4712 réponses à ce sujet

[silverexile17s]

Phatose wrote...

....Why would anyone build a dyson sphere around a planet? It's utterly pointless. Planets aren't giant fusion reactions giving off electromagnetic energy. It accomplishes nothing. Like putting a shell of solar panels around a rock.  Actually, that isn't like putting a shell of solar panels around a rock - it IS putting a shell of solar panels around a rock.

And again, they don't need to leave an entire side empty. They don't need to leave a quarter of a side empty. The amount of energy they need to forgo is exactly equal to the percentage of energy Rannoch receives anyway, which as a simple matter of math is billionth's of a percent.

Yet, the original concept of the Dyson Sphere was building a shell around the sun that encompased Earth inside it as well, so that it wouldn't be cut off from sunlight and solar energy, and have unlimited and unrestricted access to all the sun's energy. That's the original concept. Look it up.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

AGAIN, wrong, because if they were considering Rannoch at all, they would have built the megastructure around it. And AGAIN, the entire point of building a dyson sphere is ti NEVER do that - it's to get full power from all sides 24/7. They already had server sattlites on all sides too, meaning that if any corrosponding collector sattlites switched off, the programs would die. They had NO INTENT of having anything like "shifts" on those sattlites. Otherwise, they woulf have only built them on one spicific side and synched them into orbit. INSTEAD, they built all around the sun, with the goal of entrapping ALL the sunlight. No sunlight to Rannoch = dead ecology.

A Dyson sphere conceptually allows you to harnest energy from all sides.  I can conceptually leave my TV on all day and night, doesn't mean I will.  Nothing in the game states the intent is to destroy Rannoch.  Nothing.  The game makes clear they are cleaning up Rannoch so it is illogical to think they would waste time cleaning up a place they intend to destroy.

And you still don't get the concept of an orbit.  You can't build them on one side if a planet orbits a star.  The orbit of the planet changes which side of the star is facing Rannoch.  If you built them on the west side because Rannoch is today on the east side then what the hell will you do when the orbit takes Rannoch on the west side?  You now have no way to collect energy from the east side.

And the data stored in my computer doesn't die or disappear when I turn my computer off.  Turning the satellites off doesn't wipe the hard drive clean of the Geth.  Furthermore, you can switch off the solar energy collection why leaving the satellite on.  You logic makes no sense Silver.

silverexile17s wrote...

Yet, the original concept of the Dyson Sphere was building a shell around the sun that encompased Earth inside it as well, so that it wouldn't be cut off from sunlight and solar energy, and have unlimited and unrestricted access to all the sun's energy. That's the original concept. Look it up.

All this proves is the original concept didn't think about the fact you can build a Dyson Sphere around the Sun only and simply have the satellites turn on and off depedning on wher in it's orbit the earth is.  Furthermore, the original concept has a simple flaw.  If you build the satellites around the Earth, you may infact create an oven effect.  You are blocking the sun's heat from escaping into the vast volume of space and basically concentrating it within the volume of the Dyson Sphere.  That volume includes the planet you live on so unless you are also installing air conditioning within the Dyson Sphere you will invariable raise the temperature on earth because instead of that 100% heat of the Sun being dissipated across the entire universe, you have blocked and trapped all it's heat within a volume that only extends just past earth's orbit.  You can't trap that much heat in that small a volume without raising the temperature inside the Sphere.  So yeah the A/C bill will be ridiculous, lol.

The Geth never claim to be following the original concept 100%.  That is your fabrication.

Modifié par remydat, 09 avril 2013 - 08:39 .

[silverexile17s]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@shodiswe

That seems likely. After the unprovoked bombing of the megastructure, the geth are likely more shrewd with their forces. Plus, the Legion booster basically allows them to think in a way similar to Legion -- more individually. As such, they might have decided that a strategy similar to the one you posed was wise. Holding back about 60% of their actual fleet, and only devoting as many resources as they feel necessary.

With Reaper-level tech for running simulations, they likely knew exactly how many ships they'd need to deal with the quarians, and then just tossed in a few more to deal with unexpected variables. The rest of their ships could remain at a safe distance, ready to retreat if it all goes wrong. We saw in Mass Effect 2 (the Alarei) that the geth can produce new hardware quickly. So... it's entirely possible that they might make a last, ditch strike against the quarians for taking everything from them. The megastructure, their friends, Legion, everything.

But that's not true if you pick the quarian option. If anything, without Reaper code to help them, they panic and commit all their forces, just like the quarians do in the opposate situation.
And the geth were the ones at fault for not fixing that "we hate negotiation" ideal the quarians had of them.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 09 avril 2013 - 08:34 .

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

But he knew that the base existed, given how he answered Raan immedately. Not knowing where it is does NOT change the fact that he DOES know there is a base. And that was BEFORE Gerrel started his attack, back when Legion was monolouging about how the geth ended up in Reaper care. He had enough time to monolouge that, yet not the fact that his removal from the dreadnought would NOT free the geth from Reaper command? So NO, NOT speculation. Sorry pal.

Also, weren't you critizising people fro butting in to your comment debates with other people? Yet you are doing it to me now?
Because I'm pretty sure these weren't responces to any posts of yours.

And he told them when it was relevant.  Since he nor anyone else could locate the base while on the Dreadnaught, his focus was getting off of it before Gherel blew it up.  You argument the information was relevant at that time is incorrect because no one would have been able to locate it at that time.  

When he was off the Dreadnaught and makes his appearance he tells them about the base within one minute, lol.  Why because it is relevant.  He can do something about it now ie search for the signal.

And nope I did not criticize anyone for butting in.  I criticized people for saying I like the last word because they did so by explaining their position to me and then blocking me or telling me not to respond.   That is essentially trying to get the last word through sneaky means.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

AGAIN, wrong, because if they were considering Rannoch at all, they would have built the megastructure around it. And AGAIN, the entire point of building a dyson sphere is ti NEVER do that - it's to get full power from all sides 24/7. They already had server sattlites on all sides too, meaning that if any corrosponding collector sattlites switched off, the programs would die. They had NO INTENT of having anything like "shifts" on those sattlites. Otherwise, they woulf have only built them on one spicific side and synched them into orbit. INSTEAD, they built all around the sun, with the goal of entrapping ALL the sunlight. No sunlight to Rannoch = dead ecology.

A Dyson sphere conceptually allows you to harnest energy from all sides.  I can conceptually leave my TV on all day and night, doesn't mean I will.  Nothing in the game states the intent is to destroy Rannoch.  Nothing.  The game makes clear they are cleaning up Rannoch so it is illogical to think they would waste time cleaning up a place they intend to destroy.

And you still don't get the concept of an orbit.  You can't build them on one side if a planet orbits a star.  The orbit of the planet changes which side of the star is facing Rannoch.  If you built them on the west side because Rannoch is today on the east side then what the hell will you do when the orbit takes Rannoch on the west side?  You now have no way to collect energy from the east side.

And the data stored in my computer doesn't die or disappear when I turn my computer off.  Turning the satellites off doesn't wipe the hard drive clean of the Geth.  Furthermore, you can switch off the solar energy collection why leaving the satellite on.  You logic makes no sense Silver.

But that's a WRONG EXAMPLE. The energy intake is like food consumption. You NEED to do it, and you will continuesly. The RIGHT example would be: You can conceptually go a month and a half without eating, but that doesn't mean you will.
And the geth don't "destroy" Rannoch, as the rocky landscape and world itself will still survive. The difference will be in climate and ecosystem. Those can go without destroying the entire planet. Rannoch will be geth habitable no matter what, so since they would still be able to survive on it, it wouldn't be "killing" the world for them.
The quarians on the other hand would be screwed.

Also, your computer doesn't support a living, thinking being. If I shut off your brain, do you think it would be all that easy to just turn back on? The geth are living beings, not simple computers - YOU of all people sould understand that. You can't copy senticance, since the geth are hardwire-installed on the servers. In the ME Codex, it tells you that Shutting down an A.I. through a cold-system shut-down can be fatal to the A.I. in question. EDI only survived it in the Citadel DLC because she had the Eva mech to contain her central conciousness. However, she lost alot of her "brainpower." As evidenced by the more base reactions she has in regards to the mission.
The geth didn't have enough extra servers to make such saves, because they likely never expected the megastructure to be under threat.

So NO, YOUR logic is the one that fails here.

Also, again, you respond to a post that wasn't yours.

Also, nice try with the edit, but AGAIN, dead wrong.
The original concept did NOTHING OF THE SORT. It featured Earth inside the dyson sphere, so that it would have solar energy, because Earth being outside the sphere would deprive Earth of sunlight.
Also, that problem would be impossible if the sattlites were streched out in a wide grid, where heat COULD escape. However, the geth instead ellected to have desne clusters around the star to take all the heat and energy for themselves, excluding Rannoch entirely.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 09 avril 2013 - 09:02 .

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

But that's a WRONG EXAMPLE. The energy intake is like food consumption. You NEED to do it, and you will continuesly. The RIGHT example would be: You can conceptually go a month and a half without eating, but that doesn't mean you will.
And the geth don't "destroy" Rannoch, as the rocky landscape and world itself will still survive. The difference will be in climate and ecosystem. Those can go without destroying the entire planet. Rannoch will be geth habitable no matter what, so since they would still be able to survive on it, it wouldn't be "killing" the world for them.
The quarians on the other hand would be screwed.

Also, your computer doesn't support a living, thinking being. If I shut off your brain, do you think it would be all that easy to just turn back on? The geth are living beings, not simple computers - YOU of all people sould understand that. You can't copy senticance, since the geth are hardwire-installed on the servers. In the ME Codex, it tells you that Shutting down an A.I. through a cold-system shut-down can be fatal to the A.I. in question. EDI only survived it in the Citadel DLC because she had the Eva mech to contain her central conciousness. However, she lost alot of her "brainpower." As evidenced by the more base reactions she has in regards to the mission.
The geth didn't have enough extra servers to make such saves, because they likely never expected the megastructure to be under threat.

So NO, YOUR logic is the one that fails here.

Also, again, you respond to a post that wasn't yours.

Except you don't need to consume 100%.  We only get like .00001 percent of the Sun's energy.  There is nothing that suggests the Geth need 100%.  Nothing.  By your logic I should never stop eating even when I am full and have all the energy I need.

They have no need to clean up toxins if Rannoch only needs to be Geth habitable.  The fact they do contradicts your claim that they don't care about Rannoch being organic habitable.

A Star is like an oven and my condo is like the universe/solar system.  If I oven had no sides blocking heat then it allows the heat to dissipate through my entire condo and heats my entire condo.  The volume of my condo is large and so the temperature is keep in check.  If I add sides and a door to the oven and put Earth inside it then anything within that Bubble will get extremely hot.

That is why the original concept if you are correct was flawed.  It is scientifically impossible to trap the Sun's heat within an oven and stick Earth in that oven and expect it not to heat up tremendously.

When I go to sleep, my brain shuts down all unnecessary fuctions.  Powering off is the same for a synthetic in my opinion.  I am pretty sure an Advanced AI can power itself down without having to kill itself.  

Modifié par remydat, 09 avril 2013 - 09:02 .

[S.A.K]

remydat wrote...

S.A.K

What do you call trying to exterminate a race that did not attack you completely?  If you want to say the Geth were genocidal as well then so be it.  That doesn't change the fact the Quarians were the instigators of the genocidal cycle.

If you are talking about the MW, I already agreed Quarians can be blamed for starting it. But Quarians does not seems to be genocidal based on your other points.

When someone wins a war and kicks bad neighbors off the place they were born, they don't have to prove anything to those bad neighbors.  The loser who also happened to be the ones who started the war have to prove they will submit themselves to the conditions of the victor if they want land back.  If they refuse to do so and launch another war then they are the aggressors both times.

SAK honestly where are you getting this naive notion that the winners have to prove anything to the losers when the losers were the aggressors?  Certainly not from human history.  Hell what happened when people tried to appease Hitler?  Oh that's right he wanted more and still started a war because his problem was not just he wanted Alsace or Lorraine back from the French.  His problem was he fundamentally hated people and would accept nothing but their complete subjugation or extinction.

There were no "conditions of the victor" here. So that point is totally irrelevant. Quarians want their world back and war seems to be the only way to get it back. And I don't think Geth have to prove anything. You are the one holding Quarians responsible for the second attack. If Geth are not going to cooperate like you say, war is the only option. Please stop using double standards. It's annoying and stupid.

The fundamental problem here is there are too many Quarians who think the Geth are nothing more than "Its"  Even Tali refers to Legion as "IT" when around the Admirals because seeing the Geth as anything more than tools that went rogue is not an acceptable position in Quarian society.  Koris is in the minority and everyone you meet reinforces that fact.  You can give them all the land they want but then they will find something else to hate you for.  Until they can be cured from their inherent hatred and prejudice of you that started this conflict, all you do by giving them concessions is suggest to them you are weak and thus can be defeated.  Winners don't offer concessions for free SAK precisely because it suggests weakness to the loser especially if that loser is predisposed to hate your very existence.  That was the mistake made with Hitler.  They gave or allowed him to claim land thinking it would appease him and it failed because fundamentally he hated his enemies for existing.

Until the Xen's of the world are not made Admirals and until Tali can feel comfortable referring to Legion as anything other than it, then giving them land is stupid.  They will just use it to rebuild and attack you because you killed their ancestors.  The only reason it is possible right now is because of the Reaper War.  It forced both sides to consider things they would likely have never considered otherwise.  It forced Tali to admit to Legion he has a soul and it forced Gherel to accept peace because he knews the Geth had the Reaper Upload.  It forced the Geth to respect the sacrifices Legion made to save them and honor that sacrifice by reconciling with their creators.

You don't concede or appease prejudice SAK.  You refuse to tolerate it and you give no quarter until the other party accepts there is no place in civilized society for it.  That is true of the Quarians, Geth, N*z*s, real life or fiction.

Legion itself refers to itself as "it". I am sure you call animals "it". Do you consider them machines? Legion isn't a he or she. What the hell should they call it? And you just proven that the only option Quarians had was to attack the Geth with that first paragraph. You keep calling Quarians prejudice, but fail to admit Geth have the same for all organics shown by them attacking any organic approching them. There is nothing to suggest Quarians are going to attack again once peace is made. You are still making stuff up and using pathetic excuses to deny all atrocities Geth have commited.

If you hold Quarians responsible for the second war, Geth should be open for peace. If Geth are considered "victors" and they can hold Rannoch, Quarians can't be blamed for the second attack since they had no choice. Your double standards are obvious.

Further more you failed to address anything in my last post.

Good night.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

remydat wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The Quarians submitted themselves to Council rule.  That was their choice.  Calling it the Treaty of Versailles doesn't really help your point.  Don't start wars and lose.  If you do, don't start another war and try and committ genocide on people.  All you are doing is doubling down on your stupidity.  Do you really think I care that the Germans got screwed over in a treaty when they instigated a World War?

bravo.... the Council doesn't give a rat's ass about the humanitarian crisis concerning the Quarian refugees so it punishes the entire race that is fleeing several systems, making them permanent refugees, homeless, never allowing them to settle on a world for 300 years. They practically held a gun to their head and said "Sign this or we'll finish the job." They gave the Quarians an offer they couldn't refuse. The Quarians aren't even a Council race anymore. They don't have an embassy on the Citadel. They are in the Terminus Systems. Screw the Council. Maybe the Lakota should try to take back North Dakota? After all it was the US who broke the original treaty. And the Oglala should take back South Dakota? Or something like that. I don't know the original tribal boundaries but they're in that general area. If you value treaties so much, stop being so goddamned hypocritical.

No it does not mean the Quarains must be eliminated.  There is nothing in the game that says that.  That is what you choose to interpret.  Geth VI says this right after Gherel says to everyone the Geth have stopped firing and are vulnerable.  He says this right after Tali says the Quarians have already starte their attack.  Shooting at a defenseless enemy is threatening them.  You are simply ignoring that fact.  The Quarians were as shown in the game CURRENTLY threatening the Geth.  In all scenarios in the game when they stop  CURRENTLY threatening the Geth, peace is achieved.  That is proven by the game so you statement that it means they must be eliminated contradicts the game.

No I am not ignoring it. You are ignoring facts. You cannot make peace with Geth VI. That is cold hard fact. Deal with it. Geth VI will help you only when the Quarians are no longer a threat. To Geth VI that means one thing: The Quarians are no longer a threat when they no longer exist. Geth VI is this way because while it is otherwise exactly the same as Leejin, it lacks the data file that Leejin gathered while Leejin was out exploring and observing organics. It is not Leejin.

Legion has been using the Reaper Code from the time you met him.  He has not gone crazy.  Every single action he does while using the Reaper Code helps you.  Every single action.  Even his lies help you.  Comparing his situation to EDI or Kenson is simply incorrect because we saw clear evidence of them turning on you.  From an in-game perspective Legion never turns on you and from a meta game perspective we know he never turns on you post upload.  So 100% of the time in-game and metagame, the RC helps you.  100%.

EDI never turned on us. EDI got hacked. Kenson? We weren't sure until we saw Object Rho itself. Leejin was misleading you. Leejin even admitted it. Leejin is helping you because of one singular thing: assisting you helps it reach its goal. What is its goal? Gaining access to that Reaper Code so it can upload it to all the Geth. Outside of meta gaming how do you know that is a good idea? You don't.

So it is a matter of this: Do you trust Leejin? Or do you trust Tali? Basically that's it. Are you a Gaius Baltar? Or a Laura Roslin?

And they made sure to give Tali a supporting cast of Gerrel, Xen, and Ra'an, and Rael, and Koris, and Reegar, and Veetor. They made sure you hate Gerrel, Xen, and Rael.

They gave Leejin a supporting cast of...... faceless, nameless mooks you're shooting, but wait! Leejin is shooting them, too!

The choice is clear. Leejin or Geth VI. The talking Pinocchios for the win!

You're resorting to meta-gaming. I've been trying not to. You've lost, and you know it.

And saying you don't screw around with synthetic rights is precisely why the Reapers exist, lol.  You basically ensure conflict will arise.  You can stand up for whomever you want but your evidence is somewhat lacking.  You are ignoring what the game shows us.  Given your stance on synthetic rights, you might as well just say I choose organics because they are organic and be done with it.

But that's exactly what we're discussing. You're choosing synthetic just because they're synthetic. You're sacrificing organics for synthetics here.

And synthesis is not a fairy tell ending.  There is no guarantee a Krogan hybrid and a Turian hybrid still won't want to kill each other.  I can't mod life to suit my desires.  I have to deal with situations as they come and sometimes I have to make decisions I don't want to make.  That's life.

Synthesis is the fairy tale ending. You just fail to recognize it as such. Interesting that you do recognize the Krogan is no longer Krogan but a Krogan hybrid, and the Turian is no longer Turian but a Turian hybrid. They would be able to interface with one another and gain understanding, just like they now can with the Reapers, since the Reapers are now everyone's friends. So if they're friends with the Reapers, why aren't they friends with each other? The genophage? Let bygones be bygones. I mean the Reapers were only turning them into Brutes and Marauders and slaughtering them by the millions, and they just forgot about that and understood why, and now accept that and are friends with the wonderful Reapers who are still controlled by the hybrid Intelligence. So why can't they let bygones be bygones with each other? I see no reason why they couldn't. After all you rewrote them down to the molecular level. You changed them. They're no longer who they were.

Are there any guarantees? Of course not, but they would probably seek an understanding first since they are now partly synthetic. And we don't know how all of the stuff now works in the body was changed. Do we eat? Or do we seek understanding with the food instead?

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

But he knew that the base existed, given how he answered Raan immedately. Not knowing where it is does NOT change the fact that he DOES know there is a base. And that was BEFORE Gerrel started his attack, back when Legion was monolouging about how the geth ended up in Reaper care. He had enough time to monolouge that, yet not the fact that his removal from the dreadnought would NOT free the geth from Reaper command? So NO, NOT speculation. Sorry pal.

Also, weren't you critizising people fro butting in to your comment debates with other people? Yet you are doing it to me now?
Because I'm pretty sure these weren't responces to any posts of yours.

And he told them when it was relevant.  Since he nor anyone else could locate the base while on the Dreadnaught, his focus was getting off of it before Gherel blew it up.  You argument the information was relevant at that time is incorrect because no one would have been able to locate it at that time.  

When he was off the Dreadnaught and makes his appearance he tells them about the base within one minute, lol.  Why because it is relevant.  He can do something about it now ie search for the signal.

And nope I did not criticize anyone for butting in.  I criticized people for saying I like the last word because they did so by explaining their position to me and then blocking me or telling me not to respond.   That is essentially trying to get the last word through sneaky means.

WRONG. Knowing that getting Legion out of the Dreadnought will NOT shut down the signal is pretty damn relevent to the many quarian and geth lives riding on this war's end.
The fact that there even IS a base is relevent to the war, as the quarians would know ahead of time and plan accordingly. And AGAIN, Gerrel didn't attack until Legion was released, in which time, Legion never even brought up that a base existed, known location be damned. Had Legion told you, I think that Gerrel would have elected to at least try to see if youy could find the bigger target.

And AGAIN, it's information that he ALREADY HAD, and was relevent to going on the dreadnought in the first place.

And yet, here you are, trying to get the last word in on a conversation that wasn't even directed at you. You honestly wonder why people say that when you do exactally what they claim?

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

remydat wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The Quarians submitted themselves to Council rule.  That was their choice.  Calling it the Treaty of Versailles doesn't really help your point.  Don't start wars and lose.  If you do, don't start another war and try and committ genocide on people.  All you are doing is doubling down on your stupidity.  Do you really think I care that the Germans got screwed over in a treaty when they instigated a World War?

bravo.... the Council doesn't give a rat's ass about the humanitarian crisis concerning the Quarian refugees so it punishes the entire race that is fleeing several systems, making them permanent refugees, homeless, never allowing them to settle on a world for 300 years. They practically held a gun to their head and said "Sign this or we'll finish the job." They gave the Quarians an offer they couldn't refuse. The Quarians aren't even a Council race anymore. They don't have an embassy on the Citadel. They are in the Terminus Systems. Screw the Council. Maybe the Lakota should try to take back North Dakota? After all it was the US who broke the original treaty. And the Oglala should take back South Dakota? Or something like that. I don't know the original tribal boundaries but they're in that general area. If you value treaties so much, stop being so goddamned hypocritical.

No it does not mean the Quarains must be eliminated.  There is nothing in the game that says that.  That is what you choose to interpret.  Geth VI says this right after Gherel says to everyone the Geth have stopped firing and are vulnerable.  He says this right after Tali says the Quarians have already starte their attack.  Shooting at a defenseless enemy is threatening them.  You are simply ignoring that fact.  The Quarians were as shown in the game CURRENTLY threatening the Geth.  In all scenarios in the game when they stop  CURRENTLY threatening the Geth, peace is achieved.  That is proven by the game so you statement that it means they must be eliminated contradicts the game.

No I am not ignoring it. You are ignoring facts. You cannot make peace with Geth VI. That is cold hard fact. Deal with it. Geth VI will help you only when the Quarians are no longer a threat. To Geth VI that means one thing: The Quarians are no longer a threat when they no longer exist. Geth VI is this way because while it is otherwise exactly the same as Leejin, it lacks the data file that Leejin gathered while Leejin was out exploring and observing organics. It is not Leejin.

Legion has been using the Reaper Code from the time you met him.  He has not gone crazy.  Every single action he does while using the Reaper Code helps you.  Every single action.  Even his lies help you.  Comparing his situation to EDI or Kenson is simply incorrect because we saw clear evidence of them turning on you.  From an in-game perspective Legion never turns on you and from a meta game perspective we know he never turns on you post upload.  So 100% of the time in-game and metagame, the RC helps you.  100%.

EDI never turned on us. EDI got hacked. Kenson? We weren't sure until we saw Object Rho itself. Leejin was misleading you. Leejin even admitted it. Leejin is helping you because of one singular thing: assisting you helps it reach its goal. What is its goal? Gaining access to that Reaper Code so it can upload it to all the Geth. Outside of meta gaming how do you know that is a good idea? You don't.

So it is a matter of this: Do you trust Leejin? Or do you trust Tali? Basically that's it. Are you a Gaius Baltar? Or a Laura Roslin?

And they made sure to give Tali a supporting cast of Gerrel, Xen, and Ra'an, and Rael, and Koris, and Reegar, and Veetor. They made sure you hate Gerrel, Xen, and Rael.

They gave Leejin a supporting cast of...... faceless, nameless mooks you're shooting, but wait! Leejin is shooting them, too!

The choice is clear. Leejin or Geth VI. The talking Pinocchios for the win!

You're resorting to meta-gaming. I've been trying not to. You've lost, and you know it.

And saying you don't screw around with synthetic rights is precisely why the Reapers exist, lol.  You basically ensure conflict will arise.  You can stand up for whomever you want but your evidence is somewhat lacking.  You are ignoring what the game shows us.  Given your stance on synthetic rights, you might as well just say I choose organics because they are organic and be done with it.

But that's exactly what we're discussing. You're choosing synthetic just because they're synthetic. You're sacrificing organics for synthetics here.

And synthesis is not a fairy tell ending.  There is no guarantee a Krogan hybrid and a Turian hybrid still won't want to kill each other.  I can't mod life to suit my desires.  I have to deal with situations as they come and sometimes I have to make decisions I don't want to make.  That's life.

Synthesis is the fairy tale ending. You just fail to recognize it as such. Interesting that you do recognize the Krogan is no longer Krogan but a Krogan hybrid, and the Turian is no longer Turian but a Turian hybrid. They would be able to interface with one another and gain understanding, just like they now can with the Reapers, since the Reapers are now everyone's friends. So if they're friends with the Reapers, why aren't they friends with each other? The genophage? Let bygones be bygones. I mean the Reapers were only turning them into Brutes and Marauders and slaughtering them by the millions, and they just forgot about that and understood why, and now accept that and are friends with the wonderful Reapers who are still controlled by the hybrid Intelligence. So why can't they let bygones be bygones with each other? I see no reason why they couldn't. After all you rewrote them down to the molecular level. You changed them. They're no longer who they were.

Are there any guarantees? Of course not, but they would probably seek an understanding first since they are now partly synthetic. And we don't know how all of the stuff now works in the body was changed. Do we eat? Or do we seek understanding with the food instead?

LOL, are you useing his own method against him by mispelling Legion's name?
Dirty move.
You and I might not agree on Reaper moral standings, or agree much on geth rights, but looking form your posts, you at least understand that quarians get a lot more flack then they deserve. Although, I'm pretty sure we're both in the "Synthesis isn't a perfect ending it's cracked up to be" camp.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 09 avril 2013 - 09:12 .

[remydat]

S.A.K wrote...

So what are we saying.  You get one free attempted genocide?  Don't they also kill all the Geth in the non-peace options even when those Geth are not currently shooting at them and when told to stop?

The Geth are not willing to cooperate with prejudiced people because you can't be rational with prejudiced people.  Prejudiced people hate you for existing.  The only solution to the problem is for them to stop being prejudiced or for you to stop existing.

Xen states flat out she wants to enslave the Geth and start a synthetic army.  She is the only reason this war is possible.  Please SAK, we both know the reason they refer to it as "IT" is because they think of them as tools.  Shepard refers to Legion as HIM.  Tali chooses to say IT.  I call my car a she.  No one unless they are being a tool is going to say "oh no, the car is an IT not a she."  The only reason for Tali to insist on Shep calling Legion IT instead of HIM is to deny Legion's status as an equal.

And you are confused.  The Geth are prejudice.  No one disputes this.  The only issue is their prejudice is the result of math.  They have calculated that 100% of the time Quarians thinkt they can win, they attack.  They have yet to be proven wrong.  They don't fight the Quarians because they hate them for existing.  They fight them because the Quarians give them no alternative.  The Qaurians prejudice is based solely on the Geth existing.  There is no math behind it.  The Geth never attacked them.  The Geth spent their entire lives serving them.  They chose ot be prejudiced becuase they think of the Geth as IT.  The Geth end up being prejudice because Quarians try to kill them 100% of the time they think they can.

The choice they had was to stop hating the Geth for existing.  If they could prove their hate was not just a hardwire error like Shep proved to Legion, peace could be achieved.  You can't prove that when Xen is an Admiral developing weapons by experimenting on dismembered Geth.  Koris is the only Admiral that opposes such experiments.  Everyone else is fine with it provide it does not threaten them.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

silverexile17s wrote...


LOL, are you useing his own method against him by mispelling Legion's name?
Dirty move.
You and I might not agree on Reaper moral standings, or agree much on geth rights, but looking form your posts, you at least understand that quarians get a lot more flack then they deserve. Although, I'm pretty sure we're both in the "Synthesis isn't a perfect ending it's cracked up to be" camp.

I warned him last night.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Yet you think that the quarians are supposed to blindly trust what Legion tells Tali and Shepard. Saren trusted what Soveregin told it, but did that make Soveregin's information trustworthy just because Saren believed it? And Miranda trusted the Illusive Man with her life in ME2 and believed his word, and we all know how THAT turned out ... with him giving her a direct order on the Collector Base to despose of the person she revived, after spending six months trying to convince Shepard TIM would never do that exact thing she was ordered to.
Just because Tali and Shepard trust Legion dosn't instantly make Legion itself trustworthy. Just because Shep and Tali trust Legion doesn't mean anyone else can or should on blind faith.
And no, he DOESN'T know the intel came from Legion. Not as far as I know.
Also, WRONG. Any REAL sensible person would wait for a valid REASON to be given. You don't just stop attacking a major enemy without an actuall reason for it. Sorry, but you CAN'T blame Gerrel for that mess. That's all on Tali and Raan failing to communicate.

Also, LOL, what? Did you NOT see the ending where you side with the geth, and they use their power to completely obliterate the quarians, when they had no reason to be so ruthless? If they could manuver fighters to intercept incoming fire with perfect accuracy, they could disable the liveships without destroying them. But they didn't. NO DIFFERENT then what they did in the Morning War with massive civilian casualties they could have avoided.
Also, Gerrel doens't KNOW the geth want any peace with organics. If he had, he never would have issued a martch to war. When he DOES learn co-existance is possible, he STANDS DOWN. Gerrel has already proven he isn't the power-hungry general you headcannon him to be, so stop trying to paint him as something the game itself shows him NOT to be. He stood down NOT because of the geth's return to full strength, but because he learns that the geth won't shoot.
And AGAIN, wrong. Unless both sides see each-other stop shooting, they will destroy each-other. Again, you try to headcannon "vunerable" equaling "not shootig back."
And again, that's STILL the geth's fault for GIVING themselves the reputation that they are impossible to negotiate with. If the quarians DID think the geth could be negotiated with, they wouldn't have gone to war in the first place.

No. I expect Legion to tell me that the Reapers have an HQ on Rannoch. He told Raan in a single sentance pretty quickly. He had time to exposit geth being under Reaper control for 2 minutes while you hunt for the release for his restraints. You'd think a simple mention of "Reaper base on planet" would come up WITHOUT having to be directly asked about it. Raan had to actively inquire the information. I did NOT see Legion volunteer that info prior to Raan's inquery.

The Quarians don't have to trust Shep or Tali.  If they don't they simply die if peace is not an option.  Legion spent the entire game trying to save them.  Shep took time out of a galactic apocalypse to save them.  Tali is the supposed expert on the Geth and is the main Quarian who saves them.  If you don't want to trust people that just saved your a** after you got yourself in a way you were getting your a** handed to you then you die if I have to choose between you and the people you attacked.  There is nothing more to it.  There are consequences to your actions no matter how justifiable you think those actions may be.

Yes I saw the ending where I side with the Geth and the Quarians fire at them.  The Quarians in that momemt prove that they intend to keep their 100% record of attacking the Geth when they think they can win.  Nobody is under any obligation to spare someone who is currently trying to kill them.  No one.  If you shoot at me you die.

And Legion told them about the base when it made sense to do so.  He had no idea where the signal was which is why it takes a few side missions for him to find it.

WRONG. They die because there is no hard proof on-hand to validate what they are saying. Shepard has to earn their trust by saving Koris, and then saving their liveships from Geth fighters. Also, one geth that appaerantly went rouge as far as anyone is concerned, isn't an accurate representation of the entire geth race, which comprises billions, compaired to the quarian's 17 million. And after the Heretic attack, the word of one geth isn't adiquate proof on word of mouth. They need physical proof that all geth are like Legion says they are. Also, Shepard is STILL on the clock, as getting the quarian to create an anfrastrccture for the war was the point of going to talk with them.
Also, I'm pretty sure that Shepard saved the entire galaxy, yet Anderson STILL had to have Kaiden/Ashley investigate Shep to be sure. Saving you means JACK-ZIP if you don't have proof of your current actions in the now and presant. Just look at how Shepard is treated over the Cerberus Ties. By your logic, Anderson deserves to be shot dead for not trusting Shepard's word on the Collectors. You need to STOP seeing things so narroly one-sided and look at the motivations.

AS DO THE GETH. You AGAIN, blatently show prejudice by ignoring the fact that the geth keep up THEIR 100% kill ratio of unarmed civilians, because they demonstrated supreme accuracy and control by using fighters to intercept incoming fire. They could have spared the liveships and civilians. They did not. That scene proves the OPPOSATE of what you preach - the geth were NOT standing down first, nor intended to. It was either simoultaniously, or never.
Also, by your logic, that means that if someone shoots at you, you have full right to shoot the little girl to his left, and the mother with child across from him, or the man walking his pet off to the side. What a sociopathic view of right and wrong. Unlike you, Mr. Trigger-Happy, I need a better reason then "one of them shot at me" to mow down an entire plaza filled with innocents.

AGAIN, you ignore the fact that he knew the base existed.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 09 avril 2013 - 09:44 .

[Obadiah]

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

@silverexile17s
Ok, so Legion was interfacing with a Reaper. But Legion still thought the base on Rannoch was a backup transmitter similar to the Dreadnaught, and not an actual Reaper, so what's your point?

There is nothing that says Legion knew there was a Reaper on Rannoch.

The point was he knew there was a Reaper base was on Rannoch. Not having a confirmed idea of there being a Reaper or not doens't change the fact that he knew a base existed on Rannoch. Had Shepard known, the Commander could have at least tried to trace the thing with EDI, or get some idea of where the thing was while Legion had a connection to the Reaper. It would have saved a few lives to know ahead of time what to look for, or that the dreadnought wasn't the central target to worry about in regards to Reaper control of the geth.

Wait a second. As soon as Shepard discovers Legion trapped, Legion tells Shep that its hardware is being used to broadcast the signal, so Shepard could have tried to trace it anyway. The fact that Shepard didn't and instead focused on disabling the Dreadnaught to save the Quarian fleet is just the plot of the mission.

This is not proof of Legion lying or manipulating Shepard.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

WRONG. Since the Dreadnought is getting the signal FROM the base, it is completely relevent. Even more so, because if you had been aware of the signal being streamed from the Rannoch base, you could have tracked it from the dreadnought, and known where to hit that Reaper instantly, so that you could have ended the fight quicker. It would have saved alot of lives on both sides to know where that damn base was so soon. THAT's my point.

No. Legion outright lied about why he was going to that server. He said that server mission was soley to save quarian ships, when in truth, he wanted to do so in order to save geth. 

Also, I remind you that, since the Migrant Fleet isn't usually all that connected to the galaxy, unless it's big information (like Reapers invading), I doubt Tali even knew that Shepard was released from Alliance lock-up. Grunt wasn't aware of Shepard's release on Uttuku, even though Wrex knew long before. Miranda took at least a week to find out, and she's the one with sources everywhere. As far as I know, Shepard being released from Alliance custody wasn't all that public until at least after the Citadel Coup, which by that time, the quarians were already in the Veil fighting the geth. And with public comm bouys mostly destroyed, information is slow to reach the Terminus Systems, where the Migrant Fleet was in the weeks predating the invasion. In  all likelyhood, Tali never knew Shepard was out of lock-up till well after the quarians were committed to their fight. In fact, I don't think Tali knew Shep was free till the quarians sent their invite to talk.

I Repeat - Tali likely DIDN'T know Shepard was out of lock-up till the invite. Shepard's release wasn't publc instantly, and with the public bouys down, information getting all the way out to the Cerberus-monitored Terminus would take a while. So in likelyhood, Tali lilely never heard Shepard was out until after the quarians got entraped by the geth.

So, in TRUTH, Tali is still 3 - 0 in times she DIDN'T lie to Shepard. Also, if anything, quarian lives were just the secondary objective to recovering geth. Legion flat-out tells you that he would never have done this mission if not for the chance that he could persuade the geth in the server to join up.

And what the hell are you talking about? I just said that I trust Legion personally, but do not begrudge others for wanting more information and proof before risking 17 million lives on him.

Except Legion doesn't know.  He has to spend time looking for it.  That is the whole reason why you have to do side missions because after you complete one he is able to locate the signal.  So nothing you said comes from the game.  The game makes it clear Legion is unable to locate the signal for quite some time.

Legion wanted save the ships and also save his people.  There is nothing he says in the game that says he did not have both goals.  You can have a mission that achieves more than one goal Silver, lol.  Legion simply told Shep about the goal that he knew the Quarians would support.  Does a Quarian say they want to save Geth?  So you are mad Legion wanted to save Geth and Quarians while the Quarians simply just want to save themselves, lol?

And nope, after you meet the Quarians, and speak with Tali alone just outside the comm room, Shep flat out asks Tali why he didn't tell her and she says he had his own trouble and says she is sorry about Earth.  So sorry not buying it.  Tali choose not to tell him.

And once again, Legion was right each and every time.  Each and every time Reaper Code Legion helps.  His lies help.  There is not a situation in the game where Reaper Code Legion does not end up helping Shepard.  None.

WRONG. Not knowing where the base is does NOT change the fact that he knows that the base exists. And had we known this on the Dreadnought, we could have at least tried to track it.

Also, it was a matter of convience. Legion would have interfaced with any server if given the oppertunity. He simply picked one that was convient, as it had the best chance of being a server he could actually get to out of the others.
And a mission with a goal that is UNKNOWN to you tends to be risky. Legion lied about what his primary goal was. LEGION'S primary goal was saving geth.
And likewise, have you seen any avarage geth save a quarian? And yet, you somehow continue to act like saving themselves is something the geth DIDN'T go to the Reapers for? LOL indeed, pal.

And isn't that TRUE? Hasn't Shepard been burdend with multiple things, like krogan-turian alliances, Reaper-killer hunting, Omega ground-war assisting, and many, many fetch-quests? Add to that, AGAIN, that Shep's release wasn't imeedately public, and that comm bouys are not reliable or in good functioning condition in the Cerberus-occupied  Terminus Systems, and it's more then understandible. Tali may have hesitated, but did you ever consider the fact that SHE may have been the one lobying for Shepard to come? She certinly wasted no time acompinying Shep to the dreadnought. And besides, wouldn't you hesitate before trying to burden a friend with your own baggage?

And AGAIN, each and every time, He's taking a gamble with Shepard's life, and doesn't even let Shep know the risks. Just like how he didn't tell Shepard about the vurtural interacting with the geth in the first place, and all the squadmates note how the process can not be safe.
Also: The Reaper Code-based geth shooting Shepard doesn't seem to help:whistle:
Or the many, many empty geth shells that the Reapers salvaged and use against us in Multyplayer using THAT SAME CODE:whistle:

Modifié par silverexile17s, 09 avril 2013 - 09:39 .

[silverexile17s]

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

@silverexile17s
Ok, so Legion was interfacing with a Reaper. But Legion still thought the base on Rannoch was a backup transmitter similar to the Dreadnaught, and not an actual Reaper, so what's your point?

There is nothing that says Legion knew there was a Reaper on Rannoch.

The point was he knew there was a Reaper base was on Rannoch. Not having a confirmed idea of there being a Reaper or not doens't change the fact that he knew a base existed on Rannoch. Had Shepard known, the Commander could have at least tried to trace the thing with EDI, or get some idea of where the thing was while Legion had a connection to the Reaper. It would have saved a few lives to know ahead of time what to look for, or that the dreadnought wasn't the central target to worry about in regards to Reaper control of the geth.

Wait a second. As soon as Shepard discovers Legion trapped, Legion tells Shep that its hardware is being used to broadcast the signal, so Shepard could have tried to trace it anyway. The fact that Shepard didn't and instead focused on disabling the Dreadnaught to save the Quarian fleet is just the plot of the mission.

This is not proof of Legion lying or manipulating Shepard.

Again, that's because Shepard DIDN'T KNOW there was another source. Legion neglected to tell Shepard that, so Shepard never even knew to think about it.

Also, the point was NEVER  that Legion was minipulating Shepard. That was @Shodiswe's headcannoning of my words. I said that out of the two of them, Tali has been much more honest and open with Shepard then Legion was.

[Phatose]

silverexile17s wrote...

Phatose wrote...

....Why would anyone build a dyson sphere around a planet? It's utterly pointless. Planets aren't giant fusion reactions giving off electromagnetic energy. It accomplishes nothing. Like putting a shell of solar panels around a rock.  Actually, that isn't like putting a shell of solar panels around a rock - it IS putting a shell of solar panels around a rock.

And again, they don't need to leave an entire side empty. They don't need to leave a quarter of a side empty. The amount of energy they need to forgo is exactly equal to the percentage of energy Rannoch receives anyway, which as a simple matter of math is billionth's of a percent.

Yet, the original concept of the Dyson Sphere was building a shell around the sun that encompased Earth inside it as well, so that it wouldn't be cut off from sunlight and solar energy, and have unlimited and unrestricted access to all the sun's energy. That's the original concept. Look it up.

The original concept was a thought experiment.  That means that it was perfectly reasonable to increase the required materials a billion times over for some additional ease of understanding was a good tradeoff.  Terrible tradeoff if you're actually building the thing. 

Especially since as I have noted time and time again, you can achieve the exact same effect with a miniscule gap in a much closer - and thus more practical - sphere. 

As you yourself have noted, the concept has been quite thoroughly expanded, including the dyson ring which does not gather 100% of all light from a star, yet is still classified as a dyson sphere.  Thus, we can conclude that Dyson Sphere no longer means something which absorbs all solar radiation.

Which means even if we totally ignore that the Geth Megastructure was merely similar to Dyson sphere, and not actually one - the concept of Dyson sphere no longer actually requires the property you claim.

[silverexile17s]

Phatose wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Phatose wrote...

....Why would anyone build a dyson sphere around a planet? It's utterly pointless. Planets aren't giant fusion reactions giving off electromagnetic energy. It accomplishes nothing. Like putting a shell of solar panels around a rock.  Actually, that isn't like putting a shell of solar panels around a rock - it IS putting a shell of solar panels around a rock.

And again, they don't need to leave an entire side empty. They don't need to leave a quarter of a side empty. The amount of energy they need to forgo is exactly equal to the percentage of energy Rannoch receives anyway, which as a simple matter of math is billionth's of a percent.

Yet, the original concept of the Dyson Sphere was building a shell around the sun that encompased Earth inside it as well, so that it wouldn't be cut off from sunlight and solar energy, and have unlimited and unrestricted access to all the sun's energy. That's the original concept. Look it up.

The original concept was a thought experiment.  That means that it was perfectly reasonable to increase the required materials a billion times over for some additional ease of understanding was a good tradeoff.  Terrible tradeoff if you're actually building the thing. 

Especially since as I have noted time and time again, you can achieve the exact same effect with a miniscule gap in a much closer - and thus more practical - sphere. 

As you yourself have noted, the concept has been quite thoroughly expanded, including the dyson ring which does not gather 100% of all light from a star, yet is still classified as a dyson sphere.  Thus, we can conclude that Dyson Sphere no longer means something which absorbs all solar radiation.

Which means even if we totally ignore that the Geth Megastructure was merely similar to Dyson sphere, and not actually one - the concept of Dyson sphere no longer actually requires the property you claim.

Again, you are antromorpizing the geth, in that you make the incorrect assumption that the climate and ecology of Rannoch must be sustained for their survival. For now, they only caretake as one does a memorial. But in time, caring for the ecology will impeed their level of advancement, if they do as you suggest, and they will abandon the tendong of Rannoch in favor of completeing their "ascension."

Also, the geth debris field is SPICIFICALLY listed as a Dyson Bubble, which completely escircles the target star.

One build's a Dyson Ring when they DON'T want the entire output of the star. One only builds a Dyson Bubble, Swarm, or Shell encircling the entire star when they DO wnat the star's total output.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 09 avril 2013 - 10:01 .

[Obadiah]

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

@silverexile17s
Ok, so Legion was interfacing with a Reaper. But Legion still thought the base on Rannoch was a backup transmitter similar to the Dreadnaught, and not an actual Reaper, so what's your point?

There is nothing that says Legion knew there was a Reaper on Rannoch.

The point was he knew there was a Reaper base was on Rannoch. Not having a confirmed idea of there being a Reaper or not doens't change the fact that he knew a base existed on Rannoch. Had Shepard known, the Commander could have at least tried to trace the thing with EDI, or get some idea of where the thing was while Legion had a connection to the Reaper. It would have saved a few lives to know ahead of time what to look for, or that the dreadnought wasn't the central target to worry about in regards to Reaper control of the geth.

Wait a second. As soon as Shepard discovers Legion trapped, Legion tells Shep that its hardware is being used to broadcast the signal, so Shepard could have tried to trace it anyway. The fact that Shepard didn't and instead focused on disabling the Dreadnaught to save the Quarian fleet is just the plot of the mission.

This is not proof of Legion lying or manipulating Shepard.

Again, that's because Shepard DIDN'T KNOW there was another source. Legion neglected to tell Shepard that, so Shepard never even knew to think about it.

Also, the point was NEVER  that Legion was minipulating Shepard. That was @Shodiswe's headcannoning of my words. I said that out of the two of them, Tali has been much more honest and open with Shepard then Legion was.

Well then it doesn't make Legion less honest that Tali.

Up until we got to Rannoch and discover the Reaper there, Legion only knew there were two broadcast bases that did not connect to each other. Why would Shepard think there is a way to trace the backup base if... you know... its a backup and not being used until the Dreadnaught is destroyed. As far as actually attempting to trace the source of the signal being sent through Legion, Shepard could have done that anyway and didn't, so this opportunity you speak of is irrelevant.

Honestly, this "honesty" argument you are making sounds like some head-cannoned stuff from over-analysing two conversations.

Modifié par Obadiah, 09 avril 2013 - 10:07 .

[silverexile17s]

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Again, that's because Shepard DIDN'T KNOW there was another source. Legion neglected to tell Shepard that, so Shepard never even knew to think about it.

Also, the point was NEVER  that Legion was minipulating Shepard. That was @Shodiswe's headcannoning of my words. I said that out of the two of them, Tali has been much more honest and open with Shepard then Legion was.

Well then it doesn't make Legion less honest that Tali.

Up until we got to Rannoch and discover the Reaper there, Legion only knew there are two broadcast bases that do not connect to each other. Why would Shepard think there is a way to trace the backup base if... you know... its a backup and not being used until the Dreadnaught is destroyed. As far as actually attempting to trace the source of the signal being sent through Legion, Shepard could have done that anyway and didn't, so this opportunity you speak of is irrelevant.

Honestly, this "honesty" argument you are making sound like somenhead-cannoned stuff from over-analysing two conversations.

YES, it does.
Legion knew the base was on Rannoch, and didn't say anything till directly questioned. Legion knew there were definate risks to interfacing with the geth consensis for Shepard, but didn't explain them until they were already on approach. Legion lied about his motivations for coming to the geth server, in that his primary objective was saving geth, with the quarian lives being secondary. He hid the fact that he stole the Reaper Uprgades for himself. Also, it's NOT a back-up, it's a CP. The base was established for "short-range" control. It WASN'T what you would call a back-up. It was a command post. And the Dreadnought was the transmitter, and Legion the antenna.

So NO, this oppertunity was Comepletely relevent,,as they could have possibly found the base then and there,

So NO, it's NOT headcannon.

[remydat]

sH0tgUn jUliA

Ok, maybe I am confused here.  The Quarians letting the Council screw them means I should let them kill Geth why?  What goes on between organics is there affair.  The Quarians agreed to a treaty.  They violated it at a time they knew they could get away with it.  Why this means I should allow them to kill the Geth is beyond me.  If they are upset with the sanctions then go to war with the Council.  

You can't make peace with the Geth VI because Gherel refuses to stand down and stop firing.  That is cold hard fact.  Show me a scenario with the Quarians stop trying to kill them and the Geth VI still kills them?  You can't because it is not in the game.

Legion's deeds ended up saving the Quarians.  He could not hack the security he needed to during the Rannoch mission without the Reaper Code.  Shep says this flat out.  I know it is a good idea because he has been right the whole time.  He has Reaper Upgrades in him the whole time.  If he wanted to he could have uploaded the code without our help if the Reaper was helping him.  He had disappeared for the entire mission.  If he was working with the Reapers, he could have simply walked unopposed to the Reaper signal because why would the Geth working with the Reapers attack him if he was also working with the Reapers,lol.  The logic simply makes no sense.  There is no reason to believe there is a problem with the RC Legion is using.

I trust both.  The issue here is Tali's people refuse to listen to her in the non-peace option.  The decision has nothing to do with me not trusting her. It has to do with her own people no trusting her.  They elected her as an Admiral because she is a geth expert, she is on a mission to stop the signal and she does so saving your entire people and now all of a sudden you don't want to trust her?  

Find me an example of Legion during the time we meet him doing something that does not help me.  Why should I not trust the guy that has only helped even when he lied.  I repeat even when he lied he helped me.  Tali neglected to tell me about the War when the story says she know I was out of prision.  I now need to save the Quarian's a** because of it.  Legion lied and delivered me Geth Primes and used the RC to hack security throught the Rannoch mission.  It is not metagaming to trust someone who has only helped you 100% lies and all.  When I talk about the writers, I am not metagaming.  I am telling you that these things are what the writers wrote in the story.  They wrote me finding out Legion was lying but those lies helping me win a war.  For you to not trust him means you have to ignore the fact that in the game Reaper Code Legion helps me 100% of the time.

No I am choosing synthetics because they didn't start a war.  I am choosing them because in the game the Quarians refuse to stand down even when I save their a**es and when the Geth expert Tali tells them too.   The Quarians have beef with the Council and instead of dealing with the Council go and attack the Geth.  The Quarians attack 100% of the time when they think they can win.  There are ample reasons to judge the Quarians as the aggressors.

Humans like each other and we still murder each other.  We simply decide to find other reasons to hate each other despite being human.  For f**ks sake we enslaved people because they were a different pigment than us and you think a Krogan that looks different than a Turian can't just hate them for that and that alone?  A Krogan being able to understand why the Turian put a bomb on his planet or gave his people the genophage doesn't result in peace.  They can choose to hate them just the same.  No one forgets anything.  They are just tired of war.  Billions just died so why would they plunge right back into war.  They will rebuild and ultimately they will have to decide if bygones are truly bygones.  Given they are still part orgnanic I seriously doubt that.  The world I currently live in disproves that non-sense.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

@silverexile17s
Ok, so Legion was interfacing with a Reaper. But Legion still thought the base on Rannoch was a backup transmitter similar to the Dreadnaught, and not an actual Reaper, so what's your point?

There is nothing that says Legion knew there was a Reaper on Rannoch.

The point was he knew there was a Reaper base was on Rannoch. Not having a confirmed idea of there being a Reaper or not doens't change the fact that he knew a base existed on Rannoch. Had Shepard known, the Commander could have at least tried to trace the thing with EDI, or get some idea of where the thing was while Legion had a connection to the Reaper. It would have saved a few lives to know ahead of time what to look for, or that the dreadnought wasn't the central target to worry about in regards to Reaper control of the geth.

Wait a second. As soon as Shepard discovers Legion trapped, Legion tells Shep that its hardware is being used to broadcast the signal, so Shepard could have tried to trace it anyway. The fact that Shepard didn't and instead focused on disabling the Dreadnaught to save the Quarian fleet is just the plot of the mission.

This is not proof of Legion lying or manipulating Shepard.

Again, that's because Shepard DIDN'T KNOW there was another source. Legion neglected to tell Shepard that, so Shepard never even knew to think about it.

Also, the point was NEVER  that Legion was minipulating Shepard. That was @Shodiswe's headcannoning of my words. I said that out of the two of them, Tali has been much more honest and open with Shepard then Legion was.

Well then it doesn't make Legion less honest that Tali.

Up until we got to Rannoch and discover the Reaper there, Legion only knew there were two broadcast bases that did not connect to each other. Why would Shepard think there is a way to trace the backup base if... you know... its a backup and not being used until the Dreadnaught is destroyed. As far as actually attempting to trace the source of the signal being sent through Legion, Shepard could have done that anyway and didn't, so this opportunity you speak of is irrelevant.

Honestly, this "honesty" argument you are making sounds like some head-cannoned stuff from over-analysing two conversations.

Well, here's another point. If the reaper signal from the dreadnought isn't originating from the reaper, then it must by default be originating from.... dun dun dun Leejin. (this is for remy)  OH NOES!!!!

[Phatose]

silverexile17s wrote...

Phatose wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Phatose wrote...

....Why would anyone build a dyson sphere around a planet? It's utterly pointless. Planets aren't giant fusion reactions giving off electromagnetic energy. It accomplishes nothing. Like putting a shell of solar panels around a rock.  Actually, that isn't like putting a shell of solar panels around a rock - it IS putting a shell of solar panels around a rock.

And again, they don't need to leave an entire side empty. They don't need to leave a quarter of a side empty. The amount of energy they need to forgo is exactly equal to the percentage of energy Rannoch receives anyway, which as a simple matter of math is billionth's of a percent.

Yet, the original concept of the Dyson Sphere was building a shell around the sun that encompased Earth inside it as well, so that it wouldn't be cut off from sunlight and solar energy, and have unlimited and unrestricted access to all the sun's energy. That's the original concept. Look it up.

The original concept was a thought experiment.  That means that it was perfectly reasonable to increase the required materials a billion times over for some additional ease of understanding was a good tradeoff.  Terrible tradeoff if you're actually building the thing. 

Especially since as I have noted time and time again, you can achieve the exact same effect with a miniscule gap in a much closer - and thus more practical - sphere. 

As you yourself have noted, the concept has been quite thoroughly expanded, including the dyson ring which does not gather 100% of all light from a star, yet is still classified as a dyson sphere.  Thus, we can conclude that Dyson Sphere no longer means something which absorbs all solar radiation.

Which means even if we totally ignore that the Geth Megastructure was merely similar to Dyson sphere, and not actually one - the concept of Dyson sphere no longer actually requires the property you claim.

Again, you are antromorpizing the geth, in that you make the incorrect assumption that the climate and ecology of Rannoch must be sustained for their survival. For now, they only caretake as one does a memorial. But in time, caring for the ecology will impeed their level of advancement, if they do as you suggest, and they will abandon the tendong of Rannoch in favor of completeing their "ascension."

Also, the geth debris field is SPICIFICALLY listed as a Dyson Bubble, which completely escircles the target star.

One build's a Dyson Ring when they DON'T want the entire output of the star. One only builds a Dyson Bubble, Swarm, or Shell encircling the entire star when they DO wnat the star's total output.

No...it doesn't.  That's not what a dyson bubble means.

A swarm does not neccessairly cover the entire star.  A Dyson Ring is a subclass of a dyson swarm - one of many possible arrangements that absorb some portion of stars energy.

The difference between a dyson swarm and a dyson bubble is that in the swarm, the shell elements are in an orbit, while in the bubble, they are fixed relative to the star.  That's it - it's not about coverage, it's about motion.  You can in fact have a ring shaped dyson bubble.

Theoretically a bubble could gather all the energy from the star.  But it is NOT a required property of a bubble. 

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

WRONG. They die because there is no hard proof on-hand to validate what they are saying. Shepard has to earn their trust by saving Koris, and then saving their liveships from Geth fighters. Also, one geth that appaerantly went rouge as far as anyone is concerned, isn't an accurate representation of the entire geth race, which comprises billions, compaired to the quarian's 17 million. And after the Heretic attack, the word of one geth isn't adiquate proof on word of mouth. They need physical proof that all geth are like Legion says they are. Also, Shepard is STILL on the clock, as getting the quarian to create an anfrastrccture for the war was the point of going to talk with them.
Also, I'm pretty sure that Shepard saved the entire galaxy, yet Anderson STILL had to have Kaiden/Ashley investigate Shep to be sure. Saving you means JACK-ZIP if you don't have proof of your current actions in the now and presant. Just look at how Shepard is treated over the Cerberus Ties. By your logic, Anderson deserves to be shot dead for not trusting Shepard's word on the Collectors. You need to STOP seeing things so narroly one-sided and look at the motivations.

AS DO THE GETH. You AGAIN, blatently show prejudice by ignoring the fact that the geth keep up THEIR 100% kill ratio of unarmed civilians, because they demonstrated supreme accuracy and control by using fighters to intercept incoming fire. They could have spared the liveships and civilians. They did not. That scene proves the OPPOSATE of what you preach - the geth were NOT standing down first, nor intended to. It was either simoultaniously, or never.
Also, by your logic, that means that if someone shoots at you, you have full right to shoot the little girl to his left, and the mother with child across from him, or the man walking his pet off to the side. What a sociopathic view of right and wrong. Unlike you, Mr. Trigger-Happy, I need a better reason then "one of them shot at me" to mow down an entire plaza filled with innocents.

AGAIN, you ignore the fact that he knew the base existed.

People routinely have to make decisions when the only evidence they have is somone's word.  What world do you live in where you think everything can be investigated thoroughly.  I do it everyday on my job.  I don't validate everything my staff say.  I don't look at all the evidence they gathered.  If I have time too maybe I will but when my boss needs me to make a call right then and there, it is often based on whether I trust my staff to have done their jobs.  So your logic exists only in the realm of fantasy.  Real life doesn't work like that.  If I waited until everything could be proven before making decisions I would be fired.  I don't have the luxury to do that and neither did the Quarians.  They had to decide in that moment to trust the people who saved their lives or not.  They made the wrong choice in the non-peace options.

And the Quarians were not unarmed.  That is just a blatant lie.  They were firing on the Geth.  You go find a cop with a bulletproof vest on and fire at his vest and see if he refrains from killing you as you continue to fire at his bullet proof vest.  The Reapers have way more defenses than the Geth and guess what you can still kill them.  You logic again is the stuff of fantasy.  You shoot at someone you die.

And we all know he knew the base existed.  He told us about it.  That is the only reason we know it exists, lol.  You simply want to pretend like he deliberately kept it from us because he is secretly evil.  I don't even know what your point is.  He knew and he told us in time for us to do something about it.  Tali knew a war was coming and the game makes clear she knew I was out of prision and she didn't tell me about it until it was too late for me to stop it.  When you show me a game when Legion doesn't tell me about the base until the Geth have already killed the Quarians then talk to me.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

WRONG. Not knowing where the base is does NOT change the fact that he knows that the base exists. And had we known this on the Dreadnought, we could have at least tried to track it.

Also, it was a matter of convience. Legion would have interfaced with any server if given the oppertunity. He simply picked one that was convient, as it had the best chance of being a server he could actually get to out of the others.
And a mission with a goal that is UNKNOWN to you tends to be risky. Legion lied about what his primary goal was. LEGION'S primary goal was saving geth.
And likewise, have you seen any avarage geth save a quarian? And yet, you somehow continue to act like saving themselves is something the geth DIDN'T go to the Reapers for? LOL indeed, pal.

And isn't that TRUE? Hasn't Shepard been burdend with multiple things, like krogan-turian alliances, Reaper-killer hunting, Omega ground-war assisting, and many, many fetch-quests? Add to that, AGAIN, that Shep's release wasn't imeedately public, and that comm bouys are not reliable or in good functioning condition in the Cerberus-occupied  Terminus Systems, and it's more then understandible. Tali may have hesitated, but did you ever consider the fact that SHE may have been the one lobying for Shepard to come? She certinly wasted no time acompinying Shep to the dreadnought. And besides, wouldn't you hesitate before trying to burden a friend with your own baggage?

And AGAIN, each and every time, He's taking a gamble with Shepard's life, and doesn't even let Shep know the risks. Just like how he didn't tell Shepard about the vurtural interacting with the geth in the first place, and all the squadmates note how the process can not be safe.
Also: The Reaper Code-based geth shooting Shepard doesn't seem to help:whistle:
Or the many, many empty geth shells that the Reapers salvaged and use against us in Multyplayer using THAT SAME CODE:whistle:

Legion was connected to the thing and couldn't locate it.  Explain to me how in your head cannon you would track it in the 2 minutes you have before Gherel blows up the Dreadnaught.  Explain to me how someone would locate the signal when the guy hooked up to it couldn't and when even afterwards, the only guy that finds it is Legion not EDI, not anyone else?

Did the Server mission save the Quarians?  Soldiers routinely do missions where they don't know the full story.  The mission was a success and I got some Geth Primes as an added bonus.  Tali tells me why she didn't contact me.  She did not mention difficult communication.  The terminus system or any such non-sense.

And each and every time Legion gambles, he wins.  Each and every time.  Too bad the Quarians gambling is not as successful otherwise they would not have lost 2 billion people.  Once again, you are free to feel however you want.  I am not naive enough to believe that in life, everyone is completely upfront with me about their motives 100% of the time.  Legion had a good reason to keep stuff from me and in the end, he was correct 100% of the time.  If you honestly think your friends and family are 100% upfront about their motives then you are naive.  As long as it doesn't screw me over, I don't care.  Find me an example in game where it screwed me over otherwise I don't care.

Modifié par remydat, 09 avril 2013 - 11:05 .