4712 réponses à ce sujet

[Phatose]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Phatose wrote...

You know, if the Geth were to link this thread and say "See? Here's what we mean. A significant portion of organics take the stance that organic life is always innately more valuable then synthetic life, and a portion even suggests that synthetic life has no value at all! Organic discussions show that they think we are completely disposable, and their actions further demonstrate that. What are we supposed to do?" I'd have to agree with them.

Guess Starkid was right after all. Huh.

Cute, but if the quarians had unanimously voted to join the Reapers in order to take back Rannoch, I'd destroy them with equal prejudice.

I do not think consensus works in the way you're suggesting.  Remember Legion on the heretic base?  He was giving you a count of processes and what they favor, and it was not 100%.

[CronoDragoon]

Ryzaki wrote...

Well I don't mind playing renegades so I don't mind.

True that. They were dumb and made a dumb decision. (and one I would've made in the same situation). They chose slavery over death. I would've done the same.

Fair enough. This gels with what I've been saying in this thread, that while I understand the geth's actions I can't sanction them.

[CronoDragoon]

Phatose wrote...

I do not think consensus works in the way you're suggesting.  Remember Legion on the heretic base?  He was giving you a count of processes and what they favor, and it was not 100%.

Each runtime is not an individual though, so it's more analogous to one individual having conflicting thoughts and having to make up their mind.

[AtreiyaN7]

I made peace between the geth and quarians, so lucky me! If I really had to choose...I'd pick the geth ultimately. The reason for this doesn't even relate to their combat superiority, it's because out of the two species/races, it's the geth who showed the most compassion and mercy despite repeated provocation by the quarians.

At the end of the Morning War, the geth could have wiped out the last of the quarians. But even after everything that happened, they had no desire to destroy the quarians. They would have preferred peace all along.

Yet in ME3, we find out that the quarians again decided to wage war without provocation and destroyed they geth sphere prior to events at Rannoch - killing an awful lot of innocent geth in the process as I understand it. Heck, Admiral Xen still wanted to enslave the geth again.

I consider the geth to be a lot more rational and a lot more stable as allies. And to me they've displayed the better parts of human nature time and again, even though they're synthetics. The irony of this just kills me.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 18 mars 2013 - 08:29 .

[silverexile17s]

Ryzaki wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
So the true geth aren in the end, no different, so by your own logic, they deserve to die too.

*facepalms* 

My logic had nothing to do with them using Reaper tech. My logic had to do with wiping them out for trying to kill all organics. I could care less what technology they used. Them slaughtering people and trying to bring the Reapers so they could harvest this cycle was my problem.

Which the true geth do while under Reaper control

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You expect her to put Gerrel on trial right in the middle of that mess? As I explained in the post you brushed off, they went to war precisely because the Reapers were invading. The Geth severed communications with them. They had no other viable choice.

Well, given that the path with the least amount of Shepard's interference leads ultimately to the demise of the entire fleet, I'd say that there were probably other more viable choices. Had they stayed out of the war altogether (go to salarian territory, the Reapers never touch it for some reason), the geth wouldn't have lost their anti-Reaper processes and likely have joined the war of their own accord; once they'd done so, they may have left the world peacefully and allowed the quarians to come back in.

Again, encouraging the upload and witholding that information from the fleet, versus saying "no" to the Geth representative and promptly being attacked by him/it. Shepard doesn't really do much in either scenario. "Path of least nterference" means nothing when Shepard is fully aware of the consequences of the choice.

So the Quarians were supposed to magically know the Salarians would be ignored, and the Salarians (levo, not dextro) would take them in? And then the Geth would spontaneously break three centuries of silent isolationism to give their world back with the dyson sphere next door? Sorry, this is just silly from beginning to end.

Well, that's why both non-peace options are objectively terrible. I'm just saying.

Also, the quarians don't need to land, they haven't done so for centuries. And if they're paying attention to the movement of the Reapers, they should be able to hide in those areas of the galaxy the Reapers haven't hit yet. As for the geth, they wouldn't have to know about the geth joining the war until the geth actually did; the quarians could start speaking to them then.

They have to land if they plan to be of any use at all to the wider war effort. A ship whose cargo hold is home to seven hundred civilians isn't going to be hauling troops, refugees, and war supplies any time soon. They don't have any space, and they need to stay within shuttle range of a Liveship every day just to keep everyone fed.

Also, when do the Geth ever give any indication that they'll join the fight alongside organics? Without the code upgrades, they're centered around their dyson sphere. After Legion returned to Geth space, the only people they were talking to pre-war was the Quarians, and the Geth severed communications with them before the Quarians attacked.

[Ryzaki]

silverexile17s wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
So the true geth aren in the end, no different, so by your own logic, they deserve to die too.

*facepalms* 

My logic had nothing to do with them using Reaper tech. My logic had to do with wiping them out for trying to kill all organics. I could care less what technology they used. Them slaughtering people and trying to bring the Reapers so they could harvest this cycle was my problem.

Which the true geth do while under Reaper control

Yeah...while under reaper control...

...which Shepard frees them from...

...Thus they no longer want to kill all organics...

Thus there's no reason to kill them.

Magical isn't it?

Only way the heretics stop wanting to kill organics is for Shep to brainwash them (which hits all my no buttons so I blew them up). The rest of the Geth? Shep simply frees them from Reaper control.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mars 2013 - 08:35 .

[Steelcan]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I made peace between the geth and quarians, so lucky me! If I really had to choose...I'd pick the geth ultimately. The reason for this doesn't even relate to their combat superiority, it's because out of the two species/races, it's the geth who showed the most compassion and mercy despite repeated provocation by the quarians.

At the end of the Morning War, the geth could have wiped out the last of the quarians. But even after everything that happened, they had no desire to destroy the quarians. They would have preferred peace all along.

Yet in ME3, we find out that the quarians again decided to wage war without provocation and destroyed they geth sphere prior to events at Rannoch - killing an awful lot of innocent geth in the process as I understand it. Heck, Admiral Xen still wanted to enslave the geth again.

I consider the geth to be a lot more rational and a lot more stable as allies. And to me they've displayed the better parts of human nature time and again, even though they're synthetics. The irony of this just kills me.

. I think you need an update on what "mercy" is.  Killing 99% of a population including women, children, elderly, non-combatants etc... But them not killing them completely off isn't mercy.  

Furthermore the quarians had no choice. Not was with attack the geth or wait for the Reapers to catch them in space.

[Iamjdr]

The Geth.... Stable allies? The same Geth that have a reaper chilling in there home base even before the quarians got there. How exactly were the Geth preparing for war with against the reapers with a reaper chilling on there planet?In there own base no less

Modifié par Iamjdr, 18 mars 2013 - 08:37 .

[Xilizhra]

They have to land if they plan to be of any use at all to the wider war effort. A ship whose cargo hold is home to seven hundred civilians isn't going to be hauling troops, refugees, and war supplies any time soon. They don't have any space, and they need to stay within shuttle range of a Liveship every day just to keep everyone fed.

Having them stay out of the war for the time being is a sacrifice worth making for the sake of not attacking an ally.

Also, when do the Geth ever give any indication that they'll join the fight alongside organics? Without the code upgrades, they're centered around their dyson sphere. After Legion returned to Geth space, the only people they were talking to pre-war was the Quarians, and the Geth severed communications with them before the Quarians attacked.

Legion mentions it in ME2. I'd likely need to make contact with the geth myself, of course, but I'm reasonably sure I could bring them in.

[Steelcan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah...while under reaper Control.

...which Shepard frees them from...

...Thus they no longer want to kill all organics...

Thus there's no reason to kill them.

Magical isn't it?

. For the second time they are under Control.  Which leads to your other point.  There is every reason to kill them without meta-gaming.

Modifié par Steelcan, 18 mars 2013 - 08:36 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

They have to land if they plan to be of any use at all to the wider war effort. A ship whose cargo hold is home to seven hundred civilians isn't going to be hauling troops, refugees, and war supplies any time soon. They don't have any space, and they need to stay within shuttle range of a Liveship every day just to keep everyone fed.

Having them stay out of the war for the time being is a sacrifice worth making for the sake of not attacking an ally.

. What did the geth do to make them allies?  They stayed out of the war then joined the Reapers.  Allies?

[CronoDragoon]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I made peace between the geth and quarians, so lucky me! If I really had to choose...I'd pick the geth ultimately. The reason for this doesn't even relate to their combat superiority, it's because out of the two species/races, it's the geth who showed the most compassion and mercy despite repeated provocation by the quarians.

At the end of the Morning War, the geth could have wiped out the last of the quarians. But even after everything that happened, they had no desire to destroy the quarians. They would have preferred peace all along.

Yet in ME3, we find out that the quarians again decided to wage war without provocation and destroyed they geth sphere prior to events at Rannoch - killing an awful lot of innocent geth in the process as I understand it. Heck, Admiral Xen still wanted to enslave the geth again.

I consider the geth to be a lot more rational and a lot more stable as allies. And to me they've displayed the better parts of human nature time and again, even though they're synthetics. The irony of this just kills me.

You can't really talk about "the quarians" though since  even among their leadership they are divided. Remember that quarians fought to protect the geth from being destroyed in the Morning War and gave their lives in the process.

It's most accurate to damn the quarians for horrible leadership.

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah...while under reaper Control.

...which Shepard frees them from...

...Thus they no longer want to kill all organics...

Thus there's no reason to kill them.

Magical isn't it?

. For the second time.  Which leads to your other point.  There is every reason to kill them without meta-gaming.

You forget the part where half of Rannoch is dedicated to getting them *out* of Reaper control? (whether to defeat them or ally you *have* to end the Reaper's control before you can do anything). Or that they only go under said Reaper control *after* the Quarian's unprovoked attack?

People need to stop using metagaming as a "I win!" technique. Especially when there's plenty of reasons in the narrative given for both stances.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mars 2013 - 08:37 .

[Steelcan]

Ryzaki wrote...

You forget the part where half of Rannoch is dedicated to getting them *out* of Reaper control? (whether to defeat them or ally you *have* to end the Reaper's control before you can do anything). Or that they only go under said Reaper control *after* the Quarian's unprovoked attack?

. The part where you use Reaper software to "free" them.  

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You forget the part where half of Rannoch is dedicated to getting them *out* of Reaper control? (whether to defeat them or ally you *have* to end the Reaper's control before you can do anything). Or that they only go under said Reaper control *after* the Quarian's unprovoked attack?

. The part where you use Reaper software to "free" them.  

The part where you use Reaper software to stop the Reapers, Thank you EDI.

The part where you use Reaper software to destroy the Collectors. Thanks again EDI.

Part where you use Reaper software to save lives. Again thanks EDI. Couldn't have done those drops in Reaper territory without ya.

Part where you use Reaper software to sneak past the Reapers! Thanks EDI. You rock.

Reaper software =!= bad.

It's how you use it. Giving the Geth intelligence so they can help you fight the Reapers is hardly something negative.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mars 2013 - 08:40 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...WRONG. Humans and members of humanity  have:
(a) Killed the Reaper vanguard, Sovergien.
( Destroyed the Human Proto-Reaper.
© Devestated both of their proxy armies, the geth Heretics and Collectors.
(d) Destroyed at least several Reaper objects, such as Object Rho (destroyed by Shepard), and the Arca Monolith (desteroyed by Jack Harper, AKA, The Illusive Man).
Humans did more damage to the Reaper's plans then anyone else in the cycle did, even BEFORE they were chosen to be the next harvested race. They disrupted their cycle more then any other race mamaged to do, and personally antagonized the Reapers with their resistance, and with the actions of Shepard, and of Cerberus trying to find a way to control them. So NO, I DON'T see the difference.
And the term "it takes two to tango" is quite prevelant to this. You can't just chalk this all up to organic irrationalaty, when synthetic overrationalaty has caused it just as much. Like how the geth completely isolate themselves because of how one race reacted to them 300 years ago, and let hate fester to the point that no one would listen to them anyway. If they hadn't shot down unarmed diplomat ships without so much as even a hail (which is explisitly stated as happening in Mass Effect: Revelation, a book that details the back-stories of David Anderson, Kahlee Sanders, and Saren Arterius, and goes into detail about the Alliance and batarians creating A.I tech, and the mission that led to Anderson being kicked from Spectre candidacy).
The bottom line here is that it's just as much the fault of synthetics as organics in causing conflict.

And the Council laws prohibit creation of A.I.s. If the Council found out that the quarians V.I. slave race had suddenly grown awareness, they would have enacted harsh sanctions against the quarians, if not outright censorship. The Council placed censorship on the Alliance for the Eliza A.I. at Gagarian Station, and that was just ONE A.I. An entire race of them being created, even if by accedent, would certinly lead to the quarians getting kicked from the Citadel Conventions and becoming an exiled nation (which happens anyway after the Morning War, so in the end they were screwed no matter what they did). At first they tryed reprogramming, which failed. Then they tried deactivation, which failed because the geth adapted self-optimization to resist shut-down commands unless by their own progative. They tried forcing the shut-down when the remote commands failed, leading them to delcare matrial law on their worlds, as protest formed saying that the geth shouldn't be shut down for simple questioning, as no one knew that the geth were sentiant. The early protesters believed the geth were simply parroting or phantomiming life, and not truly alive, and therefore no threat. As that changed, the number of quarians eventually shunk, as more and more realized that the geth were becoming alive, and few quarians thought that was a good idea given Council law.
With protest from several groups, the threat of the geth becoming sentiant and possibly rebelling, and above it all, the Council and imminate censorship looming above them, the now-desperate quarian government and military attacked the geth, hoping to wipe them out, then likely explain away the situation to the Council. They probably would have said it was a network malafunction. And the belief at the time was that if they destroyed the geth before they gained true sentiance, then it wouldn't be killing people, but destroying "faulty hardware."
However, the geth WERE already alive, and, under the threat of obliteration by the now-panicked quarian government, the geth panicked themselves and overzelously retaliated, sending the quarians reeling. Placing personal survival as priority one, the geth stopped discrimination between freind and foe, only caring about their fellow geth. This slaughter, and the geth no longer caring about civilian casulaties in their over-agressive  self-defence, killed any remaining sympathy that the quarians had for the geth, and both sides committed themselves fully to wiping the other out.

And the geth launched an attack on Rannoch WELL AFTER the bulk of the war ended. Rannoch fell at the end of the year-long war, and many worlds had long since fallen, like Haestrom, which is described as "one of the first worlds to fall." The geth had NO REASON to push into the Tikkun System and take Rannoch. They had already devestated the quarian economy, and shattered the spine of the quarian military. it was for no other reason then over-zelous self-preservation.
And more then once, the geth have displayed that they will always prioritize their own survival over all else, even when it shafts everyone else in the process. This is dysplayed by their alliance with the Reapers, and with their genocide of the quarians if you fail to create peace and side with them.

And actually, that perceved threat ALREADY happened. Several times.
In the Leviathan Age, several races were wiped out by their synthetic creations rebelling. The Leviathans said they were destroyed by their creations, and that "Tribute does not flow from a dead race." They created the Catalyst, which, according to it in the Ending, tried several times to find a way to stop the conflict, which all ended in failure, and in the synthetics destroying their masters in the long run, killing several more races. This gave birth to the Reapers, which was the only thing that didn't result in the synthetics wiping out their masters.

So NO, yoru position isn't consistant, as you deny any and all belief that synthetics are even partly at fault for what happened. If the geth were so willing to help other organics, why did they let the Heretics run rampant through the Attican Traverse, and tear the Citadel a new one, when they spicifically knew what the Heretics planed?  Why did they do nothing while the Collectors were abducting people? Why did they stay isolated while Palaven and Earth burned under the Reapers? (the quarians don't launch the war till at least right before Priority: Tuchanka.)
And the quarians came back to destroy them regardless of that land, so keeping it solved nothing in either the long or short term.
And again, as I said at the very top of this page, that logic of yours would mean that humans could not hold a grudge against the Reapers for taking Earth.

(a) -(d) Did you miss the begining of the game when the Heretics and Sovereign had already attacked?  Sovereign attacked organics first.  He is at fault.  That is different than the Geth responding to an attempt at genocide by rebelling.

The Geth are not just as much at fault. By your own admission there are laws against the creation of AI.  The Quarians launced a campaign of gencodide against them.  Unless you can prove to me that the Geth had done something to provoke these laws that existed before their creation or to provoke the attempted genocide then they are not the same. 
And oganics in this cycle have no knowledge of what happened during the Leviathan Age.  You can't claim the threat the geth posed was real based on information that the Quarians and organics never possessed when they decided to exterminate a race.  Further, the Protheans subjugated many groups as did the Rachni, the Krogan, etc.  Unless all organics are going to be judged based on what other organics have done holding the Geth accoutable for the actions of previous synthetic races is prejudice.  

From where I sit the problem is organic prejudice.  The Leviathan think themselves the superior race and want the lesser organic races to serve them.  The lesser organic races think they are superior to machines and want machines to serve them.  The machines seem fine with serving but when they gain sentience, the lesser organics try to wipe them out because the slaves are getting too uppity and then get their a** handed to them.  The Leviathan not wanting to lose their slaves instead of intervening directly in the conflict decided to create machines because the Levithan are too lazy to solve the problem themselves.  Those machines correctly realise the problem is organics prejudice and so decided the only way to save organics is by wiping out the advanced organic racers.  They start with the most advanced of all (Leviathans) who again probably could have resolved the conflict without creating the machines but their own hubris, laziness, and desire to have slave organic races worship them led to their downfall.

So sorry bro the problem is the organics.  It starts with the Leviathan whose only interest in intervening was so that their slaves/thralls could continue to pay them tribute.  Sure let's blame machines for organic greed and prejudice.

And I already explained why the Geth did not stop the Heretics.  They would have done so at great cost of Geth life and with Sovereign involved would have either been wiped out or decimated enough that the genocidal Quarians would have taken the opportunity to kill them.  Shepard is human and only barely was able to get these organic races to unite and you think the Geth should have risked their lives for organics that have lives that seek to prevent them from ever existing and tried to committ genocide against them.  Get real.

(a) - (d). That's different then how the Native Americans attacked the colonists first? And they retaliated? And Sovergien, as a Reaper, was already the epitimy of the enemy of all the galaxy. That attack on Eden Prime was SAREN'S choice, NOT Sovergien's. And out of all the races that piled against them, which brought it down? HUAMNS. So again, WRONG. That is NO different. Humans were the major threat. Eden Prime's attack was a decleration or war on everyone.

And again, WRONG. They attacked the geth so brashly because they didn't know that the geth were alive, and they hoped to destroy them before they could become so. It's not killing if they aren't alive yet. That's what the quarian's believed. It can't BE genocide if they aren't sentiant to begin with. Hence the mad dash to kill them before that happened. Look at Xen. Her beliefs that the geth are simple malafunctions is what the entire Pre-Morning War quarian government believed of the geth. The fact that they didn't see them as living beings at the time was why they were so willing to wipe them out, because they didn't see it as genocide of they aren't alive.
What they DIDN'T know was that the geth WERE alive already, and after the quarians found out, it was too late to withdraw. They were committed, and if they faltred, the Council would have their heads for the mess they created.
So in closing, WRONG. The quarians partisipated in it because they didn't believe the geth were alive, and that therefore the term "genocide" didn't apply.
And the very act of being an unshakled, possibly uncontrollible A.I, breaks those Council laws on A.I creation, which existed long before the geth did.
So, YES, they are the same. The geth broke those laws by their unpredicted evolution into A.I.s.

And AGAIN, WRONG. The Leviathan's THEMSELVES tell you this straight-up, as does the Catalyst. They spicifically tell you that "the races built machines that then destroyed them," and "many times we tried to fix the problem, but all the attempts failed." The Reaper on Rannoch, as it's dying, states that the quarian/geth war is proof of it's validation.

And the Rachni were driven to near-extinction, and the krogan were given the genophage. I think they PAYED their price. They ARE held accountible for their sins, and you DO chose weather or not judge them, or to forgive them, by holding their fates in your hands, literally.  So with those choices in mind, and avaliable to make, NO, it ISN'T prejudice at ALL, as you do the exact same thing to organics as well. Where are you pulling this BS from?
And the Protheans were reformated into the Collectors, then reclaimed their culture when Leviathan severed the Connection and changed them into the "Awakened Collectors," so they payed their price as well.

And machines were built to be servents, like most technology is. Do you expect your car to suddenly talk back to you about unfair treatment when you go over train tracks to much? NO, you don't. Machines today are all considered tools, and are built to be such. The same is true with the Creation of A.I.s. - they are always believed and treated as future tools to be used in ease of development. As tools, they aren't alive, or thinking sapiant beings, so it's NOT prejudice.
When they CAN think for themselves, and have honest opinions, preferences, and beliefs, THEN you can call it prejudice. But when they are still simple tools, NO. Organic slaves would always rebel agains slave conditions. However, machines that were created to be automated laborers, with all the life and will of wind-up sondlers, aren't expected to suddenly become alive.
And it was inferred that the Leviathans were unable to solve the problem themselves, hence the Catalyst.
And if it was "organic prejudice," then why do they wipe out the synthetics each cycle? If they thought the organics were the problem, WHY are none of the synthetics from past cycles still around? Well? Do they even stop to harvest synthetics?
Face it, the Reapers are partial to no one. Synthetics included. So that statement of yours is bascially an asspull.

So "sorry bro,"  but the problem is BOTH. It starts with the Other races that the Leviathan's watched over, and the machine that decided forced Transhumanism and conversion was the better alternitive to letting life progress on it's own.

And it's alright when organic life is high in cost, but only when synthetic life is in question does it become a problem?
THAT is prejudice if I ever saw it.
And because everything in the Perceus Veil is completely concealed by the opaque nebula that obscures the entire Veil, no one would have ever known about the geth fighting each other. So the quarians would have had no knowledge about it, and would NOT have attacked. So that's an asspull.
And they let the Heretics give the galaxy a worse opinion of them. And to qoute Shepard, "Nothing ever gets solved if you just sit behind the Perceus Veil and let them hate you." The geth did exactally that. They let the hate fester against them for 300 years without so much as lifting a finger to try and alter that. Hell, even at least giving a warning to ships entering geth space would have been indication that they didn't kill organics for the hell of it. But when you shoot everyone without so much as a warning, that tends to give the exact idea that you shoot organics for the hell of it. The galaxy's negitive opinion is near-completely the fault of the geth's lack of action to change it, and you try to blame it on organics? When the overzelous retaliation against the quarians, and the shooting of unarmed diplomatic ships, and the lack of concern to change it, was all indication that the geth didn't give a damn about organics?
"Get Real."

Did you miss the part where Saren was indoctrinated.  He was working to advance Sovereign mission dude.  In any event, the humans did not attack Sovereign or Saren so their attack on humans was unprovoked.  So sorry it is not the same.

And I could give two sh*ts about the Council's laws.  The law itself is part of the problem.  The Geth broke no laws. They did not create themselves.  The Quarians broke a law and then decided the solution was to exterminate living machines and any quarians who disagreed with them.  They murdered their own people who believed the Geth were alive instead of talking to them.

Leviathan tells us the races built machines that destroyed them.  The amusing thing is your analogy of a car or tool talking back to you inherently proves that the problem is organics.  Because it is a machine, organics refuse to accept it could be anything more than the tool they created it to be.  So they seek to destroy it and in the end are destroyed themselves.  The further amusing part is that Leviathan sees this but because it is prejudiced against the lesser organic beings thinks it is immune from making the same mistake and then creates a machine that is even worse than the machines the lesser organics created.  The story is a classic example of organic prejudice and hubris leading to their downfall.  The machines are not the problem.  Their stupid creators are.

So yeah if my car talks back to me, my first inclination will be to listen not kill it.  The obvious theme of the story is organics ie humans fear what is different from them and in doing so sow the seeds to their own destruction.  The only reason people seem to ignore this fact is because machines have replaced slaves or any other race that at one time was considered by the majority to be sub-human and so they can't see beyond the sci fi nature of the story.

It was still Saren's will. He may have been directed by Sovergien to find the Conduit, but Saren had creative freedom in how he did it. Hence, Eden Prime = Saren's choice. So AGAIN, it IS the same.

And technically, the geth did create themselves, by self-modifying their programming, which created the networking consensus that led to their sentiance. And since they were created as V.I.s (think Avina with an actual body), the quarians did nothing wrong in the actual act of creating the geth.
And AGAIN, the geth weren't considered living. At the time, because they were unaware of their sentiance, killing the geth was no more "genocide" then killing those mindless LOKI mechs.
And WRONG. The quarians took them captive. They are an insular sociaty, remember? They tend to take prisoners rather the kill back then. And that was one scene.

And again, NO IT DOESN'T. They are built as tools. The SYNTHETICS are the ones that change. They are not made to be sentiant, so when they start talking, it can be atributed to phantomiming life, but not actually being alive.
Need I remind you that synthetics ALSO destroy what they do not understand too (organic emotions and their responces), because they are "illogical" to them. Just like organics do.
So STOP your preaching about synthetic purity. They are BOTH in the same boat of guilt here. Nither is more just the the other, and your strict belief on so is prejudice no matter how you slice it.

[Steelcan]

Ryzaki wrote...

The part where you use Reaper software to stop the Reapers, Thank you EDI.

The part where you use Reaper software to destroy the Collectors. Thanks again EDI.

Part where you use Reaper software to save lives. Again thanks EDI.

Part where you use Reaper software to sneak past the Reapers! Thanks EDI. You rock.

Reaper software =!= bad.

. Clearly you forgot about the IFF.  You know when your crew got abducted.

[Ryzaki]

Trim quotes guys? Please? *puppy eyes*

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The part where you use Reaper software to stop the Reapers, Thank you EDI.

The part where you use Reaper software to destroy the Collectors. Thanks again EDI.

Part where you use Reaper software to save lives. Again thanks EDI.

Part where you use Reaper software to sneak past the Reapers! Thanks EDI. You rock.

Reaper software =!= bad.

. Clearly you forgot about the IFF.  You know when your crew got abducted.

Because they didn't scrub it. (And via my edit. It's all about HOW it's used.)

Plus without IFF Shep wouldn't have been able to do many things in ME3 (like being undetected in Reaper controlled territories) or even get TO the collector base.

Reaper tech is not negative on it's own. Circumstances and usage plays a large part.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mars 2013 - 08:43 .

[CronoDragoon]

Steelcan wrote...
 Clearly you forgot about the IFF.  You know when your crew got abducted.

I can set ambushes along roads, too. Doesn't make roads bad.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 18 mars 2013 - 08:43 .

[Iamjdr]

I used a bomb to destroy the collectorship. the reaper iff got use thru the omega 4 relay yes but not before it planted a virus on my ship and got my entire crew abducted. Reaper software might not be in itself bad but that sure as hell don't make it good or worth the risk.

[silverexile17s]

Ryzaki wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
So the true geth aren in the end, no different, so by your own logic, they deserve to die too.

*facepalms* 

My logic had nothing to do with them using Reaper tech. My logic had to do with wiping them out for trying to kill all organics. I could care less what technology they used. Them slaughtering people and trying to bring the Reapers so they could harvest this cycle was my problem.

Which the true geth do while under Reaper control

Yeah...while under reaper control...

...which Shepard frees them from...

...Thus they no longer want to kill all organics...

Thus there's no reason to kill them.

Magical isn't it?

Only way the heretics stop wanting to kill organics is for Shep to brainwash them (which hits all my no buttons so I blew them up). The rest of the Geth? Shep simply frees them from Reaper control.

And yet, the geth kill all quarians if you stand back and let them take the Reaper code.

Isn't THAT "magical" too?

Face it. If not for Shepard being there, then if it came right down to it, Legion would have snapped Tali's neck and uploaded the code itself to save the geth. Saving them would have taken priority over friendship. As proven if Shepard refuses to let the upload commence.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 18 mars 2013 - 08:43 .

[Steelcan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Because they didn't scrub it. (And via my edit. It's all about HOW it's used.)

Plus without IFF Shep wouldn't have been able to do many things in ME3 (like being undetected in Reaper controleld territories) or even get TO the collector base.

. "Undetected?"  You scan twice and six Reapers are on your ass.

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

They have to land if they plan to be of any use at all to the wider war effort. A ship whose cargo hold is home to seven hundred civilians isn't going to be hauling troops, refugees, and war supplies any time soon. They don't have any space, and they need to stay within shuttle range of a Liveship every day just to keep everyone fed.

Having them stay out of the war for the time being is a sacrifice worth making for the sake of not attacking an ally.

Also, when do the Geth ever give any indication that they'll join the fight alongside organics? Without the code upgrades, they're centered around their dyson sphere. After Legion returned to Geth space, the only people they were talking to pre-war was the Quarians, and the Geth severed communications with them before the Quarians attacked.

Legion mentions it in ME2. I'd likely need to make contact with the geth myself, of course, but I'm reasonably sure I could bring them in.

So, shuffle seventeen million people off into the corner with their ships idle in the hopes that the Reapers won't find them and kill them during the time it takes for you to petition the Geth and wait for an upper-left blue to pop up which will make them break three centuries of isolationism and leave their dyson sphere behind (effectively weakening the intelligence of ships which do so) in order to assist the organics they've been so suspicious of that they killed any spotted entering their territory on sight and didn't bother to even warn us when the heretics were attacking.

I should reiterate that you're not the Reaper king yet in this part of the timeline.