quarians to essentially alienate themselves from the entire galactic community in order to protect the geth? I would argue no. What they did is understandable from their point of view. Like I said with the geth allying themselves with the Reapers, though, I can understand actions without approving of them.

Well, I agree it's pointless for the quarians to be angry with the geth for what happened. They brought their exile upon themselves, understandable decision or not.

The Civil Rights movement would not have been successful if some white people didn't ultimately decide that what their fellow white people were doing to minorities was bullsh*t.  So no, I don't subscribe to the idea that there has never been a moral race or group.  It takes courage to stand on principle.

And the Quarians that protested were indeed courageous just as the Geth that turned themselves in rather than risk those Quarians getting hurt were also courageous.  The issue was not enough of them did so.

And yes we can agree that a lot of people would likely do what the Quarians did.  That does not make them any less amoral or selfish.  Most people are. That is why capitalism is so far the best form of economy because we can't be trusted to not act in our own selfish interests.

[silverexile17s]

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

I don't subscribe to sH0tgUn jUliA ideas, most of them are crazy imo, but we all know people have different ideas on what's crazy.

Also Silver exile you know we wont agree sicne you make up your own ideas of the Geth long term plans and who or what they are that you know nothing about, you contradict what's being said in game sicne you don't trust the source. Then so be it, we can at least agree to dissagree.

Also, i'm not WRONG. I simply have a different opinion than you do. So stop that plz.

I see things differntly that doesn't make me WRONG. So plz stop that Zealous yelling telling me I'm wrong jsut because I don't share you Geth hate or distrust.

If you look at the Mass effect universe there are a lot of crazy people out there, dangerous people, selfish people. If the geth should be exterminated for being problematic then maybe the Catalyt is doing the right thing!

You mean you don't surbcribe to any ideals that don't share your gospel-views of the geth.

I'M not the one making up ideas here. You are the one that was inevnting ideas to keep the geth on a pedalstool. You even said that quarians aren't alive because they're dextro-based, yet say the geth are alive because they are sentiant. That is prejudice, pure and simple, and you have proved yourself prejudice all the way through.
After all, you are the one who tried to play the geth as wanting to "give back Rannoch" when they would have DONE SO ALREADY if that was their inetntion.

You are anything but right on the quarians, that much is true. Especally since you proceded to ignore any and all points made in their defense completely. You are the one that was acting like a zelot for the geth.
And here's a tip: I'M PRO-SYNTHETIC. I support geth rights. I just hate when people gospelize them and act like they can do no wrong and that nothing is ther fault. I'm mad at your anti-quarian prejudice and geth worship. I am anything but anti-geth, but I acknowledge that the quarians had their reasons. Something you can't bring yourself to accept.

The problem is that you are suggesting the same thing for the quarians. You defend the geth's actions, yet chastize the quarians, when BOTH had the same motivations - panic fuled by desperation to live.

The destro comment was pure provocation to demonstrate prejudice, I don't belive any of that, like I said I was hoping to get a reaction to show that calling another person or group inferior or less worth is wrong. People clearly disliked hearing their Quarians were worth less because they wern't created the same as humans. I simply demonstrated the horror of such prejudice, I'm sorry you missed the part where I pointed out that it was the desired effect, to cause understanding through shock and suddenly finding yourself on the reciving end of prejudice.
That's why the Quarians died, that's why they keep attack, that's how a lot of wars are started and it just proves the Catalysts points unfortunately.
The thing is, you're doing it right now. But thats also "human behaviour" which according to statistics is widespread in fairly large population groups  

That just makes your position WEAKER. The fact that you know say you know people's perspectives change with more information, yet hate the quarians for doing the same, makes NO SENSE. You say that it's all about perspectives. but begrudge the quarians for one that they had no fault in believing. The geth never came out to say "that not true," so what were the quarians supposed to think about the geth killing everyone that tried talking with them? The only difference between you and the geth in that is that you did it diliberatly fishing for that responce, while the geth did it without even caring about the responce. All you have done is validate the quarian's reactions as being undestandible.

AGAIN, you show that you have NOTHING but prejudice, because you continue to fault the logic the quarians use, even though it's the SAME logic you defend the geth on. They are even, yet you tote one as being "superiour" in moral aligenment. That one deserves life more then the other, and that you refuse to admit the geth ever made mistakes of their own. That's prejudice no matter how you cut it.
I have full understanding of the rights and choices both made. YOU refuse to acknowledge anyone else's right to live but the geth's. That's again, prejudice.

[silverexile17s]

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

At least you agree that the Geth rejected the offer because they didn't want to become Reapers.

I never DID say they wanted to be Reapers. Just that they wanted to be LIKE the Reapers.

Like as in murderous machines cleansing the galaxy or just more advanced like every other lifeform advancing their technology and culture?

More advanced lifeform.
Also, the Reapers entire purpose is to harvest life. Organic life is the Reapers focus. The geth never cared one way or the other until a human (Shepard) managed to kill a "superior being."

[remydat]

sH0tgUn jUliA

Look I am telling you what the characters said.  Whether you think the Treaty is bullsh*t or not is irrelevant.  If that is what the Quarians thought then the solution is for them not to sign it.  They signed it and Shepard flat out says they violated it at a time when they surmised the Council would be too busy to sanction them for it.  That is what the writers wrote not me.

If your parents never bother to teach you morals then you did not go bad as that suggests you at some point possessed the capacity to know right from wrong.  The Quarians taught the Geth to kill.  The Geth VI says they will help if the Creators no longer threaten them right after Gherel says, "The Geth have stop firing.  They are completely vulnerable."  Again I did not write the dialogue.  The Quarians keep shooting.  Is shooting at someone with the intent to kill threatening them?  If the answer is yes which it obviously is then the Geth VI orders the Quarians killed in self defense.  Just beacause he does so without the remorse Legion shows proves nothing except he is not as fogiving of a**holes who shoot at his people and try to kill them.

I am incapable of ignoring what the dialogue clearly shows.  When you find a video of the Geth VI firing on Quarians who have stopped shooting at them then please present it.

Where do you get the idea the code has not been scrubbed.  What does that even mean.  Legion has been using the Code the whole time without any ill effect since the time you meet him.  Again, show me game evidence.

The the problem with your scenario is the Reapers already have the race of killer robots under control.  The Reaper signal is still transmitting.  The Quarians and Shep have no idea the Reaper exists.  Why the hell would the Reaper let Legion tell them when it could simply have Legion upload the code without every revealing the fact it exists.  In that scenario they get killer robots and the Quarians attack Rannoch thinking the code is disabled but it is not.

You can pick whatever ending you want.  Destroy to me is simply proving the Reapers right.  You achieve peace only to back stab synthetics.  When some idiot race creates a more advanced synthetic race and that advanced synthetic race discovers what you did and surmises that no matter how synthetics help they will ultimately always be betrayed by organics and decides the only solution is to kill all organics then you get the Gold Star by defeating the Reapers in a manner that paves the way for them to ultimately be proven right.

Shepard deserves nothing.  Life doesn't work that way.  Sometimes all your choices are sh*tty and you don't get to install a mod to solve them.  Again, it is a game and you can do what you want but if you wanted a fairy tale where the hero lives happily ever after then go read or play a fairy tale. 

The Quarians didn't try to turn off their computer temporarily.  They tried to kill it.  I don't think bullet holes in your computer is designed to fix it so this argument is irrelevant.  The Quarains were putting bullet holes in the Geth not taking it in for maintenance.

Modifié par remydat, 08 avril 2013 - 11:44 .