4712 réponses à ce sujet

[S.A.K]

@remydat.
Seems like we are getting too worked up about this. Let's try a different approach. I'll give you my reasons for siding with the Quarians. You don't have to comment on them, but just read and understand. Then you tell me why you side with the Geth and I'll do the same. Let's try to keep this friendly. I'll start:
1. Quarians have paid enough for their mistake of starting the MW.
2. Geth killed billions of Quarians including civiliance and signs of WMD usage.
3. Holding the Quarian homeworld with no good reason on their part.
4. Geth isolating themselves from rest of the galaxy and let the organics hate and fear them.
5. Destroying any organics trying to make contact immediately as explained in the wiki.
6. Failure to understand organics and not allowing organics to understand them.
7. Allowing the Heretics who sided with the Reapers to just leave and almost destroy the galaxy and only taking action against them when orthodox Geth are threatened.
8. Wanting to brainwash or destroy the Heretics only to accept Reaper tech themselves.
9. Leaving Quarians with the only option of going to war to retake Rannoch.
10. Taking the cowards way and joining the Reapers at the cost of their own free will when their can't win their own war.
11. Trying to play the innocent victim when they are threatened.
12. Withholding information and trying to paint the Quarians in the bad light.
13. Only one non-hostile Geth is present untill the end of the Rannoch story arc.
14. Tali is the most loyal squad mate out of all so I cannot betray her.
15. Legion who is the only non-hostile Geth, trying to kill Shepard when he makes his choice. Tali or Raan understands and do not turn hostile.
Edit :
16. Quarians help other races once their war is over. They send Turians help even after everything they done. Tali helps that Turian who called her "suit rat" and Kal'reegar and his squad die trying to save some Turians.

Again I clarify these are my opinions and my reasons. I'd like to hear yours.

Modifié par S.A.K, 10 avril 2013 - 05:22 .

[S.A.K]

@remydat. I just saw your last post. I can discuss it point by point just like I did for about 30 pages. Then you'll do the same. This is going to be like the Reaper cycle. Let's try the new way first and try to have a better understanding.

[remydat]

SAK

I am not worked up.  I am completely calm as I type this at work, lol.  I just say stuff for emphasis.  

1.  Quarians tried to exterminate them.
2.  Quarians have never offered any concessions to get their land back.
3.  Quarians never attack or challenge the organics that help put them in the position they are in namely the Council.  The Council doesn't think they have paid enough because they denied them a new planet for 300 years.  Yet the Quarians just sit there and accept the Council but want to go attack the Geth.
4.  Geth say they accept the creators hate and caused them great harm.  I have never heard anyone but Koris admit they were wrong and the rest of the Quarians treat Koris like he is an idiot for acknowledging the truth.
5.  Tali and Legion were speaking to each other and I never see evidence the Quarians seriously discussed peace.  
6.  The Quarians instead of engaging the Geth for fear ADULTS might get shot down like those diplomatc ships instead decide it is better to risk their children's lives in a war by strapping guns to their live ships.
7.  I have yet to see a Quarian or organic help the Geth outside of Shep's influence.  Never.
8.  Legion lies and is ashamed.  Guys like Victus, the Asari and Salarian Councillors, Tali all lie or withhold information from me and instead of hanging their head in shame like Legion, they practically are defiant about it.  
9.  Gherel while he does not lie blows up a ship I am on.  When I confront him, doe he express remorse about his regrettably having to make that decision?  No, he is defiant.  
10.  Legion regrets having to kill the creators in self defense.  He says this clearly.  Gherel has no regrets about killing the Geth.  Tali after the mission admits she would have killed them with no remorse.  The machine regrets killing his enemy.  The organcis are defiant and happy about it.
11.  None of the Quarians who oppose the war have the balls to stand up to the war mongers.  None.  Koris and Tali object but let it happen anyways.  
12.  Koris who is admiral of the Civilian Fleet allows Gherel to force him to put guns on the liveships.  Again, he has no courage to stand in opposition to what he thinks is wrong.
13.  Legion betrays his whole race to save them and by extension the Quarians.  He unlike the Quarians disagrees with the decision his people have made and he FIGHTS.  He doesn't just sit there and say, "woe is me I begged them not to join the Reapers (Tali - go to war) but they didn't listen so I will support their decision because members of the consensus (Tali -Admiralty) have to blindly support the consensus (Admirals and conclave) no matter what.
14.  Gherel ignores an order to stand down from Tali who just saved the Quarians and because he still thinks he can win, he chooses to fire on a defenseless enemy in all non-peace options forcing the Geth or the Quarians exterminate the other.  Everyone follows his command.  No one including Koris jumps in and says no, let's here what Tali has to say.  No one says enough is enough Gherel.  No one.  In no peace options, they all just meekly like Lemmings follow Gherel's order.
15.  In the only peace option in the game, Gherel learns via both options, he can't win.  Given 14 and his general character in the game, it appears he only stops firing because he know he can't win.  Not because he wants peace but because he can't win.
16.  The Geth with the Reaper Code now have the absolute power to exterminate the Quarians.  There is nothing the Quarians and Shep can do about it.  From 14 above we know Gherel always chooses to fire when he thinks he can win.  Always.  Yet the only time the Geth actually exterminate the Quarians is when they refuse to stand down.  Otherwise with the absolute and complete power to exterminate their enemy for the 2nd time in their history they refuse.  
17.  The Geth from 16 above honors the sacrifice of the guy who saved them ie Legion by not exterminate an enemy that has now twice started wars with them.  They honor the sacrifice of a dead machine while Gherel refused to listen to the living Quarian that just saved him.  Gherel had little reason to trust his enemy and the Geth have little reason to trust their enemy.  However, the machines trust their savior and honor him.  The Quarians don't trust Tali or Shep enough to do the same.  That or they simply don't care because based on 14 above in non-peace scenarios they think they can win.
18.  Geth could have exterminated them at the end of the MW and went about their merry way.  They did not.
19.  The Geth's biggest mistakes/bad deeds were the direct result of Quarian aggression.  The Geth are still to blame for those mistakes but the Quarians share in that blame by virtue of being the cause of the Geth distrust of organics.
20.  The Quarians had no reason not to trust the Geth pre-MW aside from their irrational fear and their kissing-ass to the Council.  None.  
EDIT
21.  Once the Quarians acknowledge the Geth have a soul, the Geth immediately go back to serving the Quarians.  They don't just give them their planet back.  They rebuild it for them.  They help them improve their immune system.  There is nothing the Quarians can really offer the Geth.  Nothing.  Yet the Geth go above and beyond to serve their gods who disowned them because ultimately they simply wanted to serve.  That is all.  300 years of bullsh*t and bloodshed and all the Geth wanted to do was serve as they prove post peace.  

I could go on but I think 21 is enough.

Modifié par remydat, 10 avril 2013 - 05:51 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

This is still going on?

Wunderbar.

[S.A.K]

@Remydat.
Many of those are problems with Garrel who is just one quarian and Geth didn't provide any way of contacting them for the last 300 years. But I can accept most of those. Tali or Raan is right there and they can stop Legions upload and Geth wouldn't stand a chance. But either one does. Come to think of it, Shepard never mentions the Reaper code in the peace option.He says Geth are about to return to full strength. Quarians already attacked Geth in their full strength and would have won if not for the Reapers. Hmm...

Both sides seems like selfish dicks before peace. Yet both sides have good qualities. Geth accept they have done great harm to the Quarians and help them recover. Quarians help out the council races who treat them like sh!t. In the end Geth only wanted to survive and Quarians wanted to recover what they lost. I'll still side with Quarians if there was no peace. But I can understand your view point.

Modifié par S.A.K, 10 avril 2013 - 06:31 .

[Argolas]

Argolas wrote...

Just wanted to throw in an interesting Legion quote back from ME2.

"We accept the Creators' hate. We hold their world of origin, though we are only caretakers for it."

Just in case... am I really the only one who thinks this is a very interesting and relevant line for this discussion?

If so, never mind.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

S.A.K wrote...

@remydat. I just saw your last post. I can discuss it point by point just like I did for about 30 pages. Then you'll do the same. This is going to be like the Reaper cycle. Let's try the new way first and try to have a better understanding.

I say we just concede this thread to Remy. We are never going to convince him otherwise. He is going to go over the same points over and over and over again.

@ Remy. You use very low tactics in your debating. You have repeatedly referred to me in the male gender. I am a woman. It is obvious from my gamer tag, and in my profile. I do not appreciate it. It is the same as name calling and a violation of the rules of the forum. Your posts have been quoted several times. So it would be very easy to find them. This is a warning. You can receive a ban for name calling.

So to summarize the thread.

Those who choose the Quarians choose them because

1) the geth annihilated 99% of the Quarians during the Morning War
2) think the Quarians were screwed by the Council
3) don't trust the Geth
4) trust the Quarians
5) think the Quarians have no other choice but to take back their home world for a place to put their people
6) because the Geth sided with the reapers again
7) did not trust the reaper code
8) are friends with the Quarians
9) are following orders from Admiral Hackett

Those who choose the Geth choose them because

1) the Quarians attacked the Geth and violated a council treaty
2) trust Legion or Geth VI
3) think Gerrel and Xen are ass holes and represent the entire Quarian people (I've heard this one)
4) think the Quarians should have settled on another world even though the council wouldn't allow it.
5) put principles over friendships
6) trust the reaper code
7) forgive the Geth for siding with the reapers
8) forgive the Geth for the genocide of the Quarians 300 years earlier

Again the ironic part of this is that most of the people if given the opportunity will make peace.

The two sides will never see eye to eye about this. The discussion is futile.

/thread

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

That's basically what I said earlier.

Didn't work.

I guess Nothing can stop the cycle.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

That's basically what I said earlier.

Didn't work.

I guess Nothing can stop the cycle.

The cycle cannot be broken.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...



The cycle cannot be broken.

You cannot resist

[S.A.K]

@sH0tgUn jUliA
That is pretty much the situation. Us organics are stubborn creatures aren't we.
I actually never hated the Geth or Legion(he is about my 3rd favorite ME2 squad mate). In the end I'll still be making peace and choosing destroy like most other players Lol.

I am just here because I always enjoy a debate.

[remydat]

Shotgun,

I had no idea you were female. I have never read your profile and honestly until you just mentioned your gamer tag I did not even realize that it was Julia. I just quote your response and then as I address each paragraph remove the paragraph and qoutes as I go so I never really concern myself with names as it is already in the quote. That and the way the letters are arranged ie upper and lowercase made me less inclined to actually try and read what it said.

I focus on the debate and the arguments. Again, you can find no post where I personally insult anyone so this is simply my not bothering to read your actual gamertag and was not an insult.

You don't have to concede anything to me.  You are free to believe what you want as I have said.  The purpose of this thread to me is for us to discuss our opinions and why we have them not try and convert the other side.  I have not been trying to convince you of anything.  I have been sharing my opinion as you are free to do.  So I think we are approaching things differently.  I don't expect to convince you nor should you be trying to convince me.  We should simply be explaining our positions.  I am not telling you not to believe what you want.  I am explaining what I believe to be flaws in your logic not to convince you but because that is what people do in a debate.  You point out the flaws of logic of the other side.

Modifié par remydat, 10 avril 2013 - 06:48 .

[Kel Riever]

I would pick the Quarians and it is a pretty easy choice for me.

Because a toaster with free thought is still a toaster.

Kill all the Geth. And then kill all the Cylons. EDI gets a pass, though Six does not.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 10 avril 2013 - 06:43 .

[S.A.K]

Kel Riever wrote...

I would pick the Quarians and it is a pretty easy choice for me.

Because a toaster with free thought is still a toaster.

Hahaha. Can't argue that one.

[CronoDragoon]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The two sides will never see eye to eye about this. The discussion is futile.

It's only futile if your goal was to "win" the debate. I leave this thread on the same side I came in - I'll pick the quarians. But I have a better understanding of the argument for the geth and more importantly the argument for the quarians. In that sense the thread has been very useful.

[Eckswhyzed]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

So the only heating of Rannoch is going to occur from radiation, i.e. light actually hitting the planet. So any light that wouldn't normally hit the planet has to be reflected off something. And if the Dyson sphere is 100% efficient, it will be absorbing all of the light that hits it and not reflecting anything, therefore Rannoch will not be heated.

And if you don't build such a sphere then the light that missed the planet will just keep going; if the planet was hospitable before then building a Dyson sphere that perfectly absorbs all radiation will not change anything (and might in fact fry the planet if it doesn't absorb enough)

Exacty. In the hypothetical scenario of a 100% reflective Dyson sphere, Rannoch would be toast

@remydat

That sounds reasonable, but I'm more inclined to agree with this link: http://www.aleph.se/...onFAQ.html#WIND

[Eckswhyzed]

I'd also like to add that astrophysics is not really my field, so I'm open to anyone showing me some evidence about the solar wind.

[Da Don Giovanni]

Kel Riever wrote...

I would pick the Quarians and it is a pretty easy choice for me.

Because a toaster with free thought is still a toaster.

Kill all the Geth. And then kill all the Cylons. EDI gets a pass, though Six does not.

You can't have your cake and eat it too buddy, EDI dies along with the Geth if you choose destroy.

Again, I've said it before: %99.99 of Quarian supporters are hypocrites, they love EDI and can't imagine her dying, but will kill the Geth no problem.

EDI is a toaster with free though, yet she gets a pass.

The Geth are EXACTLY THE SAME THING AFTER LEGION UPLOADS THE CODE, but Quarian supporters want them dead.

Double-Standard Hypocrites, the lot of ya.

Modifié par Da Don Giovanni, 11 avril 2013 - 01:33 .

[CronoDragoon]

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

Again, I've said it before: All Quarian supporters are hypocrites, they love EDI and can't imagine her dying, but will kill the Geth no problem.

This is hurting your credibility.

[silverexile17s]

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

But then they changed all that and created military bases and servers on Rannoch anyway, and made it a fortress world.
And it's more like leaving flowers at a grave, and then making peace and moving on, letting the land be used to move to their future. They are living beings, it's stupid to think they won't move on from their remorse sooner or later.
The geth do not need climate or ecology, so no, there ARE no other considerations.

Perfection and technological advancement is the reason for living, as stated BY LEGION HIMSELF IN ME2.

So NO, I DO know what I was talking about. And last I recall, you said that since Rannoch is an arid world with an orange star that gives off less energy then Earth's. That means that Tikkun ISN'T an ideal system for it after all.

No, it's ideal because of that fact, it's easier to construct satelites around a less active star, also there arn't a lot of inner starsystem planetary bodies that will cause gravitational shifts as they pass near the satelites.

The closest planet to their sun is Rannoch.

They also got an asteroidfield rightoutside Rannoch that provides cheap construction materials for their superproject and it's easier to build if you got materials in system than if you have to import everything, it's been mentioned before in the ME series.

To sum it up, there is nothing wrong about their construction plans, noone in game seemed the least bit concerned about it.
The starsystem is ideal with an relatively manageble sun and plenty of construction materials in system.
It's also the system wich originaly held the largest amount of Geth habitants.
Makes perfect sense.

It's a much better system than Sol for such a project. I would pick it over Sol any day.

And yet there were already enough clusters to distinguish it as a Dyson Sphere. It's smaller then avarage stars, meaning that any lost sunlight is even more detrimental to the environment of the planets in the system because the output isn't as high.

And that STILL doesn;t explain the massive geth presance on the supposedly forbiddon-to-walk-on Rannoch. Jamming towers, bases, servers, defensive foundries. Likely manufacturing plants. The geth aren't making it look like Rannoch is untouched, compared to Legion telling you that none of the quarian world are occupied.

There are STILL other systems, like the Ma-at system, near Dohlen (Haestrom's system) that had another small star. There were other systems the geth could have used. The ONLY thing I can see that's different about Tikkun is that it's where the Perseus Veil's Mass Relay is loacted. Nothing a fleet couldn't keep safe, and not a reason to make Rannoch the core of geth territory,

[silverexile17s]

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
...
3. I still don't hear the infromation being volenteered without asking.
Volenteering that info would have been stating "Shepard-Commander, there is something we must tell you. It is a matter of importance." Something along the lines of that. It's ANYTHING but a "false reading."
Also, Legion saying he interfaced with "The Old Machine" no plural means that he knew it was a single Reaper behind this, and that the broadcasting point was close.
...

So because the conversation went, L:"Let me help you", R:"Ok, what can you tell me about X Y X?", L:"Well, XYZ is 123" and not just L:"Let me help you. XYZ is 123" Legion is not volunteering information, and only responding under direct questioning? That just doesn't make any sense as a conclusion, and, yes, it is a plainly obvious false reading of the scene.

As for everything else you posted, I responded to it already in the quote of mine you posted; you simply repeated your argument with no/flimsy supporting facts.

Because this is information we needed like an hour ago when we were in the position to TRACK and FIND it. This was something he should have "voulunteered" long ago, something he should have spoken about INSTANTLY.
...

Shep wasn't in a position to track and find the Reaper; Shep was in a position to disable to signal and stop the Geth from destroying the Quarians. Repeating yourself in an absolute fashion with upper cased words doesn't make it true.

This "track the signal" idea is pure head-cannon. From the conversation with Legion on the Dreadnaught, Shepard already knew Legion was being used to boost a Reaper signal. If tracking that signal back to the source was a good idea, Shepard could have done that anyway.

- The fact that Legion interfaced with a single Reaper is irrelevant, since Reapers do not need to be nearby in order to transmit a signal, as evidenced by the Reaper to Collector control in ME2
- The fact that there was an secondard base nearby with a Reaper to Geth signal that was not in place (and so untrackable) is irrelevant, since, even when Shep knew about the single Reaper and the Rannoch Base later on, no one knew there was a Reaper there until it showed up.

So, in summary, no one would have thought to track a signal back to the secondary base which was not in use.

silverexile17s wrote...
...
For the other things, YOU are the one that had no facts or information supporting your argument.

Well, I actually have a conversation quote in my response. You just ignored that and repeated yourself.

Now, I get the sense, that you're just going to repeat yourself again, so good luck with that.

EDI has Reaper tech, and source codes in the IFF and her core. You are really going to force-feed BS and say she couldn't have done something if given the chance?

Also, at the time, Shepard thought Legion WAS the source of the Reaper signal. No one (no certin geth) TOLD her that the primary signal source was somewhere else.
-And COUNTER evidenced by Sovergein in ME1 being in close proximity to Saren, and the Citadel. Also, Herbinger is the oldest Reaper, the First Reaper, and the Collectors havd been thralls for 50,000 years. And were all controlled through a spicific antenna (Collector General) that Harbinger used to command them.
-They STILL would have known that there was another base, and that it was where the signal was comming from. THAT'S the point- they would have had the next target lined up already.

So, IN SUMMERY, no one thought to look for a base they didn't KNOW about, but WOULD have known had Legion said something sooner.

So, AGAIN, you're wrong.

[remydat]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

Exacty. In the hypothetical scenario of a 100% reflective Dyson sphere, Rannoch would be toast

@remydat

That sounds reasonable, but I'm more inclined to agree with this link: http://www.aleph.se/...onFAQ.html#WIND

From your article.  The bold is my point.  The Magnetic Field deflects much of the suns heat so that we only get something like .00001% of it.  So without even seeing your link I speculated the solar winds being stuck in a bubble would degrade the magnetic field just like it does for Mercury and Venus who get more solar wind because they are closer to the Sun.  The below seems to be suggesting the Solar Wind degrades the magnetic field so much that there isn't actually a magnetic field at all.  So you have stripped away one of the main defenses the Earh has from the harmful radiation.  It then notes more radiation would reach the ground.  So imagine going from .000001% of the suns heat making it to the ground to 100% of it making it to the ground?  Again, I am not sure the exact numbers but this is my point.  The planet's termperature would have to increase because since it is within the bubble the sun's heat would hit the planet before reaching the bubble.  And you have degraded the magnetic field so much it does not exist so you are not getting the ful force of the suns heat.

Thus my point was it makes more sense to have the planet outside the bubble to avoid having to deal with this problem and having to create megaengineering systems to provide a magnetic field.  No matter how you collect the energy you still need to transmit it back to the planet so why waste money and resources building the bubble outside Earth ie a great circumference and hence more material and also have to create a magnetic field articifically plus still transmit the energy back to the planet when you can cut out the first two costs by sticking the bubble inside the Earth's orbit and only have to spend money tranferring the energy back to the planet which you have to do in either scenario.  If you still want the planet to get heat directly from the Sun then just program the satellites to only collect heat from the sides of the Sun not currently shining on the earth.  The side that is changes because of the orbit which is why you still need it to be a sphere.  Seems like easier to program satellites than it is to re-create a magnetic field which problem would require alot fo the energy you are collecting.

It should be noted that there would be no auroras in a dyson shell, since there is no magnetic field. This also would also mean that more radiation would reach the ground from the sun since it cannot naturally be deflected (although one could imagine megaengineering systems to provide an artificial magnetic field).

Modifié par remydat, 10 avril 2013 - 08:50 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

Didn't I tell you a 120 page dissertation is only useful for toilet paper or to heat my fireplace?

I love my siblings.  I will love my kids when I have them.  If the alternative is strapping guns to their homes and taking them to war then I will exhaust all peace options however unrealistic or impossible they appear.  I have nothing to lose by doing so except at worst my life.  My life is worth the lives of my siblings and children.  There is no justification in my world for the Quarians to not have spent those 6 months actively in peace talks.  Tali and Leejin were talking before Lejin went dark and there is no evidence the Quarians ever officially negotiated peace or determined from the Geth their conditiosn for peace.  None.

Further more, the rules of war are clear.  If you arm civilians or place them with military personal then one of two things happens.  They are either enemy combatants or you are guilty of trying to use human shields.  Those are the only two options and under both if they get killed the fault lies with you and not the enemy that kills them.  The former is actually better because you can claim you conscripted them which a government has a right to do.  The latter is worse because human shields can be considered a war crime.  So I don't need you long winded opinion.  I need you to understand the rules of war and explain to me why the Quarians arming or mixing their civilians with the miliatary is not one of the above two things.

And finally, Leejin found the signal, end of story.  There is nothing in the game that says EDI could find it without Leejin

You did, hence the reason that I called you out on being prejudice, sociopathic, amoral, cruel, ect.
The altertnitive is to DIE. To say that you would rather die and let your kids and siblings die, for the sake of your pride - for the sake of trying to prove a point - that's amoral. If anything, it shows that you could care LESS about them or their well-being, as long as you get your last word in. That you'd gladly throw them under the bus if it ment you could prove a point that's irrelevent now, given that war is the only option left.
But hey, if you entire family's death is worth it, go ahead and burn them at the stake for your pride.
I don't agree with him most of the time, but there is one instance where Javik has a point on something;
"Because you still believe that this war will end with your honor intact. Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honor matters."
"The Silence is your answer."
Inflexible morals can cause just as much harm as having no morals at all. That's why @DenionSlayer and @sH0tgUn jUliA hate metagamers that blindly follow one side and don't consider all options and the logic and reasoning behind them.
If they are on the verge of the end, and there was a massive threat that was assured to kill you when it reaches you, and the only hope if reclaiming the homeland, anyone that REALLY cared about their kids and siblings would take whatever chance they believed would work. Not risk everything on an unprovible maybe against an enemy that has always been ruthless. They actually CARE about their families enough to not gamble their lives like that. Unlike someone else.
It's no more dangerous them Moses' exodus, so stop trying to tote that as a point.
Also, FIY, LEGION cut the contact after the geth sent out a call demanding he return. It was NOT the quarians that sent him off.
Also, AGAIN, Tali straight-up tells you that she and Legion went to the Admrials and presented this, but without any proof, Gerrel and Raan didin't believe in Legion's word. (I leave Xen out of this because she would not change her views no matter what).

And when the hell do rules cut it?
So a terrorist comes before you. He's responcible for a dozen bombings. Yet right now, he's unarmed. You are saying that you should let him go and bucther more people just because he isn't armed now?
Also, those rules break all the time. Like when military are evacuating noncombatants and civilians. THAT'S a situtation in which they are togther, yet it's NOT in your little slate of rules, is it?
You are basically saying that butchering those million or so civilians is okay to kill the hundred or so soldiers guarding them. How sociopathic. If you have ANY shread of morals, you would not shoot on an enemy that didn't fire, or are incapable of firing. And just now, you have basically stopped trying to pin the deaths on quarians, and saying that's it's okay to butcher civilians. That it's fine to gas an entire city of millions to take out one squad of soldiers.
How prejudcied. Your morals are nothing short of the mosntorus ideals used by the genocidal madmen, or ruthless dictators: inflexible lack of morals. You already tried using Godwin's Law more then once in this debate when you couldn't refute the point yourself.

And finally, "The Nromandy is EDI. She sees and feels through the sensors."
She monitors every strip of commnication, and every data process made.
Anything done using Normandy's equipment and sensor data was done with help from EDI.
END OF STORY.

All you have done is show you prejducied and amoral YOUR views are, and that you think you are God and derserve to pass ultimate judgement on one race for doing something you consider a crime, yet defend another race for doing the same exact thing, because - Godwin.


It seems like I was wrong on ONE thing: you are more like Xen then you are a Heretic geth.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 avril 2013 - 08:51 .

[Auld Wulf]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

Again, I've said it before: All Quarian supporters are hypocrites, they love EDI and can't imagine her dying, but will kill the Geth no problem.

This is hurting your credibility.

It would be hurting his credibility if he was wrong and a voice speaking out against the majorioty. A commonly held viewpoint can't hold credibility. When one of the most reasonable and objective debaters here (Remydat) is noticing hypocrisy and hate? Well, that's when you know it's a problem.

I've pointed out how quarian-supporters tend to push quarians as having an Aryan-like perfection going for them, the true master race, the peoples who're unable of doing any wrong. This is a truth. If you look at Remydat and the people he's debating with, Remy has often admitted the flaws and errors of the geth, and that they are not a perfect people. But if he presents the notion that the quarians are imperfect, it creates a crapstorm. It's almost like dealing with people who have a religious or sexual fetish for something, it verges on being fanatical.

Admittedly, there are less bad and more bad instances of this, here, but it's a common-held thing. Try and find me a quarian supporter who admits that Gerrel should be deposed, or that the quarian governement could be capable of corruption, or that the quarians aren't the best people for not opposing that corruption. Many quarian-supporters talk hatefully about the geth and how the geth are so evil for not doing anything about the heretics, and that's been acknowledged, Remy acknkowledged it. But say anything to slight the Aryan-supremacy of the quarians? You'd better be prepared to be ganged up on by quarian fanaticists.

And therein lies the problem. Geth fans are willing to give a little and be reasonable, geth fans are willing to admit teh errors of their side. Quarian fans will Universally not admit to any flaws or be reasonable. Quarian-supporters won't see the geth as anything other than abominations, whilst the geth side see the quarians as just people, capable of beauty AND error.

This is why the undertone of this debate has always felt more like a debate with people who are horribly racist in all things versus people who aren't. People who can be reasonable, will give, and will understand all perspectives and sides of an argument, and people who can't. It's like the quarian-supporters have so much invested in racism.

I have long spoken of how much I like Koris, I sing his praises. But I haven't seen a single quarian-supporter singing the praises of Legion and all the good he's done.

If that doesn't make you think, then you're part of the problem.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 10 avril 2013 - 08:59 .