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[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

So a few of those planets are under attack by Cerberus not the Reapers. Or claimed by the Alliance. Again, not sure why I wouldn't suggest to the Alliance and the Turians that I get one of these planets after we get rid of Cerberus.

Tali's statement is not a factual statement. She is just giving an example or her opinion not providing an actual calculation backed up by analysis. In that same vid Koris advocates settling a new world.

And fighting does not have a higher chance of survival when the end result is extinction. Until this cycle, the end result was extinction period. In fact the only people to survive like Leviathan and Javik did not fight, they went and hid. They lived. Everyone else died.

EVERY SINGLE TURIAN PLANET shown in under attack. It's absurd to think that the rest of turian space isn't in similar straits. And AGAIN, they need those worlds for their own people. They don't have the resources to manage 17 million quarians, who need clean rooms and isolated treatment centers because of their immune systems, and specilized rations in a time of war where getting specially requested supplies is nearly impossible. It's just not phesible. Not in a time of galaxy-wide war. They either have to be self-sufficant, or they will be written off as a burden and a liability if they can't pull their weight.

And weren't YOU using the "60 years" definition used by her? And again, that was before people knew the Reapers were on the doorstep.

AGAIN, victory HAS been shown to be possible in fighting the Reapers, while negotiation NEVER worked.
I mean. look at what's happened to everyone that did try. Husk, or
indoctrinated. You REALLY are trying to aruge that negotiating with the Reapers is a good idea? And AGAIN, multiple Reapers dead. Survival in fighting = MUCH longer then survival throiugh negotiation.
The numbers don't lie: Fighting the "unbeatible" enemy has worked more then negotiating with them has.

[silverexile17s]

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]2. Again, Tuchanka, and diolouge from Shepard and co. clearly indicate Cerberus as Reaper allies.[/quote]
So you don't actually say anything new to respond to that point. Got it.

[quote]3. That Reaper implants are NOT a good idea, and that only an insane person, or an indoctrinated person, would EVER think using them was safe. That you either have to be indoctrinated to use them, or just plain crazy.[/quote]
All right, now explain how that's relevant to the code (and not the control signal).

[quote]4. Not if it bites you in the ass every time. I have yet to see any situation that didn't end with the Crew getting taken. The ONLY reason it failed was because Joker unlocked the A.I. core, which flushed the computer systems.[/quote]
You do realize we could never have made it past the Omega-4 relay without the IFF, yes?

[quote]5 Your statement that the IFF was worth the entire Normandy Crew. It's NOT. And the fact that it backfired at all is the point: no one can ever assume this tech is safe to use.[/quote]
Objectively, it was, actually. Certainly we'd never have gone anywhere further without the IFF. And paralyzing a ship while broadcasting a locator signal is a far easier task than controlling an entire synthetic species, especially since the IFF was a single device that only needed to worry about one target, not raw code spread over trillions of minds.

[quote]6. WHAT?? Did you miss the memo about how sutdy of the dead Reaper indoctrinated half the damn Batarian Hegemony? And Sovergien's remains were quantum shielded, because, unlike everyone else, Bryosn actually believed Shepard's claims of the Reapers. No one else did, so no one else likely took the same precautions. And remember Rana Thanoptis? Indoctrinated. Killed half a dozen asari military officals in a suicide bombing. Turns out she was indoctrinated ever since Virmire. Wouldn't know it to look at her, right?[/quote]
So you're saying that Reaper tech can be safely used under certain conditions, then.

[quote]7. The Collectors don't look prothean either, do they? But they are. It also doesn;t look like Reaper tech, now does it? If anything, it's canabalized prothean tech, reformated, but not added to.[/quote]
So the Protheans just happened to develop technology perfect for Reaper harvesting, independent of the Reapers? That's more likely?

[quote]8. No. They are enslaved to that signal. Another example is Shepard talking to Diana Allers, in which SHepard says the geth will want payback for their "enslavement."
And Legion certenly didn't agree to it. If he did, he wouldn't have been chained up to the Dreadnought core. He would have been a willing interface, not shackled into the thing. And when given the choice, geth NOT infulenced by the code chose to join with Legion, did they not?[/quote]
So you're completely ignoring the plot point where Legion said the geth did, in fact, choose to submit to the Reapers? Legion itself might not have been willing, but not all the programs in the server chose to join Legion; it only persuaded some of them.

[quote]9. Again, Legion says that the option was avalible after the Reaper's control was broken. As in, the primes would not have accepted if they were still under Reaper control.
Also, If you actuall look around afterword, you will see the code is STILL reforming, with strands iniching together as time goes on. Leave the code alone long enough, and the weak points DO reform. [/quote]
Why leave any weak points around at all? Just burn them all down to the roots. Also, you're misremembering the line. It's "While Shepard-Commander removed the Reaper infection, we judged we could persuade hostile geth programs to reunite with us." As in, Legion was doing so while Shepard was blasting through the server, it didn't do all of it after Shepard was already done. Additionally, the programs had been hostile anyway before Legion's persuasion, but had been made non-hostile by said persuasion, not the destruction of the Reaper code.

[quote]10. The geth doing whatever the Reaper commands? Spicific terms like "Even if it costs the geth free will" or "the Reapers have them comepletely under their control" or "enslavement"? All these terms point to it being EXACTALLY like the Cerberus implants.[/quote]
The control signal, maybe. The performance-enhancing code, no. They're two separate things.

[quote]11. It all depends on how you play. The two choices in diolouge options can grant you the same result. They are NOT inherantly good or evil. [/quote]
Not always.

[quote]12. Yes it does. AGAIN, Reaper Destroyers are the "lesser" Reapers. What do you think a Reaper like Harbinger could do if given the chance? Again, you continue to ignore the risks.[/quote]
Lesser in what sense? Control signal broadcasting power? How do you know this? Couldn't Sovereign have enslaved the entire geth consensus by doing this, instead of accepting the worship of heretics that it didn't even want, if the Reapers were actually capable of this sort of thing?

[quote]13. They acted outside their will in the war. Shepard even spicifically notes that the upgrades "cost the geth free will." That is the exact statement. It's no different then Cerberus upgrades.[/quote]
Yes... the control signal, not the code.

[quote]14. LOOK at asari weapons and ships. You can see the similiarties. ANYONE can. And "masterminds" my ass. The asari are led by sevral thouand matriarchs, a set for each asari worlds. They are NOT "masterminds" anymore then the Alliance are for hiding the true extent of the Archive on Mars. Many of the datapads you find say that many of the Archives were sealed off and forbidden to try and study until recantly. The Alliance only allowed people to study it when they finally wised up to the fact that the Reapers were more then just a myth.[/quote]
Now you're just making **** up. The asari have a direct democracy where everyone votes on policies directly. The matriarchs have more of an unofficial position of general policy suggestions, but it's not a representative democracy. And why would distant administrators on Lessus or something even need to know about this? It's like 9/11 Truthers claiming that every single member of Congress was in on the attacks... multiplied by several orders of magnitude... except that I don't think any of them were dumb enough to say that, because it's completely absurd. Also, I don't know about you, but I don't see much resemblance between asari and Prothean weapons.[/quote]
1. Actually, it was that Cerberus and the Reapers were worling right next to each-other, did nothing to stop each-other, and were actually both attacking the same targets.
Also, "Reaper slaves." Plus, "indoctrinated madman" as stated by Brooks in ME3: Citadel.

2. Because they are basicalluy the SAME THING. The Code is the synthetic analouge to the Cerberus Implants. They both are Reaper-based, and both ensure Reaper dominance.

3. YOU do realize that Cerberus got in and out of the Omega-4 relay in the "Invasion" Comics, and continued to harvest tech from the Collector Base, including the dead human proto-Reaper, WITHOUT the IFF, right? Care to explain that one?
And AGAIN: Crew taken, Normandy disabled. Reaper tech = risky to use. Unreliable to bank on.

4. AGAIN, as I said above, Cerberus seems to have no problem getting in and out of the relay, even though the IFF isn't with them. And if one small disembodied circut can do that, what do you think a massive, living Reaper can do?

5. NO. I have stated nothing but reasons why it CAN'T be trusted, and how the people that worked with it can be indoctrinated far too easily. Also, since you didn't actually MAKE any real refute, I'm going to go on a limb and say you are BSing me. Please make a real retort.

6. No. The Collectors repurposing their own tech to better suit themselves over 50,000 years however, does.

7. No. YOU ARE. You are the one ignoring the fact that subission to the Reapers was involentary, and forced on them by desperation from being attacked.

8. IT STILL GROWS BACK. That's my POINT here.
And you yourself just validated what I said: Removing the Reaper infection opened up the chance to get those Primes free. They would NOT have joined of their own free will if that code still existed. Every time Shepard removed Reaper code, THAT was what allowed them to be free.

9. NO THEY AREN'T. They are intertwined - a package set. One with the other.

10. Yes, always. One man's crime is anothers justice as the saying goes, I think.

11. The Codex tells you that Reaper Destroyers are "lesser Reapers." They are not as large or powerfull. They also seem to hack intelligence, given the Destroyer that dies on Tuchanka against Kalros.
And Sovergien created that Virus the Heretics were going to use. Enslaving them all WAS the plan appearantly.

12. THEY ARE THE SAME THING. the control signal is receved THROUGH the upgrades.

13: WHAT??
There are at least an equal number of asari to the humans, or salarians. That numbers in the billions. There would be at least sevral thousand matriarchs out of those many billions. It's SIMPLE MATH. Not rocket science.
And for the record, Lessus is UNINHABITED save for that one Monastary.
Look at the designs for once. Not the similar framework. The only difference is in the edges. The edges of asari weapons are smooth. Prothean weapons have sharp edges to them. But the two look fundimentally similar.

Done for a bit. Might check back later.

Użytkownik silverexile17s edytował ten post 16 kwiecień 2013 - 02:42

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

[And AGAIN, it is of an observation of ONE SPICIFIC SECOND. An observation of a situation at THAT SPICIFIC MOMENT. Which, as proven by the Codex, CHANGED. JUST as I said, Completely vunerible does NOT mean they couldn't shoot or fight. They DID. It's right there in the Codex. The geth DID fire when they had the chance. Being stunned inturrupted them, but did NOT make them have second thoughts about shooting. As soon as the shock faded, they RESUMED shooting.


After the quarians eliminated the Reaper, the geth's processing power dropped precipitously and their bandwidth became clogged with queries for new instructions. Quarian fighters reported the exact positions of geth ships so that the liveships could fire safely on the geth from the far side of Tikkun, using the star's gravity as a slingshot. The geth command-and-control network was now in tatters, their forces separated by vast distances. The quarians hunted them like animals. It was not a one-sided victory -- despite vast losses, the geth staged a tireless defense -- but it was final.


And AGAIN, Codex trumps your word of mouth. Being stuned isn't stoppong shooting. It's interrupting the shooting, but not STOPPING it, as the geth continue the instant the shock fades. You can twist it however you want, but it DOESN'T change the LISTED FACTUAL battle transcript in the damn Codex. Gerrel's observation of that one second after the Reaper dies is shown to not represent the entire fight.
AGAIN, you waste time and effort spinning your wheels. Just let it go.

And if you had said Completely Vulnerable was just referring to just that moment and things changed then we wouldn't be having this argument that is not what you said.  You said completely vunerables does not mean stopped shooting, it likely means barriers are down.  No it doesn't silver.  It means they stopped firing.  You statement was incorrect.  You could have said Completely Vulnerable meant they stopped firing but then later they started firing again.  You did not.

Gherel: You did it Shepard. The Geth Fleet have STOPPED FIRING. They are COMPLETELY VULNERABLE.



Silver's factually inaccurate interpretation.

AGAIN, you refuse to acknowledge the Codex. AGAIN, you take word of mouth as the unltimate soruce of info. And you WONDER why so many abandon you in the debate as unreasonable. AGAIN, COMPLETELY VULNERABLE does NOT mean they STOPPED SHOOTING. It likely means barriers are down, and they have lost all sense of coordination. NOT that they are defenseless.

Użytkownik remydat edytował ten post 16 kwiecień 2013 - 02:48

[Dunabar]

remydat wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Keep in mind that Rannoch is the only planet in the universe where the quarians can live. They aren't attacking Rannoch for power or resources, they are attacking Rannoch to survive. EDIT: Yeah, except Xen. But Xen is insane, I still wonder how the Quarians can let her become an admiral.

The quarian fleet is not only too weak to stand against a reaper attack, it would also be too slow to escape. If the reapers decided to attack the quarians, their people would be wiped out in non time. The geth have denied the quarians their home for centuries now.

This is factually inaccurate.  They can survive on another dextro based world.  It would simply take them around 40 years longer to acclimate to that planet.  If Rannoch was the only planet they could survive on, there would be no reason for the Council to deny them the right to colonize other planets as many Quarians supporters have said.

But hey, the Quarians apparently love getting f**ked by the Council and instead of standing up to them being b*tches and attacking the machines instead.

Oh no's, the council might be mad we created an AI.  Let's kill the Geth.  Result - 2 billion lives.  Reward from the Council - You will wander space for 300 years and we will not allow you to settle a new planet and our people will go around calling you suit rats.  Quarian response - Thanks you're great.

Oh no's, 300 years later and the Council is still f**king us and calling us suit rats.  Let's kill the Geth Result - extinction.  Reward from the Council - Hey Geth, you are good at killing Quarians, think you can help us with the Reapers.  Quarian Response - None because they are dead and the Council doesn't care.

Conclusion - Probably should have told the Council to f**k off long ago.

Remydat are you being serious or you being sarcastic? I pray this is sarcasm I'm reading

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

EVERY SINGLE TURIAN PLANET shown in under attack. It's absurd to think that the rest of turian space isn't in similar straits. And AGAIN, they need those worlds for their own people. They don't have the resources to manage 17 million quarians, who need clean rooms and isolated treatment centers because of their immune systems, and specilized rations in a time of war where getting specially requested supplies is nearly impossible. It's just not phesible. Not in a time of galaxy-wide war. They either have to be self-sufficant, or they will be written off as a burden and a liability if they can't pull their weight.

And weren't YOU using the "60 years" definition used by her? And again, that was before people knew the Reapers were on the doorstep.

AGAIN, victory HAS been shown to be possible in fighting the Reapers, while negotiation NEVER worked.
I mean. look at what's happened to everyone that did try. Husk, or
indoctrinated. You REALLY are trying to aruge that negotiating with the Reapers is a good idea? And AGAIN, multiple Reapers dead. Survival in fighting = MUCH longer then survival throiugh negotiation.
The numbers don't lie: Fighting the "unbeatible" enemy has worked more then negotiating with them has.

Not by the Reapers.  Cerberus is already an enemy and one the Alliance, Turians and Flotilla can defeat.  That is a lot smarter than going against the Geth alone and when they are currently not attacking you.

I was using a statement that I thought someone made that said 60 years on Rannoch would be 100 years on another colony.  Not 600.  If I was wrong and the only reference to 60 years was the 600 then I was mistaken.  See how I just admitted I may have been mistaken.  I don't care to try and find if someone else said 60 vs 100 years so I will say at this stage it seems I made a mistake on the time. 

Why because when I say something like completely vulnerable does not mean stopped firing and I am provided with clear cut evdience it does, I simply accept I made a mistake.  I don't try and say but, but, the situation changed because of a codex.

Now that I have admitted the mistake, I can then make the point that Koris supports a colony so not sure Tali's statement is meant to be 100% fact.  It is her opinion.

No no negotiation with the Reapers is not a good idea because it still results in extinction. The only thing in the game proven to be a good idea is to hide like Leviathan and Javik.  Those are the only people who survived without being turned into slaves like the Collectors.

[Xilizhra]

[quote]1. Actually, it was that Cerberus and the Reapers were worling right next to each-other, did nothing to stop each-other, and were actually both attacking the same targets.
Also, "Reaper slaves." Plus, "indoctrinated madman" as stated by Brooks in ME3: Citadel.[/quote]
Both are focused on Shepard and the turians. And I never denied they were indoctrinated.

[quote]2. Because they are basicalluy the SAME THING. The Code is the synthetic analouge to the Cerberus Implants. They both are Reaper-based, and both ensure Reaper dominance.[/quote]
But... they're not. You're getting the code mixed up with the control signal again.

[quote]3. YOU do realize that Cerberus got in and out of the Omega-4 relay in the "Invasion" Comics, and continued to harvest tech from the Collector Base, including the dead human proto-Reaper, WITHOUT the IFF, right? Care to explain that one?[/quote]
Um, no. They copied the IFF from the Normandy.

[quote]And AGAIN: Crew taken, Normandy disabled. Reaper tech = risky to use. Unreliable to bank on.[/quote]
So, you never finished ME2.

[quote]5. NO. I have stated nothing but reasons why it CAN'T be trusted, and how the people that worked with it can be indoctrinated far too easily. Also, since you didn't actually MAKE any real refute, I'm going to go on a limb and say you are BSing me. Please make a real retort.[/quote]
But you just said that quantum shielding makes us safe.

[quote]6. No. The Collectors repurposing their own tech to better suit themselves over 50,000 years however, does.[/quote]
While under the control of the Reapers.

[quote]8. IT STILL GROWS BACK. That's my POINT here.
And you yourself just validated what I said: Removing the Reaper infection opened up the chance to get those Primes free. They would NOT have joined of their own free will if that code still existed. Every time Shepard removed Reaper code, THAT was what allowed them to be free. [/quote]
I've never seen it do so. Also, you're now just making assertions without evidence.

[quote]9. NO THEY AREN'T. They are intertwined - a package set. One with the other. [/quote]
Um, they're not a packaged set, as is clearly seen when the geth don't fall under Reaper control again. I mean, you can try to come up with justifications for why your character was wrong, although none of them seem very good so far, but that doesn't change the fact that he and you were both wrong.

[quote]10. Yes, always. One man's crime is anothers justice as the saying goes, I think.[/quote]
So you're wholly a moral relativist?

[quote]11. The Codex tells you that Reaper Destroyers are "lesser Reapers." They are not as large or powerfull. They also seem to hack intelligence, given the Destroyer that dies on Tuchanka against Kalros.[/quote]
That... was a bit of a non sequitur, really.

[quote]And Sovergien created that Virus the Heretics were going to use. Enslaving them all WAS the plan appearantly.[/quote]
Rewriting their goals, which doesn't extend to controlling their actions as if through indoctrination. Ironically, the Reaper code upgrades would probably make them immune to that tactic, due to vastly increasing their complexity.

[quote]13: WHAT??
There are at least an equal number of asari to the humans, or salarians. That numbers in the billions. There would be at least sevral thousand matriarchs out of those many billions. It's SIMPLE MATH. Not rocket science.
And for the record, Lessus is UNINHABITED save for that one Monastary.
Look at the designs for once. Not the similar framework. The only difference is in the edges. The edges of asari weapons are smooth. Prothean weapons have sharp edges to them. But the two look fundimentally similar. [/quote]
But how could it possibly be useful for them to all have this information, which isn't necessary for their jobs and creates gapingly huge security holes? And wow, they're both... gun-shaped?

[remydat]

Dunabar wrote...

Remydat are you being serious or you being sarcastic? I pray this is sarcasm I'm reading

Depends on what you mean.  The Council f**ked the Quarians royally.  That is not sarcasm that is fact.  They f**ked them pre-MW with their dumb rules.  They f**ked them post MW by denying them a planet and they f**ked them post MW by basically allowing their citizens to be openly racist to the Quarians and no one cared except Shep.

So no I am deadly serious, the Council f**ked them and they did nothing except continue to get themselves killed because the Council kept f**king them.

So I ask a simple question.  How long before you would decide the Council doesn't have my best interests in mind?  How long? 300 years?

Użytkownik remydat edytował ten post 16 kwiecień 2013 - 03:08

[Dunabar]

remydat wrote...

Dunabar wrote...

Remydat are you being serious or you being sarcastic? I pray this is sarcasm I'm reading

Depends on what you mean.  The Council f**ked the Quarians royally.  That is not sarcasm that is fact.  They f**ked them pre-MW with their dumb rules.  They f**ked them post MW by denying them a planet and they f**ked them post MW by basically allowing their citizens to be openly racist to the Quarians and no one cared except Shep.

So no I am deadly serious, the Council f**ked them and they did nothing except continue to get themselves killed because the Council kept f**king them

So I ask a simply question, how long before you would decide the Council doesn't have my best interests in mind?  How long? 300 years?

And it's because of this treatment I was in full support of the Quarians reclaiming Rannoch, hell even at Tali's trial my Shepard said he was in support of them reclaiming it.

When the Quarians discovered Ekuna they petitioned the Citadel council for it, however the council got a bug up their rears do to early settlement, so the Council threaten to bomb them off of it if they didn't leave within one galactic standard month. I think it's safe to say we both feel this is screwed up beyond belief.

However lets look at this in a hypothetical sense and say the Quarians followed through with "Standing up to them" as you said. One of two things will possibly happen.

1). Council ends up not doing anything after all and they don't follow up with their threat to bomb them off.
2). Council makes good on their threat, they bomb the Quarians off of it, and now the Quarians & Council are at war with one another.

Now I feel that we would both pray for #1 if this was to happen. However, what if #2 actually happened?

Użytkownik Dunabar edytował ten post 16 kwiecień 2013 - 03:34

[remydat]

Dunabar wrote...

And it's because of this treatment I was in full support of the Quarians reclaiming Rannoch, hell even at Tali's trial my Shepard said he was in support of them reclaiming it.

When the Quarians discovered Ekuna they petitioned the Citadel council for it, however the council got a bug up their rears do to early settlement, so the Council threaten to bomb them off of it if they didn't leave within one galactic standard month. I think it's safe to say we both feel this is screwed up beyond belief.

However lets look at this in a hypothetical sense and say the Quarians followed through with "Standing up to them" as you said. One of two things will possibly happen.

1). Council ends up not doing anything after all and they don't follow up with their threat to bomb them off.
2). Council makes good on their threat, & bomb the Quarians off of it, and now the Quarians & Council are at war with one another.

Now I feel that we would both pray for #1 if this was to happen. However, what if #2 actually happened?

Yes but the fundamental problem here is the Council and the Quarians keep trying to solve it by killing Geth.  It is the Council laws and threat of the council sanctions that helped create the fear of synthetics that led to the MW.  It is the Council's rules that prevented the Quarians from settling a new planet but who do they take it out on, the Geth.

So no, your beef is and was always with the Council.  And you keep trying to kill Geth when the Geth's actions are in large part the direct result of you being too chicken sh*t to stand up to the Council.  The humans accessed a mass relay.  The sh*tty Council via the Turians attacked.  Guess what humans stood up to them and now they are basically the 4th most important race when it comes to the Council. 

You don't just let bullies bully you.  You appease them and you will always be treated like sh*t.  Bullies don't respect b*thces.  You need to punch them in the f**king face sometimes and yeah maybe you get your a** kicked but they will understand this sh*t will not be easy.  That is what the humans who were barely space faring did so I find it hard to believe the more advanced Quarians could not have done the same.  Instead they got bullied and tried to take it out on someone they thought they could bully and lost 2 billion lives as a result.

[Dunabar]

remydat wrote...

Dunabar wrote...

And it's because of this treatment I was in full support of the Quarians reclaiming Rannoch, hell even at Tali's trial my Shepard said he was in support of them reclaiming it.

When the Quarians discovered Ekuna they petitioned the Citadel council for it, however the council got a bug up their rears do to early settlement, so the Council threaten to bomb them off of it if they didn't leave within one galactic standard month. I think it's safe to say we both feel this is screwed up beyond belief.

However lets look at this in a hypothetical sense and say the Quarians followed through with "Standing up to them" as you said. One of two things will possibly happen.

1). Council ends up not doing anything after all and they don't follow up with their threat to bomb them off.
2). Council makes good on their threat, & bomb the Quarians off of it, and now the Quarians & Council are at war with one another.

Now I feel that we would both pray for #1 if this was to happen. However, what if #2 actually happened?

Yes but the fundamental problem here is the Council and the Quarians keep trying to solve it by killing Geth.  It is the Council laws and threat of the council sanctions that helped create the fear of synthetics that led to the MW.  It is the Council's rules that prevented the Quarians from settling a new planet but who do they take it out on, the Geth.

So no, your beef is and was always with the Council.  And you keep trying to kill Geth when the Geth's actions are in large part the direct result of you being too chicken sh*t to stand up to the Council.  The humans accessed a mass relay.  The sh*tty Council via the Turians attacked.  Guess what humans stood up to them and now they are basically the 4th most important race when it comes to the Council. 

You don't just let bullies bully you.  You appease them and you will always be treated like sh*t.  Bullies don't respect b*thces.  You need to punch them in the f**king face sometimes and yeah maybe you get your a** kicked but they will understand this sh*t will not be easy.  That is what the humans who were barely space faring did so I find it hard to believe the more advanced Quarians could not have done the same.  Instead they got bullied and tried to take it out on someone they thought they could bully and lost 2 billion lives as a result.

So X millions of Quarians should rise up against the council. So Hypothetically speaking if this war was to happen you woud be looking at something about like this..

Quarians vs. Turians, Salarians, and Asari.

Now who is going to come to the aid of the Quarians if this was to happen?

Humans? They haven't even met up with the Turians yet for the first time.
Krogan? Their fighting force has been pretty much kicked into the dirt by the same three races.
Volus? They're under the Protectorate of the Turians, so in a way they most likely would be at war also with the Quarians. Not to mention Volus don't exactly have a military.
Elcor? Not sure what reason the Elcor would have to support the Quarians, doubt they would want to fall out of good graces with the Council either.
Hanar? Let's keep moving on...
Drell? Not entirely sure here, I need to read up more on them. Leave this at a 'Maybe', but not entirely sure. Don't think they had any sort of Military really
Batarians? I don't really see the Batarians doing such, but hey never know
Geth? Yeah...I don't see that happening, more so since both races haven't settle any sort of differences
Raloi? I don't think they were discovered yet at this time..
Vorcha? Much like the Hanar, let's keep moving on...
Yahg? Eh...yeah no entirely. Both sides for that matter

[remydat]

Dunabar wrote...

So X millions of Quarians should rise up against the council. So Hypothetically speaking if this war was to happen you woud be looking at something about like this..

Quarians vs. Turians, Salarians, and Asari.

Now who is going to come to the aid of the Quarians if this was to happen?

Humans? They haven't even met up with the Turians yet for the first time.
Krogan? Their fighting force has been pretty much kicked into the dirt by the same three races.
Volus? They're under the Protectorate of the Turians, so in a way they most likely would be at war also with the Quarians. Not to mention Volus don't exactly have a military.
Elcor? Not sure what reason the Elcor would have to support the Quarians, doubt they would want to fall out of good graces with the Council either.
Hanar? Let's keep moving on...
Drell? Not entirely sure here, I need to read up more on them. Leave this at a 'Maybe', but not entirely sure. Don't think they had any sort of Military really
Batarians? I don't really see the Batarians doing such, but hey never know
Geth? Yeah...I don't see that happening, more so since both races haven't settle any sort of differences
Raloi? I don't think they were discovered yet at this time..
Vorcha? Much like the Hanar, let's keep moving on...
Yahg? Eh...yeah no entirely. Both sides for that matter

What time period are you talking about?  Pre-MW?  

Pre-MW, the Quarians numbered in the billions.  They were far more advanced than humans when the humans took on the Turians.  So why are you assuming they could not fight?  How are humans alive then?  Oh an by the way, Pre-MW they would have had the Geth on their side and we all saw how effective the Geth can fight to the tune of billions of dead Quarians.  So no, I reject this logic.  Humans had far less going for them and the fought long enough to convince the Council to end the fighting.  Quarians could have done the same with the Geth I might add pre-MW.

Post morning war, they have the largest fleet in the Galaxy.  If you are telling me the Council would go to war to deny the Quarians a homeworld then why are the Quarians even talking to them?  What sort of sadistic f**ks are you following if they would kill you instead of let you settle a planet?  And more importantly, how does it benefit the council?  Who goes to war and risks their lives for absolutely no gain?  

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

This thread is in dire need of more Wulfie greatness.

[Dunabar]

remydat wrote...

Dunabar wrote...

So X millions of Quarians should rise up against the council. So Hypothetically speaking if this war was to happen you woud be looking at something about like this..

Quarians vs. Turians, Salarians, and Asari.

Now who is going to come to the aid of the Quarians if this was to happen?

Humans? They haven't even met up with the Turians yet for the first time.
Krogan? Their fighting force has been pretty much kicked into the dirt by the same three races.
Volus? They're under the Protectorate of the Turians, so in a way they most likely would be at war also with the Quarians. Not to mention Volus don't exactly have a military.
Elcor? Not sure what reason the Elcor would have to support the Quarians, doubt they would want to fall out of good graces with the Council either.
Hanar? Let's keep moving on...
Drell? Not entirely sure here, I need to read up more on them. Leave this at a 'Maybe', but not entirely sure. Don't think they had any sort of Military really
Batarians? I don't really see the Batarians doing such, but hey never know
Geth? Yeah...I don't see that happening, more so since both races haven't settle any sort of differences
Raloi? I don't think they were discovered yet at this time..
Vorcha? Much like the Hanar, let's keep moving on...
Yahg? Eh...yeah no entirely. Both sides for that matter

What time period are you talking about?  Pre-MW?  

Pre-MW, the Quarians numbered in the billions.  They were far more advanced than humans when the humans took on the Turians.  So why are you assuming they could not fight?  How are humans alive then?  Oh an by the way, Pre-MW they would have had the Geth on their side and we all saw how effective the Geth can fight to the tune of billions of dead Quarians.  So no, I reject this logic.  Humans had far less going for them and the fought long enough to convince the Council to end the fighting.  Quarians could have done the same with the Geth I might add pre-MW.

Post morning war, they have the largest fleet in the Galaxy.  If you are telling me the Council would go to war to deny the Quarians a homeworld then why are the Quarians even talking to them?  What sort of sadistic f**ks are you following if they would kill you instead of let you settle a planet?  And more importantly, how does it benefit the council?  Who goes to war and risks their lives for absolutely no gain?  

Largest fleet doesn't mean strongest fleet just to put that out there. They were in hopes of settling on Ekuna in an attempt to establish a new homeworld, so this is post-Morning War which would mean they don't have the Geth anymore, their numbers are not in the billions, they have no planet of their own which means they don't have the ability to establish a supply-line of any kind, and pretty much all they got is whatever weapons they have, out dated ships, their suits, and whatever hope they have to see Rannoch beyond just a vid.

Now if I may you just said a few things that made me smile.

remydat wrote...
If you are telling me the Council would go to war to deny the Quarians a
homeworld then why are the Quarians even talking to them?

Well you said it yourself "Who goes to war and risks their lives for absolutely no gain?" So they flip the council the bird, settle on the planet, and now wait to see if the council will make good on their threat.

Now they do have something to gain from all of this and that's a new homeworld, even though Ekuna isn't even that great for them, it still gives them something. However what will it cost them in the process of doing so? Are you willing to risk going to war against the Turians who provided aid to the Salarians and Asari to claim victory over the Krogan during the KR? Are you prepared to fight the Asari whose influence has managed to actually bring races together, whose small but highly trained forces are even given praise by the Turians, and whose people are all biotics? Are you ready to go to war with the Salarians whose very own Special Tasks group developed the Genophage and was actually the influence that developed the Council Agents, the Spectres? Not to mention that Spectres answer only to the council and are actually above the law, so if the Council goes to War, the Spectres go with them.

Does that really sound like something the Quarians are able to fight at this time? They have no aid, no homeworld, no major access to military equipment like these three races do, they lose any access at all to the resources they could get from council space, and they wouldn't have time to really set up anything proper in the way of defenses or infrastructure to support them before the council comes knocking with bombs, soldiers, & their fleets.

I love the Quarians, but at this time they were not ready for such a war. They were more focused on finding a world to call home, maintain a slowly dying fleet, and studying the geth where & when they could.

remydat wrote...
What sort of
sadistic f**ks are you following if they would kill you instead of let
you settle a planet?  And more importantly, how does it benefit the
council? 

Well those same sadistic people were actually the ones that were keeping the Quarians from attacking the Geth. What do they gain though? Not sure, that wasn't very clear in their intent. However a lot of corporations would hire Quarians as a cheaper labor force, maybe they got a tax break for giving Quarians jobs, shelter, and the such. Not saying it is what they gained benefit from, but it is a thought of some sort.

remydat wrote...
Who goes to war and risks their lives for absolutely no
gain?  

I think Garrus said it himself "A near eminent death has a way of motivating people." I think that's how he put it.

With the Reapers invading the galaxy and hope slowly starting to fade with all corners of the galaxy under siege. The Quarians are on the brink of extinction just like every other organic is and the difference between them, is that the Quarians were closer to the edge than everyone else. Now granted the Reaper invasion was,,,(I think) about 100 or more years later. But think about it..

"Who goes to war and risks their lives for absolutely no gain?"

Years of researching and understanding the Geth
Years of searching for a homeworld
Years of being treated as a second class citizen by most of the galaxy
Years of dreaming of one day returning to Rannoch
All now under the shadow of the Reaper invasion.

I think at this point it is safe to say that the years of mistreatment by the council races, the invasion of the Reapers, and mix it all in with a hint of desperation to return to the homeworld of your people. You now have the modern Quarian-Geth conflict.

Whole galaxy is going belly up, Reapers are invading system after system, and their only hope for survival was going through the Geth so they had a place to house their civilians to aid the galaxy. Pretty good way of flipping the council the bird finger and taking a chance at living the dream of your people of returning to the homeworld.

So here we stand, two races, the Quarians, and the Geth. Neither has anyone outside of Shepard who honestly gives a damn about them. Geth supporters care about the Geth, Quarian supporters care about the Quarians, and those who love both of them save them both from each other.

So I'm curiouse now about one thing...

If a Quarian supporter can acknowledge that the Geth allied themselves out of desperation of survival with the Reapers. Can a Geth supporter at least acknowledge that the Quarians were desperate to survive as well?

Can we at least acknowledge the desperation of both races?

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

[And AGAIN, it is of an observation of ONE SPICIFIC SECOND. An observation of a situation at THAT SPICIFIC MOMENT. Which, as proven by the Codex, CHANGED. JUST as I said, Completely vunerible does NOT mean they couldn't shoot or fight. They DID. It's right there in the Codex. The geth DID fire when they had the chance. Being stunned inturrupted them, but did NOT make them have second thoughts about shooting. As soon as the shock faded, they RESUMED shooting.


After the quarians eliminated the Reaper, the geth's processing power dropped precipitously and their bandwidth became clogged with queries for new instructions. Quarian fighters reported the exact positions of geth ships so that the liveships could fire safely on the geth from the far side of Tikkun, using the star's gravity as a slingshot. The geth command-and-control network was now in tatters, their forces separated by vast distances. The quarians hunted them like animals. It was not a one-sided victory -- despite vast losses, the geth staged a tireless defense -- but it was final.


And AGAIN, Codex trumps your word of mouth. Being stuned isn't stoppong shooting. It's interrupting the shooting, but not STOPPING it, as the geth continue the instant the shock fades. You can twist it however you want, but it DOESN'T change the LISTED FACTUAL battle transcript in the damn Codex. Gerrel's observation of that one second after the Reaper dies is shown to not represent the entire fight.
AGAIN, you waste time and effort spinning your wheels. Just let it go.

And if you had said Completely Vulnerable was just referring to just that moment and things changed then we wouldn't be having this argument that is not what you said.  You said completely vunerables does not mean stopped shooting, it likely means barriers are down.  No it doesn't silver.  It means they stopped firing.  You statement was incorrect.  You could have said Completely Vulnerable meant they stopped firing but then later they started firing again.  You did not.

Gherel: You did it Shepard. The Geth Fleet have STOPPED FIRING. They are COMPLETELY VULNERABLE.



Silver's factually inaccurate interpretation.

AGAIN, you refuse to acknowledge the Codex. AGAIN, you take word of mouth as the unltimate soruce of info. And you WONDER why so many abandon you in the debate as unreasonable. AGAIN, COMPLETELY VULNERABLE does NOT mean they STOPPED SHOOTING. It likely means barriers are down, and they have lost all sense of coordination. NOT that they are defenseless.

Good God, do you ever let ANYTHING drop? Earlier, you were trying to tell people off not letting it go. Yet here you are, beating your head against a Brick Wall, trying to say that FACTUAL LORE isn't true. Do you see the redundancy, here?

My arguement about completely vunerible being limited to total, irricoverible failure of barriers did NOT change at all. The geth can still shoot at you. The "vuneribility" means easy to destroy. NOT that they are completely defenseless. Which the Codex proves is EXACTALLY THE CASE. The geth were still able to defend themselves. The terms "Not a one-sided victory" and "tireless defense" are proof that the geth were NOT unable to fire back. And you NEVER once actually said how the above fit in to your little interpertation of the fight. HOW were they able to stage a "tireless defense" and hav it "not a one-sided battle" if they were as completely vunerible as Gerrel observed for ONE SECOND.

AGAIN:

After the quarians eliminated the Reaper, the geth's processing power dropped precipitously and their bandwidth became clogged with queries for new instructions. Quarian fighters reported the exact positions of  geth ships so that the liveships could fire safely on the geth from the far side of Tikkun, using the star's gravity as a slingshot. The geth command-and-control network was now in tatters, their forces separated by vast distances. The quarians hunted them like animals. It was not a one-sided victory -- despite vast losses, the geth staged a tireless defense -- but it was final.

As long as you keep trying to BS me, I will toss it right back. The proof of my statement is right above me. AGAIN, nothing you say will change the factual battle transcript.
Let. It. Go.

Użytkownik silverexile17s edytował ten post 16 kwiecień 2013 - 08:12

[silverexile17s]

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]1. Actually, it was that Cerberus and the Reapers were worling right next to each-other, did nothing to stop each-other, and were actually both attacking the same targets.
Also, "Reaper slaves." Plus, "indoctrinated madman" as stated by Brooks in ME3: Citadel.[/quote]
Both are focused on Shepard and the turians. And I never denied they were indoctrinated.

[quote]2. Because they are basicalluy the SAME THING. The Code is the synthetic analouge to the Cerberus Implants. They both are Reaper-based, and both ensure Reaper dominance.[/quote]
But... they're not. You're getting the code mixed up with the control signal again.

[quote]3. YOU do realize that Cerberus got in and out of the Omega-4 relay in the "Invasion" Comics, and continued to harvest tech from the Collector Base, including the dead human proto-Reaper, WITHOUT the IFF, right? Care to explain that one?[/quote]
Um, no. They copied the IFF from the Normandy.

[quote]And AGAIN: Crew taken, Normandy disabled. Reaper tech = risky to use. Unreliable to bank on.[/quote]
So, you never finished ME2.

[quote]5. NO. I have stated nothing but reasons why it CAN'T be trusted, and how the people that worked with it can be indoctrinated far too easily. Also, since you didn't actually MAKE any real refute, I'm going to go on a limb and say you are BSing me. Please make a real retort.[/quote]
But you just said that quantum shielding makes us safe.

[quote]6. No. The Collectors repurposing their own tech to better suit themselves over 50,000 years however, does.[/quote]
While under the control of the Reapers.

[quote]8. IT STILL GROWS BACK. That's my POINT here.
And you yourself just validated what I said: Removing the Reaper infection opened up the chance to get those Primes free. They would NOT have joined of their own free will if that code still existed. Every time Shepard removed Reaper code, THAT was what allowed them to be free. [/quote]
I've never seen it do so. Also, you're now just making assertions without evidence.

[quote]9. NO THEY AREN'T. They are intertwined - a package set. One with the other. [/quote]
Um, they're not a packaged set, as is clearly seen when the geth don't fall under Reaper control again. I mean, you can try to come up with justifications for why your character was wrong, although none of them seem very good so far, but that doesn't change the fact that he and you were both wrong.

[quote]10. Yes, always. One man's crime is anothers justice as the saying goes, I think.[/quote]
So you're wholly a moral relativist?

[quote]11. The Codex tells you that Reaper Destroyers are "lesser Reapers." They are not as large or powerfull. They also seem to hack intelligence, given the Destroyer that dies on Tuchanka against Kalros.[/quote]
That... was a bit of a non sequitur, really.

[quote]And Sovergien created that Virus the Heretics were going to use. Enslaving them all WAS the plan appearantly.[/quote]
Rewriting their goals, which doesn't extend to controlling their actions as if through indoctrination. Ironically, the Reaper code upgrades would probably make them immune to that tactic, due to vastly increasing their complexity.

[quote]13: WHAT??
There are at least an equal number of asari to the humans, or salarians. That numbers in the billions. There would be at least sevral thousand matriarchs out of those many billions. It's SIMPLE MATH. Not rocket science.
And for the record, Lessus is UNINHABITED save for that one Monastary.
Look at the designs for once. Not the similar framework. The only difference is in the edges. The edges of asari weapons are smooth. Prothean weapons have sharp edges to them. But the two look fundimentally similar. [/quote]
But how could it possibly be useful for them to all have this information, which isn't necessary for their jobs and creates gapingly huge security holes? And wow, they're both... gun-shaped?[/quote]
1. Indoctrinated = Reaper slave. That's what Cerberus is.

2. AGAIN, they are the SAME THING. They are a symbiotic package. The control code transmits THROUGH the upgrades.

3. HOW? The Normandy broke away from Cerberus immediately after the Omega-4 Relay. HOW the hell could they copy the tech? Whatever they did, I doubt it involved replicating the things.

4. YES, I finished ME2. That's the reason I know that it put the entire crew of the Normandy at risk. THAT is a problem, because you act like the end justified the means. It STILL doesn't change the fact that the thing put people at risk, REGARDLESS of the end results.

5. When people KNOW TO USE IT. No one knew what Sovergien was, or believed any of what Shepard claimed about it, except a select few, like Dr. Bryson. So the majority of people looking at the tech would NOT know to use quantum shielding.

6. They still produced their own tech by repurposing the tech of their past lives.

7. Legion personally says that he made contact as the Reaper code was cleared out. NOT beforehand. H ehad to wait until the code was removed.

8. AGAIN, it's a massive risk to take, believing that the Reapers could never regain control. How do we know how long it would last. We fortinutely don't give the Reapers enough time to do so.
Explain to me exactally how someone makes "safe" Reaper code. Shepard gives a fragment to an Asari Stratigest, saying to "please be careful with it." Stating it's NOT as safe as you claim it to be. She is able to use it to try and understand Reaper stratigizing processes, meaning that it STILL retains some form of thinking/anylitical capability.

9. It's all dependant on circumstance. For example, the first time I played ME1, I never recruted Wrex. I didn't even meet him till my second playthrough. In my first playthrough, I never had Wrex, never meet him, and so-on. So Wreve was my Korgan Leader when I imported through the other games (after I'd played through ME1 several more times). In a circumstance like that, with Wreve in charge, THEN, I could understand why the sabotage of the genophage would be necessary. Because as they are, the krogan are a race that will never change, and will do more harm then good in the long run. The same could possibly be said of the geth if you have the Geth V.I. instead of Legion.

10. Regardless, the Destroyers are listed as being lesser to the Sovergien-class.

11. Bring Garrus to the Heretic Station. When he hears about the capabilities of the Virus, he says " That sound's dangerously close to indoctrination, unless there's something  I'm missing. Maybe this is just how A.I.s settle religious disputes." And DESPITE having Legion right next to him, he still calls the True Geth a threat to organics, and that giving the Heretics will strengthen them, showing he is against the prospect.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_QmG57VwZs

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

EVERY SINGLE TURIAN PLANET shown in under attack. It's absurd to think that the rest of turian space isn't in similar straits. And AGAIN, they need those worlds for their own people. They don't have the resources to manage 17 million quarians, who need clean rooms and isolated treatment centers because of their immune systems, and specilized rations in a time of war where getting specially requested supplies is nearly impossible. It's just not phesible. Not in a time of galaxy-wide war. They either have to be self-sufficant, or they will be written off as a burden and a liability if they can't pull their weight.

And weren't YOU using the "60 years" definition used by her? And again, that was before people knew the Reapers were on the doorstep.

AGAIN, victory HAS been shown to be possible in fighting the Reapers, while negotiation NEVER worked.
I mean. look at what's happened to everyone that did try. Husk, or
indoctrinated. You REALLY are trying to aruge that negotiating with the Reapers is a good idea? And AGAIN, multiple Reapers dead. Survival in fighting = MUCH longer then survival throiugh negotiation.
The numbers don't lie: Fighting the "unbeatible" enemy has worked more then negotiating with them has.

Not by the Reapers.  Cerberus is already an enemy and one the Alliance, Turians and Flotilla can defeat.  That is a lot smarter than going against the Geth alone and when they are currently not attacking you.

I was using a statement that I thought someone made that said 60 years on Rannoch would be 100 years on another colony.  Not 600.  If I was wrong and the only reference to 60 years was the 600 then I was mistaken.  See how I just admitted I may have been mistaken.  I don't care to try and find if someone else said 60 vs 100 years so I will say at this stage it seems I made a mistake on the time. 

Why because when I say something like completely vulnerable does not mean stopped firing and I am provided with clear cut evdience it does, I simply accept I made a mistake.  I don't try and say but, but, the situation changed because of a codex.

Now that I have admitted the mistake, I can then make the point that Koris supports a colony so not sure Tali's statement is meant to be 100% fact.  It is her opinion.

No no negotiation with the Reapers is not a good idea because it still results in extinction. The only thing in the game proven to be a good idea is to hide like Leviathan and Javik.  Those are the only people who survived without being turned into slaves like the Collectors.

They have enough strength to occupy Omega with military-precice force, have a private fleet, and can attack and occupy turian colonies like Apheus. And then there are the Collectors, and the Reapers themselves.
And AGAIN, zero choice. It was NOT out of hate, but out of desperation to get a world. You don't have that, and you can't conrtibute to the war, or have anywhere your civilians can shelter.

And at least you admit that much.

And again, the situation is PROVEN by the Codex. That the geth's fire did not stop, but pause, is a Codex-confirmed fact.

And again, the colony is Koris opinion. The quarians were looking for 300 years. They haven't had any luck whatsoever. If they'd had luck at all in looking for a new world, they would never have become so desperate as to attakc the geth in the first place.

And again, at least Fighting GETS results. Negotiating with the Reapers never brought anything. But fighting at the very least outlasted the survival time given by negotiation. Every time they one any battle, or brought down a Reaper, that's a victory negotiation wouldn't have brought.
And that same mindset is how the quarians view the geth.

[silverexile17s]

Dunabar wrote...

remydat wrote...

Dunabar wrote...

So X millions of Quarians should rise up against the council. So Hypothetically speaking if this war was to happen you woud be looking at something about like this..

Quarians vs. Turians, Salarians, and Asari.

Now who is going to come to the aid of the Quarians if this was to happen?

Humans? They haven't even met up with the Turians yet for the first time.
Krogan? Their fighting force has been pretty much kicked into the dirt by the same three races.
Volus? They're under the Protectorate of the Turians, so in a way they most likely would be at war also with the Quarians. Not to mention Volus don't exactly have a military.
Elcor? Not sure what reason the Elcor would have to support the Quarians, doubt they would want to fall out of good graces with the Council either.
Hanar? Let's keep moving on...
Drell? Not entirely sure here, I need to read up more on them. Leave this at a 'Maybe', but not entirely sure. Don't think they had any sort of Military really
Batarians? I don't really see the Batarians doing such, but hey never know
Geth? Yeah...I don't see that happening, more so since both races haven't settle any sort of differences
Raloi? I don't think they were discovered yet at this time..
Vorcha? Much like the Hanar, let's keep moving on...
Yahg? Eh...yeah no entirely. Both sides for that matter

What time period are you talking about?  Pre-MW?  

Pre-MW, the Quarians numbered in the billions.  They were far more advanced than humans when the humans took on the Turians.  So why are you assuming they could not fight?  How are humans alive then?  Oh an by the way, Pre-MW they would have had the Geth on their side and we all saw how effective the Geth can fight to the tune of billions of dead Quarians.  So no, I reject this logic.  Humans had far less going for them and the fought long enough to convince the Council to end the fighting.  Quarians could have done the same with the Geth I might add pre-MW.

Post morning war, they have the largest fleet in the Galaxy.  If you are telling me the Council would go to war to deny the Quarians a homeworld then why are the Quarians even talking to them?  What sort of sadistic f**ks are you following if they would kill you instead of let you settle a planet?  And more importantly, how does it benefit the council?  Who goes to war and risks their lives for absolutely no gain?  

Largest fleet doesn't mean strongest fleet just to put that out there. They were in hopes of settling on Ekuna in an attempt to establish a new homeworld, so this is post-Morning War which would mean they don't have the Geth anymore, their numbers are not in the billions, they have no planet of their own which means they don't have the ability to establish a supply-line of any kind, and pretty much all they got is whatever weapons they have, out dated ships, their suits, and whatever hope they have to see Rannoch beyond just a vid.

Now if I may you just said a few things that made me smile.

remydat wrote...
If you are telling me the Council would go to war to deny the Quarians a
homeworld then why are the Quarians even talking to them?

Well you said it yourself "Who goes to war and risks their lives for absolutely no gain?" So they flip the council the bird, settle on the planet, and now wait to see if the council will make good on their threat.

Now they do have something to gain from all of this and that's a new homeworld, even though Ekuna isn't even that great for them, it still gives them something. However what will it cost them in the process of doing so? Are you willing to risk going to war against the Turians who provided aid to the Salarians and Asari to claim victory over the Krogan during the KR? Are you prepared to fight the Asari whose influence has managed to actually bring races together, whose small but highly trained forces are even given praise by the Turians, and whose people are all biotics? Are you ready to go to war with the Salarians whose very own Special Tasks group developed the Genophage and was actually the influence that developed the Council Agents, the Spectres? Not to mention that Spectres answer only to the council and are actually above the law, so if the Council goes to War, the Spectres go with them.

Does that really sound like something the Quarians are able to fight at this time? They have no aid, no homeworld, no major access to military equipment like these three races do, they lose any access at all to the resources they could get from council space, and they wouldn't have time to really set up anything proper in the way of defenses or infrastructure to support them before the council comes knocking with bombs, soldiers, & their fleets.

I love the Quarians, but at this time they were not ready for such a war. They were more focused on finding a world to call home, maintain a slowly dying fleet, and studying the geth where & when they could.

remydat wrote...
What sort of
sadistic f**ks are you following if they would kill you instead of let
you settle a planet?  And more importantly, how does it benefit the
council? 

Well those same sadistic people were actually the ones that were keeping the Quarians from attacking the Geth. What do they gain though? Not sure, that wasn't very clear in their intent. However a lot of corporations would hire Quarians as a cheaper labor force, maybe they got a tax break for giving Quarians jobs, shelter, and the such. Not saying it is what they gained benefit from, but it is a thought of some sort.

remydat wrote...
Who goes to war and risks their lives for absolutely no
gain?  

I think Garrus said it himself "A near eminent death has a way of motivating people." I think that's how he put it.

With the Reapers invading the galaxy and hope slowly starting to fade with all corners of the galaxy under siege. The Quarians are on the brink of extinction just like every other organic is and the difference between them, is that the Quarians were closer to the edge than everyone else. Now granted the Reaper invasion was,,,(I think) about 100 or more years later. But think about it..

"Who goes to war and risks their lives for absolutely no gain?"

Years of researching and understanding the Geth
Years of searching for a homeworld
Years of being treated as a second class citizen by most of the galaxy
Years of dreaming of one day returning to Rannoch
All now under the shadow of the Reaper invasion.

I think at this point it is safe to say that the years of mistreatment by the council races, the invasion of the Reapers, and mix it all in with a hint of desperation to return to the homeworld of your people. You now have the modern Quarian-Geth conflict.

Whole galaxy is going belly up, Reapers are invading system after system, and their only hope for survival was going through the Geth so they had a place to house their civilians to aid the galaxy. Pretty good way of flipping the council the bird finger and taking a chance at living the dream of your people of returning to the homeworld.

So here we stand, two races, the Quarians, and the Geth. Neither has anyone outside of Shepard who honestly gives a damn about them. Geth supporters care about the Geth, Quarian supporters care about the Quarians, and those who love both of them save them both from each other.

So I'm curiouse now about one thing...

If a Quarian supporter can acknowledge that the Geth allied themselves out of desperation of survival with the Reapers. Can a Geth supporter at least acknowledge that the Quarians were desperate to survive as well?

Can we at least acknowledge the desperation of both races?

Agreed. The quarian's desperation was what drove them to war, the same as the geth's desperation drove them to side with the Reapers.

[ConanTheLeader]

Quarians without a doubt.

Geth are just robots, they are not living while Quarians are actually beings capable of thought.

To me this question sounds like would I say my robo dog or my actual dog?

[remydat]

Dunabar,

You still miss the fundamental issue.

1. What is there to gain by the council? War cost lives period. What will the get for the risk?

2. Show me where an attempt was made and denied before they went to war? The issue isn't whether this would work 100%. The issue is when the alternative is your kids going to war, you at least have thediscussion. The turians may have told the Krogran to f off about the cure. Hell no one believed krogans would agree to help except Shep. The point is he still tried and the Turians were desperate. So you are telling me the Krogan were smarter because they at least had the sense to TRY. The Quarians would have lost nothing by TRYING. That is the least you can do to before sending kids to war. You TRY.

That is the difference. The Geth were already in a war they were dying and had no one to turn to. The Quarians were not be killed at that moment, could have talked to the Council, the Turians or more importantly Shep to see if something could be worked out after the Reapers attacked but they didn't. They used War as the first solution instead of as a last resort.

The only defense is but they word never agree to this but they would never agree to cure the genophage either until you TRY. So it is a tenuous argument.

[remydat]

Silver,

I have no reason to let it drop when you continue to hide from you mistake. Gherel used the term and he used the term because they stopped firing. That is 100% true. You saying they did not stop shooting is 100% false. What they did after per the codex is irrelevant to whether you were wrong about why Gherel made the statment. He made it for one reason per the game.

As for Omega, they were defeated by a private army and Shep. Sorry they would get steamrilled if the Alliance, Turians, Quarians and Krogans (now allies) decide they want to takr bsck one of the Turian planets they took as a condition for Quarians joining the war.

[Chris Priestly]

Ok. Given the swearing and general onsidedness of responses (of the 4693 repsonses so far, 1465 are from 2 people, I think you know which two). this thread is closed.

If you want to continue the discussion, I suggest you start a Group for those interested.


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