4745 ответов в этой теме

[BaneForever]

 I would let them destroy each other. Legion lies to you multiple times during Rannoch. And the Quarians go to war with the Geth when I told them not to. And the geth allied with the Reapers way too easy so I can't really trust them.

[New Display Name]

No, they sided with the reapers (doubly so if you count the heretics), lied to Shepard, and want to upgrade themselves with reaper code. Their loyalty does not lie with organics.

They also can be rebuilt anyway, in whatever case would require it.

Сообщение изменено: HJF4, 17 Март 2013 - 12:17 .

[Argolas]

I'll just copypaste my previous post on that decision. I used to make peace, now I destroy the Geth even with peace available.

First off, this is a decision without metagaming. I know that peace is the best outcome, at least for the war which should have priority at that point.

I've always achieved peace so far. To be honest, I always did the persuasion options whenever they were available so far, but in this case, I now chose not to do it in my current and probably for a long time final playthrough.

In Mass Effect 2, Legion represents the Geth consensus. He explains many things, among them the difference between receiving a technology or developing it yourself and that the difference between a true Geth and a Heretic is not more than a slight math difference. In ME3, the Reapers had Legion, and it is not the same anymore. It is an individual. It is ready to accept Reaper tech. Heretic or not, Legion was altered.

Don't get the wrong idea now, I still consider Legion a friend. It fights with us against the Reapers and saves a lot of Quarian lifes. I just have a reason to mistrust it's judgement now. And then we are there.

The Quarians made a mistake by launching the invasion to begin with, but right at the moment we are making our decision, they act fairly reasonable considering their home world is at stake. They can be convinced to back down. That's how you achieve peace.
With Reaper code, Legion has become an individual. He no longer represents the Geth consensus. He is willing to upload the code to all Geth no matter the cost. He can not be convinced to back down. You either let him upload the code or kill him.

Uploading Reaper code in a Synthetic seems equally insane like implanting Reaper tech into an Organic. Although through metagaming I know it will work, Shepard has no reason to believe it will. So in the end, I choose to destroy Legion.

Сообщение изменено: Argolas, 17 Март 2013 - 12:21 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Arisugawa wrote...

The Quarians.

Not because I like them more, but because the Geth VI or Legion is holding back their support of the alliance and the lives of the Quarian fleet on the condition that I allow the entire Geth nation to be upgraded with Reaper code.

This isn't something I would have permitted any other nation. We're appalled that Cerberus is doing it to their soldiers, for example. If I would have had my choice in Mass Effect 2, I would have shut EDI down the moment I learned that she was developed partially with tech from Sovereign.

I would gladly negotiate with and accept the help of the gestalt intelligence Geth. Whatever the Geth become after the Reaper code is uploaded, they are no longer the species I was interacting with in Mass Effect 2.

So much of what happens after the Reaper Code is uploaded is left deliberately and frustratingly vague. Legion says that every Geth "unit" would be a true intelligence...but is he referring to every Geth runtime, of which he was made up of 1183? Is he referring to every Geth platform, meaning the total runtimes necessary to run a mobile platform? Does he mean every Geth platform currently in operation? Post-upload when peace is brokered, Tali makes mention of Geth uploading into Quarian livesuits...but what exactly is uploading?

The writers left all of that unanswered, and I fear they actually don't know or if they do, they didn't consider all the ramifications of it beyond it as a plot point. Regardless, it leaves me as Shepard in a position where for me to get Geth help, I have to allow the entire species to use Reaper code upgrades and I honestly have no idea what that is going to do, and I'm certainly not going to risk it in the middle of a conflict with the Reapers themselves when the Geth (both the Heretics and the true Geth) have worked with the Reapers in the past.

Very well put, I agree with everything you said.

I think a problem with their lack of explanation, coupled with their reversal on the geth's AI status (in that they're not 'true AI' unless they have Reaper Code), is that it makes it much harder to make a case for sparing them. If they're not truly AI, then what exactly is the dilemma in allowing their destruction? If they are, then why do they suddenly need Reaper Code in the first place?

To me it seems like Rannoch was written not to make sense but specifically to manipulate the viewer, much like the EC had EDI (who by all indications and admissions prior was already alive) announce that she didn't know how not really alive she was until Synthesis made her into a real boy girl, completely undermining her entire character arc. But gee, if she isn't really alive without Synthesis, then what exactly is my downside for picking Destroy?

[Only-Twin]

One thing I was thinking: we do not know the details of the morning war outside what Legion tells us. Sure, the geth were forced into taking up arms, but how did it go from them taking up arms to the near extinction of all quarian people? Defense is one thing, but the geth must have been quite ruthless. They killed nearly every quarian man, woman, and child in existence, then isolated themselves and attacked any organic to come into their system. 

Сообщение изменено: Only-Twin, 17 Март 2013 - 12:44 .

[Phatose]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I think a problem with their lack of explanation, coupled with their reversal on the geth's AI status (in that they're not 'true AI' unless they have Reaper Code), is that it makes it much harder to make a case for sparing them. If they're not truly AI, then what exactly is the dilemma in allowing their destruction? If they are, then why do they suddenly need Reaper Code in the first place?

To me it seems like Rannoch was written not to make sense but specifically to manipulate the viewer, much like the EC had EDI (who by all indications and admissions prior was already alive) announce that she didn't know how not really alive she was until Synthesis made her into a real boy girl, completely undermining her entire character arc. But gee, if she isn't really alive without Synthesis, then what exactly is my downside for picking Destroy?

You know *exactly* why they suddenly need Reaper code.  Their intelligence is collective, and a certain hyper-aggressive race just managed to wipe out an awful large number of them, dropping the IQ of the rest of them as well.

[sravenblood]

Reaper Code=Indoctrination. Legion is Indoctrinated.Wants to Indoctrinate the rest of his fellows. Will kill Shepard without hesitation. Legion and Geth die. I always pick the Quarians.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Phatose wrote...

You know *exactly* why they suddenly need Reaper code.  Their intelligence is collective, and a certain hyper-aggressive race just managed to wipe out an awful large number of them, dropping the IQ of the rest of them as well.

There's no indication that they can't recover from this setback on their own in the event of a truce. But since we're not allowed to actually suggest that or otherwise talk them out of the idiotic decision of adding in Reaper code, they leave me no choice.

[DeinonSlayer]

phillip100 wrote...

I would choose the Quarians.

This. I don't care what the Geth are capable of; we have next to no reason to trust them.

Besides, I blew up the heretics, so technically they're the weaker of the two.

Сообщение изменено: DeinonSlayer, 17 Март 2013 - 01:06 .

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

Anyone that picks the Quarians and re-wrote the Geth is an idiot and should never have the choice of this decision.

The Geth will help you win the war, the Quarians will provide you Tali and the ****tastic ships. Also, in terms of justice, the Quarians are the aggressors.

It's like NK (Quarians, weaker etc) invading the US (Geth, stronger etc) and the UN decides to help NK (Quarians). Makes no sense.

Even if I was romancing Tali, I would still sacrifice the Quarians. What's better, winning a war for life or having mild-sex with Tali? I'm done, /endthread.

[Only-Twin]

That's a really shallow way of looking at it.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

^How so? I'd say the people wanting Tali over it are shallow but whatever. Shepard getting rid of his blue balls is much more important.

sravenblood wrote...

Reaper Code=Indoctrination. Legion is Indoctrinated.Wants to Indoctrinate the rest of his fellows. Will kill Shepard without hesitation. Legion and Geth die. I always pick the Quarians.

Legion isn't an organic, he knows that the code doesn't have the controlling properties it had before.

Besides, if you don't trust the Geth at all, pick the Destroy option at the end. The Geth and the Quarians won't survive, but it is better than letting the whole Galaxy down.

Сообщение изменено: ZeCollectorDestroya, 17 Март 2013 - 01:23 .

[Phatose]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
There's no indication that they can't recover from this setback on their own in the event of a truce. But since we're not allowed to actually suggest that or otherwise talk them out of the idiotic decision of adding in Reaper code, they leave me no choice.

Did you not notice how the second they were helpless the Quarians immediately went about killing the rest of them?  Even the truce requires not only Shepard speaking with the authority of two Admirals, it also required the threat that the Geth were about to come back to full strength and wipe them out.  Even then, the Quarians had to think about it.

There wasn't going to be a truce without that code.  The Quarians made quite sure of that.  Not really suprising - it's pretty much their M.O.

[M920CAIN]

IC-07 wrote...

No, I think I wouldn't. Flesh is flesh.

And people eat flesh.

[Only-Twin]

Did you not notice how the second they were helpless the Quarians immediately went about killing the rest of them?

Xen and Gerrel are pretty much all to blame for that, not the quarians as a whole.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Phatose wrote...

Did you not notice how the second they were helpless the Quarians immediately went about killing the rest of them?  Even the truce requires not only Shepard speaking with the authority of two Admirals, it also required the threat that the Geth were about to come back to full strength and wipe them out.  Even then, the Quarians had to think about it.

There wasn't going to be a truce without that code.  The Quarians made quite sure of that.  Not really suprising - it's pretty much their M.O.

I'm not arguing anything about the quarians, I think they behaved abominably. But the way the game is written, you cannot save the geth and deny them the Reaper code. I probably would choose the geth over the quarians if they denied the Reaper code, but that was never an option.

[Phatose]

Only-Twin wrote...

Did you not notice how the second they were helpless the Quarians immediately went about killing the rest of them?

Xen and Gerrel are pretty much all to blame for that, not the quarians as a whole.

I seem to recall a post-peace Tali telling me she would've destroyed the Geth without a second thought.

No, it's not just Xen and Gerrel.  It's all of them.

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Did
you not notice how the second they were helpless the Quarians
immediately went about killing the rest of them?  Even the truce
requires not only Shepard speaking with the authority of two Admirals,
it also required the threat that the Geth were about to come back to
full strength and wipe them out.  Even then, the Quarians had to think
about it.

There wasn't going to be a truce without that code. 
The Quarians made quite sure of that.  Not really suprising - it's
pretty much their M.O.

I'm not arguing anything about the
quarians, I think they behaved abominably. But the way the game is
written, you cannot save the geth and deny them the Reaper code. I
probably would choose the geth over the quarians if they denied the
Reaper code, but that was never an option.

Why should denying them the Reaper code be some moral priority?  Last I checked, Shepard was remade using reaper tech, and now flies around the galaxy on ship enhanced with reaper tech, with guns based on reaper tech, fighting the reapers.

Irony is a reaper-tech based Cyborg telling a robot using reaper tech is too dangerous.

Сообщение изменено: Phatose, 17 Март 2013 - 01:33 .

[NCommand]

I have too much respect to the technological and scientific prowess of the Quarians to let them die by Geth hand

Сообщение изменено: NCommand, 17 Март 2013 - 01:36 .

[Only-Twin]

I seem to recall a post-peace Tali telling me she would've destroyed the Geth without a second thought.

No, it's not just Xen and Gerrel. It's all of them.

Well good job generalizing an entire race.

[Phatose]

Only-Twin wrote...

I seem to recall a post-peace Tali telling me she would've destroyed the Geth without a second thought.

No, it's not just Xen and Gerrel. It's all of them.

Well good job generalizing an entire race.

Do you suppose Xen and Gerrel are firing all those shots themselves?  

[Edolix]

If you side with the Quarians, you're killing one person. If you side with the Geth, you're killing 17 million people, including children.

It's a very clear choice for me. Though such a scenario never happens in my playthroughs, as i'm a peace advocate.

Сообщение изменено: Edolix, 17 Март 2013 - 01:36 .

[Only-Twin]

Phatose wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

I seem to recall a post-peace Tali telling me she would've destroyed the Geth without a second thought.

No, it's not just Xen and Gerrel. It's all of them.

Well good job generalizing an entire race.

Do you suppose Xen and Gerrel are firing all those shots themselves?  

Soldiers take orders. Is this news to you? 

[ThatDancingTurian]

Phatose wrote...

Why should denying them the Reaper code be some moral priority?  Last I checked, Shepard was remade using reaper tech, and now flies around the galaxy on ship enhanced with reaper tech, with guns based on reaper tech, fighting the reapers.

Irony is a reaper-tech based Cyborg telling a robot using reaper tech is too dangerous.

Shepard (and the player) has no choice in the matter. This is in fact the only time I get to decide whether or not my Shepard is complicit in the use of dangerous enemy tech known to corrupt and manipulate its users and I'm darned well going to take the option.

Shepard once said s/he would not let fear compromise the soul of humanity. In allying with the Reapers, the geth have done so to themselves. In my Shepard's opinion, Legion is destroying everything he once stood for by uploading that code; a future created for themselves, free of the influence of the Old Machines.

Сообщение изменено: Aris Ravenstar, 17 Март 2013 - 01:39 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Phatose wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
There's no indication that they can't recover from this setback on their own in the event of a truce. But since we're not allowed to actually suggest that or otherwise talk them out of the idiotic decision of adding in Reaper code, they leave me no choice.

Did you not notice how the second they were helpless the Quarians immediately went about killing the rest of them?  Even the truce requires not only Shepard speaking with the authority of two Admirals, it also required the threat that the Geth were about to come back to full strength and wipe them out.  Even then, the Quarians had to think about it.

There wasn't going to be a truce without that code.  The Quarians made quite sure of that.  Not really suprising - it's pretty much their M.O.

They thought destroying the Geth was the only way they would survive - and if you have the Geth VI with you, they're absolutely right. The VI is representative of what the Quarians were historically up against - the Geth thought process prior to Legion's experiences being added to them. The VI offers to help Shepard, but only if you let it exterminate the Quarians first (earlier, it doesn't even acknowledge those who died defending Geth in the consensus footage).

If you have Legion with you, the Geth offer a ceasefire for the first time in their entire history. The Quarians only die if you don't tell them this; if you encourage the upload and choose not to inform them that it's taking place - for all they know in the outcome where they get wiped out, another Reaper backup came online, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't spare them anyway.

Сообщение изменено: DeinonSlayer, 17 Март 2013 - 01:40 .