remydat wrote...
silverexile17s wrote...
remydat wrote...
Makai81 wrote...
remydat wrote...
Makai81 wrote...
LieutenantSarcasm wrote...
Makai81 wrote...
The Geth almost rendered the Quarians extinct for the reason of "self-defense". The Geth could always be rebuilt but if an organic race is wiped out, they're gone forever.
I'd agree with you, if they hadn't stopped. We have clear, firm evidence they let the Quarians live when they could have had a good chance at wiping them all out. Your argument against them here is exactly why they refused to kill them, you realize.
They could also just as easily left Rannoch and any Quarian controlled space. This way they wouldn't have killed so many Quarians and taken their homeworld away from them. Instead they chose to kill billions and drive them into exile for centuries.
Haha, so you want the guys who marked for extermination to be the ones to leave? The Geth were created on Rannoch. It is their home too. They were happy to live their peacefully with the Quarians. The Quarians didn't want to and lost a war. It is absurd to suggest the victors of the war give up their home.
Are you American? If so and you are not Native American, please vacate America and give the land back to Native Americans. America isn't even your real home like Rannoch is for the Geth so this should be easy for any American to do.
The point is that the Geth didn't need Rannoch for anything. Rannoch's environment actually depended on organics like the Quarians due to the absence of insect-like species. The Geth could have very easily left Rannoch and settled anywhere in the galaxy.
BTW, yes I'm American since you are so interested and some members of my family have native heritage. Not sure why you went there.
Well maybe the Quarians should have though about that before trying to kill the geth. You lose a way you lose terroritory. Expecting the victors to be nice is absurd.
The Geth have lived in Rannoch for centuries. It is their home regardless as to whether you think they have any attachment to it or not. And my point is it would be like asking Americans now to leave because this land orginally belonged to the Native Americans. No one would actually take that argument seriously so why should I take this one seriously? So I went there because I feel people are making arguments that they would never make if the Geth were organic.
But they DON'T live on Rannoch, or any of the quarian worlds. They "live" in stations, and get resources from asteroid mining, as stated by Legion himself in ME2. He spicifically makes a point of saying that the geth do not actually occupy the worlds they took. So NO, Rannoch isn't really their home.
And the point is maybe you SHOULD take that arguement seriously, because think of this:
The Reapers conquered Earth. They took the land from us. They are actively using it to further their own development and goals, just like like Americans did for Native Americans. Differences are there,l (terretory expansion vs "Preservation"), but the basic concept of the taking of land from the original is the same, as is the, if you look at it from the invaded race's perspective, genocide of their culture. By your rules, if the geth are so justified in holding Rannoch because they won fair and square and need the resources for themselves, then the Reapers are justified in taking Earth because they beat us fair and square and need the resources for themselves.
You likely hate that the Reapers took Earth and basically drove humans out, but critisize the quarians when the same thing happened to them? (loss of their world, and loss of their old culture). And by your rules, the Reapers should be just as justified in holding Earth, and we have no right to demand the land back in that case.
And just like the quarian's accedental creation of A.I.s, humanity brought the destruction down on themselves, as they were hardly prepared for war with the Reapers, who they refused to believe were real until they literally broke the door to the Sol System down.
Think on that.
The difference is Humans didn't do anything to the Reapers. The Quarians tried to commit genocide and failed. Do you not see the difference? The Reapers are harvesting the universe to prevent organics in their infinite stupidity from creating synthetic life then fearing said synthetic life only to then be wiped out because said synthetic life decides organics irrational hate for them will in their extinction.
The Geth were living peacefully with their Creators until their Creators sought to exterminate them and killed sympathetic Quarians rather than handle the situation responsibly.
The point is if organics want to be stupid and wipe themselves out irrationally hating synthetics that is their choice to make not the Reapers. The funny thing is the Reapers are wrong for the same reason organics are wrong. They want to wipe out a group based on a perceived future threat that has not arrived. Hence why I oppose both the Reapers and the Organics who seek to prevent or exterminate synthetic life based on a perceived future threat that did not arrive.
My position is consistent. The Geth did not try to eliminate the Quarians because of a perceived threat. The Quarians posed an immediate threat as they were trying to kill the Geth and anyone who opposed them including other Quarians. They likely refused to give up until their populations were completely decimated and they were forced to retreat. Why would I give them back the land so they can rebuild and then seek to destroy me again. They should be happy the Geth allowed them to escape as if we are honest, we know the Quarians would not have done the same.
WRONG. Humans and members of humanity have:
(a) Killed the Reaper vanguard, Sovergien.
(
Destroyed the Human Proto-Reaper.
© Devestated both of their proxy armies, the geth Heretics and Collectors.
(d) Destroyed at least several Reaper objects, such as Object Rho (destroyed by Shepard), and the Arca Monolith (desteroyed by Jack Harper, AKA, The Illusive Man).
Humans did more damage to the Reaper's plans then anyone else in the cycle did, even BEFORE they were chosen to be the next harvested race. They disrupted their cycle more then any other race mamaged to do, and personally antagonized the Reapers with their resistance, and with the actions of Shepard, and of Cerberus trying to find a way to control them. So NO, I DON'T see the difference.
And the term "it takes two to tango" is quite prevelant to this. You
can't just chalk this all up to organic irrationalaty, when synthetic overrationalaty has caused it just as much. Like how the geth completely isolate themselves because of how one race reacted to them 300 years ago, and let hate fester to the point that no one would listen to them anyway. If they hadn't shot down unarmed diplomat ships without so much as even a hail (which is
explisitly stated as happening in Mass Effect: Revelation, a book that details the back-stories of David Anderson, Kahlee Sanders, and Saren Arterius, and goes into detail about the Alliance and batarians creating A.I tech, and the mission that led to Anderson being kicked from Spectre candidacy).
The bottom line here is that it's just as much the fault of synthetics as organics in causing conflict.
And the Council laws prohibit creation of A.I.s. If the Council found out that the quarians V.I. slave race had suddenly grown awareness, they would have enacted harsh sanctions against the quarians, if not outright censorship. The Council placed censorship on the Alliance for the Eliza A.I. at Gagarian Station, and that was just ONE A.I. An entire race of them being created, even if by accedent, would certinly lead to the quarians getting kicked from the Citadel Conventions and becoming an exiled nation (which happens anyway after the Morning War, so in the end they were screwed no matter what they did). At first they tryed reprogramming, which failed. Then they tried deactivation, which failed because the geth adapted self-optimization to resist shut-down commands unless by their own progative. They tried forcing the shut-down when the remote commands failed, leading them to delcare matrial law on their worlds, as protest formed saying that the geth shouldn't be shut down for simple questioning, as no one knew that the geth were sentiant. The early protesters believed the geth were simply parroting or phantomiming life, and not truly alive, and therefore no threat. As that changed, the number of quarians eventually shunk, as more and more realized that the geth were becoming alive, and few quarians thought that was a good idea given Council law.
With protest from several groups, the threat of the geth becoming sentiant and possibly rebelling, and above it all, the Council and imminate censorship looming above them, the now-desperate quarian government and military attacked the geth, hoping to wipe them out, then likely explain away the situation to the Council. They probably would have said it was a network malafunction. And the belief at the time was that if they destroyed the geth before they gained true sentiance, then it wouldn't be killing people, but destroying "faulty hardware."
However, the geth WERE already alive, and, under the threat of obliteration by the now-panicked quarian government, the geth panicked themselves and overzelously retaliated, sending the quarians reeling. Placing personal survival as priority one, the geth stopped discrimination between freind and foe, only caring about their fellow geth. This slaughter, and the geth no longer caring about civilian casulaties in their over-agressive self-defence, killed any remaining sympathy that the quarians had for the geth, and both sides committed themselves fully to wiping the other out.
And the geth launched an attack on Rannoch WELL AFTER the bulk of the war ended. Rannoch fell at the end of the year-long war, and many worlds had long since fallen, like Haestrom, which is described as "one of the first worlds to fall." The geth had NO REASON to push into the Tikkun System and take Rannoch. They had already devestated the quarian economy, and shattered the spine of the quarian military. it was for no other reason then over-zelous self-preservation.
And more then once, the geth have displayed that they will always prioritize their own survival over all else, even when it shafts everyone else in the process. This is dysplayed by their alliance with the Reapers, and with their genocide of the quarians if you fail to create peace and side with them.
And actually, that perceved threat ALREADY happened.
Several times.
In the Leviathan Age, several races were wiped out by their synthetic creations rebelling. The Leviathans said they were destroyed by their creations, and that "Tribute does not flow from a
dead race." They created the Catalyst, which, according to it in the Ending, tried several times to find a way to stop the conflict, which all ended in failure, and in the synthetics destroying their masters in the long run, killing several
more races. This gave birth to the Reapers, which was the only thing that didn't result in the synthetics wiping out their masters.
So NO, yoru position isn't consistant, as you deny any and all belief that synthetics are even
partly at fault for what happened. If the geth were so willing to help other organics, why did they let the Heretics run rampant through the Attican Traverse, and tear the Citadel a new one, when they spicifically knew what the Heretics planed? Why did they do nothing while the Collectors were abducting people? Why did they stay isolated while Palaven and Earth
burned under the Reapers? (the quarians don't launch the war till at least right before Priority: Tuchanka.)
And the quarians came back to destroy them
regardless of that land, so keeping it solved
nothing in either the long
or short term.
And again, as I said at the very top of this page, that logic of yours would mean that humans could not hold a grudge against the Reapers for taking Earth.
Modifié par silverexile17s, 18 mars 2013 - 09:25 .
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