4745 réponses à ce sujet

[2Shepards]

Where have these souls come from?

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Silverexile, is it actually mandated by someone that you be the most titanic jerk possible?

.  I'm inclined to agree for once

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Xilizhra wrote...

Silverexile, is it actually mandated by someone that you be the most titanic jerk possible?

Only Wulfie has that requirment.

It's optional for everyone else.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 15 avril 2013 - 05:04 .

[Xilizhra]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Silverexile, is it actually mandated by someone that you be the most titanic jerk possible?

Only Wulfie has that requirment.

It's optional for everyone else.

At least he tries to sound a bit more articulate and doesn't capitalize/italicize as often.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Well he's required to be like that.

So of course he's going to put a bit more effort into it.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Page 187. Do you think this will make 200?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Page 187. Do you think this will make 200?

Oh I hope so.

So many laughs contained in this thread.

I'd hate to see it die before it's humor potential is exhausted.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Hmmm... let me see what I can come up with to tro... er... inform some people how wrong they are. I'll be back later. I need to blow up some stuff now. Preferably some Geth.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 15 avril 2013 - 05:36 .

[silverexile17s]

Xilizhra wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Silverexile, is it actually mandated by someone that you be the most titanic jerk possible?

Only Wulfie has that requirment.

It's optional for everyone else.

At least he tries to sound a bit more articulate and doesn't capitalize/italicize as often.

The itealics/caps/bolding is to get the point across. It's not like I'm screaming. I'm simply restating the points that he repeatedly refuses to acknowledge. And I'm only returning the condesending behiveior he gave and several others in this.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 15 avril 2013 - 07:18 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

They lost for billions of years.  That is not success.  They lost.  By this logic Saren was successful because he was never killed by a Reaper.  His negotiation won.

And I don't begrude them at all.  That is my entire point.  It doesn't matter if something seems futile, you still try.  On one hand you understand why they fought the Reapers despite it appearing futile and on the other you completely miss the point with the Quarians.  As a parent it doesn't matter if peace with the Geth or negotiation with the Turians is futile.  It doesn't matter.  You try it anyway because otherwise your kids will be going to war and it doesn't matter if you don't expect them to get hurt as the war showed they did get hurt.  They were put in harms way.  So no matter the futility you try.  Get it yet?

And no, as I recall it will take 60 years or so for them to get acclimated back to Rannoch. That is useless when a war is going on.  They have no way of knowing the Geth have been cleaning up toxins so for all they know it is a poisoned planet.  Things don't just run by themselves for 300 years.

The many Reapers that aren't here are sucesses. Every Reaper that died is a sucess that would have not been possible if they had tried negotiation.
Over the many cycles,  at least 1,000 - 1,500 Reapers must have died. Each one is a victory. Negotiating with them never brought ANYTHING. Sucessful negotiation is where both parties benifet. Saren lost his mind and became a hsuk. That is NOT scuessful negotiation. That's being played by the other side. By YOUR logic, being a mindless husk is acceptible?
Once again, indoctrinated.

And NO, you DON'T get it. You still try to accuse the war as being based on quarian agression, when it was their desperation and the geth's supreme apathy that led to this war (Apathy means willing to let everything slide into chaos and not do a thing about it).
And AGAIN, the circumstances with the turians made takling with them completely impossible, since they were streacthed thin, and on top of that, had no world that WASN'T under attack to give. If they had possessed a world that they were just willing to give away, the quarians would have settled on it long ago.
And AGAIN, the geth never did a single thing to promote negotation. Their refusal/kill ratio was 100%. HOW exactally does that sound like a reasonable risk to take? It's basically putting a shotgun to your head, and a pistol in your mouth, and hoping the smaller bullet from the pistol doesn't kill you. At the very least, it diverts attention from taking immediate action, which in turn is already gambling with the lives of the Migrant Fleet. They either get Rannoch back, or die. SImple as that. And also, as I stated repeatedly, as a commom person, you would have had NO CLUE that negotiation was even an option. The mindset the quarians have is of someone that didn't play ME2. Someone that never met Legion or learned about any Heretics. Try looking at it from THAT perspective first.
And FURTHERMORE, how many times must I state it? They were NOT ment to go to war. They were NOT arming kids. They were putting them in transports for safety. They were NEVER supposed to be involved in the fight. The geth's upgrades forced them to bunch up and group together, or die. Having them in transports is NOT the same as giving them guns and making them do combat drops. Stop trying to akin them.
So NO, NOT futility, because they were never supposed to BE fighting, and never would have had everything gone as the quarians intended it to.

They will STILL have Air they can breathe, as evidenced by Tali at the end of the war. And food that doesn't have to be overreduced into paste to eat. And water that they can drink without being hyper-filtered. And more then enough space to cultivate edible food. At the very least, they can SURVIVE on Rannoch, which is more then any other dextro-world can do for them. And with many geth bunkers and alot of tech to salvage, plus minerals on the planet itself, they won't be living day-to-day like on the Migrant Fleet. And with all the geth's defensive emplacements, they could make Rannoch a Fortress world. Even Rannoch's Codex lists getting the planet back as a matter of physiological need to the quarians.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

I don't care how much you sugar coat it. Intentionally killing off either races at Rannoch is just evil. Plain and simple. No need to make freaking 187 pages of essay posts about it.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver

Gherel:  You did it Shepard.  The Geth Fleet have STOPPED FIRING.  They are COMPLETELY VULNERABLE.

Silver's factually inaccurate interpretation.

AGAIN, you refuse to acknowledge the Codex. AGAIN, you take word of mouth as the unltimate soruce of info. And you WONDER why so many abandon you in the debate as unreasonable. AGAIN, COMPLETELY VULNERABLE does NOT mean they STOPPED SHOOTING. It likely means barriers are down, and they have lost all sense of coordination. NOT that they are defenseless.

See the bold and the underline.  Is your bolded statement accurate based on what Gherel ie the person who said COMPLETELY VULNERABLE said?  Did he say it because the Geth STOPPED FIRING or like you suggested because barriers were down?  The Codex did not use the term Gherel did.  So is your statement correct based on what Gherel said?

I AGAIN post what I stated was in the Codex:
After the quarians eliminated the Reaper, the geth's processing power dropped precipitously and their bandwidth became clogged with queries for new instructions. Quarian fighters reported the exact positions of geth ships so that the liveships could fire safely on the geth from the
far side of Tikkun, using the star's gravity as a slingshot. The geth command-and-control network was now in tatters, their forces separated by vast distances. The quarians hunted them like animals. It was not a one-sided victory -- despite vast losses, the geth staged a tireless defense -- but it was final.

You refused to even acknowledge that, curoiusly. Vunerible typacally means losing your barriers. Look at the Reaper vuneribilities, which lists loss of barriers as being fatal for Reapers. The same is true of most, if not all ships. So YES, I again state that vunerible means losing barriars, since the Codex spicifically lists the geth's pause in fire being momentary.  AGAIN, word of mouth is trumped by the actual post-battle transcript in the Codex.

Every time you try and BS your way out of this, I will counter-post this Factual Codex Entry, which validates what I posted.
Once again, I reiterate:
You lost. Reposting words (which somehow STILL fails to make you any more right or less wrong, yet you still use it) will not change the fact that You lost.
Get. Over. It.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 15 avril 2013 - 07:44 .

[S.A.K]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I don't care how much you sugar coat it. Intentionally killing off either races at Rannoch is just evil. Plain and simple. No need to make freaking 187 pages of essay posts about it.

Atleat I won't give Reaper tech to one side so they can kill the other if you know what I mean.:innocent:

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

S.A.K wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I don't care how much you sugar coat it. Intentionally killing off either races at Rannoch is just evil. Plain and simple. No need to make freaking 187 pages of essay posts about it.

Atleat I won't give Reaper tech to one side so they can kill the other if you know what I mean.:innocent:

I wouldn't either. If I was forced to choose, I would choose to save the quarians.

One thing people seem to purposelly ignore is that its primarily the quarian admirals that sparked the conflict in the first place. The civillian fleets did NOT want any part of this conflict, most persumably because they know that engaging the geth with only 17 million people is certain suicide and insane. 

Sure, Legion tries to sympathize with you by asking if that geth deserve to die. But do those quarian civillians that were mostly being dragged in and being held hostage by lunatic admirals deserve to die as well? Killing off the geth is sad. But since the what happens after the reaper war was left so vague you can pretty much metagame that people would eventually rebuild the geth and start from scratch.

Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 15 avril 2013 - 07:55 .

[Hazegurl]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I don't care how much you sugar coat it. Intentionally killing off either races at Rannoch is just evil. Plain and simple. No need to make freaking 187 pages of essay posts about it.

It's not evil cause they're not real.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Hazegurl wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I don't care how much you sugar coat it. Intentionally killing off either races at Rannoch is just evil. Plain and simple. No need to make freaking 187 pages of essay posts about it.

It's not evil cause they're not real.

Well yeah. If you play the entire series without having a lot of emotional investment then this is obviously true. But I decided to play the entire trilogy by putting myself in that universe, and that's how I base most of my choices off of.

[shodiswe]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Silverexile, is it actually mandated by someone that you be the most titanic jerk possible?

.  I'm inclined to agree for once

Agreed.

[shodiswe]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I don't care how much you sugar coat it. Intentionally killing off either races at Rannoch is just evil. Plain and simple. No need to make freaking 187 pages of essay posts about it.

Atleat I won't give Reaper tech to one side so they can kill the other if you know what I mean.:innocent:

I wouldn't either. If I was forced to choose, I would choose to save the quarians.

One thing people seem to purposelly ignore is that its primarily the quarian admirals that sparked the conflict in the first place. The civillian fleets did NOT want any part of this conflict, most persumably because they know that engaging the geth with only 17 million people is certain suicide and insane. 

Sure, Legion tries to sympathize with you by asking if that geth deserve to die. But do those quarian civillians that were mostly being dragged in and being held hostage by lunatic admirals deserve to die as well? Killing off the geth is sad. But since the what happens after the reaper war was left so vague you can pretty much metagame that people would eventually rebuild the geth and start from scratch.

So, you are giving in to the agressors and hostage takers then? Justto save people who were brought into a fight they didn't want to fight agaisnt another people that didn't want to fight. So to save the hostages you help kill of the people that the hostage takers wanted dead to end the hostage drama?

Interesting solution, why doesn't that happen in the real World? Maybe it does, I Think Iran was given/sold weapons in Exchange for US hostages... So, yes, I guess it does happen.  

Modifié par shodiswe, 15 avril 2013 - 09:04 .

[Argolas]

shodiswe wrote...

So, you are giving in to the agressors and hostage takers then? Justto save people who were brought into a fight they didn't want to fight agaisnt another people that didn't want to fight. So to save the hostages you help kill of the people that the hostage takers wanted dead to end the hostage drama?

Interesting solution, why doesn't that happen in the real World? Maybe it does, I Think Iran was given weapons in Exchange for US hostages... So, yes, I guess it does happen.  

Keep in mind that Rannoch is the only planet in the universe where the quarians can live. They aren't attacking Rannoch for power or resources, they are attacking Rannoch to survive. EDIT: Yeah, except Xen. But Xen is insane, I still wonder how the Quarians can let her become an admiral.

The quarian fleet is not only too weak to stand against a reaper attack, it would also be too slow to escape. If the reapers decided to attack the quarians, their people would be wiped out in non time. The geth have denied the quarians their home for centuries now.

Modifié par Argolas, 15 avril 2013 - 09:46 .

[Yestare7]

Pffft! Kill the geth, I got 'em on floppy.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

shodiswe wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

I don't care how much you sugar coat it. Intentionally killing off either races at Rannoch is just evil. Plain and simple. No need to make freaking 187 pages of essay posts about it.

Atleat I won't give Reaper tech to one side so they can kill the other if you know what I mean.:innocent:

I wouldn't either. If I was forced to choose, I would choose to save the quarians.

One thing people seem to purposelly ignore is that its primarily the quarian admirals that sparked the conflict in the first place. The civillian fleets did NOT want any part of this conflict, most persumably because they know that engaging the geth with only 17 million people is certain suicide and insane. 

Sure, Legion tries to sympathize with you by asking if that geth deserve to die. But do those quarian civillians that were mostly being dragged in and being held hostage by lunatic admirals deserve to die as well? Killing off the geth is sad. But since the what happens after the reaper war was left so vague you can pretty much metagame that people would eventually rebuild the geth and start from scratch.

So, you are giving in to the agressors and hostage takers then? Justto save people who were brought into a fight they didn't want to fight agaisnt another people that didn't want to fight. So to save the hostages you help kill of the people that the hostage takers wanted dead to end the hostage drama?

Interesting solution, why doesn't that happen in the real World? Maybe it does, I Think Iran was given/sold weapons in Exchange for US hostages... So, yes, I guess it does happen.  

What....the hell is this I don't even...

First off, if you try to use real world logic in a game like Mass Effect then you're doing it wrong.

Second of all, the geth are not hostages...at all. The real hostages were the quarian civillians. The admirals and the geth were the ones that were risking the extinction of the entire race.

And lastly, Tali is one of my favorite characters. Not sure if that was obvious or not. As a personal preferance, watching Tali jump off a cliff is like watching a puppy get kicked. But I'm sure for others Tali jumping off a cliff is probably one of the main reasons people kill off the quarians in the first place.

[Auld Wulf]

This really continues to be a thread about prejudice versus anti-prejudice. I'll keep pointing this out. It's funny because it's finally starting to be acknowledged that Silver is kind of a jerk. See, as I've often said, the Geth have their flaws and Geth-supporters point out those flaws and acknowledge them. A Geth-supporter tells you that they have erred, like any other being alive, and they have made some drastic errors. However, speak to the Quarian-supporters and all you get is that they are Aryan Perfection.

Here's what I'm seeing from the Quarian-supporters:

The Quarians

- Strapping guns to liveships, using hostages as living shields. Evil? No! That's Aryan Perfection!
- Making an unprovoked bombing run on an unarmed installation. Evil? No! That's Aryan Perfection!
- Killing civilian Geth-supporters of their own race. Evil? No! That's Aryan Perfection!

The Geth

- Creating an ambassador to seek out pace. Good? No! That's demonic evil!
- Distancing themselves from the heretics and being willing to rewrite/destroy them for the good of the galaxy. Good? No! That's demonic evil.
- Moving off-world as a motion toward peace. Good? No! That's demonic evil!

And that's why this discussion continues to be a bit of a farce.

I, as a Geth-supporter, can say that the Geth are flawed creatures. I, as a Geth-supporter, can say that I like Koris, Tali, and probably the majority of the Quarian peoples. I, as a Geth-supporter, only dislike certain admirals for their unethical (and insane) actions.

I, as a Geth-supporter, am able to see things in shades of grey.

A Quarian-supporter can see only in black & white. Geth BAD, Quarian GUD. Quarian LIVE, Geth DIE. And that's all there is to it. You can't argue with that because it's almost religious in how over-simplified it is. That's the argument that Geth-supporters are trying to deal with, since Quarian-supporters have elevated the Quarian race to Godhood, a status that cannot be questioned by anyone.

We've spent over one hundred and eighty pages figuring this out.

I know, personally, as a Geth-supporter that my side of the argument has the moralistic vantage point, because none of us are arguing that the Quarians are purely evil. And you don't have people like Yestare7 on our side, who hate the Geth so much that apparently he feels the need to troll any threads mentioning the Geth. Because his world is black & white, and his hate is overpowering. That's all he knows.

The Quarian-supporters have Silverexile and Yestare7 as examples. The Geth-supporters have Remydat, shodiswe as examples. Tell me that you don't see what I'm getting at, here.

The moment that things stop being seen in black & white is when this debate ends.

Until then, it's the Geth-supporters defending the Geth whilst also admitting that the Geth aren't perfect, and the Quarians aren't evil. Whilst the Quarian-supporters go on an all out religious-like barrage about how all Geth are pure evil, and how all Quarians are pure good. That makes for a really fun debate, and there have been hundreds of pages of this.

Ultimately, I'll continue to say it: This is just a thread about prejudice versus anti-prejudice at its core.

And I'll say it again: I'm still waiting for one of the Quarian-supporters to say something nice about Legion. Yestare, Silver, do you think you have it in you? I'm daring you, here. Kind of giving you a chance to prove your innocence.

Go on, then.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 15 avril 2013 - 01:48 .

[S.A.K]

Auld Wulf wrote...

This really continues to be a thread about prejudice versus anti-prejudice. I'll keep pointing this out. It's funny because it's finally starting to be acknowledged that Silver is kind of a jerk. See, as I've often said, the Geth have their flaws and Geth-supporters point out those flaws and acknowledge them. A Geth-supporter tells you that they have erred, like any other being alive, and they have made some drastic errors. However, speak to the Quarian-supporters and all you get is that they are Aryan Perfection.

Here's what I'm seeing from the Quarian-supporters:

The Quarians

- Strapping guns to liveships, using hostages as living shields. Evil? No! That's Aryan Perfection!
- Making an unprovoked bombing run on an unarmed installation. Evil? No! That's Aryan Perfection!
- Killing civilian Geth-supporters of their own race. Evil? No! That's Aryan Perfection!

The Geth

- Creating an ambassador to seek out pace. Good? No! That's demonic evil!
- Distancing themselves from the heretics and being willing to rewrite/destroy them for the good of the galaxy. Good? No! That's demonic evil.
- Moving off-world as a motion toward peace. Good? No! That's demonic evil!

And that's why this discussion continues to be a bit of a farce.

I, as a Geth-supporter, can say that the Geth are flawed creatures. I, as a Geth-supporter, can say that I like Koris, Tali, and probably the majority of the Quarian peoples. I, as a Geth-supporter, only dislike certain admirals for their unethical (and insane) actions.

I, as a Geth-supporter, am able to see things in shades of grey.

A Quarian-supporter can see only in black & white. Geth BAD, Quarian GUD. Quarian LIVE, Geth DIE. And that's all there is to it. You can't argue with that because it's almost religious in how over-simplified it is. That's the argument that Geth-supporters are trying to deal with, since Quarian-supporters have elevated the Quarian race to Godhood, a status that cannot be questioned by anyone.

We've spent over one hundred and eighty pages figuring this out.

I know, personally, as a Geth-supporter that my side of the argument has the moralistic vantage point, because none of us are arguing that the Quarians are purely evil. And you don't have people like Yestare7 on our side, who hate the Geth so much that apparently he feels the need to troll any threads mentioning the Geth. Because his world is black & white, and his hate is overpowering. That's all he knows.

The Quarian-supporters have Silverexile and Yestare7 as examples. The Geth-supporters have Remydat, shodiswe as examples. Tell me that you don't see what I'm getting at, here.

The moment that things stop being seen in black & white is when this debate ends.

Until then, it's the Geth-supporters defending the Geth whilst also admitting that the Geth aren't perfect, and the Quarians aren't evil. Whilst the Quarian-supporters go on an all out religious-like barrage about how all Geth are pure evil, and how all Quarians are pure good. That makes for a really fun debate, and there have been hundreds of pages of this.

Ultimately, I'll continue to say it: This is just a thread about prejudice versus anti-prejudice at its core.

And I'll say it again: I'm still waiting for one of the Quarian-supporters to say something nice about Legion. Yestare, Silver, do you think you have it in you? I'm daring you, here. Kind of giving you a chance to prove your innocence.

Go on, then.

...........:happy:.......

[Argolas]

Nice generalization. Well, let's get too it. I am Argolas, a quarian supporter.

Auld Wulf wrote...

A Quarian-supporter can see only in black & white. Geth BAD, Quarian GUD. Quarian LIVE, Geth DIE. And that's all there is to it.

Xen is completely insane. Gerrel is stuck in old prejudices. I have no problem with admitting that. But: An alliance with the reapers is bad. Uploading a reaper code to a whole race is bad. If a quarian was about to implant every living quarian with reaper tech (however that may work) I would stop and if necessary kill that person just as I stopped (and sadly had to kill) Legion.

Auld Wulf wrote...

I'm still waiting for one of the Quarian-supporters to say something nice about Legion. Yestare, Silver, do you think you have it in you? I'm daring you, here. Kind of giving you a chance to prove your innocence.

Go on, then.

Legion in ME2 was completely agreeable. The geth view on the galaxy as Legion explained it is completely sensible, a lot like the Asari without dirty secrets.

[Xilizhra]

Xen is completely insane. Gerrel is stuck in old prejudices. I have no problem with admitting that. But: An alliance with the reapers is bad. Uploading a reaper code to a whole race is bad. If a quarian was about to implant every living quarian with reaper tech (however that may work) I would stop and if necessary kill that person just as I stopped (and sadly had to kill) Legion.

No, uploading the Reaper code is not a bad thing. It has no power to control the geth without a control signal synced to it, and with the original Reaper who made it dead, the geth aren't vulnerable to control. This was very clearly explained.

Legion in ME2 was completely agreeable. The geth view on the galaxy as Legion explained it is completely sensible, a lot like the Asari without dirty secrets.

The "asari" have no dirty secrets. One matriarchal cabal does.