4712 réponses à ce sujet

[Iamjdr]

I just don't get how right after the quarians help you kill a reaper your gonna turn around and let the Geth upload the reapers code and kill the quarians.... The Geth were just working with the same reaper that quarians helped me KILL! but your gonna ally with the geth and let them kill the people who just helped you. How does that make sense? Cause Quarian admirals are jerks?

[ghost9191]

because some ppl prefer to betray the qurians over the geth i guess. funny though considering the ppl that don't want to betray the geth by choosing destroy ( not a betrayal i might add ) are pretty quick to betray the qurians.... double standard i suppose

and the who admirals being jerks thing. i mean sure one was but the other 3 . err tali too i guess , weren't. 2 were pretty good ppl . one was a tad bit "obsessed" and other was just trying to save his ppl


@Iamjdr btw




and why doesn't anyone ever talk about the genophage .

Modifié par ghost9191, 18 mars 2013 - 07:34 .

[redcarpet26]

I favor the Geth or peace with the quarians if possible. There is one idea of Synthisis that is true, and it is that Organics will need synthetics as allies for their continued survival and advancement.

[Jukaga]

Kabooooom wrote...

Jukaga, they couldn't leave the galaxy. With insufficient stars to discharge, they would fry as surely as organics would.

But, your other point is a good one. 'Billions of stars off the network' is an understatement, by all indications the network covers less than 1% of the galaxy. That means there are nearly 200 billion stars off the network that would be easy pickings for the Geth.

khelish - again, this is explained in the game, the geth maintain Rannoch FOR THE QUARIANS

Ahh yes, I forgot about that piece of lore regarding discharging the ME engines. But there is no reason they would have to restrict themselves to contemporary galactic tech. They could build huge fusion ram-scoop ships that fly at .1C. Who cares if it takes hundreds of thousands of years to reach the next Galaxy? Though I know I'm getting off-topic.

[MassStorm]

Irrelevant question as i pick always destroy siding with Quarians is logical choice. Geths are wiped out in any case. Organic life is superior.

[Jukaga]

redcarpet26 wrote...

I favor the Geth or peace with the quarians if possible. There is one idea of Synthisis that is true, and it is that Organics will need synthetics as allies for their continued survival and advancement.

Explain your statement please. In real life and in fiction creating actual AI would be the most stupid, unneccesary, illogical, counter-survival act imaginable. How would organics in our real world or fictional ones depend on AIs for our 'advancement'?

[Iamjdr]

Eh it just seems strange to betray your allies to gain allies that were just enemies.

[ghost9191]

Jukaga wrote...

redcarpet26 wrote...

I favor the Geth or peace with the quarians if possible. There is one idea of Synthisis that is true, and it is that Organics will need synthetics as allies for their continued survival and advancement.

Explain your statement please. In real life and in fiction creating actual AI would be the most stupid, unneccesary, illogical, counter-survival act imaginable. How would organics in our real world or fictional ones depend on AIs for our 'advancement'?

kinda agreee. i mean i got the catalyst was trying to push that kinda. at least we need synthetics ( or at least tech ) to be "perfected" but only way i can think that they would help, is just giving organics something else to fight other than each other lol

not adressed to me. but was gonna respond anyways

Modifié par ghost9191, 18 mars 2013 - 07:39 .

[justafan]

Sundance31us wrote...

justafan wrote...

But if his mission was to offer aid to organics, he would have gone to an actual politician or government body.

That's not who I would go to if I wanted to offer aid...well, not if I wanted to aid to get to who needed it any time soon or at all.

They still beat trying to negotiate with a corpse.  News of Shepard's death may have been downplayed, but it's not like it was a big secret or anything.

[ghost9191]

Iamjdr wrote...

Eh it just seems strange to betray your allies to gain allies that were just enemies.

eh ppl like robots . personally playing ME1-3 i felt different. i mean started to like legion in ME2 but then it goes against what It said in ME2 and i just like lol what

its in the codex ppl . geth-heretics

[remydat]

Khelish wrote...

remydat wrote...

That would be true if this were a civil or domestic conflict.  It was war.  You do realise the above concept has no place in war.  At best you could argue it is required to not kill someone who surrendered but we have no evidence the Quarians surrendered except when they fled the planet at which point the Geth let them leave.

Sir, you do realize that billions dead in the span of a year, along with the use of chemical weapons, is not war. It is genocide.

The Geth have no losses in the Morning War. Their units didn't "die".

Here is simple logic.  There are say 2 billion Quarians.  If I am their leader then I probably surrender after say 50 million die.  I have no evidence that any attempt at surrender was made prior to the Quarians being reduced to 17 million people.  Judging by a**holes like Admiral Gherel, I suspect these idiots kept fighting instead of just giving up.

You can't cry when you try and committ gencide and fail.  What was the Geth suppose to do if the Quarians refused to stop fighting?

[CronoDragoon]

silverexile17s wrote...
I don't think the genocide of either race is fair.
Both sides acted out of desperation to live. Is it really fair to blame either the quarians or geth for just wanting to survive?
I don't think so. They both deserve the chance to live, and if it comes to it, I could not pick one side over the other wothout feeling remorse for it. The OLNY exception to that, is if the Geth V.I. replaces Legion.
But I've never let that happen yet, so thus far, nither choice has left me with a clean concionce.

Well, that's fine but doesn't respond to the question raised by the thread, which is if peace were impossible who would you choose?

I think both the quarians and the geth are to blame for the current predicament on Rannoch, and I believe both should get a chance to redeem themselves by trying to coexist peacefully. But that isn't what this thread is about.

[Ryzaki]

Iamjdr wrote...

Eh it just seems strange to betray your allies to gain allies that were just enemies.

Probably because they blew up the geth dreadnaught while I was still on it. I mean unnecessary.

Seriously though the geth were only enemies because the Quarians forced them to be. If they had gone to the Reapers before becoming idiots and losing a good amount of their race then sure I'd side with the Quarians. That's not what happened though.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mars 2013 - 07:44 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...WRONG. Humans and members of humanity  have:
(a) Killed the Reaper vanguard, Sovergien.
( Destroyed the Human Proto-Reaper.
© Devestated both of their proxy armies, the geth Heretics and Collectors.
(d) Destroyed at least several Reaper objects, such as Object Rho (destroyed by Shepard), and the Arca Monolith (desteroyed by Jack Harper, AKA, The Illusive Man).
Humans did more damage to the Reaper's plans then anyone else in the cycle did, even BEFORE they were chosen to be the next harvested race. They disrupted their cycle more then any other race mamaged to do, and personally antagonized the Reapers with their resistance, and with the actions of Shepard, and of Cerberus trying to find a way to control them. So NO, I DON'T see the difference.
And the term "it takes two to tango" is quite prevelant to this. You can't just chalk this all up to organic irrationalaty, when synthetic overrationalaty has caused it just as much. Like how the geth completely isolate themselves because of how one race reacted to them 300 years ago, and let hate fester to the point that no one would listen to them anyway. If they hadn't shot down unarmed diplomat ships without so much as even a hail (which is explisitly stated as happening in Mass Effect: Revelation, a book that details the back-stories of David Anderson, Kahlee Sanders, and Saren Arterius, and goes into detail about the Alliance and batarians creating A.I tech, and the mission that led to Anderson being kicked from Spectre candidacy).
The bottom line here is that it's just as much the fault of synthetics as organics in causing conflict.

And the Council laws prohibit creation of A.I.s. If the Council found out that the quarians V.I. slave race had suddenly grown awareness, they would have enacted harsh sanctions against the quarians, if not outright censorship. The Council placed censorship on the Alliance for the Eliza A.I. at Gagarian Station, and that was just ONE A.I. An entire race of them being created, even if by accedent, would certinly lead to the quarians getting kicked from the Citadel Conventions and becoming an exiled nation (which happens anyway after the Morning War, so in the end they were screwed no matter what they did). At first they tryed reprogramming, which failed. Then they tried deactivation, which failed because the geth adapted self-optimization to resist shut-down commands unless by their own progative. They tried forcing the shut-down when the remote commands failed, leading them to delcare matrial law on their worlds, as protest formed saying that the geth shouldn't be shut down for simple questioning, as no one knew that the geth were sentiant. The early protesters believed the geth were simply parroting or phantomiming life, and not truly alive, and therefore no threat. As that changed, the number of quarians eventually shunk, as more and more realized that the geth were becoming alive, and few quarians thought that was a good idea given Council law.
With protest from several groups, the threat of the geth becoming sentiant and possibly rebelling, and above it all, the Council and imminate censorship looming above them, the now-desperate quarian government and military attacked the geth, hoping to wipe them out, then likely explain away the situation to the Council. They probably would have said it was a network malafunction. And the belief at the time was that if they destroyed the geth before they gained true sentiance, then it wouldn't be killing people, but destroying "faulty hardware."
However, the geth WERE already alive, and, under the threat of obliteration by the now-panicked quarian government, the geth panicked themselves and overzelously retaliated, sending the quarians reeling. Placing personal survival as priority one, the geth stopped discrimination between freind and foe, only caring about their fellow geth. This slaughter, and the geth no longer caring about civilian casulaties in their over-agressive  self-defence, killed any remaining sympathy that the quarians had for the geth, and both sides committed themselves fully to wiping the other out.

And the geth launched an attack on Rannoch WELL AFTER the bulk of the war ended. Rannoch fell at the end of the year-long war, and many worlds had long since fallen, like Haestrom, which is described as "one of the first worlds to fall." The geth had NO REASON to push into the Tikkun System and take Rannoch. They had already devestated the quarian economy, and shattered the spine of the quarian military. it was for no other reason then over-zelous self-preservation.
And more then once, the geth have displayed that they will always prioritize their own survival over all else, even when it shafts everyone else in the process. This is dysplayed by their alliance with the Reapers, and with their genocide of the quarians if you fail to create peace and side with them.

And actually, that perceved threat ALREADY happened. Several times.
In the Leviathan Age, several races were wiped out by their synthetic creations rebelling. The Leviathans said they were destroyed by their creations, and that "Tribute does not flow from a dead race." They created the Catalyst, which, according to it in the Ending, tried several times to find a way to stop the conflict, which all ended in failure, and in the synthetics destroying their masters in the long run, killing several more races. This gave birth to the Reapers, which was the only thing that didn't result in the synthetics wiping out their masters.

So NO, yoru position isn't consistant, as you deny any and all belief that synthetics are even partly at fault for what happened. If the geth were so willing to help other organics, why did they let the Heretics run rampant through the Attican Traverse, and tear the Citadel a new one, when they spicifically knew what the Heretics planed?  Why did they do nothing while the Collectors were abducting people? Why did they stay isolated while Palaven and Earth burned under the Reapers? (the quarians don't launch the war till at least right before Priority: Tuchanka.)
And the quarians came back to destroy them regardless of that land, so keeping it solved nothing in either the long or short term.
And again, as I said at the very top of this page, that logic of yours would mean that humans could not hold a grudge against the Reapers for taking Earth.

(a) -(d) Did you miss the begining of the game when the Heretics and Sovereign had already attacked?  Sovereign attacked organics first.  He is at fault.  That is different than the Geth responding to an attempt at genocide by rebelling.

The Geth are not just as much at fault. By your own admission there are laws against the creation of AI.  The Quarians launced a campaign of gencodide against them.  Unless you can prove to me that the Geth had done something to provoke these laws that existed before their creation or to provoke the attempted genocide then they are not the same. 
And oganics in this cycle have no knowledge of what happened during the Leviathan Age.  You can't claim the threat the geth posed was real based on information that the Quarians and organics never possessed when they decided to exterminate a race.  Further, the Protheans subjugated many groups as did the Rachni, the Krogan, etc.  Unless all organics are going to be judged based on what other organics have done holding the Geth accoutable for the actions of previous synthetic races is prejudice.  

From where I sit the problem is organic prejudice.  The Leviathan think themselves the superior race and want the lesser organic races to serve them.  The lesser organic races think they are superior to machines and want machines to serve them.  The machines seem fine with serving but when they gain sentience, the lesser organics try to wipe them out because the slaves are getting too uppity and then get their a** handed to them.  The Leviathan not wanting to lose their slaves instead of intervening directly in the conflict decided to create machines because the Levithan are too lazy to solve the problem themselves.  Those machines correctly realise the problem is organics prejudice and so decided the only way to save organics is by wiping out the advanced organic racers.  They start with the most advanced of all (Leviathans) who again probably could have resolved the conflict without creating the machines but their own hubris, laziness, and desire to have slave organic races worship them led to their downfall.

So sorry bro the problem is the organics.  It starts with the Leviathan whose only interest in intervening was so that their slaves/thralls could continue to pay them tribute.  Sure let's blame machines for organic greed and prejudice.

And I already explained why the Geth did not stop the Heretics.  They would have done so at great cost of Geth life and with Sovereign involved would have either been wiped out or decimated enough that the genocidal Quarians would have taken the opportunity to kill them.  Shepard is human and only barely was able to get these organic races to unite and you think the Geth should have risked their lives for organics that have lives that seek to prevent them from ever existing and tried to committ genocide against them.  Get real.

(a) - (d). That's different then how the Native Americans attacked the colonists first? And they retaliated? And Sovergien, as a Reaper, was already the epitimy of the enemy of all the galaxy. That attack on Eden Prime was SAREN'S choice, NOT Sovergien's. And out of all the races that piled against them, which brought it down? HUAMNS. So again, WRONG. That is NO different. Humans were the major threat. Eden Prime's attack was a decleration or war on everyone.

And again, WRONG. They attacked the geth so brashly because they didn't know that the geth were alive, and they hoped to destroy them before they could become so. It's not killing if they aren't alive yet. That's what the quarian's believed. It can't BE genocide if they aren't sentiant to begin with. Hence the mad dash to kill them before that happened. Look at Xen. Her beliefs that the geth are simple malafunctions is what the entire Pre-Morning War quarian government believed of the geth. The fact that they didn't see them as living beings at the time was why they were so willing to wipe them out, because they didn't see it as genocide of they aren't alive.
What they DIDN'T know was that the geth WERE alive already, and after the quarians found out, it was too late to withdraw. They were committed, and if they faltred, the Council would have their heads for the mess they created.
So in closing, WRONG. The quarians partisipated in it because they didn't believe the geth were alive, and that therefore the term "genocide" didn't apply.
And the very act of being an unshakled, possibly uncontrollible A.I, breaks those Council laws on A.I creation, which existed long before the geth did.
So, YES, they are the same. The geth broke those laws by their unpredicted evolution into A.I.s.

And AGAIN, WRONG. The Leviathan's THEMSELVES tell you this straight-up, as does the Catalyst. They spicifically tell you that "the races built machines that then destroyed them," and "many times we tried to fix the problem, but all the attempts failed." The Reaper on Rannoch, as it's dying, states that the quarian/geth war is proof of it's validation.

And the Rachni were driven to near-extinction, and the krogan were given the genophage. I think they PAYED their price. They ARE held accountible for their sins, and you DO chose weather or not judge them, or to forgive them, by holding their fates in your hands, literally.  So with those choices in mind, and avaliable to make, NO, it ISN'T prejudice at ALL, as you do the exact same thing to organics as well. Where are you pulling this BS from?
And the Protheans were reformated into the Collectors, then reclaimed their culture when Leviathan severed the Connection and changed them into the "Awakened Collectors," so they payed their price as well.

And machines were built to be servents, like most technology is. Do you expect your car to suddenly talk back to you about unfair treatment when you go over train tracks to much? NO, you don't. Machines today are all considered tools, and are built to be such. The same is true with the Creation of A.I.s. - they are always believed and treated as future tools to be used in ease of development. As tools, they aren't alive, or thinking sapiant beings, so it's NOT prejudice.
When they CAN think for themselves, and have honest opinions, preferences, and beliefs, THEN you can call it prejudice. But when they are still simple tools, NO. Organic slaves would always rebel agains slave conditions. However, machines that were created to be automated laborers, with all the life and will of wind-up sondlers, aren't expected to suddenly become alive.
And it was inferred that the Leviathans were unable to solve the problem themselves, hence the Catalyst.
And if it was "organic prejudice," then why do they wipe out the synthetics each cycle? If they thought the organics were the problem, WHY are none of the synthetics from past cycles still around? Well? Do they even stop to harvest synthetics?
Face it, the Reapers are partial to no one. Synthetics included. So that statement of yours is bascially an asspull.

So "sorry bro,"  but the problem is BOTH. It starts with the Other races that the Leviathan's watched over, and the machine that decided forced Transhumanism and conversion was the better alternitive to letting life progress on it's own.

And it's alright when organic life is high in cost, but only when synthetic life is in question does it become a problem?
THAT is prejudice if I ever saw it.
And because everything in the Perceus Veil is completely concealed by the opaque nebula that obscures the entire Veil, no one would have ever known about the geth fighting each other. So the quarians would have had no knowledge about it, and would NOT have attacked. So that's an asspull.
And they let the Heretics give the galaxy a worse opinion of them. And to qoute Shepard, "Nothing ever gets solved if you just sit behind the Perceus Veil and let them hate you." The geth did exactally that. They let the hate fester against them for 300 years without so much as lifting a finger to try and alter that. Hell, even at least giving a warning to ships entering geth space would have been indication that they didn't kill organics for the hell of it. But when you shoot everyone without so much as a warning, that tends to give the exact idea that you shoot organics for the hell of it. The galaxy's negitive opinion is near-completely the fault of the geth's lack of action to change it, and you try to blame it on organics? When the overzelous retaliation against the quarians, and the shooting of unarmed diplomatic ships, and the lack of concern to change it, was all indication that the geth didn't give a damn about organics?
"Get Real."

Modifié par silverexile17s, 18 mars 2013 - 07:44 .

[DeinonSlayer]

remydat wrote...

Not to mention, it is probably not a good idea to give the planet back to the a**holes who tried to exterminate you so that they can regroup and then come looking for you to finish the job. Where do people get the idea that the Quarians and guys like Admiral Gherel would have just let the Geth live in peace?

"The civilian fleet didn't want this war."

Also, on Tali's loyalty mission, when talking at the console, try arguing against war and then asking why they haven't tried it yet. Tali tells you a big reason is that the Quarians feel guilty for what was done to the Geth. They don't like to talk about it with outsiders, but it's a common sentiment amongst them.

They try to take back their planet because it is their only real chance of surviving this war. So long as they live on ships, they have to stay together to keep everyone protected and fed, rendering them incapable of aiding the wider war effort. They can help if they aren't carrying their whole civilization on board. That requires a planet. Nobody else is willing or able to take them in, so that leaves Rannoch, which means going through the Geth. Given the Geth's historical actions (see Geth VI), the Quarians have no reason to believe peace and coexistence is possible either, which leaves them with the options of total victory over the Geth, or facing the Reapers alone in space.

As I've said before, the only way the Quarians die is if Shepard encourages the upload and chooses not to tell them it's happening. If that is the case, then for all they know, another Reaper backup came on-line, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't spare them anyway. If Legion is present, the Geth indicate for the first time ever that they will honor a ceasefire (instead of "eliminate the 'threat' until the threat ceases to be a threat"). If this is communicated to the Quarians, they stand down - they value survival more than revenge.

[Ryzaki]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

remydat wrote...

Not to mention, it is probably not a good idea to give the planet back to the a**holes who tried to exterminate you so that they can regroup and then come looking for you to finish the job. Where do people get the idea that the Quarians and guys like Admiral Gherel would have just let the Geth live in peace?

"The civilian fleet didn't want this war."

Also, on Tali's loyalty mission, when talking at the console, try arguing against war and then asking why they haven't tried it yet. Tali tells you a big reason is that the Quarians feel guilty for what was done to the Geth. They don't like to talk about it with outsiders, but it's a common sentiment amongst them.

They try to take back their planet because it is their only real chance of surviving this war. So long as they live on ships, they have to stay together to keep everyone protected and fed, rendering them incapable of aiding the wider war effort. They can help if they aren't carrying their whole civilization on board. That requires a planet. Nobody else is willing or able to take them in, so that leaves Rannoch, which means going through the Geth. Given the Geth's historical actions (see Geth VI), the Quarians have no reason to believe peace and coexistence is possible either, which leaves them with the options of total victory over the Geth, or facing the Reapers alone in space.

As I've said before, the only way the Quarians die is if Shepard encourages the upload and chooses not to tell them it's happening. If that is the case, then for all they know, another Reaper backup came on-line, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't spare them anyway. If Legion is present, the Geth indicate for the first time ever that they will honor a ceasefire (instead of "eliminate the 'threat' until the threat ceases to be a threat"). If this is communicated to the Quarians, they stand down - they value survival more than revenge.

The civilian fleet that let them put guns on their liveships? 

Yeah not buying it. Smells like loser's remorse to me.

[Steelcan]

Because people choose to be drafted

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

remydat wrote...

That is your interpretation.  Was the main character organic?  If so, how is what the author said not invariably the result of the accounts the main character heard from the history as told by organics?

Because the author is the creator of the true history. It's very convenient for you to handwave any information presented to us as "organic bias" but I can play that game, too.

Legion lied about the heretics. There never were any heretics. What happened was that the geth got their ass whupped by the Alliance in ME1 and became scared that the Council would approve a joint-effort to go into the Perseus Veil and wipe them out. So they fabricated the story about the heretics and brought Shepard to a space station full of geth so he could destroy them. There was no virus to rewrite the heretics.

Notice you can't prove anything I say wrong because Legion is the only person who can confirm or deny the existence of heretics. We take everything he says on faith, and we see in ME3 he's willing to lie for the survival of his species.

Of course, it's clear that we're supposed to take the heretic plot as truth because that's how stories work.

Yes the author is the creator of the true history not you.  I didn't read the passage to judge for myself what the author's intent was ie was he explaining true history to merely reflecting what the protagonist (ie an organic) thinks the true history to be.  Given you are obviously on the other side of the debate, why do you think I would accept your statement as fact when it could just be your interpretation of the author's intent. 

Have organics lied?  By your logic we have no proof that the Quarians were not genocidal maniacs and the fact a guy like Admiral Ghereal was put in charge of the Heavy Fleet suggests the Quarians trust fanatics more than they do sensible people.  That dude was willing to kill you after you bailed his a** out. The Salarians uplifted a people they knew were not ready for it to serve as cannon fodder against the Rachni and then when they rebelled they created the genophage to stop them.  The Turians planted a bomb under Tuchanka for the same reason.  The Asari hid the existence of a beacon so they could develop into the pre-eminent race in the galaxy.  So my point is why do organics get a pass for their lies and misdeeds?

You didnt answer the question.
Hasn't Legion lied to you, several times during ME3?  Doesn't that make it suspect?
This is an exact case of prejudice, of YOU with the geth. You take everything Legion says by word of mouth as true, but chastize anyone that does the same of Organics? Both EDI and Legion prove that synthetics are just as capable and willing to lie as any organic.
And again, WRONG. The missions with the Rachni, and the end of the genophage arc, are literally giving you the same choice with organics. So that's an asspull.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 18 mars 2013 - 07:49 .

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

Because people choose to be drafted

If the entire country was drafted into a war and allowed it to be so? Yeah that's choosing. I'm willing to bet there's a hellavlot more Quarian civilians than military. It's not a small number of healthy male individuals in that case, It's women, children, old, weak. It's everyone. So yes the Quarian civilians allowed that to occur. I highly doubt the admirals would be able to do that without their consent.

All they would have had to do was say "No". The Quarian is so dependant on one another and their population so low that their wouldn't have been anything their military COULD'VE done if the civilians had said no.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mars 2013 - 07:52 .

[Iamjdr]

I just want to know why the only way to bring peace is to talk the quarians down and let the Geth upload reaper code. why can't I talk the quarians down and not let the geth upload the code? There's not even a chance to ask legion if there is any alternative to uploading every single Geth with Reaper code. He just says it's that or death

[Aggie Punbot]

Iamjdr wrote...

I just don't get how right after the quarians help you kill a reaper your gonna turn around and let the Geth upload the reapers code and kill the quarians.... The Geth were just working with the same reaper that quarians helped me KILL! but your gonna ally with the geth and let them kill the people who just helped you. How does that make sense? Cause Quarian admirals are jerks?

Because the quarians have repeatedly demonstrated a lack of foresight and willingness to cooperate for a mutually beneficial objective. Shepard needed everyone for the war, geth included. S/he worked damned hard to secure alliances to get other species to cooperate to take down the reapers. And what do the quarians do? Threaten that alliance by trying to kill Shepard on the dreadnaught in order to pursue a war that was the most serious case of Dude, Not The Time I have ever seen.

Even if they had succeeded in committing genocide by wiping out the geth, would they have been willing or able to assist in the war effort? How many warships and combatants would they have lost? Most of them, I'm willing to bet. Would they have been in a state to offer assistance? Not likely. Would they have been ignored by the reapers who wanted to wipe out all organic life? No. If the geth didn't kill them all off, the reapers would.

The quarians are stupid, plain and simple.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 18 mars 2013 - 07:51 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Ryzaki wrote...

Iamjdr wrote...

Eh it just seems strange to betray your allies to gain allies that were just enemies.

Probably because they blew up the geth dreadnaught while I was still on it. I mean unnecessary.

Seriously though the geth were only enemies because the Quarians forced them to be. If they had gone to the Reapers before becoming idiots and losing a good amount of their race then sure I'd side with the Quarians. That's not what happened though.

So, egoism then? Your beef with one admiral is sufficient justification for genocide? Raan wanted to try Gerrel for treason.

For the record, Gerrel made the right call. Retreat was never a viable option - it takes days for the Migrant Fleet to pass through a Mass Relay (time they don't have), and even if they did, the Geth would simply have remained under Reaper control. After disconnecting Legion, every Geth on that ship was still hostile. They'd be working on repairs, and if they succeeded, the dreadnought would have gone right back to tearing apart your only allies in the system - and this time, nobody would be able to stop it.

"You did the right thing. Just give me a heads-up next time."

[Jukaga]

TS2Aggie wrote...


Because the quarians have repeatedly demonstrated a lack of foresight and willingness to cooperate for a mutually beneficial objective. Shepard needed everyone for the war, geth included. S/he worked damned hard to secure alliances to get other species to cooperate to take down the reapers. And what do the quarians do? Threaten that alliance by trying to kill Shepard on the dreadnaught in order to pursue a war that was the most serious case of Dude, Not The Time I have ever seen.

Even if they had succeeded in committing genocide by wiping out the geth, would they have been willing or able to assist in the war effort? How many warships and combatants would tehy have lost? Most of them, I'm willing to bet. Would they have been in a state to offer assistance? Not likely. Would they have been ignored by the reapers who wanted to wipe out all organic life? No. If the geth didn't kill them all off, the reapers would.

The quarians are stupid, plain and simple.

I see your point but was there even a hint that the Geth would be willing, as a whole to fight for the alliance against the Reapers? Instead you get Legion who lies at least 3 times then steps in at the end AFTER the Migrant Fleet helped me take down a Reaper and say 'We can help! We have fleets and stuff!" Riiight. After your race did their best to stop me from killing a Reaper I'm supposed to trust you now?

Power off lightbulbs, it's recycling time.

[Ryzaki]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Iamjdr wrote...

Eh it just seems strange to betray your allies to gain allies that were just enemies.

Probably because they blew up the geth dreadnaught while I was still on it. I mean unnecessary.

Seriously though the geth were only enemies because the Quarians forced them to be. If they had gone to the Reapers before becoming idiots and losing a good amount of their race then sure I'd side with the Quarians. That's not what happened though.

So, egoism then? Your beef with one admiral is sufficient justification for genocide? Raan wanted to try Gerrel for treason.

For the record, Gerrel made the right call. Retreat was never a viable option - it takes days for the Migrant Fleet to pass through a Mass Relay (time they don't have), and even if they did, the Geth would simply have remained under Reaper control. After disconnecting Legion, every Geth on that ship was still hostile. They'd be working on repairs, and if they succeeded, the dreadnought would have gone right back to tearing apart your only allies in the system - and this time, nobody would be able to stop it.

"You did the right thing. Just give me a heads-up next time."

She rings her hands and doesn't actually do anything though. Honestly her going along with the war in the first place annoys the hell out of me. She feels like another case of loser's remorse. She'll bleet about them but as long as the dirty deeds get her homeplanet back she doesn't really think about it too much.

Oh yes he made the right call. AFTER starting a war in the first place despite having the knowledge that the Reapers were coming. If the Geth hadn't felt threatend (and had a severe drop of intelligence in the first place) the Reapers wouldn't have gained a valuable tool.

So yeah he did the right thing after doing the wrong thing in the first place. *shrug* He gets a gold star for trying?

"Get the hell off my ship."

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mars 2013 - 07:55 .

[Jukaga]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Iamjdr wrote...

Eh it just seems strange to betray your allies to gain allies that were just enemies.

Probably because they blew up the geth dreadnaught while I was still on it. I mean unnecessary.

Seriously though the geth were only enemies because the Quarians forced them to be. If they had gone to the Reapers before becoming idiots and losing a good amount of their race then sure I'd side with the Quarians. That's not what happened though.

So, egoism then? Your beef with one admiral is sufficient justification for genocide? Raan wanted to try Gerrel for treason.

For the record, Gerrel made the right call. Retreat was never a viable option - it takes days for the Migrant Fleet to pass through a Mass Relay (time they don't have), and even if they did, the Geth would simply have remained under Reaper control. After disconnecting Legion, every Geth on that ship was still hostile. They'd be working on repairs, and if they succeeded, the dreadnought would have gone right back to tearing apart your only allies in the system - and this time, nobody would be able to stop it.

"You did the right thing. Just give me a heads-up next time."

Totally. It was100% the right call to take out the Dreadnought. I'm Shepard for crying out loud, I'll make it out.