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[silverexile17s]

RandomDrippings wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

RandomDrippings wrote...

remydat wrote...

RandomDrippings wrote...

Silver, did you say needlessly butchered people in the morning war? The quarians attacked them and they defended themselves. The quarians were not open to peace with the geth. If they were then they would not have fired the first shot. And I never said that Shepard was in no danger while the battle with sovereign raged on. But Hackett never once shot at Shepard. He shot at a reaper above Shepard to stop the reapers from committing genocide and destroying the heart of gal acting civilization. The quarians shot at a geth dreadnought while Shepard, 2 of his squad mates, and one of their own admirals were on board so they could commit genocide. Still sound the same?

You don't understand machines are not suppose to shoot back when shot at by Quarians.  It's in the Quarians Anonymous Support Group Rulebook.  Rule number 7 to be precise.

When Gherel refuses to stand down and the whole fleet of 17 million Quarians shoot at the Geth, it is just pure evil on our part to not blame the Geth for the Quarian's decision to fire.  Not ony are those a** at fault for the Quarian's firing, they have the f**king audacity to fire back.  We are clearly psychopathic, amoral, cruel and have sentenced 17 million people to die when only a few of them ie all 17 million decided to comply with Gherel's order to fire.  You see even though all 17 million of them complied and fired at the Geth, deep down in their heart of hearts, they don't want to be there and so the Geth who obviously are equipped with Quarian deep down in their heart of hearts monitors know that they don't want to be there and so should ignore the fact that this small group of 17 million Quarians are firing at them and allow themselves to be killed.

All of this was explained at the last General Meeting so please don't try and be logical here.  If you repent now you can still be saved and you get a free Quarian bobblehead when you celebrate your conversion by destroying a machine of your choosing just for sh*ts and giggles.

Haha i cant believe i missed that part, was that in the silver exlusive version of the codex?

BOTH WRONG.
From the top, YES they DID butcher needlessly in the Morning War. After all, 2 billion died. You expect me to believe that they ALL were fighting? Sorry, but I don't subscribe to headcannon. The geth retaliated with CHEMICAL WEAPONS. (The quarians worlds are being managed by the geth for toxin damage. Only chem weapons could leave toxins that would persist for 300 years. And the quarians using such weapons is nonsensical, since the geth would be immune to such weapons, having been built as labor spicifically MEANT to handle dangerous materials that would harm quarians. Therefore, the logical result is that the geth used these weapons.)
Also, FYI, it was either shoot the geth, or have the Council come down on them and kill the geth themselves, and then punish the quarians for creating them in the first place (the Council would have come in because they, like the quarians, would have assumed the geth were inacapble of fighting back).

Also, Shepard was in the Tower, which was RIGHT UNDERNEATH SOVERGIEN. THAT is the EPITIMY of shooting at Shepard to take down the bigger enemy.
The quarians shot at the dreadnought because the alternitive was to either let the dreadnought come back online and kill them, let it come online later and hunt them down, or let it come online and lead the now-Reaper controled geth against the rest of the galaxy. So YES, SAME EXACT PREMISE of sacrificing the few to save the many.

Besides, with Shepard's track record, it would only have been surprising to Gerrel if Shepard DIDN'T make it. After all, Shep and Tali got through the Alerei.

And @remydat, with snide remarks like that, you actually wonder why I called you a ****** way back when, and nobody defended you?
First off, it's NOT all 17 million people. The majority of quarians are simply riding along. They aren't even supposed to be in the fight. They are the transports that were supposed to hang back while the tanks (Gerrel's fleet) and the trucks (Raan's fleet) cleared the way back home. Being armed was a precaution - the civilians were never ment to be in the fight. Also, AGAIN, NO REASON TO TRUST THE GETH. Also, on an interesting note about the Codex, it lists the QUARIANS STOPPING FIRST, and that the geth stood down AFTER the quarians did. NOT the other way around.

Also, the geth are the one's that can somehow manuver hundreds of fighters to intercept incomming fire with perfect accuricy, yet CAN'T disarm and disable the giant liveships? BULL. They CHOSE to kill all quarians. NOT forced to kill them, CHOSE.

Get your damn facts fight and actually LOOK at this stuff sometime, will you?

Thats actually exactly what i expect you to believe. Why? becuase they did when they went to fight the geth a second time. Dragging people into war that didnt want to be a part of the fighting. Just like in legions memories where they tried to kill the geth even though not everyone wanted to. They dragged the civilians in to war with the geth again even though they wanted nothing to do with the fighting. gerral dragged raan into shooting at the dreadnought even though she did not want to. The quarians cant do anything alone. its all or nothing with them, its just part of their culture. i think it was you who said that but im not sure. And why shouldnt the geth use chemical weapons? they were in the twilight of their sentience, i.e. were not as intelligent as they are now. And you expect me to believe that as the geth started fighting back more and more quarians didnt jump into the fray? And the council would have punished them for creating AI right? well maybe they shouldnt have created an AI. which is a crime.
And how is shooting at something above shepard the Epitome of shooting at shepard? the epitome would be someone grabbing a gun and shooting directly at while hes eating dinner or something. How about lets put you on a warship, and let 50,000 planes fly by and drop bombs on it, and give someone else scuba gear with a ton of oxygen and put them 100 feet below the warship. you tell me who stands the better chance of survival and see if you still feel its the same. And what kind of choices are those? Let it come online and just kill you? or let it come online and play cat and mouse with you? How about a tactical retreat? fall back, regroup, get a plan together that does not involve you getting caught off guard by a dreadnought (again), and come back with the normandy instead of your glass cannon civilians. And yes i can see that gerral really took shepards track record into account. "Hey i know we know the geth better than anyone so we know they dont use escape pods, but hey lets start shooting at the geth ship with shepard aboard because he is commander shepard. he'll make it no problem."  Is that how you think gerral was thinking?
And it is ALL 17 million quarians. The quarians have 50,000 ships. you mean to tell me that they couldnt find some ships to house the "non combatants" while the rest went to war? No because arming the civilians was a critical part of their plan. The civilians Agreed to go because their leader agreed to go. They didnt even consider becoming non combatants until they lost their leader. And if the civilians were never meant to be in the fight, why would all they turn their civ ships into dreadnoughts? if they were only meant to be transports, as you claim, then why would they need that sort of firepower? They were obviously meant to be in the fighting, you have to admit that that.
And when you say the geth chose to kill the quarians im a little confused. I just played that scene last night (chose the Geth of course) and as you say, reaper code upgraded geth did block attacks with fighters. But also the quarian command also told everyone to not stop firing. How many ships do the geth have to lose before you give the ok to kill your attackers? The quarians would not stop. With tali and/or koris dead they are not open to peace. This is proved in all playthroughs. The geth have no reason to believe peace with the quarians is possible. They allowed the quarians to escape 300 years ago. As a result, The quarians came back, destroyed their megastructure along with millions of geth programs, lowered their intelligence to point where its acceptable to join the reapers, and tried to take rannoch from them. What do you think would happen if they let the quarians go again?

By the way, even though your posts come out a bit hostile i am rather enjoying these debates ha

AGAIN, DEAD WRONG. It is both physically and proportionatly impossible that every single one of the 2 billilon quarians, (men, woman, children, sick, elderly) were actively fighting. Especally since the kill rate of the quarians were 99% Even unarmed people, like the miners of Adas, were brutally slaughtered, even though they posed NO threat to the geth. Not even aliens, like Erynia's asari spouse was spared (Erynia spicifically says her bondmate, and asari, was butchered by the geth. Her bondmate was studing quarian music when she was killed). Also, the Morning War took a full year. Rannoch was the last world to fall. In other words, the geth launched their own invasion of Raanoch and drove the quarians out. At some point, the GETH became the agressors in the war. THEY launched retalitiry strikes with zero concern for civilian casualties. Din't try BSing me about every quarian being armed and fighting. They weren't a Hierarchy like the turians. If anything, only 4% of the quarians race were likely military. (aprox 68 million quarians out of 2.1 billion or so)

Also, those recordings were BEFORE the Morning War. BEFORE. They do NOT represent the events carried out during the actual fighting. ALSO, you are seriously going to judge two entire races based on 2 - 3 videos? From a Reaper-infested server? That's like meeting Kelly Chambers and using her views on aliens as a template of how everyone in Cerberus must be like. Biased and unreliable as an accurate sample to judge one race on, let alone two.
ALSO, in case you didn't notice, Magara's death was caused by a door breach, meaning his death my have been completely accenditental.

Also, WRONG about the quarians being forced. The Admirals cannot force the fleet anywhere unless all five agree to it. Shorthand: Gerrel, Raan, and Xen can't force the fleet into a war unless Tali and Koris agree to it. Otherwise, the Conclave senete must put the matter to vote against the Migrant Fleet. So, contrary to your statement, the majotiy of quarians agreed to this. They may not have wanted to fight, but they STILL chose to fight, because they believed the only alternitive was to die in space.

Also, the chem weapons are proof that the geth didn't give a flying flip to civilian death. Contrary to what everyone keeps trying to headcannon, the geth were not the abused defenders. They were equally the agressors in the Morning War.
Also, AGAIN, you show lack of knowledge of the lore, as anyone that did know lore would know The quarians DIDN'T INTEND TO CREATE AN A.I. The entire REASON they panicked was ENTIRELY BECAUSE the geth were NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A.I.s. The geth became A.I.s on their OWN. Creating A.I.s was the LAST THING the quarians wanted to do. And Yes, it IS a crime - a crime they ACCEDENTALLY caused. It was NOT intentonal, and hence caused them to panic on Council repremands for it.

Aug, AGAIN, The Citadel Tower is right underneath Sovergien. In other words, DEAD CENTERED on where Shepard is standing. You should KNOW this, because in ME1, you enter the Citadel Tower Right under it. It's like shooting a target when the friendly is standing RIGHT BEHIND IT. Sovergien's position is the same as Shepard's - the Citadel Tower. You can try and twist semantics however you want, but the fact remains - Shepard is in the same exact place Sovergien is when the Alliance starts Shooting.
And AGAIN, the entire POINT is that those choices are what Gerrel AVOIDED when he shot the dreadnought. Now that the geth are Reaper-controlled, you actually think they are going to stay in the Perseus Veil? NO. The Reapers will send them out into the rest of the galaxy. The quarians can't run from them anymore - no one can. It's either retreat, and risk being hunted down, or stand and fight. Tactical retreat is impossible with that thing just sitting there, possibly already coming back up. If the DO perform a retreat, it could come online and hammer their backsides as they try to turn and run. THEN what?
Also, FYI, the last time the fought geth, it was in the Morning War, back when the geth didn't HAVE ships of their own. The geth built their own ships after the Morning War. (It's spicifically listed in the Codex that the technology the geth have has changed and advanced in their 300 year exile, as they have developed their own weapons, and even unique platforms, like the geth "Hopper" and geth "Armature." Ships of their own and stations of original construction are in the same catagory.) So don't accuse the quarians on something they have no knowledge about. Also, I think the track record Gerrel is basing off of consists of the Alerei, and the Battle of the Ciatdel.

And YES, that's the SPICIFIC POINT of why they went to war in the FIRST PLACE - Because they DIDN'T have anywhere for their noncombatants to go.
The fleet can't be split up over vast distances, because the military ships are reliant on shuttle runs from the civilian ships to keep re-supplied. The civilian ships have all the resources (food, fuel, medicine, repair materials, ect.). Without them, the military fleets are inacapble of sustained conflict against an enemy like the geth. (the quarians are wanted in the Reaper War for logictsics: civilian evac, troop transport, supply running, Crucible construction - all things they CAN'T do while overcrowed with civilians). And likewise, because the civilian ships aee so fragile, they need constant protection by being in close proximity to the military fleet, so that no enemy can amnush them from the back. Because if a liveship is speared, half the fleet starves and dies. Also, the liveships are giant greenhouses for food. They are supply ships. And there are only three liveships in the fleet. And THEY are supposed to stay back from the fighting. Arming them was precautionary - a safety measure so that the civilians would not be completely defensless if the geth somehow breached the front lines. They were NOT ment to be actively fighting. Just equiped to if the situation forced them to defend themselves. Hackett & Udina had every civilian ship in the Alliance armed as a safety precaution too, I might add.
But the geth's Reaper code changed all that, and forced the civilian ships to fight too. The majority of civilians are NOT actively participating in the fight - they are basically on the transports, doing nothing but hunkering down in the holds, hoping everything works out.

The geth are able to manuver their fighters so perfectly, able to block the incoming fire with perfect accuricy. And yet you expect me to believe they couldn't disable those liveships? or the Civilian ships? The point is that they already showed they had the targeting capasity to disable those ships if they wanted to. They didn't. They were not forced to kill the quarians. They CHOSE to kill the quarian civilians.
And again, you fail to realize that the SAME is true for the quarians: they have no proof of their own that the geth want peace either. Not until Shepard gets on the line.
And AGAIN, wrong. Legion says that thousands of programs died. NOT millions. Thousands. Also, the scan of Rannoch shows that there are about a billion geth platforms on Rannoch, with even higher numbers of programs on the world. The geth did NOT lose the majority of their race when the megastructure was hit. Rather, they lost the central hub of their consensis, and were unable to network together in large enough groups to fight back without Reaper aid, hence why they accepted the deal.

See the points I'm making here?

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 avril 2013 - 01:02 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Sliver,

I didn't think I would have to explain this to you Silver but if 10,000 people are on a ship and the ship is firing, those 10,000 people are effectively firing.  The person being shot at can't magicallly kill just the dude firing and has to shoot down the ship that has 10,000 people on it and is currently firing at it.  No soldier says to himself, well I wonder if the pilot flying this ship really wants to kill me or is it just the dude controlling the guns.  Maybe the engineer really wants to be my friend.

And I am not talking about any other conflict.  I am talking about the war in ME3.  The codex proves nothing.  The game clearly shows us Gherel saying the Geth are completely vulnerable and the Quarian ships firing on a completely vulnerable enemy.  In no peace options the Geth kill the Quarians because they continued to shoot at them.  The reasons they are doing so are irrelevant to the person currently being shot it.

DEAD WRONG.
If a ship is full of civilians, you really think those civilians have a say in how the command crew works? You think that the avarage civilian is able to go to the bridge and do something. No.
AGAIN, you fail to comprehend. The civilian ships are like jiant transports. The DRIVERS are shooting, but the people inside are just there. They are NOT combatants, because they are NOT armed, nor actively shooting from their segregated cargo holds, and they are NOT living shields, because they voulentearily agreed to come here.
You can easily kill the drver of the transport shooting you WITHOUT having to kill the civilians aborad. The geth ALREADY demonstrated they were fully capable of such advanced calculations when they blocked incoming fire with perfect accuracy. They simply chose not to. The geth willingly murdered the quarians. They slaughtered them when they had every oppertunity to let them go.
END of story.

AGAIN, you refuse to acknowledge the Codex. AGAIN, you take word of mouth as the unltimate soruce of info. And you WONDER why so many abandon you in the debate as unreasonable. AGAIN, completely vunerible does NOT mean they stopped shooting. It likely means barriers are down, and they have lost all sense of coordination. NOT that they are defenseless.
ALSO, even if they were, the geth are viewed as hating organics. Everyone thinks the geth are as genocidal as the Reapers, and that the geth are "monsters that have to be put down, because they will never stop." That's how EVRERYONE IN THE WIDER GALAXY sees the geth. No differend then how they saw the Rachni, or the Krogan. The moment the quarians learn different, they STOP. 
If the Reapers suddenly became vunerable, would YOU stop shooting at them? Because you are making it sound like you would have let Sovergien run at the Citadel.

And AGAIN, it's revealed in the Codex (It's cannon no matter HOW much you try to headcannon it away. Deal with it)
That the geth powered down AFTER the quarians did.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

I did adress those points. This is the first time you haven't adressed what I said.

I already told you that point one was WRONG because you thought the Admirals shoud gamble 17 million lives on a single rouge geth just because one quarians says so. That's about as effective as Shepard vouching for the Reapers being real, which WASN'T.

I told you that number two was WRONG, because you tried to argue that killing every bystander in your line of sight in responce to one gunman is sound moral thinking. "hey, it worked for Saren, right?" You DO know that Saren isn't a good moral compass, and not someone you want to emulate, right?

Number three was WRONG because you made the assertation that the entire war was fuled by one-sided quarian hate for the geth, when hate had nothing to do with why they marched on the geth. It was soley because they needed their world back, and had nothing to prove, or even suggest the geth would ever willingly return it. Tali even tells you on the Alerai (talk at the console, pick "That's a bad idea" then "Then take it back." to hear her admit this). that the quarians feel remorseful for what they did to the geth in the Morning War, and they regret how they panicked and tried to kill them. In fact, she seems to suggest that most quarians hate themselves for how their people paniced and put their own survival over the geth's, to save face with the Council because of their fear of them. Hell, she even admits that remorse over that was why the quarians haven't tried to take Rannoch back these past 300 years. The quarians don't hate the geth, conrtary to your statements. They simply saw no other option to get Rannoch back for their civilians to survive the Reaper War, especally since Legion's subsiquent dissiperance made it clear the geth had no interist in talking anyway.

Satisfied?

And again, I told you, the geth and quarians have the same trait: Lack of mutual trust, or proof that the other can be bartered for peace with.

The Admirals are not gambling 17 million lives.  They are talking.  Talking does not kill 17 million people.  Legion disappears, sending a single ship into the PV doesn't risk 17 million lives.  So you are confused.

They are not killing bystanders Silver.  They are shooting down ships firing at them.  It doesn't matter how many people in those ships don't want to be there.  The Ship is shooting at them and to stop the ship from shooting, they shot it down.  Under our rules of war, the Quarians are at fault because they have either turned their civilians into enemy combatants or they have turned them into human shields.  Until you can find me documented proof this is not the case then there is nothing more to discuss.  The rules of war don't change because you like the Quarians and want to defend them.

Pretty sure some of those 17 million Quarians hate the Geth.  There are multiple reasons they went to war and mutliple reasons why the Quarians supported it.

AGAIN, it's a proposition that went nowhere, because Legion had no proof that the geth wanted peace, and after being recalled, the lack of contact made it clear that the geth felt the same. The geth's track record for killing diplomatic envoys is 100%. It's hard to agrue with odds like that, remember? Sending any ships is basically an effort in futility. And devoting resoruces to a futile effort when the Reapers are comming is risking lives.

WRONG. It is not impossible to kill the driver of an armed convoy without hitting the civilians in the transport. The geth already demonstrated they had the capasity to make such calculations when they used thousands to individual fighters to block incoming enemy shots with perfect accuracy. They can do that, yet you expect me to believe it's impossible to shoot off a set of hastily-welded on guns from civilian tugs? Please don't make me laugh. "Rules of War" don't scanction mass murder. Not when other options are clearly and redily  avalible. There were other options open to the geth. They just ignored them. The geth CHOOSE to kill the quarian civilians. There is no two ways about it. The quarians were NOT combatants because they were not armed. The people shuttling them around were. And they were NOT living shields, because they willingly agreed to be transported to Rannoch. They do NOT meet either of the criteria you have presented.

And WRONG. If that were true, the Dorn's statement about the civilians not wanting a war would not exist. They didn't want a war, but chose it for the sake of having a homeworld. I already told you where you can find Tali telling you that the quarians are remorsfull for the Morning War, and that guilt has been what stopped them from retaking Rannoch prior to now.
You can say whatever you want, but it doesn't change the truth: the quarians did this because they believed the alternitive was death. Same as the geth.

[silverexile17s]

S.A.K wrote...

Argolas wrote...

The Quarians are 17 million BEFORE the war. That is less than twice the population of New York city. If you side with the Geth, the few Quarians who escape can't be enough to ensure their survival.

Considering Quarians are comparable humans statistically, it would require about 120 Quarians to maintain a viable population. Quarians have 50,000 star ships. That's about 340 Quarians per ship. So even if 2 or 3 mid sized ship survive, that would be more than enough. Not saying it's guaranteed though. I won't be siding with Geth anyway.

Edit : I brought this up to say that both species might be included in the next ME game if it is a sequal. But in that case they might have to use destroy as canon ending because it is by far the most popular. Geth future is problematic.

Actually, since the quarians are suited, they would not be able to mate safely without extended periods of time to acclimate to each-other's physical presance in clean rooms. And because the liveships are gone, there ARE no clean rooms to acclimate to each-other in anymore. Meaning that they are unable to mate without it being potentally fatal. None of the surviving ships would have been a liveship. And since most quarian clan-members have most of the same falimy members on the same ship with them, in-ship breeding carries a higher risk of being incest. Why do you think quarian law has the quarians pick different ships to join up with after pilgrimage? To avoid the risk of incest.
So in truth, even if a few survived, they would never be able to rebuild their race. Not without clean rooms to acclimate to. Or without Rannoch.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 avril 2013 - 01:30 .

[silverexile17s]

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

 They chose this because the alternitive was assured death against the Reapers. They were never supposed to be in the front-line fight.
 

Yeah right. If the Quarians truly felt that it was War with the Geth, or War with Harbinger, then CLEARLY they should have alerted the Geth to help them try and stop the Reapers, for Harby would kill Legion just as fast as Tali.

If you played Dragon Age, or are a Christian IRL, you know that the Reapers, are like Demons: Everything they say is a lie.

Alliance with the Geth? A means to an end. Geth fight the Qs while the Reapers easily harvest other organics. Then with dwindled numbers, wipe up the Geth/Quarian survivors. (Great plan I might add.)

Same with TIM, give him power to use against Shepard. So you fight with TIM instead of the Reapers.

MY point is. Only Gerrel would believe that even in a Full Scale Reaper Invasion, it would still be a good idea to declare war on the Geth. 17 Million Quarians couldn't override the decision of 1-2 Admirals? Not Likely.

America, 320 Million Citizens, being controlled by 540 corrupt, lying, deceiving, manipulative, rich, condescending, lazy old people. Yet we sit and do nothing.

Well, when Legion was pulled back to geth space, and never returned Tali's messages, it seems that was in indication that the geth didn't plan to negotiate either. After all, if the geth did plan to negotiate, or think that peace was possible, surely they would have allowed Legion to resume contact withe Tali, correct?

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

DEAD WRONG.
If a ship is full of civilians, you really think those civilians have a say in how the command crew works? You think that the avarage civilian is able to go to the bridge and do something. No.
AGAIN, you fail to comprehend. The civilian ships are like jiant transports. The DRIVERS are shooting, but the people inside are just there. They are NOT combatants, because they are NOT armed, nor actively shooting from their segregated cargo holds, and they are NOT living shields, because they voulentearily agreed to come here.
You can easily kill the drver of the transport shooting you WITHOUT having to kill the civilians aborad. The geth ALREADY demonstrated they were fully capable of such advanced calculations when they blocked incoming fire with perfect accuracy. They simply chose not to. The geth willingly murdered the quarians. They slaughtered them when they had every oppertunity to let them go.
END of story.

AGAIN, you refuse to acknowledge the Codex. AGAIN, you take word of mouth as the unltimate soruce of info. And you WONDER why so many abandon you in the debate as unreasonable. AGAIN, completely vunerible does NOT mean they stopped shooting. It likely means barriers are down, and they have lost all sense of coordination. NOT that they are defenseless.
ALSO, even if they were, the geth are viewed as hating organics. Everyone thinks the geth are as genocidal as the Reapers, and that the geth are "monsters that have to be put down, because they will never stop." That's how EVRERYONE IN THE WIDER GALAXY sees the geth. No differend then how they saw the Rachni, or the Krogan. The moment the quarians learn different, they STOP. 
If the Reapers suddenly became vunerable, would YOU stop shooting at them? Because you are making it sound like you would have let Sovergien run at the Citadel.

And AGAIN, it's revealed in the Codex (It's cannon no matter HOW much you try to headcannon it away. Deal with it)
That the geth powered down AFTER the quarians did.

Should the Geth go kidnap some organic children and stick them in their ships so that the Quarians can't fire on them?  What should the Quarians do if the Geth do this and the Geth are firing at the Quarians?

The bold is complete utter monumental f**king bullsh*t.  I have posted the vid like 10 different times and quoted Gherel statement like 10 different times.  Here it is once again.

Gheral:  You did it Shepard! The Geth Fleet  have stopped FIRING!.  There're COMPLETELY VULNERABLE.

This is seriously f**king hilarious.  They stoping firng Silver.  Sorry the game says they did.  Not a f**king codex.  Your beloved Gherel said they stopped firing, lol.

Gherel f**king knows the people responsible for the Geth ceasing fire told him to stand down.  It is absurd for him to not interpret from Tali's statement that something is up.  She did not just save them so that she could put them in harm's way by telling them to stand down if the Geth intend to fire back.  It's absurd.

Modifié par remydat, 13 avril 2013 - 03:31 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

DEAD WRONG.
If a ship is full of civilians, you really think those civilians have a say in how the command crew works? You think that the avarage civilian is able to go to the bridge and do something. No.
AGAIN, you fail to comprehend. The civilian ships are like jiant transports. The DRIVERS are shooting, but the people inside are just there. They are NOT combatants, because they are NOT armed, nor actively shooting from their segregated cargo holds, and they are NOT living shields, because they voulentearily agreed to come here.
You can easily kill the drver of the transport shooting you WITHOUT having to kill the civilians aborad. The geth ALREADY demonstrated they were fully capable of such advanced calculations when they blocked incoming fire with perfect accuracy. They simply chose not to. The geth willingly murdered the quarians. They slaughtered them when they had every oppertunity to let them go.
END of story.

AGAIN, you refuse to acknowledge the Codex. AGAIN, you take word of mouth as the unltimate soruce of info. And you WONDER why so many abandon you in the debate as unreasonable. AGAIN, completely vunerible does NOT mean they stopped shooting. It likely means barriers are down, and they have lost all sense of coordination. NOT that they are defenseless.
ALSO, even if they were, the geth are viewed as hating organics. Everyone thinks the geth are as genocidal as the Reapers, and that the geth are "monsters that have to be put down, because they will never stop." That's how EVRERYONE IN THE WIDER GALAXY sees the geth. No differend then how they saw the Rachni, or the Krogan. The moment the quarians learn different, they STOP. 
If the Reapers suddenly became vunerable, would YOU stop shooting at them? Because you are making it sound like you would have let Sovergien run at the Citadel.

And AGAIN, it's revealed in the Codex (It's cannon no matter HOW much you try to headcannon it away. Deal with it)
That the geth powered down AFTER the quarians did.

Should the Geth go kidnap some organic children and stick them in their ships so that the Quarians can't fire on them?  What should the Quarians do if the Geth do this and the Geth are firing at the Quarians?

The bold is complete utter monumental f**king bullsh*t.  I have posted the vid like 10 different times and quoted Gherel statement like 10 different times.  Here it is once again.

Gheral:  You did it Shepard! The Geth Fleet  have stopped FIRING!.  There're COMPLETELY VULNERABLE.

This is seriously f**king hilarious.  They stoping firng Silver.  Sorry the game says they did.  Not a f**king codex.  Your beloved Gherel said they stopped firing, lol.

Gherel f**king knows the people responsible for the Geth ceasing fire told him to stand down.  It is absurd for him to not interpret from Tali's statement that something is up.  She did not just save them so that she could put them in harm's way by telling them to stand down if the Geth intend to fire back.  It's absurd.

That situation would be the same. But since geth are networked into the hardware, so that ALL of them are actively linked in fighting.... well, in truth, the examples on active combatants are applocable to the GETH, not the quarians. The geth don't have civilians. All are able and willing to fight. That's not the case with the quarians - they are nither trained, experianced, or willing to fight. The geth, ALL geth, are.
These same rules are applicable for the rachni - every one of them has a soldier bread into them, and with their hive mind, they share experances, like combat knowledge. There aren't any such things as civilian rachni. Just as there isn't such a thing as civilian geth.
Also, since the geth have proven time and again that they don't believe in taking prsioners, that scenerio of a hostage situation wouldn't exist.

And I have said that it's "complete and utter monumenrtal fu*king bulls*it" of YOURS because not once is any video showing the fight displayed until after a set choice is made. The geth may have stopped THEN, but they can resume defending themselves. Being "vunerible" does NOT mean "unable to fire." Saying they stopped then doesn't KEEP them from firing again as the quarians close the gap while Shepard is talking to Legion.

So STOP with YOUR bull already. YOUR "beloved" geth didn't stand down till AFTER the quarians did. YOUR "beloved" geth butchered people when there was ample chance to avoid it, in BOTH the Rannoch War and the Morning War. YOUR "beloved" geth were the ones that did noting but paint themselves as mass murders for 300 years. YOUR "beloved" geth took no responcibility for the Heretics. YOUR "beloved" geth recalled Legion and cut any negotiation possibility. YOUR "beloved" geth were the ones that created their own "anti-organic genocide supporter" image, and failed to rectify that image.
Gerrel's judgements are based on things the GETH failed to fix. And you seriously intent to try and BS about him not being sensible when all he's seen is reasons to distrust them? THAT is LoL to the absolue max.  All you've done is try to say that this war was caused by quarian agression. That wasn't the case. Quarian desperation, and geth apathy were the causes of this war.

And AGAIN, in this situation, Tali is the only one speaking. And she says NOTHING that can be taken as a valid reason. No logic, motivation, or reason to the random order. It's like someone suddenly shouting "the sky is falling!" How serious do you think anyone is going to take that? Not even if the bloody president was shouting it would anyone take it at face value. NO ONE is going to follow an order that goes against 300 years worth of evidence - doens't matter WHO you are. What's absurd is that you would just jump on such sentances with no reason or logic. Not something any REASONABLE person that has 17 million on their shoulders would do. Especally in a war situation where the enemy's defenses are breached, and decisive action is required.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 avril 2013 - 04:18 .

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

AGAIN, it's a proposition that went nowhere, because Legion had no proof that the geth wanted peace, and after being recalled, the lack of contact made it clear that the geth felt the same. The geth's track record for killing diplomatic envoys is 100%. It's hard to agrue with odds like that, remember? Sending any ships is basically an effort in futility. And devoting resoruces to a futile effort when the Reapers are comming is risking lives.

WRONG. It is not impossible to kill the driver of an armed convoy without hitting the civilians in the transport. The geth already demonstrated they had the capasity to make such calculations when they used thousands to individual fighters to block incoming enemy shots with perfect accuracy. They can do that, yet you expect me to believe it's impossible to shoot off a set of hastily-welded on guns from civilian tugs? Please don't make me laugh. "Rules of War" don't scanction mass murder. Not when other options are clearly and redily  avalible. There were other options open to the geth. They just ignored them. The geth CHOOSE to kill the quarian civilians. There is no two ways about it. The quarians were NOT combatants because they were not armed. The people shuttling them around were. And they were NOT living shields, because they willingly agreed to be transported to Rannoch. They do NOT meet either of the criteria you have presented.

And WRONG. If that were true, the Dorn's statement about the civilians not wanting a war would not exist. They didn't want a war, but chose it for the sake of having a homeworld. I already told you where you can find Tali telling you that the quarians are remorsfull for the Morning War, and that guilt has been what stopped them from retaking Rannoch prior to now.
You can say whatever you want, but it doesn't change the truth: the quarians did this because they believed the alternitive was death. Same as the geth.

You are not even trying to answer the question.  No one has ever defeated the Reapers.  No one.  By your logic, it is an effort in futulity so why try.  The answer is because the alternative is death.  So the point here is yes it may be futile but so f**king what.  The alternative is your kids going to war. 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Human_shield

If you are telling me the Geth should not fire on Quarian ships that are firing at them because they choose to put Civlians on board then by the definition above, the Quarians have potentially committed a War Crime.  I don't want your opinion.  I want you to provide me with documented evidence from a source that says otherwise.  Your opinion means nothing



And you are blatantly making stuff up.  The Quarians were not just shuttling their civlians around.  They were not just being transported to Rannoch.  Koris f**king says point blank Gherel insisted involving the civilians ships.  There is no reason for Koris to see that if these ships were just used as transport.  They are involved in the fighting Koris says this.



Explain to me if these ships were just transport how the hell are they so close to Rannoch to be getting shot by ground cannon?  How are they taking have losses?  Give me a break dude.  They didn't want war but the Quarians forced them into it and have been using them in this war to fight not as transport.  If hese ships were just transport they would be behind the rest of the fleet and unable to be shot at unless the rest of the flotilla was already destroying.  No f**king army transports civlians by having them out in front of the combat to the point they can be shot so easily.  This is bullsh*t.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uwbny5ajhY

That is what a real Quarian hero looks like.  He f**ked up.  He should have resisted this war.  He should have refused Gherel insisting the Civilian Fleet be involved in this War.  But in the end he doesn't make f**king excuses.  He doesn't blame the Geth.  He tells Shep to do what he couldn't.  To save the Quarians not from the Geth but FROM THEMSELVES.  

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

That situation would be the same. But since geth are networked into the hardware, so that ALL of them are actively linked in fighting.... well, in truth, the examples on active combatants are applocable to the GETH, not the quarians. The geth don't have civilians. All are able and willing to fight. That's not the case with the quarians - they are nither trained, experianced, or willing to fight. The geth, ALL geth, are.
These same rules are applicable for the rachni - every one of them has a soldier bread into them, and with their hive mind, they share experances, like combat knowledge. There aren't any such things as civilian rachni. Just as there isn't such a thing as civilian geth.
Also, since the geth have proven time and again that they don't believe in taking prsioners, that scenerio of a hostage situation wouldn't exist.

And I have said that it's "complete and utter monumenrtal fu*king bulls*it" of YOURS because not once is any video showing the fight displayed until after a set choice is made. The geth may have stopped THEN, but they can resume defending themselves. Being "vunerible" does NOT mean "unable to fire." Saying they stopped then doesn't KEEP them from firing again as the quarians close the gap while Shepard is talking to Legion.

So STOP with YOUR bull already. YOUR "beloved" geth didn't stand down till AFTER the quarians did. YOUR "beloved" geth butchered people when there was ample chance to avoid it, in BOTH the Rannoch War and the Morning War. YOUR "beloved" geth were the ones that did noting but paint themselves as mass murders for 300 years. YOUR "beloved" geth took no responcibility for the Heretics. YOUR "beloved" geth recalled Legion and cut any negotiation possibility. YOUR "beloved" geth were the ones that created their own "anti-organic genocide supporter" image, and failed to rectify that image.
Gerrel's judgements are based on things the GETH failed to fix. And you seriously intent to try and BS about him not being sensible when all he's seen is reasons to distrust them? THAT is LoL to the absolue max.  All you've done is try to say that this war was caused by quarian agression. That wasn't the case. Quarian desperation, and geth apathy were the causes of this war.

And AGAIN, in this situation, Tali is the only one speaking. And she says NOTHING that can be taken as a valid reason. No logic, motivation, or reason to the random order. It's like someone suddenly shouting "the sky is falling!" How serious do you think anyone is going to take that? Not even if the bloody president was shouting it would anyone take it at face value. NO ONE is going to follow an order that goes against 300 years worth of evidence - doens't matter WHO you are. What's absurd is that you would just jump on such sentances with no reason or logic. Not something any REASONABLE person that has 17 million on their shoulders would do. Especally in a war situation where the enemy's defenses are breached, and decisive action is required.

You didn't answer the question.  What are the Quarians suppose to do if the Geth have organic civilians on their ships and are shooting at them?  I didn't ask if this scenario is possible.  I asked what are the Quarians suppose to do.  Are they suppose to get killed?  Answer the question.

And no Silver you claimed the statement that they were completely vulnerable does not mean they stopped shooting.  You said that.  Your statment is below.  So are you going to admit you were wrong or not.  You can't hide from the statement below.

AGAIN, you refuse to acknowledge the Codex. AGAIN, you take word of mouth as the unltimate soruce of info. And you WONDER why so many abandon you in the debate as unreasonable. AGAIN, completely vunerible does NOT mean they stopped shooting. It likely means barriers are down, and they have lost all sense of coordination. NOT that they are defenseless.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

AGAIN, it's a proposition that went nowhere, because Legion had no proof that the geth wanted peace, and after being recalled, the lack of contact made it clear that the geth felt the same. The geth's track record for killing diplomatic envoys is 100%. It's hard to agrue with odds like that, remember? Sending any ships is basically an effort in futility. And devoting resoruces to a futile effort when the Reapers are comming is risking lives.

WRONG. It is not impossible to kill the driver of an armed convoy without hitting the civilians in the transport. The geth already demonstrated they had the capasity to make such calculations when they used thousands to individual fighters to block incoming enemy shots with perfect accuracy. They can do that, yet you expect me to believe it's impossible to shoot off a set of hastily-welded on guns from civilian tugs? Please don't make me laugh. "Rules of War" don't scanction mass murder. Not when other options are clearly and redily  avalible. There were other options open to the geth. They just ignored them. The geth CHOOSE to kill the quarian civilians. There is no two ways about it. The quarians were NOT combatants because they were not armed. The people shuttling them around were. And they were NOT living shields, because they willingly agreed to be transported to Rannoch. They do NOT meet either of the criteria you have presented.

And WRONG. If that were true, the Dorn's statement about the civilians not wanting a war would not exist. They didn't want a war, but chose it for the sake of having a homeworld. I already told you where you can find Tali telling you that the quarians are remorsfull for the Morning War, and that guilt has been what stopped them from retaking Rannoch prior to now.
You can say whatever you want, but it doesn't change the truth: the quarians did this because they believed the alternitive was death. Same as the geth.

You are not even trying to answer the question.  No one has ever defeated the Reapers.  No one.  By your logic, it is an effort in futulity so why try.  The answer is because the alternative is death.  So the point here is yes it may be futile but so f**king what.  The alternative is your kids going to war. 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Human_shield

If you are telling me the Geth should not fire on Quarian ships that are firing at them because they choose to put Civlians on board then by the definition above, the Quarians have potentially committed a War Crime.  I don't want your opinion.  I want you to provide me with documented evidence from a source that says otherwise.  Your opinion means nothing



And you are blatantly making stuff up.  The Quarians were not just shuttling their civlians around.  They were not just being transported to Rannoch.  Koris f**king says point blank Gherel insisted involving the civilians ships.  There is no reason for Koris to see that if these ships were just used as transport.  They are involved in the fighting Koris says this.



Explain to me if these ships were just transport how the hell are they so close to Rannoch to be getting shot by ground cannon?  How are they taking have losses?  Give me a break dude.  They didn't want war but the Quarians forced them into it and have been using them in this war to fight not as transport.  If hese ships were just transport they would be behind the rest of the fleet and unable to be shot at unless the rest of the flotilla was already destroying.  No f**king army transports civlians by having them out in front of the combat to the point they can be shot so easily.  This is bullsh*t.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uwbny5ajhY

That is what a real Quarian hero looks like.  He f**ked up.  He should have resisted this war.  He should have refused Gherel insisting the Civilian Fleet be involved in this War.  But in the end he doesn't make f**king excuses.  He doesn't blame the Geth.  He tells Shep to do what he couldn't.  To save the Quarians not from the Geth but FROM THEMSELVES.  

WRONG. All that's happening is you DODGING THE QUESTION.
First off, the idea is that they can beat the Reapers by all working together. They have to at least TRY, right? And the quarians CANNOT while overloaded with civilians. They would be a target and a burden to the allied forces as is. the ONLY chance they have is to become self-sufficant, which they CANNOT DO WITHOUT A DAMN WORLD.
Also, the quarians were not MENT for the front line. They are supposed to be logistics experts. Crucible construction, troop transport, cvilian evac, supply running. NONE of which can be done if they have civilians. It's the difference between having ANY hope for a future, or NO hope for a future.
Honestly, did you EVER read any of what I posted? Because you are recycling the same disproved headcannon over and over.

And AGAIN, W.R.O.N.G. They are NOT human shields if they WILLINGLY PARTICIPATE in being trasnsported. Also, the entire point of arming them was PRECAUTIONARY. A Safety countermeasure. Something they hoped would never have to come into play, but prepared for just in case. They were NOT sending them to war. They were simply making sure they had precautions so they wouldn't be massicared. The quarian civilian ships were supposed to hang back, while Gerrel and Raan cleared out the geth using Xen's viral flash-bang. They were NEVER supposed to be involved in the front-line fighting itself. The GETH forced that to happene when they blockaded them and began tearing into them.

I AM TELLING YOU THIS: If the option to spare civilians is openly avalible, and you have the full capability/ability, and oppertunity to do so, then ignoring it is tantimount to mass murder. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.  And it WASN'T a war crime since they all agreed to come, and they were NOT supposed to be part of the fighting in the first place.
Look at countries like the U.S. The military doesn't kill civilians when there is an alternotive.  If you kill the people shooting at you, that's one thing. If you shoot the civilians locked in cargo holds, unable to fight, or even have any autonomous choice in what's happing outside their habitation blocks, then that's MURDER. Plain and smmple.
Okay, How about I create a situation with the GETH that mirrors what the quarians are in. Maybe THAT will get through to you.
It's no less murder then shooting a defensless geth server hub loaded with programs. The geth around it are actively shooting at you. But the geth hub is there in the back, filled with programs that aren't loaded, and the geth that are shooting at you are based in the hub You can either destroy the attacking platforms, or shoot the hub and kill several thousand programs, including ones not attacking you. By YOUR OWN LOGIC, shooting the hub to kill all the geth around you - attacking geth, AND idle geth - is perfectly acceptible?
Honestly, ENOUGH of your damn double standard logic. Your sociopathic opinion would never get you anywhere but in a dictatorship.

ONLY AFTER THE GETH OVERWHELMED THEM AFTER BEING UPGRADED. They were only involved in the fight AFTER the geth became immune to the quarian viral weapon. Honestly, did you EVER READ ANY of what I posted? Obviously not, as I made this point several times already. I mean, this isn't rocket science. Why are you twisting everything around?

AGAIN, the civilian and military ships can not be split up over more then one system. They MUST all stay in the same system to function. Without the military ships, the fragile liveships are vunerible, and if they fall, the quarian race starves. And the military ships must remain at least within the same system because they are reliant on the civilian fleet for supplies (first-aid, food, fuel, repair materials, ect). There was at least a planet or two between the two fleets, but they never split up far enough to be out of shuttle range. When the geth became Reaper-upgraded and Xen's weapons lost all effect, it forced the fleet to bunch up and hunker down together, grouping up so that the geth couldn't pick them off. Hence why every ship, including the civilians, which were SUPPOSED to be hanging back, were suddenly drawn into a fight for their lives, instead of what was supposed to be a clean, easy victory over the geth.

So, AS ALWAYS, the only Bulls*it is from YOU.
Are you starting to see a pattern here in how you always try to pin this all on being quarian sourced?

And yet, in Tali's trial, wasn't HE the one that incited fear of the geth in her hearing, to further his own political mechinations against Tali, and ultimately, her father?
Do NOT try to paint Koris as a damn saint among villians. After the majority of quarians voted for war, he buried his concerns and focused on making sure the civilians were not part of the fighting unless it was impossible to avoid. Which it became after the geth became Reaper-upgraded.
Also, I remind you that Gerrel is JUST as willing to admit he screwed up, given that he stands down after he learns the geth are not genocidal monsters, and are open for peace. Koris is no better an example of the quarians then Gerrel, Reegar, or Tali.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

That situation would be the same. But since geth are networked into the hardware, so that ALL of them are actively linked in fighting.... well, in truth, the examples on active combatants are applocable to the GETH, not the quarians. The geth don't have civilians. All are able and willing to fight. That's not the case with the quarians - they are nither trained, experianced, or willing to fight. The geth, ALL geth, are.
These same rules are applicable for the rachni - every one of them has a soldier bread into them, and with their hive mind, they share experances, like combat knowledge. There aren't any such things as civilian rachni. Just as there isn't such a thing as civilian geth.
Also, since the geth have proven time and again that they don't believe in taking prsioners, that scenerio of a hostage situation wouldn't exist.

And I have said that it's "complete and utter monumenrtal fu*king bulls*it" of YOURS because not once is any video showing the fight displayed until after a set choice is made. The geth may have stopped THEN, but they can resume defending themselves. Being "vunerible" does NOT mean "unable to fire." Saying they stopped then doesn't KEEP them from firing again as the quarians close the gap while Shepard is talking to Legion.

So STOP with YOUR bull already. YOUR "beloved" geth didn't stand down till AFTER the quarians did. YOUR "beloved" geth butchered people when there was ample chance to avoid it, in BOTH the Rannoch War and the Morning War. YOUR "beloved" geth were the ones that did noting but paint themselves as mass murders for 300 years. YOUR "beloved" geth took no responcibility for the Heretics. YOUR "beloved" geth recalled Legion and cut any negotiation possibility. YOUR "beloved" geth were the ones that created their own "anti-organic genocide supporter" image, and failed to rectify that image.
Gerrel's judgements are based on things the GETH failed to fix. And you seriously intent to try and BS about him not being sensible when all he's seen is reasons to distrust them? THAT is LoL to the absolue max.  All you've done is try to say that this war was caused by quarian agression. That wasn't the case. Quarian desperation, and geth apathy were the causes of this war.

And AGAIN, in this situation, Tali is the only one speaking. And she says NOTHING that can be taken as a valid reason. No logic, motivation, or reason to the random order. It's like someone suddenly shouting "the sky is falling!" How serious do you think anyone is going to take that? Not even if the bloody president was shouting it would anyone take it at face value. NO ONE is going to follow an order that goes against 300 years worth of evidence - doens't matter WHO you are. What's absurd is that you would just jump on such sentances with no reason or logic. Not something any REASONABLE person that has 17 million on their shoulders would do. Especally in a war situation where the enemy's defenses are breached, and decisive action is required.

You didn't answer the question.  What are the Quarians suppose to do if the Geth have organic civilians on their ships and are shooting at them?  I didn't ask if this scenario is possible.  I asked what are the Quarians suppose to do.  Are they suppose to get killed?  Answer the question.

And no Silver you claimed the statement that they were completely vulnerable does not mean they stopped shooting.  You said that.  Your statment is below.  So are you going to admit you were wrong or not.  You can't hide from the statement below.

AGAIN, you refuse to acknowledge the Codex. AGAIN, you take word of mouth as the unltimate soruce of info. And you WONDER why so many abandon you in the debate as unreasonable. AGAIN, completely vunerible does NOT mean they stopped shooting. It likely means barriers are down, and they have lost all sense of coordination. NOT that they are defenseless.

I don't NEED to. The Alerei answers if FOR me.
Rescue: That's the first option. Look at the Alerei. From what Reegar and Gerrel tell you, the first instinct was to try and search for survivors. The Migrant Fleet Marines that went in saw nothing but bodies, and geth poruing out everywhere, killing everything. ONLY AFTER it became appearant that all people on the Alerei were dead was the prospect of destorying the ship brought up. ONLY AFTER they first tried rescue.The only reason it wasn't destroyed when it was obvious that there were no survivors, was because Raan stalled it, hoping that evidence that could exonorate Tali was aborad.
So, THERES your answer: They would mount a rescue operation first.
Satisfied, smartass?

I said that Gerrel saying they stopped shooting did not mean they were defensless. Being vunderable isn't the same as being completely defensless. And AGAIN, weapons would be first priority to reactivate if they are trying to defend themselves. So NO, they were likely NOT completely defenseless. Vunerible isn't the same as "completely unable to fight back at all."
Try again.

And AGAIN, Codex says that the geth will power down AFTER the quarians stop, not before.

[zqrahll]

I would choose the Geth because I like Tali more than Legion, simple as that.

[shodiswe]

I Think this thread shows one thing, you need a good PR crew with lots of supermodels and otherwhise who are extremely competent at infoltration and winning hearts and minds. Goebels style++ upgraded.

Then you can conquer the World and will have lots of support as you commit your atrocities and genocides. People will usualy pick you as their favrite until you start shootign at them. In some cases they will even forgive personal assasination attempts because they get too infatuated with you.

It seems that no matter how much and how often the Quarians screw up they still got supporters that are ready to forgive them of anything, even when they admit their crimes outright, they are just turning a deafear in that direction. Inventing some kind of diversion or projection of guilt.

The thing is, choosing the Geth won't make the Quarians go extinct, there will just be fewer of them.
It's said that the population of Europé Asia and America all come from about 300 people leaving africa long ago. They breed expanded and populated most of the globe. A people seeking new territory or trying to escape something, we will never know the reason since people didn't write back then. Least not that we know of.

That in mind I'm sure the Quarians will survive. It will just take them a lot of time to rebuild their population to the point where people actualy think they are a political factor to account for in galactic politics. Hopefully they will have learned a lession. Unfortunately such event's usualy leads to radicalification or whatever would be the proper Word in English.
Blaming everyone else but themselves for their demise.

Modifié par shodiswe, 13 avril 2013 - 10:45 .

[Wayning_Star]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

zqrahll wrote...

I would choose the Geth because I like Tali more than Legion, simple as that.

That doesn't make any sense...

it's a rhetorical statement, probably meaning this thread in it's entirety would likely be utilized as a secret weapon to enthrall reaperships... make them rather surrender and submit to exile... than face Operation Text Wall.

(to no where...)

[shodiswe]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

zqrahll wrote...

I would choose the Geth because I like Tali more than Legion, simple as that.

That doesn't make any sense...

it's a rhetorical statement, probably meaning this thread in it's entirety would likely be utilized as a secret weapon to enthrall reaperships... make them rather surrender and submit to exile... than face Operation Text Wall.

(to no where...)

I Think he meant he would choose to kill the Geth since he likes Tali more than Legion.

Remember people! Your moviestars and popstars could save your people! Make sure people see them and like them!
It doesn't matter if you are wrong as long as people like you more!

Modifié par shodiswe, 13 avril 2013 - 10:48 .

[Wayning_Star]

shodiswe wrote...

I Think this thread shows one thing, you need a good PR crew with lots of supermodels and otherwhise who are extremely competent at infoltration and winning hearts and minds. Goebels style++ upgraded.

Then you can conquer the World and will have lots of support as you commit your atrocities and genocides. People will usualy pick you as their favrite until you start shootign at them. In some cases they will even forgive personal assasination attempts because they get too infatuated with you.

It seems that no matter how much and how often the Quarians screw up they still got supporters that are ready to forgive them of anything, even when they admit their crimes outright, they are just turning a deafear in that direction. Inventing some kind of diversion or projection of guilt.

The thing is, choosing the Geth won't make the Quarians go extinct, there will just be fewer of them.
It's said that the population of Europé Asia and America all come from about 300 people leaving africa long ago. They breed expanded and populated most of the globe. A people seeking new territory or trying to escape something, we will never know the reason since people didn't write back then. Least not that we know of.

That in mind I'm sure the Quarians will survive. It will just take them a lot of time to rebuild their population to the point where people actualy think they are a political factor to account for in galactic politics. Hopefully they will have learned a lession. Unfortunately such event's usualy leads to radicalification or whatever would be the proper Word in English.
Blaming everyone else but themselves for their demise.

Isn't that the problem, 'being sure so'n so will survive'?  Arm chair generalization. It's really all this thread/OP is about. Hypothetical, hypothetical... (notice how the 'codex' has new and improved lore to fit lost argument?)

[Wayning_Star]

shodiswe wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

zqrahll wrote...

I would choose the Geth because I like Tali more than Legion, simple as that.

That doesn't make any sense...

it's a rhetorical statement, probably meaning this thread in it's entirety would likely be utilized as a secret weapon to enthrall reaperships... make them rather surrender and submit to exile... than face Operation Text Wall.

(to no where...)

I Think he meant he would choose to kill the Geth since he likes Tali more than Legion.

Remember people! Your moviestars and popstars could save your people! Make sure people see them and like them!
It doesn't matter if you are wrong as long as people like you more!

Like Shepard in Arrival.. Baatarians < Survival of the fittest super hero..

[shodiswe]

Wayning_Star wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

zqrahll wrote...

I would choose the Geth because I like Tali more than Legion, simple as that.

That doesn't make any sense...

it's a rhetorical statement, probably meaning this thread in it's entirety would likely be utilized as a secret weapon to enthrall reaperships... make them rather surrender and submit to exile... than face Operation Text Wall.

(to no where...)

I Think he meant he would choose to kill the Geth since he likes Tali more than Legion.

Remember people! Your moviestars and popstars could save your people! Make sure people see them and like them!
It doesn't matter if you are wrong as long as people like you more!

Like Shepard in Arrival.. Baatarians < Survival of the fittest super hero..

I'm not sure if Arrival Counts, the Reapers were pouring through and destroying that relay bought the galaxy a few months. They would have been dead within 24 hours. And they still died within approximately the same time. It was also a relatively small colony even if that's a poor excuse. Least it wasn't the Batarian homeworld. Also remember noone had a say in it. Noone voted for Shepard and/or Humanity. In the end it wasn't a popularity contest, just Shepard choosign between lettign the Batarians die with the reapers and blow up the relay and buy the galaxy soem time, or Let the Batarians die anyway and them let the Reapers spead on to the rest of the galaxy. The relay explosion might actualy have been more merciful than letting the Reapers hiskify a defenceless colony getting beset on by the Entire Reaper armada.

Tali was also there for 3 games Legion had the end of one game to make an impression and a Cameo in the next game.
I do like Tali, but I'm trying to ignore that when dealing with something as big as the Quarian war of agression, and their 300 year long rejection of a peaceful settlement as a possibility to be considered.

Modifié par shodiswe, 13 avril 2013 - 11:17 .

[Wayning_Star]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

 Oh, that's what he meant, sorry.

not really Finn, but I can see their point, but simply don't agree with it, as the situation, in the context of this OP, renders the thread kind of obsolete, in regard to 'military' objectives, in the game. Mostly bizarre circumstances and mostly unwieldy. IN reality(as I see it the fact of the mass relay within hidden geth space, the quarians aware of it, but the alliance ignorance removes the credibility of surprise in a VG rendition of any fog o war scenario.

NO PEACE makes no sense, in any event, as that is the mission statement of the game...so? I guess this is all set up for redundancy? What if?!?

Really amazing that it's gotten so many posts and views. I suppose it's linked with the destroy choosers, but that's just my opinion.

[Wayning_Star]

shodiswe wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

zqrahll wrote...

I would choose the Geth because I like Tali more than Legion, simple as that.

That doesn't make any sense...

it's a rhetorical statement, probably meaning this thread in it's entirety would likely be utilized as a secret weapon to enthrall reaperships... make them rather surrender and submit to exile... than face Operation Text Wall.

(to no where...)

I Think he meant he would choose to kill the Geth since he likes Tali more than Legion.

Remember people! Your moviestars and popstars could save your people! Make sure people see them and like them!
It doesn't matter if you are wrong as long as people like you more!

Like Shepard in Arrival.. Baatarians < Survival of the fittest super hero..

I'm not sure if Arrival Counts, the Reapers were pouring through and destroying that relay bought the galaxy a few months. They would have been dead within 24 hours. And they still died within approximately the same time. It was also a relatively small colony even if that's a poor excuse. Least it wasn't the Batarian homeworld. Also remember noone had a say in it. Noone voted for Shepard and/or Humanity.

Tali was also there for 3 games Legion had the end of one game to make an impression and a Cameo in the next game.
I do like Tali, but I'm trying to ignore that when dealing with something as big as the Quarian war of agression, and their 300 year long rejection of a peaceful settlement as a possibility to be considered.

according to the catalyst, preserved NOT dead...but that's a matter of perception and IF we can trust the Catalysts' word for what it meant by 'reconnecting' the harvested societies during the choices considerations, another whole bag of hammers.

edit: I ignore the small stuff with the G and Q squabble, in the scheme of things, they really don't matter, that's the only reason, apparently, the council didn't act on their disruptive feud. The Alliance military ignored them, other than plinking geth on general principals, kind of numb brained exercise on their part. Seems as if they'd of taken a hint/learned more about it, if so important?

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 13 avril 2013 - 11:21 .

[S.A.K]

zqrahll wrote...

I would choose the Geth because I like Tali more than Legion, simple as that.

Listen to yourself. You're indoctrinated!

[remydat]

Silver,

But it is futile Silver.  Countless cycles have tried.  You think this is the first cycle in billions of years to work together.  Be real.  The point is it doesn't matter it if it is futile.  You still try.  That is the point.  They could have sent a single ship and if it gets shot down then at least you tried.  They could have like the Krogan said to the Turians, we will support you but you need to give us one of your less populated dextro based planets not currently under attack to so we have some place to base our operations and house our people.  Palaven is burning and they just gave the Krogan the cure for the genophage.  You could have at least discussed this possibility with them before sending kids to war.

Koris disputes you claims Silver.  Koris would not be against arming the ships if they were merely transport.  This entire line of reason is crap.  Transport Vechicles are not up close enough to be getting shot down over Rannoch.  Koris ship is shot down because he tried to take out a Geth cannon.  That is not transport Silver.

And you miss the point.  They are either shields or engaged in combat.  A Non-Combantant on a ship that is engaged in trying to take out a Geth cannon is engaged in combat even though he calls himself a non-combatant.  Or let me guess, you expect that Geth Cannon to magically just kill the pilot and the guy operating the Gun?

Umm, the US launches air strikes that kill civilans all the time.  Collateral Damage.  Hell they did one the other day and people were slightly upset because in taking out a key enemy target they killed children.  Do you think anyone is going to jail for that.  No that is what happens in war.

Koris admitted he screwed up.  I already said he should have stood up to Gherel.  When he sacrifices himself so you can save his people, he flat out says do what I could not, save my people from themselves.  He flat out admits he f**ked up.  Even at Tali's trial, he flat out admits later on it was wrong for them to turn it into a political sh*tstorm.

Please find me the scene where Gherel says I am sorry after he stands down?  Gherel is not admitting he is wrong.  He is told the Geth are back to full strength and will kill them.  That is why he stands down.  Also when did he say he was wrong after blowing up the dreadnaught Tali and I was own?

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

I don't NEED to. The Alerei answers if FOR me.
Rescue: That's the first option. Look at the Alerei. From what Reegar and Gerrel tell you, the first instinct was to try and search for survivors. The Migrant Fleet Marines that went in saw nothing but bodies, and geth poruing out everywhere, killing everything. ONLY AFTER it became appearant that all people on the Alerei were dead was the prospect of destorying the ship brought up. ONLY AFTER they first tried rescue.The only reason it wasn't destroyed when it was obvious that there were no survivors, was because Raan stalled it, hoping that evidence that could exonorate Tali was aborad.
So, THERES your answer: They would mount a rescue operation first.
Satisfied, smartass?

I said that Gerrel saying they stopped shooting did not mean they were defensless. Being vunderable isn't the same as being completely defensless. And AGAIN, weapons would be first priority to reactivate if they are trying to defend themselves. So NO, they were likely NOT completely defenseless. Vunerible isn't the same as "completely unable to fight back at all."
Try again.

And AGAIN, Codex says that the geth will power down AFTER the quarians stop, not before.

The Alerei was not involved in a war with over 50,000 ships in combat.  You think if thousands of Geth ships with organic children on board were firing at the Quarians, the Quarians are going to try and board these Geth ships in the middle of a firefight, rescue the civilians, and then destroy the ships?  Sure dude.  Likewise, when the entire Quarian Fleet is firing on the Geth, they are not going to try and board the ship and ask, hey you in the suit are you a civilian or a solider. 

And your defense is a lie.  I posted what you said.  Here it is again.  Note the bold.  You claimed I was using word of mouth.  This is wrong.  I used what Gherel said in the game.  You said completely vulnerable does not mean they stopped shooting.  This is completely wrong.  It does because your beloved Gherel said they stopped firing.  So you were 100% wrong Silver.  The below has nothing to do with vulnerable and defenseless.  You flat out tried to claim I was using word of mouth and making **** up.  You are 100% categorically proven wrong by you beloved Gherel.  There is no wiggle room here.  There is no way to spin this.  I used game facts and your statement is just wrong.  You can either be like Koris and admit you were wrong or be like Gherel and be stubborn but the below statement is factually 100% incorrect as proven by Gherel dialogue.

AGAIN, you refuse to acknowledge the Codex. AGAIN, you take word of mouth as the unltimate soruce of info. And you WONDER why so many abandon you in the debate as unreasonable. AGAIN, completely vunerible does NOT mean they stopped shooting. It likely means barriers are down, and they have lost all sense of coordination. NOT that they are defenseless.

Modifié par remydat, 13 avril 2013 - 05:51 .