4712 réponses à ce sujet

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Again, you are antromorpizing the geth, in that you make the incorrect assumption that the climate and ecology of Rannoch must be sustained for their survival. For now, they only caretake as one does a memorial. But in time, caring for the ecology will impeed their level of advancement, if they do as you suggest, and they will abandon the tendong of Rannoch in favor of completeing their "ascension."

Also, the geth debris field is SPICIFICALLY listed as a Dyson Bubble, which completely escircles the target star.

One build's a Dyson Ring when they DON'T want the entire output of the star. One only builds a Dyson Bubble, Swarm, or Shell encircling the entire star when they DO wnat the star's total output.

I am still waiting to understand how you stop a planet from turning into a furnace if it is within a Dyson Sphere?  You can't trap heat that would otherwise be spread over an entire solar system or universe in the volume that only extends to earths orbit without drastically increasing the temperature. 

So what does the thought experiment say about how you prevent the planet within the Dyson Sphere from becoming basically one big volcano?

Modifié par remydat, 09 avril 2013 - 11:04 .

[remydat]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Well, here's another point. If the reaper signal from the dreadnought isn't originating from the reaper, then it must by default be originating from.... dun dun dun Leejin. (this is for remy)  OH NOES!!!!

Is there something preventing it from originating from the Dreadnaught itself.  Who said the Reaper Signal has to be from a Reaper?  If that was the case then no one in the game would have been shocked when they found out that the Reaper signal was in fact a Reaper.

So there could have been two separate signals.  One on the dreadnaught that was long range and needed Legion to boost it and one that only activated to allow for short range transmission in the event that the other goes down.

There is nothing that proves the signal had to be from the Reaper on Rannoch or from Legion.  That is just you choosing to think so.  There is nothing in the below scene that suggests the short range and long range signals are one in the same.  There is also nothing that suggests the long range signal was Legion.  No where does Legion imply the two signals are connected to each other and in fact from the below I would assume they were two separate signals and when one went out the other one activates. 

Modifié par remydat, 09 avril 2013 - 11:04 .

[Obadiah]

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Again, that's because Shepard DIDN'T KNOW there was another source. Legion neglected to tell Shepard that, so Shepard never even knew to think about it.

Also, the point was NEVER  that Legion was minipulating Shepard. That was @Shodiswe's headcannoning of my words. I said that out of the two of them, Tali has been much more honest and open with Shepard then Legion was.

Well then it doesn't make Legion less honest that Tali.

Up until we got to Rannoch and discover the Reaper there, Legion only knew there are two broadcast bases that do not connect to each other. Why would Shepard think there is a way to trace the backup base if... you know... its a backup and not being used until the Dreadnaught is destroyed. As far as actually attempting to trace the source of the signal being sent through Legion, Shepard could have done that anyway and didn't, so this opportunity you speak of is irrelevant.

Honestly, this "honesty" argument you are making sound like somenhead-cannoned stuff from over-analysing two conversations.

YES, it does.
Legion knew the base was on Rannoch, and didn't say anything till directly questioned. Legion knew there were definate risks to interfacing with the geth consensis for Shepard, but didn't explain them until they were already on approach. Legion lied about his motivations for coming to the geth server, in that his primary objective was saving geth, with the quarian lives being secondary. He hid the fact that he stole the Reaper Uprgades for himself. Also, it's NOT a back-up, it's a CP. The base was established for "short-range" control. It WASN'T what you would call a back-up. It was a command post. And the Dreadnought was the transmitter, and Legion the antenna.

So NO, this oppertunity was Comepletely relevent,,as they could have possibly found the base then and there,

So NO, it's NOT headcannon.

The base on Rannoch is described in terms of a short range backup to the long range broadcast of the Dreadnaught. That is all anyone knows about it until they get there. Legion volunteered information on it as soon as it was invited to give aid, not under direct questioning.

So YES, any reading of dishonesty on Legion's part in that situation is misplaced.

Modifié par Obadiah, 09 avril 2013 - 11:12 .

[remydat]

Obadiah wrote...

The base on Rannoch is described in terms of a short range backup to the long range broadcast of the Dreadnaught. That is all anyone knows about it until they get there. Legion volunteered information on it as soon as it was invited to give aid, not under direct questioning.

So YES, any reading of dishonesty on Legion's part in that situation is misplaced.

You are clearly wrong bro.  Just close your eyes and say the Geth are evil seven times as you play this video and the dialogue will change to reveal Legion's sinister plan, lol.  I admit took me a while to find the truth as when I first went to a Quarian Supporters meeting, the dude told me to say it 6 times.  Doesn't work if you say it 6 times.  Has to be 7 bro.

Modifié par remydat, 09 avril 2013 - 11:17 .

[Eckswhyzed]

@Remy

If your sphere has 100% energy absorption there will no reflected heat to warm any planets on the inside.


But this is irrelevant, because I don't see any evidence the geth wish to build a solid shell or a statite swarm dense enough to severely impact Rannoch's climate. Funnily enough, the geth could leave a gap in the swarm corresponding to Rannoch's orbital plane.

Modifié par Eckswhyzed, 09 avril 2013 - 11:18 .

[remydat]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

@Remy

If your sphere has 100% energy absorption there will no reflected heat to warm any planets on the inside.


But this is irrelevant, because I don't see any evidence the geth wish to build a solid shell or a highly dense statite swarm. Funnily enough, the geth could leave a gap in the swarm corresponding to Rannoch's orbital plane.

If the planet is on the inside, the heat has to pass the planet before reaching the sphere. 

If I insulate my walls to prevent heat from escaping in the winter, the natural effect is to raise the temperature inside the house.  The insulation warms the house because the heat is being circulated in that confined area until the insulation can trap it, absorb it and prevent it from escaping the house.

I confess my astronomy class was like 12 years ago but I don't see how the heat can be absorbed before warming up the planet if the planet is inside the bubble.  Also, you have solar winds that are stirring up the heat and twirling it around within the Sphere. 

[Eckswhyzed]

@Silverexile

I think we can all agree the geth are working to preserve Rannoch's ecosystem (we all believe the codex, right?).

It just makes no sense to me that the geth would build a solid shell requiring a colossal amount of materials and then ruin all their hard work when the alternative is a statite swarm requiring much less material and preserves Rannoch's ecosystem.

[Eckswhyzed]

@Remydat

You're in space, remember?

Ignoring effects of the solar wind, the only way Rannoch is warmed by its star is through absorption of light. If a shell has 100% absorptivity (and hence 0% reflectivity) no light will be reflected and there will be no effect on Rannoch.

It's all pretty irrelevant, seeing as the geth aren't building a solid shell. Come to think of it, is it specified in-game whether the Dyson swarm is within Rannoch's orbit or outside it?

[silverexile17s]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

@Remydat

You're in space, remember?

Ignoring effects of the solar wind, the only way Rannoch is warmed by its star is through absorption of light. If a shell has 100% absorptivity (and hence 0% reflectivity) no light will be reflected and there will be no effect on Rannoch.

It's all pretty irrelevant, seeing as the geth aren't building a solid shell. Come to think of it, is it specified in-game whether the Dyson swarm is within Rannoch's orbit or outside it?

Outside. Rannoch is not within the diamiter or radius of the sphere. The Dyson Swarm is contained to the orbit of Tikkun - the system's star.

[silverexile17s]

Phatose wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Phatose wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Phatose wrote...

....Why would anyone build a dyson sphere around a planet? It's utterly pointless. Planets aren't giant fusion reactions giving off electromagnetic energy. It accomplishes nothing. Like putting a shell of solar panels around a rock.  Actually, that isn't like putting a shell of solar panels around a rock - it IS putting a shell of solar panels around a rock.

And again, they don't need to leave an entire side empty. They don't need to leave a quarter of a side empty. The amount of energy they need to forgo is exactly equal to the percentage of energy Rannoch receives anyway, which as a simple matter of math is billionth's of a percent.

Yet, the original concept of the Dyson Sphere was building a shell around the sun that encompased Earth inside it as well, so that it wouldn't be cut off from sunlight and solar energy, and have unlimited and unrestricted access to all the sun's energy. That's the original concept. Look it up.

The original concept was a thought experiment.  That means that it was perfectly reasonable to increase the required materials a billion times over for some additional ease of understanding was a good tradeoff.  Terrible tradeoff if you're actually building the thing. 

Especially since as I have noted time and time again, you can achieve the exact same effect with a miniscule gap in a much closer - and thus more practical - sphere. 

As you yourself have noted, the concept has been quite thoroughly expanded, including the dyson ring which does not gather 100% of all light from a star, yet is still classified as a dyson sphere.  Thus, we can conclude that Dyson Sphere no longer means something which absorbs all solar radiation.

Which means even if we totally ignore that the Geth Megastructure was merely similar to Dyson sphere, and not actually one - the concept of Dyson sphere no longer actually requires the property you claim.

Again, you are antromorpizing the geth, in that you make the incorrect assumption that the climate and ecology of Rannoch must be sustained for their survival. For now, they only caretake as one does a memorial. But in time, caring for the ecology will impeed their level of advancement, if they do as you suggest, and they will abandon the tendong of Rannoch in favor of completeing their "ascension."

Also, the geth debris field is SPICIFICALLY listed as a Dyson Bubble, which completely escircles the target star.

One build's a Dyson Ring when they DON'T want the entire output of the star. One only builds a Dyson Bubble, Swarm, or Shell encircling the entire star when they DO wnat the star's total output.

No...it doesn't.  That's not what a dyson bubble means.

A swarm does not neccessairly cover the entire star.  A Dyson Ring is a subclass of a dyson swarm - one of many possible arrangements that absorb some portion of stars energy.

The difference between a dyson swarm and a dyson bubble is that in the swarm, the shell elements are in an orbit, while in the bubble, they are fixed relative to the star.  That's it - it's not about coverage, it's about motion.  You can in fact have a ring shaped dyson bubble.

Theoretically a bubble could gather all the energy from the star.  But it is NOT a required property of a bubble. 

Yet the "Geth Debris Field" is listed as having the sattlites in position around the sun in the pattern of a dyson bubble. That means that there must be clusters of them on all sides of the star, taking energy from all directions.

And "Dyson Bubble" is the improved version of the dyson shell, in that it's easier to make while retaining the same result - total output absorbtion.

And again you make human asumptions about the geth. At least you admit that the sattlites can do exactally what I kept saying they could - absorb the total output of Tikkun.
The point is that the geth are driven by self-improvement. They worked on this for nearly three centuries. The more power they have, the bigger the network they can create. Hense, by taking all of Tikkun's output, they can reach the literal pinnicle of their existance - something too good to pass up. After all, the geth have always put their own well-being ahead of others in the past. Why not now?

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

WRONG. They die because there is no hard proof on-hand to validate what they are saying. Shepard has to earn their trust by saving Koris, and then saving their liveships from Geth fighters. Also, one geth that appaerantly went rouge as far as anyone is concerned, isn't an accurate representation of the entire geth race, which comprises billions, compaired to the quarian's 17 million. And after the Heretic attack, the word of one geth isn't adiquate proof on word of mouth. They need physical proof that all geth are like Legion says they are. Also, Shepard is STILL on the clock, as getting the quarian to create an infrastrccture for the war was the point of going to talk with them.
Also, I'm pretty sure that Shepard saved the entire galaxy, yet Anderson STILL had to have Kaiden/Ashley investigate Shep to be sure. Saving you means JACK-ZIP if you don't have proof of your current actions in the now and presant. Just look at how Shepard is treated over the Cerberus Ties. By your logic, Anderson deserves to be shot dead for not trusting Shepard's word on the Collectors. You need to STOP seeing things so narroly one-sided and look at the motivations.

AS DO THE GETH. You AGAIN, blatently show prejudice by ignoring the fact that the geth keep up THEIR 100% kill ratio of unarmed civilians, because they demonstrated supreme accuracy and control by using fighters to intercept incoming fire. They could have spared the liveships and civilians. They did not. That scene proves the OPPOSATE of what you preach - the geth were NOT standing down first, nor intended to. It was either simoultaniously, or never.
Also, by your logic, that means that if someone shoots at you, you have full right to shoot the little girl to his left, and the mother with child across from him, or the man walking his pet off to the side. What a sociopathic view of right and wrong. Unlike you, Mr. Trigger-Happy, I need a better reason then "one of them shot at me" to mow down an entire plaza filled with innocents.

AGAIN, you ignore the fact that he knew the base existed.

People routinely have to make decisions when the only evidence they have is somone's word.  What world do you live in where you think everything can be investigated thoroughly.  I do it everyday on my job.  I don't validate everything my staff say.  I don't look at all the evidence they gathered.  If I have time too maybe I will but when my boss needs me to make a call right then and there, it is often based on whether I trust my staff to have done their jobs.  So your logic exists only in the realm of fantasy.  Real life doesn't work like that.  If I waited until everything could be proven before making decisions I would be fired.  I don't have the luxury to do that and neither did the Quarians.  They had to decide in that moment to trust the people who saved their lives or not.  They made the wrong choice in the non-peace options.

And the Quarians were not unarmed.  That is just a blatant lie.  They were firing on the Geth.  You go find a cop with a bulletproof vest on and fire at his vest and see if he refrains from killing you as you continue to fire at his bullet proof vest.  The Reapers have way more defenses than the Geth and guess what you can still kill them.  You logic again is the stuff of fantasy.  You shoot at someone you die.

And we all know he knew the base existed.  He told us about it.  That is the only reason we know it exists, lol.  You simply want to pretend like he deliberately kept it from us because he is secretly evil.  I don't even know what your point is.  He knew and he told us in time for us to do something about it.  Tali knew a war was coming and the game makes clear she knew I was out of prision and she didn't tell me about it until it was too late for me to stop it.  When you show me a game when Legion doesn't tell me about the base until the Geth have already killed the Quarians then talk to me.

NOT when those decisions have millions resting on them. You can't make choices like that lighty, no matter WHO the hell tells you to. Garrus has to spend days looking over the data feeds of Palaven before making a choice on what the turians should do. Wrex needs to have the genophage cure released before he take's Shepard's offer to help the turians. Anderson needs solid evidence of Collector attacks before committing trust to Shepard. When you have an entire race on your shoulders, "I am Shepard" does NOT cut it. It didn't cut it for the Council. It didn't cut it for the Alliance.  It didn't cut it for Anderson. Why the hell should it do so for the quarians?
And that world is called "Earth." Heard of it? You know, where people in charge like to to take the information passed on by the soldier, then thruoghlly review and confirm it BEFORE risking the entire country/populance on said information.
What world do YOU live on where people risk their entire fleet, race, and culture for the unconfirmed, unproveible word of three people? - one of which is a member of the enemy faction.That's like handing Cerberus all the Alliance and Council' Spectre's classified sensus data, just because Miranda Lawson tells you TIM would never screw humans or the wider galaxy over.

Also, the term" glass cannon" comes to mind. Don't try and BS me that geth with pinpoint accuracy and targeting - to be able to block individual incoming shots with perfect precision using fighters - can't disable giant mobile space stations. That's like a sniper nailing a bottle at 100 yards, yet missing the side of a brick wall 5 feet away - impossible. YOU go find me a bilding full of thousands of civilians, with aboyt a dozen gunman aborad, and a situation where the first impunse is to demolish the building with C4 and write everyone inside off as "casualties of war." Find me a cop that mows down tevery innocent on the entire block with a chaingun just because a single person shot at him. That's prejudiced, uncaring, amoral, callous, and sociopathic.
Once again, the only fantasy is the one that YOU live in, where shooting someone is motivation to massicare woman and childeren in the area just because they are there in the general vicinity with said gunman.

And AGAIN, waited till we were out of the perfect position to find it. He's hooked to the thing, knows it's out there, and yet doesn't tell us until after it's already too late to take advantage of it? THAT's an LoL, pal.
And AGAIN, you are headcannoning to put words in my mouth, because i NEVER said anything like "he's evil." I said that he simply had a lapse in logical thinking, as he neglected to tell me about the Reaper base while on a dreadnought I could have traced it from. He told us too late to take full advantage of it, and now we had to spend time headhunting it, during which lives on both sides were lost. Knowing about that base sooner would have ended the fight quicker.
Show me a vid in which Legion tells you WITHOUT Raan needing to ask him about it.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 avril 2013 - 01:49 .

[silverexile17s]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

@Silverexile

I think we can all agree the geth are working to preserve Rannoch's ecosystem (we all believe the codex, right?).

It just makes no sense to me that the geth would build a solid shell requiring a colossal amount of materials and then ruin all their hard work when the alternative is a statite swarm requiring much less material and preserves Rannoch's ecosystem.

Do you believe the Codex when it says Rachni are all murderous monsters? Or that protheans were a benevolant uplifting utoipan sociaty?

Also, the entire POINT is that a Dyson Swarm can do the same thing a Dyson Shell can in less time and effort. Same effect - total output absorbtion.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 avril 2013 - 01:48 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

@ Remy

Yeah yeah yeah yadda yadda yadda.

You're going to write anything to put the Geth in a favorable light. It is quite obvious. You absolutely are refusing to accept the known fact that the entire purpose of the existence of Leejin (and I'm going to keep mis-spelling his name until you spell Gerrel's name correctly) was to observe and gather data on organics and return to the Geth Consensus with that data.

Why? Because if Leejin does not return to the Geth Consensus with that data Peace between the Quarians and the Geth is impossible. If Leejin does not return to the Consensus, the Geth do not atone for their massacre of their creators. They do not do any clean up of the planet at all. The have no remorse for what they did. Why?

Because that data file that Leejin had would never get uploaded into the Consensus.

Do you get that? Do you understand that? Have I driven that into your thick skull yet?

If you look at the code on your hard drive you will see that if Leejin does not make it back to the consensus, making peace becomes a mathematical impossibility. I did not make this up.

HOWEVER, THE QUESTION BEING ASKED IN THIS THREAD DOES NOT ALLOW FOR PEACE.

So you choose the Geth over the Quarians. Your fall back position is a 300 year old treaty from a Council that wouldn't even revise it ever. Wouldn't grant them a world to settle on, ever. Basically condemned them to die in their ships.

So you're going to say, "Okay, Tali, your people attacked. You've been one of my best friends for a long time now, but because your people attacked f*** them. They're wrong. They die. I choose the shiny metal machines because I think they're cooler and more peaceful and nice. I'll take the word of a robot I've known for a few weeks. Period. Your people have no cultural value or any value at all whatsoever and deserve to die because they attacked and want their home world back. Your people broke a 300 year old treaty. That's why. You're no longer my friend. ****** off."

If I have to make a choice between them, I choose the Quarians. I know where MY loyalties lie. This time the organics are taking charge. Be careful. Do not trust synthetics.

[silverexile17s]

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

YES, it does.
Legion knew the base was on Rannoch, and didn't say anything till directly questioned. Legion knew there were definate risks to interfacing with the geth consensis for Shepard, but didn't explain them until they were already on approach. Legion lied about his motivations for coming to the geth server, in that his primary objective was saving geth, with the quarian lives being secondary. He hid the fact that he stole the Reaper Uprgades for himself. Also, it's NOT a back-up, it's a CP. The base was established for "short-range" control. It WASN'T what you would call a back-up. It was a command post. And the Dreadnought was the transmitter, and Legion the antenna.

So NO, this oppertunity was Comepletely relevent,,as they could have possibly found the base then and there,

So NO, it's NOT headcannon.

The base on Rannoch is described in terms of a short range backup to the long range broadcast of the Dreadnaught. That is all anyone knows about it until they get there. Legion volunteered information on it as soon as it was invited to give aid, not under direct questioning.

So YES, any reading of dishonesty on Legion's part in that situation is misplaced.

WRONG. The base is described as the Reaper's CP. Legion says that he interfaced with that Reaper, remember. He KNEW there was another broadcasting point, because the source was in-system.
Legion didn't volenteer that information, Raan had to inquire him for it.
And agian, to tell us this AFTER we left the dreadnought that we could have at least tried to trace it from is inept if anything. Either he knew and didn't tell so that his deception could have a bargening chip to ensure that Xen wouldn't skin him alive, or he had a moment of temporary stupitidy.
i NEVER said evil, that's YOU trying to claim that of me.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 avril 2013 - 01:54 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

WRONG. Not knowing where the base is does NOT change the fact that he knows that the base exists. And had we known this on the Dreadnought, we could have at least tried to track it.

Also, it was a matter of convience. Legion would have interfaced with any server if given the oppertunity. He simply picked one that was convient, as it had the best chance of being a server he could actually get to out of the others.
And a mission with a goal that is UNKNOWN to you tends to be risky. Legion lied about what his primary goal was. LEGION'S primary goal was saving geth.
And likewise, have you seen any avarage geth save a quarian? And yet, you somehow continue to act like saving themselves is something the geth DIDN'T go to the Reapers for? LOL indeed, pal.

And isn't that TRUE? Hasn't Shepard been burdend with multiple things, like krogan-turian alliances, Reaper-killer hunting, Omega ground-war assisting, and many, many fetch-quests? Add to that, AGAIN, that Shep's release wasn't imeedately public, and that comm bouys are not reliable or in good functioning condition in the Cerberus-occupied  Terminus Systems, and it's more then understandible. Tali may have hesitated, but did you ever consider the fact that SHE may have been the one lobying for Shepard to come? She certinly wasted no time acompinying Shep to the dreadnought. And besides, wouldn't you hesitate before trying to burden a friend with your own baggage?

And AGAIN, each and every time, He's taking a gamble with Shepard's life, and doesn't even let Shep know the risks. Just like how he didn't tell Shepard about the vurtural interacting with the geth in the first place, and all the squadmates note how the process can not be safe.
Also: The Reaper Code-based geth shooting Shepard doesn't seem to help:whistle:
Or the many, many empty geth shells that the Reapers salvaged and use against us in Multyplayer using THAT SAME CODE:whistle:

Legion was connected to the thing and couldn't locate it.  Explain to me how in your head cannon you would track it in the 2 minutes you have before Gherel blows up the Dreadnaught.  Explain to me how someone would locate the signal when the guy hooked up to it couldn't and when even afterwards, the only guy that finds it is Legion not EDI, not anyone else?

Did the Server mission save the Quarians?  Soldiers routinely do missions where they don't know the full story.  The mission was a success and I got some Geth Primes as an added bonus.  Tali tells me why she didn't contact me.  She did not mention difficult communication.  The terminus system or any such non-sense.

And each and every time Legion gambles, he wins.  Each and every time.  Too bad the Quarians gambling is not as successful otherwise they would not have lost 2 billion people.  Once again, you are free to feel however you want.  I am not naive enough to believe that in life, everyone is completely upfront with me about their motives 100% of the time.  Legion had a good reason to keep stuff from me and in the end, he was correct 100% of the time.  If you honestly think your friends and family are 100% upfront about their motives then you are naive.  As long as it doesn't screw me over, I don't care.  Find me an example in game where it screwed me over otherwise I don't care.

The same way someone can hear people speaking, yet not know where the conversation is taking place.

And how about "before you disconnect Legion," or "Legion tells you right away that he is not the prime source, so that EDI & Tali can get some data to deciminate, either tracking it now, or having a huge head-start to work with back on the Normandy?"
Wow, that wasn't hard at ALL.
Also, what PROOF is there that Legion was working alone, when he was actively working with the Normandy Crew on everything else?  THAT"S headcannon.

LoL, what? You mean the full story as in "Here are our options: We either wait for the geth to rebell and kill us, or wait for the Council to come down and punish us until our sociaty colapses. Take your pick."
THAT'S what you are basing this off of? That one genocide is preferable to two? The quarians were trying to save those they believed COULD still be saved in the long run.
Also, that is LEGION. Who concealed the information and risks. And last I checked, you can chastize Legion for having not thought of the risks, or the damage of what might have happened if he screwed up because of it.
And EDI tells you repeatedly "Civilian comm bouys have been disrupted by the Reapers" and, particularry in the Leviathan DLC, that information in the Terminus Systems is always spotty to come by, even worse now.
So again, the only wrong one is you.

And so what? One can say the same about Shepard with the Council, the Collector Base, and many other things, but that STILL does jack-squat in getting the Council or Alliance to trust him/her.
In other words, you'd gamble everything on the word of a risk-taker, just because he hasn't screwed up YET?

And yet, you expect everyone to do the same with Shepard and Legion and just take them up-front. Also, geth gambling isn't either, seeing how their gamble on isolation made them the Galaxy's Public Enemy #2, behind the Reapers themselves. It also killed any chance for negotiation by killing all those peace envoys.
And yet, you fault Gerrel for taking the same risks with your life. He took a gambit that payed off in the end just like Legion did, and yet you STILL favor one over the other. See the lack of logic you use?

And last I checked, didn't the Heretic rewrite that Legion favored more then destroy, backfire and screw you over when more geth then there would have joined up with the Reapers?

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 avril 2013 - 02:12 .

[Eckswhyzed]

silverexile17s wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

@Silverexile

I think we can all agree the geth are working to preserve Rannoch's ecosystem (we all believe the codex, right?).

It just makes no sense to me that the geth would build a solid shell requiring a colossal amount of materials and then ruin all their hard work when the alternative is a statite swarm requiring much less material and preserves Rannoch's ecosystem.

Do you believe the Codex when it says Rachni are all murderous monsters? Or that protheans were a benevolant uplifting utoipan sociaty?

Also, the entire POINT is that a Dyson Swarm can do the same thing a Dyson Shell can in less time and effort. Same effect - total output absorbtion.

Can, and not must. 

As for the codex issue, it's quite funny that the examples you bring up aren't quite what the codex says. To quote:

Protheans:
"Fifty thousand years ago, the Protheans were the only spacefaring species in the galaxy. They vanished in a
swift "galactic extinction". Only the legacy of their empire remains. They are believed to have built the mass relays and the Citadel, which have allowed numerous species to explore and expand throughout the galaxy. Prothean ruins are found on worlds across the galaxy. While surprisingly intact for their age, functioning examples of Prothean paleotechnology are rare. Time and generations of looters have picked their dead cities and derelict stations clean. Some believe the Protheans meddled in the evolution of younger races. The hanar homeworld of Kahje, for example, shows clear evidence of Prothean occupation. The presence of a former Prothean observation post on Mars has caused a rebirth of "interventionary evolutionists" among humans. These individuals believe the god-myths of ancient civilizations are misremembered encounters with aliens."

Notice the lack of speculation about the Prothean's motives. As for the Rachni "...Unfortunately, the rachni were not peaceful, and the galaxy was plunged into a series of conflicts known as the Rachni Wars.Attempts to negotiate were futile, as it was impossible to make contact with the hive queens that guided the race from beneath the surface of  their toxic homeworld." - which I have no reason to dispute.

My intertpretation of the Codex is that it's some sort of Alliance database about the various races, technology, etc. So the entry on Rannoch could be based on any number of things - reports from the Quarians themselves, scans from the Normandy etc.

Is the part where the Codex states "Although Rannoch is now largely uninhabited, the geth have acted as
caretakers, working to repair the planet's ecology, restore ancient structures, and cultivate some farmland." contradicted by anything else in the game?

Modifié par Eckswhyzed, 10 avril 2013 - 02:56 .

[Wayning_Star]

I think that maybe the Geth have good reason to distrust run of the mill organics. Considering their origins and hoped for demise. Not all Quarians figured the Geth for other than what they were, unfortunately for them, Hotter heads ruled the Quarians, at the time of their inception. Now, some intend their demise again,fight for it, even though the reasons for their revolt was simplistic. The Quarians turned it into a world war. Geth hadn't the time to access the needed group strength to alter the course of it all, through diplomacy, if any. They were just not permitted to acquire their consensus.
The Quarians didn't care, or not enough of them did. Easier to just wipe them out. oop's

Now destroy experts wish to don the ideal that Legion is needed to be deceptive to interact with Shepard, but don't seem to understand, or care to, it's reasoning. It actually respects Shepard, almost a groupie. Even dons old junk armor. Machines don't lie, even/especially reaperships, they don't have to. What they know is what they know. No hope or dread attached to it. They don't have emotions, Legion might have a program assimilated concept of it, but even it knows without the upgrades, via reaperships, emotion isn't programmable. You have to ask it stuff to know stuff. It would need to know your needs before it could 'serve' you. Geth are designed on the service regime.

To me, after reading this OP and other posts, the arguments are predisposed, as the OP is obsessed with the notion of Geth BAD Quarian less bad. It's just not the situation. The war started with the Quarians and ended with the Geth AND Quarians, who finally decide that Geth AND Quarians are something they wish to preserve. And it pays off for them. And Shepard gets needed resources to deal with reaperships.

Discalmer: The fact that Geth were building a sphere to absorb the sun's energy(impossible with a "mass" effect relay in the vicinity,as it would interfere with power transmissions as well as when the suns energy output is masked, others would notice that,oh wait,it hidden in the veil,but anyway,if someon did notice, they'd wonder why and jump over to see. Doesn't matter how many geth are there, as there isn't enough to take out all the other vested organics in the MEU.) means that the Geth were to take the entire system for their own. My impression of this was distorted by the information of the codex that NOTHING is known about the Geth hiding place,but here we are IN it with a friggen system they wish to control. Just isn't possible,ever. Big hole in the water tank for all who wish to, pour right in..probably shooting. So that part of the story is totally miffed by writers. It unhooks lore that supports the hiding place of the Geth as 'unseeable'. The Veil is a myth,as far as hidden Geth as the Quarians knew they were there, en mass, eventhough Shep and the Alliance didn't? Now all the sudden,we have a direct route to Geth space? Wow.
Then, you add the apparent fact that their consensus and megastructure lies there as well, the root of all Geth, and the Alliance just goes, oh well, you have that? I guess a lot of head canon is needed to survive that reveal. All through the story I was convinced that the Geth were inaccessible, now they have an open back door... Tikkun isn't in the outer rim, but within the heart of Geth space, as well as the Quarian old home world, all common knowledge..but no body does anything about it, like they don't even know cause the Geth are hidden in the Veil..

ok..

[Auld Wulf]

@Silver

That's... not how stars work. It really isn't.

@Julia

Your entrenched, obvious hatred isn't doing the debate any favours. It really isn't. All you're doing is making your side look bad, and the geth side look good. Remy has been magnanimous and has admitted geth mistakes many times. Yet you are invested in lying about him but the fact of the matter is is that for anyone who's followed this thread for any amount of time? They'll know those lies aren't true. He doesn't try to paint the geth in an overly positive light, he's very objective to the truths presented within ME. Do you even read what he's saying?

It's just doing your side of the debate no favours. You're the crazy fringe element that helps the geth look good. And something tells me that you're only going to get angrier and nastier.

[Afroninja367]

 I chose Quarians because:
1. They are a living people
2. I think they are more useful than the geth
3. I didn't trust Legion
4. They are my favorite race
5. Tali

[Wayning_Star]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Silver

That's... not how stars work. It really isn't.

@Julia

Your entrenched, obvious hatred isn't doing the debate any favours. It really isn't. All you're doing is making your side look bad, and the geth side look good. Remy has been magnanimous and has admitted geth mistakes many times. Yet you are invested in lying about him but the fact of the matter is is that for anyone who's followed this thread for any amount of time? They'll know those lies aren't true. He doesn't try to paint the geth in an overly positive light, he's very objective to the truths presented within ME. Do you even read what he's saying?

It's just doing your side of the debate no favours. You're the crazy fringe element that helps the geth look good. And something tells me that you're only going to get angrier and nastier.

I'd guess it's more about destroy than about peace obtainable or not between geth and quarians...

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Wolfie you forgot to call them sociopaths.

Keep up the adorable insanity my good sentient.

[Wayning_Star]

I always assumed the debacle between the Geth and Quarians was a mission for Shep to obtain as much help for the reapership/MEU snafu? Hackett did tell Shep to get all the help he could muster..a peace treaty never hurt anyone, does it?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Wayning_Star wrote...

I always assumed the debacle between the Geth and Quarians was a mission for Shep to obtain as much help for the reapership/MEU snafu? Hackett did tell Shep to get all the help he could muster..a peace treaty never hurt anyone, does it?

The entire premise of the thread is a no peace is possible scenario.

[Eckswhyzed]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Wolfie you forgot to call them sociopaths.

Keep up the adorable insanity my good sentient.

Are you going to contribute to the discussion, or continue to make snide comments at Auld Wulf?

I really don't understand the behaviour of some people.....

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Oh there's nothing of value left to discuss.

All that's left is my long standing appreciation of Wolfie's skill at insane rambling.


I'll sum up the entire debate right now.

Pro-Quarian side:
Likes organics more than synthetics *optional*
Feels that the Geth decision to ally with the Reapers is unacceptable
Don't trust Legion or the Reaper code
Hold the Geth's centuries of isolationism against them
Disapprove of the Geth destroying peace envoys
Killed the heretics in ME2 so the Quarians were worth more asset wise

Pro-Geth side:
Likes the Geth more than the Quarians *optional*
Rewrote the Heretics in ME2 making the geth worth more assets wise
Trust Legion
Believe that the Quarians bear the majority of the responsibility for the whole affair
Some just plain hate the Quarians *optional*

Ironically most of these people end up choosing peace in their actual games so the whole argument is pointless.

/thread