4712 réponses à ce sujet

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

The issue has nothing to do with trusting Legion. It has to do with trusting Tali and Shep. Gherrel knows Tali and Shep were on a mission to stop the signal. He knows the intel came from Legion. They do so and then Tali asks you to stand down. Any idiot knows they must be aware of something. He could ask why or is that too sensible for him to do?

The story is such that with the power to completely obliterate the Quarians, the Geth for a second time choose not to. That is why peace is achieved. Gherel stands down because he knows the Quarians can't win and the Quarians are essentially completely at the Geth's mercy. The game is f**king over if Legion wants it to be once the code is uploaded. What does Legion and the Geth do? Instead of trying to kill them he accepts peace. There is not a scenario in the game where the Quarians do the same. If they think they can win (ie Gherrel is not told of the RC) then they try to kill them everything.

And you have to be joking. They were in the middle of a firefight and you expect Legion to just tell everything all at once? Legion makes his entrance on the Normandy and within literally 1 minute of doing so reveals the Reaper Signal on Rannoch all while having RC and so if this thing was controlling him it would make no sense for him to reveal anything.

Yet you think that the quarians are supposed to blindly trust what Legion tells Tali and Shepard. Saren trusted what Soveregin told it, but did that make Soveregin's information trustworthy just because Saren believed it? And Miranda trusted the Illusive Man with her life in ME2 and believed his word, and we all know how THAT turned out ... with him giving her a direct order on the Collector Base to despose of the person she revived, after spending six months trying to convince Shepard TIM would never do that exact thing she was ordered to.
Just because Tali and Shepard trust Legion dosn't instantly make Legion itself trustworthy. Just because Shep and Tali trust Legion doesn't mean anyone else can or should on blind faith.
And no, he DOESN'T know the intel came from Legion. Not as far as I know.
Also, WRONG. Any REAL sensible person would wait for a valid REASON to be given. You don't just stop attacking a major enemy without an actuall reason for it. Sorry, but you CAN'T blame Gerrel for that mess. That's all on Tali and Raan failing to communicate.

Also, LOL, what? Did you NOT see the ending where you side with the geth, and they use their power to completely obliterate the quarians, when they had no reason to be so ruthless? If they could manuver fighters to intercept incoming fire with perfect accuracy, they could disable the liveships without destroying them. But they didn't. NO DIFFERENT then what they did in the Morning War with massive civilian casualties they could have avoided.
Also, Gerrel doens't KNOW the geth want any peace with organics. If he had, he never would have issued a martch to war. When he DOES learn co-existance is possible, he STANDS DOWN. Gerrel has already proven he isn't the power-hungry general you headcannon him to be, so stop trying to paint him as something the game itself shows him NOT to be. He stood down NOT because of the geth's return to full strength, but because he learns that the geth won't shoot.
And AGAIN, wrong. Unless both sides see each-other stop shooting, they will destroy each-other. Again, you try to headcannon "vunerable" equaling "not shootig back."
And again, that's STILL the geth's fault for GIVING themselves the reputation that they are impossible to negotiate with. If the quarians DID think the geth could be negotiated with, they wouldn't have gone to war in the first place.

No. I expect Legion to tell me that the Reapers have an HQ on Rannoch. He told Raan in a single sentance pretty quickly. He had time to exposit geth being under Reaper control for 2 minutes while you hunt for the release for his restraints. You'd think a simple mention of "Reaper base on planet" would come up WITHOUT having to be directly asked about it. Raan had to actively inquire the information. I did NOT see Legion volunteer that info prior to Raan's inquery.

[Eckswhyzed]

silverexile17s wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

@Silverexile

The proportion of the star's energy absorbed by the Dyson Swarm depends on the total surface area of the satellites. I fail to see how the mere existence of the satellites implies that enough of the star's energy is being absorbed to significantly impacy Rannoch's climate.

I also note that no-one other then remydat has noticed Rannoch's Codex entry detailing how the geth are working to preserve Rannoch's ecosystem...

The "Geth Debris Field" description spicifically lists the sattlites being arranged in the pattern of a dyson sphere. That means 365 degree coverage of all angles. There were listed as hundreds. Legion also implies that the megastructure isn't completed, nor will be for a while.
Also, the very principle of Dyson Spheres is to aborb the total output of the star. That's why the orginal concept of the Dyson Sphere was to include Earth inside the damater of the sphere with Sol - because all solar enegry would be trapped inside the sphere's radius.  A Dyson Swarm is easer to make then a solid shell, but it has the same effect - unless the world is inside the radius of the sphere with the star, it will not get any of the solar energy that it had before.
Also, again, preserving ground out of rememberance for the quarians is secondary to their ultimate goal: the Dyson Sphere. When it's done, they won't care about the ecosystem. They will still have their memorial grounds - the plants dying won't change that. If anything, that sphere is proof that the geth never intended to let the quarians, or anyone come to Rannoch.

"The geth placed the ultra-lightweight constructions around the sun to
collect energy, arranged in a vast array known as a Dyson bubble.
Scattered among them are space stations and servers that draw power from
the statites through wireless energy transfer."

-Rannoch Codex entry

"...the geth have acted as caretakers, working to repair the planet's
ecology, restore ancient structures, and cultivate some farmland."

-Rannoch Codex entry


http://en.wikipedia....yson_Bubble.png

Do you see the empty space between the satellites? Constructing a Dyson Bubble does not automatically mean the Geth wish to harness 100% of the star's energy. Why cultivate farmland and repair ecology if you're going to hang onto the world and turn it into an ice ball?

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

You are assuming that the satellites have to all be turned on.  There is nothing preventing you from simply turning off the satellites on whichever side of the Star is currently facing the planet.  Once again, there is nothing preventing you from simply turning off the satellites on whichever side of the Star is currently facing the planet.

That is kind of the point of a satellite.  You can turn them on and off as you see fit.

Having the sattlites on 24/7 is the POINT of building them all around the sun. If the geth really cared about Rannoch, they would have built the sphere around it. Also, the fact that evey cluster of sattlites had it's own server station connected to it, and that power lapse would be FATAL to any geth connected to any cluster of sattlites that powers off. (Geth Debris Field description says that there is a station connected to each "cluster" of sattlites) So, NO, that was NOT the plan. Once again, you are wrong. And AGAIN, the entire point of harnsing the power of a dyson sphere is to have collectors that NEVER turn off.

[S.A.K]

Side with the Geth option is very poorly done anyway. Tali or Raan will just kill Legion when it's clear it's doing the upload. And what do you know, no option to save the Geth. Peace or Quarians.

Modifié par S.A.K, 09 avril 2013 - 05:09 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

ONLY WHEN DIRECTLY ASKED.  When Shepard asked if getting Legion out of the dreadnought would shut down the signal, I don't recall him telling me about that base. Also, the fact that, despite the Reaper signal supposedly being shut down, all the geth on the dreadnought were still hostile. You'd think that was a problem.
Also, the fact that he KEPT this from Shepard, as well as the fact that he used Shepard as a decoy to sneek geth out of the server, is also a problem. I NEVER remembered Tali lying about such things. As representitives of their races, you have to admit that Legion has lied to Shepard alot more then Tali ever did.
Also, lol, What? WHEN did Legion spicifically say those primes were for the war effort? He saved them for the sake of saving them.

Also, the fact that he desceves Shepard at all makes it hard for anyone to trust him. You have to understand the quarians being sceptical of Legion if he's willing to risk Shepard's life like that.
Look at it this way: By putting Shepard in danger without warrning to save his own people, Legion is no different then Gerrel. They both put Shepard at risk to save their own. Legion put Shepard at risk to save an entire "city" of geth, just as Gerrel did to save his entire race from the threat of the dreadnought.
AGAIN, you twist my words. I said I trust him, but that it's completely reasonable for no one else to.

The immediate mission was disabling the Dreadnaught.  It is absurd you want to act like it is a crime he waited until that mission was over and within one minute told them about the signal on Rannoch.

Further, Legion lied by ommission.  He neglected to tell Shep about certain things.  Tali knew her people were starting a war admist a Reaper Invasion.  Tali knew Shep would probably consider that relevant information.  Tali neglected to tell Shepard about this until their a** was getting handed to them.  Tali was perfectly willing to let her people carry out a secret war that violated Treaties the Quarians willingly signed and for which Shep later notes they did it because the Council was too busy dealing with the Reaper War to sanction them.

In short, Legion lied by ommission and those lies helped me and the Quarians.  I repeat they end result was they helped.  Tali neglected to tell me something just like Legion neglected to tell me something but ultimately it resulted in me having to waste f**king time bailing the Quarians out while the Galaxy is burning.  But of course, Tali is a cute fleshy organic so her neglecting to tell me about them starting a f**king war in the middle of a galactic apocalypse is fine.

Maybe I am pragamatic but I don't care if you don't tell me something but it helps me.  I care if you don't tell me something and it hurts me.

WRONG. Since the Dreadnought is getting the signal FROM the base, it is completely relevent. Even more so, because if you had been aware of the signal being streamed from the Rannoch base, you could have tracked it from the dreadnought, and known where to hit that Reaper instantly, so that you could have ended the fight quicker. It would have saved alot of lives on both sides to know where that damn base was so soon. THAT's my point.

No. Legion outright lied about why he was going to that server. He said that server mission was soley to save quarian ships, when in truth, he wanted to do so in order to save geth. 

Also, I remind you that, since the Migrant Fleet isn't usually all that connected to the galaxy, unless it's big information (like Reapers invading), I doubt Tali even knew that Shepard was released from Alliance lock-up. Grunt wasn't aware of Shepard's release on Uttuku, even though Wrex knew long before. Miranda took at least a week to find out, and she's the one with sources everywhere. As far as I know, Shepard being released from Alliance custody wasn't all that public until at least after the Citadel Coup, which by that time, the quarians were already in the Veil fighting the geth. And with public comm bouys mostly destroyed, information is slow to reach the Terminus Systems, where the Migrant Fleet was in the weeks predating the invasion. In  all likelyhood, Tali never knew Shepard was out of lock-up till well after the quarians were committed to their fight. In fact, I don't think Tali knew Shep was free till the quarians sent their invite to talk.

I Repeat - Tali likely DIDN'T know Shepard was out of lock-up till the invite. Shepard's release wasn't publc instantly, and with the public bouys down, information getting all the way out to the Cerberus-monitored Terminus would take a while. So in likelyhood, Tali lilely never heard Shepard was out until after the quarians got entraped by the geth.

So, in TRUTH, Tali is still 3 - 0 in times she DIDN'T lie to Shepard. Also, if anything, quarian lives were just the secondary objective to recovering geth. Legion flat-out tells you that he would never have done this mission if not for the chance that he could persuade the geth in the server to join up.

And what the hell are you talking about? I just said that I trust Legion personally, but do not begrudge others for wanting more information and proof before risking 17 million lives on him.

[silverexile17s]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

@Silverexile

The proportion of the star's energy absorbed by the Dyson Swarm depends on the total surface area of the satellites. I fail to see how the mere existence of the satellites implies that enough of the star's energy is being absorbed to significantly impacy Rannoch's climate.

I also note that no-one other then remydat has noticed Rannoch's Codex entry detailing how the geth are working to preserve Rannoch's ecosystem...

The "Geth Debris Field" description spicifically lists the sattlites being arranged in the pattern of a dyson sphere. That means 365 degree coverage of all angles. There were listed as hundreds. Legion also implies that the megastructure isn't completed, nor will be for a while.
Also, the very principle of Dyson Spheres is to aborb the total output of the star. That's why the orginal concept of the Dyson Sphere was to include Earth inside the damater of the sphere with Sol - because all solar enegry would be trapped inside the sphere's radius.  A Dyson Swarm is easer to make then a solid shell, but it has the same effect - unless the world is inside the radius of the sphere with the star, it will not get any of the solar energy that it had before.
Also, again, preserving ground out of rememberance for the quarians is secondary to their ultimate goal: the Dyson Sphere. When it's done, they won't care about the ecosystem. They will still have their memorial grounds - the plants dying won't change that. If anything, that sphere is proof that the geth never intended to let the quarians, or anyone come to Rannoch.

"The geth placed the ultra-lightweight constructions around the sun to
collect energy, arranged in a vast array known as a Dyson bubble.
Scattered among them are space stations and servers that draw power from
the statites through wireless energy transfer."

-Rannoch Codex entry

"...the geth have acted as caretakers, working to repair the planet's
ecology, restore ancient structures, and cultivate some farmland."

-Rannoch Codex entry


http://en.wikipedia....yson_Bubble.png

Do you see the empty space between the satellites? Constructing a Dyson Bubble does not automatically mean the Geth wish to harness 100% of the star's energy. Why cultivate farmland and repair ecology if you're going to hang onto the world and turn it into an ice ball?

Arranged in  dyson bubble means that you have these clusters on all sides of the star. You don't orginize them UNLESS you intent to take all the solar output of the star.

Also, again, cultivating farmland like that could be seen almost as laying flowers on a grave. Memorim. A tribute, if you will.

And AGAIN, it STILL shares the same function as a Dyson Shell, which is to absorb the total output of the star. Just more cost-effective. But it's the same effect.

[Obadiah]

There is no signal from the Reaper on Rannoch to the Dreadnaught. If there was, the Quarians would have detected it, the same way they found the one from the Dreadnaught to all the Geth.

Only thing Legion knew about the signal from Rannoch was that it was a backup. It didn't know there was a Reaper there.

Modifié par Obadiah, 09 avril 2013 - 05:29 .

[silverexile17s]

Wayning_Star wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Completely wrong. The Consensis is completely based within the megastructure. While it isn't complete to the point where all geth can live on it, it acts as the communciation HQ where all geth commune to form their consensis. Or did you think it was concidental that their inabilaty to form consensis suddenly vanished when it was attcked, because they're panicked state is based on losing their abilaty to commune.
Also, IDK if you notice, but Tikkun IS the Perseus Veil - the primary system in the Veil.

What ever, you're impression of codex is different from mine. My take on it is that Tikkun is closest to the veil, that's why the Geth hid out there. The veil is vast and there are countless Geth there and even more programs. The megastructure contains many, but even if destroyed out right wouldn't destroy the consensus, merely hamper it.

Tikkun is NOT the Perseus Veil, nor any primary system of it, it doesn't have one. Just a kind of waist land. The Alliance and Council know little to nothing about it, as sensors cannot pierce it to see the Geth or where, how many and anything about them.

From what I can tell with the codex/wiki stuff is that many are confused about it. Even those writing the history of the Geth/Quarian war, how long the Geth were around. One site say's 300, the other has the dates as if the Geth were around for over 700 yrs. No where, does it state that the old Quarian home world,now a Geth base of operations is the 'consensus', only a main hub close enough for Geth to slip in and out of the Veil quickly. But even that is fuzzy, lore wise. Head canon is required, apparently

Best bet, imho, is save both the Geth and their creator Quarians, from each other.

Tikkun is inside the Perseus Veil. The Galaxy Map lists it as inside the Perseus Veil. The geth and quarians all say that Rannoch in inside the Perseus Veil. HOW else is there to interpet it?
And again, you think the fact that they threw thinking on the proposition in favor of life was a concidence? The geth communed through the Megastrcture. It was the hub of consensis. When it was attacked, the consensis was shattered, The geth were mostly isolated from each-other, and their collective intelligance dropped because they couldn't network anymore.

It's the system where the Primary Mass Relay is located. That makes it the prime system of the Veil. Just like Earth is the prime sytstem of the Local Cluster. And Palaven is the prime system of the Apian Crest. Or Sur'Kesh in the prime system of the Annos Baisn. Thessia in the prime system of the Athena Nebula. And so-forth. The "Prime System" is the system where the Primary Relay, as well as secondary relays, are located.

Um..... the Codex, and every other source spicifically say nearly "300 years" ago. 290 to be perfectly exact. Also, the megstructure is built with the intent of all geth uploading and communing through it. Right now they all can commune through it, but can't all upload to it. Uploading to it was the reason they wanted it to be a dyson sphere, and not just another comm hub.
Just WHAT the hell are you talking about with "inaccurate" ? Because thus far, EVERY game as diffinitively stated 300 years ago was the Morning War's date.

edit: deleted for errors on my part....

I've found that problem with the geth and Rannoch. The codex and my in game memories are in conflict.

The Geth hide out in the Perseus Veil, but their acquired home world has a relay in it.. makes sense.

Tikkun seems to be on the outer rim, what ever that is, according to the codex, confused me how the PV can not be scanned but now we know that the Quarians home world is there and it's now, and always has been the Geth hide out..with a relay in system. I never realized that, for some reason, it seemed really stupid to have a relay in your hiding place, to avoid others, namely organics from attacking you?

I have to wonder tho, how can there be a relay IN or PAST the PV if it cannot be scanned and isn't explored?

(reminder: be sure to save both Geth and Quarians, broker peace. Don't forget!!)

Geth space is the Perseus Veil. There are likely more systems in the Veil, but the core system is the one with the Relay in it - the Tikkun system. But again, if the geth don't ever intend to leave the Veil, WHY do they need the Megastructure to be in Tikkun. It would make more sense to cordon Tikkun as a memorial system if they didn't want to hurt the system by building a Dyson Sphere.

Also, the geth armada tended to be on guard around it. The geth don't get tired, so the fleets guarding the relay never need to take breaks. Non-stop guarding of a Relay by an army that doesn't know what fatauge means tends to disuade anyone casually trying to attack. The quarians didn't attack until they had a "viral flash-bang" to stun them.

Also, the geth were exposed to have several systems besides the Perseus Veil. The Far Rim, for example. Also, several systems in the Pheniox Massing, Sentry Omega, and Hades Nexus are past the Geth Border. Although, wheather this is True Geth space, or Heretic space, isn't confirmed.
Look at this Galaxy map.
images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120502081343/masseffect/fr/images/9/92/Mass_Effect_3_Galaxy_Map.jpg
The Far Rim and Perseus Veil are certinly Ture Geth space. The others - Sentry Omega (Virmire) and Pheniox Massing (Heretic HQ) are Heretc Space. Regardless, the point is that, based on Relay maps, you'd basically have to get past Haestrom and the geth patrols to get to Rannoch.

[silverexile17s]

Obadiah wrote...

There is no signal from the Reaper on Rannoch to the Dreadnaught. If there was, the Quarians would have detected it, the same way they found the one from the Dreadnaught to all the Geth.

Only thing Legion knew about the signal from Rannoch was that it was a backup. It didn't know there was a Reaper there.

How exactally do you think the Reaper device was broadcasting commands? Unless you think Legion was givin the orders. Legion says they were transmitting using him as an antenna. In other words, he could pick up the signal that no one else could, like a dog hearing a hypersonic whistle.
Yet, he never revealed this until after directly asked about the signal.

[Obadiah]

Isn't the "Dyson Sphere" an analogue that Legion used to describe the mega-structure. That doesn't mean the structure they were building is one.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Obadiah wrote...

There is no signal from the Reaper on Rannoch to the Dreadnaught. If there was, the Quarians would have detected it, the same way they found the one from the Dreadnaught to all the Geth.

Only thing Legion knew about the signal from Rannoch was that it was a backup. It didn't know there was a Reaper there.

And another plot hole the size of the Tikkun system opens.

Sorry we can't explain it, but the reaper signal somehow gets past the Quarians to the dreadnought. It is the same reaper signal.

What is also amazing is how the reaper signal gets to the dreadnought when it is on the opposite side of the world. Rannoch is not tidal locked with its sun. The Geth apparently have an array of satellites around Rannoch that relay the signal to the dreadnought.

So we'll hand wave it as a non-directional signal that started when the Quarians attacked the array.

The structure is a Dyson Bubble, not a Dyson Sphere. It will still tap a portion of the star's energy.

You do realize that tapping a portion of the star's energy will affect the climate, right?

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 09 avril 2013 - 05:42 .

[Obadiah]

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

There is no signal from the Reaper on Rannoch to the Dreadnaught. If there was, the Quarians would have detected it, the same way they found the one from the Dreadnaught to all the Geth.

Only thing Legion knew about the signal from Rannoch was that it was a backup. It didn't know there was a Reaper there.

How exactally do you think the Reaper device was broadcasting commands? Unless you think Legion was givin the orders. Legion says they were transmitting using him as an antenna. In other words, he could pick up the signal that no one else could, like a dog hearing a hypersonic whistle.
Yet, he never revealed this until after directly asked about the signal.

I don't think the Reaper was broadcasting commands from Rannoch to the Dreadnaught. Why would it need to? The Geth willingly accepted the Reaper's aid to defend themselves. All the Dreadnaught did was give the Geth the Reaper upgrades. When the Geth fell back to Rannoch, they came under direct control of the Reaper there.

[silverexile17s]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Regarding the Normandy's stealth system? Radio chatter. There's radio chatter between the quarian flotilla and the Normandy. The geth aren't stupid. If they were going to fire on non-combatants, they'd find and fire on the Normandy.

Still a massive hole. But hey, don't let over a year's worth of xenophobic hate get shot down by logic. It hasn't worked thus far.

Hate the Reapers. Hate the geth. Hate hate hate.

WRONG. How does that figure into ME2? The Normandy jumped into all those geth systems without being detected. They got into a batarian system without being detected. They got right up to the Heretic's HQ without being detected.
If you are talking about the Normandy in the Rannoch war and boarding the Dreadnought, the A.I. with High-End Cerberus Tech, and Reaper-Based adaptive code, AND expert jamming frequencies provided by the quarians, are more then enough to block any signal trace. As well as the lab-tech Traynor providing a human elememt to aid in encryption.
If Tali is dead and Xen came on the Dreadnought, Xen is able to communicate with you from on-board the dreadnought. If the geth can't trace your comms from onboard their own command ship, I doubt the Normandy is in any danger out in space linking comms through to you.
Nice try, but again, the only hole is in your arguement, which has failed to take any form of logic into that, since logic would have told you that EDI would keep your comms safe.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Funny how when the Reaper died the Geth lost the reaper upgrades.

[silverexile17s]

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

There is no signal from the Reaper on Rannoch to the Dreadnaught. If there was, the Quarians would have detected it, the same way they found the one from the Dreadnaught to all the Geth.

Only thing Legion knew about the signal from Rannoch was that it was a backup. It didn't know there was a Reaper there.

How exactally do you think the Reaper device was broadcasting commands? Unless you think Legion was givin the orders. Legion says they were transmitting using him as an antenna. In other words, he could pick up the signal that no one else could, like a dog hearing a hypersonic whistle.
Yet, he never revealed this until after directly asked about the signal.

I don't think the Reaper was broadcasting commands from Rannoch to the Dreadnaught. Why would it need to? The Geth willingly accepted the Reaper's aid to defend themselves. All the Dreadnaught did was give the Geth the Reaper upgrades. When the Geth fell back to Rannoch, they came under direct control of the Reaper there.

Legion says that the Reaper - no plural, meaning it's the same solitary Reaper - was broadcasting the commands through him. The dreadnought - and Legion - was the antenna to command all geth. As in all geth OUTSIDE the Veil as well. There were at least sevral pockets of geth outside the Veil, since the Reapers salvaged them (the geth you fight in Multiplayer are salvaged from pockets of geth that were outside the Veil). When the signal was cut, the Reapers lost control of all geth outside the Veil. Shepard even spicificallys says "the Reapers were using Legion as a signal booster"  for the signal the Reapers were using to control the geth.

[silverexile17s]

S.A.K wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

Regarding the Normandy's stealth system? Radio chatter. There's radio chatter between the quarian flotilla and the Normandy. The geth aren't stupid. If they were going to fire on non-combatants, they'd find and fire on the Normandy.

Still a massive hole. But hey, don't let over a year's worth of xenophobic hate get shot down by logic. It hasn't worked thus far.

Hate the Reapers. Hate the geth. Hate hate hate.

I think the Geth prove they are stupid when they selected to worst star out of 400billion to make that Dyson sphere around. I hope that thing was full of those Geth idiots. Your lack of knowledge on the game mechanics such as the stealth system or your tone isn't helping either.

Actually, I never worried about the geth hacking my Comms because I've got EDI monitoring them, and ensuring comm security along with Traynor. And with the quarians on hand to aid in encryption too, I don't worry about the geth listening on comms being possible.

[Megaton_Hope]

silverexile17s wrote...
 that power lapse would be FATAL to any geth connected to any cluster of sattlites that powers off.

Only if Geth consciousness resides entirely in random access memory, rather than secondary storage. Powering off a computer abruptly can be hard on your hardware, but generally won't erase your operating system.

[Eckswhyzed]

silverexile17s wrote...

Arranged in  dyson bubble means that you have these clusters on all sides of the star. You don't orginize them UNLESS you intent to take all the solar output of the star.

Also, again, cultivating farmland like that could be seen almost as laying flowers on a grave. Memorim. A tribute, if you will.

And AGAIN, it STILL shares the same function as a Dyson Shell, which is to absorb the total output of the star. Just more cost-effective. But it's the same effect.

A Dyson bubble is not a solid shell. It could approximate one, given enough statites. But we're given no evidence the geth are trying to do such a thing. The wish to harness some of the star's energy, not necessarily all of it.




Here's another approach. Suppose that the geth are building enough statites to absorb 100% of Tikkun's solar output. We can then approximate all of the statites as a solid shell. Let's be generous and agree that the megastructure is being constructed at half the distance between Rannoch and Tikkun.

Then the surface area of such a structure is:
4pi* (0.5 * 0.76AU)^2 = 4.061*10^22 square metres

The least dense material we have for such a purpose is ultralight carbon nanotubes at around 1.4grams / m^2. But, we are in 2186 so we'll say that we can get this down to 0.3g/m^2.

That gives the total mass of the shell at 1.22 * 10^19 kg of material.

I don't think I need to tell how much material this is. But if we imagine this as a sphere of pure carbon, it would be a sphere 234 km in diameter.

Quite frankly, I find it highly unbelievable the geth could (and would) build a structure of such a size.

Link to calculation: http://www.wolframal...)^2 / 1.8g/cm^3

[Obadiah]

@silverexile17s
Ok, so Legion was interfacing with a Reaper. But Legion still thought the base on Rannoch was a backup transmitter similar to the Dreadnaught, and not an actual Reaper, so what's your point?

There is nothing that says Legion knew there was a Reaper on Rannoch.

Modifié par Obadiah, 09 avril 2013 - 06:11 .

[S.A.K]

^Even if the sphere don't destroy the planet, you must admit they choose one of the worst possible places to build the thing out of 400 billion stars. They selected the one system that is most important to the Quarinas. Did the Geth do this to provoke the Quarians? Or was it just stupidity? That's why I hope the thing was full of those Geth idiots. They asked for it.

[shodiswe]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Arranged in  dyson bubble means that you have these clusters on all sides of the star. You don't orginize them UNLESS you intent to take all the solar output of the star.

Also, again, cultivating farmland like that could be seen almost as laying flowers on a grave. Memorim. A tribute, if you will.

And AGAIN, it STILL shares the same function as a Dyson Shell, which is to absorb the total output of the star. Just more cost-effective. But it's the same effect.

A Dyson bubble is not a solid shell. It could approximate one, given enough statites. But we're given no evidence the geth are trying to do such a thing. The wish to harness some of the star's energy, not necessarily all of it.




Here's another approach. Suppose that the geth are building enough statites to absorb 100% of Tikkun's solar output. We can then approximate all of the statites as a solid shell. Let's be generous and agree that the megastructure is being constructed at half the distance between Rannoch and Tikkun.

Then the surface area of such a structure is:
4pi* (0.5 * 0.76AU)^2 = 4.061*10^22 square metres

The least dense material we have for such a purpose is ultralight carbon nanotubes at around 1.4grams / m^2. But, we are in 2186 so we'll say that we can get this down to 0.3g/m^2.

That gives the total mass of the shell at 1.22 * 10^19 kg of material.

I don't think I need to tell how much material this is. But if we imagine this as a sphere of pure carbon, it would be a sphere 234 km in diameter.

Quite frankly, I find it highly unbelievable the geth could (and would) build a structure of such a size.

Link to calculation: http://www.wolframal...)^2 / 1.8g/cm^3

Agreed, Legion simply uses the likeness of a dysonsphere to describe the basic idea of what the stucture looks like.
That is placing serversatelites with solarpower collectors around the sun, placed in orbit around the sun.
It would be unusualy stupid and impractical to collect the sunlight that's heating planets and mined asteroids in the system when you can collect the 99.998% of the sunlight that never travels towards a planetary body in the system.

[shodiswe]

Obadiah wrote...

@silverexile17s
Ok, so Legion was interfacing with a Reaper. But Legion still thought the base on Rannoch was a backup transmitter similar to the Dreadnaught, and not an actual Reaper, so what's your point?

There is nothing that says Legion knew there was a Reaper on Rannoch.

Yes, and if Legion wanted Shepard dead then he wouldn't have come in with that evac/escape vehicle he had aquired as agreed. He keept to the plan and saved Shepard and the squad.
I don't think the Reapers woudl have allowed that escape if they could have controled Legion. I would say Legion is very trustworthy at that point and it proves that the reverseenginered code that Legion had been tinkering with was safe. Therefor distributing it to his friends, family and people would be safe.

I also wonder what was so special about the Geth that Legion wanted to save from that Server, sure it was an opportunity to save a few geth and get the Quarians support by promising to stop that wave of fighters. But those geth which would be a very insignificant part of the Geth species... Maybe Legion was close to them somehow.

Modifié par shodiswe, 09 avril 2013 - 06:27 .

[Megaton_Hope]

Well, Freeman Dyson's reasoning entails that an advanced society will continue to see its energy needs grow indefinitely. Where it screws up is twofold, in this case.

1. The Geth are not like organic life. Their energy needs are, consequently, not like organic life. They can, for example, build space installations that power themselves from ambient sunlight, without needing to provide atmosphere, food or living space. All they need are greater system resources on which to run.

2. The Geth, and the rest of the Mass Effect races, are not tied down to one star system, and are generally capable of producing enormous amounts of power and communicating over vast (interstellar) distances.

[shodiswe]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Well, Freeman Dyson's reasoning entails that an advanced society will continue to see its energy needs grow indefinitely. Where it screws up is twofold, in this case.

1. The Geth are not like organic life. Their energy needs are, consequently, not like organic life. They can, for example, build space installations that power themselves from ambient sunlight, without needing to provide atmosphere, food or living space. All they need are greater system resources on which to run.

2. The Geth, and the rest of the Mass Effect races, are not tied down to one star system, and are generally capable of producing enormous amounts of power and communicating over vast (interstellar) distances.

Just imagine if the Halestrom sun is dying becaue of a failed Geth Dyson sphere  

It became so massive that it collapsed onitself when the masseffect fields preventing a collapse got disrupted by a solarflare, then all that Eezo and heavy materials crashed into the sun making it destabilize.

So in the next game we play a human negotiator trying to calm down tention between Geth and Quarians over the damage done to the Rannoc sun by a Geth industrial accident that made the sun go Supernova.

Now there are millions of curses and swearwords being transmitted between systems in the Geth/Quarian sector..
The Quarians are blaming the Geth for being reckless and the Geth are blaming Quarian terrorist for disabling key safte systems in an attempt to kill Geth that woudl have become unshielded leadign to the collapse of the dyson swarm and subsequent dispersal of massive amounts of foreign materials into the sun causing the death of a billion Geth and Quarians!

Now the only survivors are a few million Geth and Quarians spread out throughout less populated colony worlds on which tempers are running hot!
Will you bne able to cool down tempers or will they manage a mutual annihilation of both species?
Stay tuned for Mass effect Next, The Perseus Veil! set 1000 Years after the Reaper war.

Modifié par shodiswe, 09 avril 2013 - 07:38 .

[S.A.K]

^Ain't gonna happen. Geth are dead. They'll still be dead in a 1000 years.