4712 réponses à ce sujet

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

tevix wrote...

What the heck, I'll throw in a random tidbit just for fun.

1) The quarians tried to exterminate the geth. The geth in turn attempted (and VERY nearly succeded) genocide against the quarians.

If you succeed in stopping someone from harming you but then continue to inflict wanton harm on them, you are now them. You are a hypocrite. The geth became hypocrites. The quarians at least are up front about everything and hold no double standard.

2) The geth operate by consensus. The "heretics" exist because the "geth" allowed those runtimes that were arguing to side with the reapers leave. They did not have to let them go to kill others, but they did. Thus the geth as a whole are responsible for killing harmless diplomats.

3) The geth deemed galactic genocide just to guarantee their survival was ok. That makes them the enemy. That also proves Legion is not an entity of it's word. By using the reaper code to upgrade his race he is backtracking on his own beliefs.

1. Self defense, aggressive self defense to stop them from going extinct.
2. That proves that the Geth are even more open minded, they let others have opinions unless they are logically stupid and evil.
3. Shepard uses the Crucible. Did Shepard become a Reaper? Did he betray his friends? Did he ruin the galaxy? He only ruins it if he doesn't obey the Space Kid. Weapons are weapons, they aren't labelled "good guy team and bad guy team." The Reaper code is a weapon. It's like putting a Ferrari into Skyrim. It's a win!

I await your next argument!

[justafan]

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

Of course the Quarians can win against false AI.

You could beat up your computer...however, if your computer gets true AI awareness, it will break you down on an emotion level by posting your naked pictures on the internet. I'm kidding, but you never know .

Lets face it, the only reason why anyone would pick Quarian is if Tali is Shepard's waifu. In an actual military scenario, the Geth will be more versatile. Simple.

Not necessarily.  Let's see the Geth evacuate a colony or transport food without any lifesupport.  Quarians are unrivaled in logistical capabilities.

[Only-Twin]

Umm when you start a war that the other side did not want to cover up your programming fu*k up then it is your fault. How much times does it need to be said. The Geth did nothing wrong. They were designed to serve and basically became too good at their job because the Quarians fu**ed up. Let me repeat. THE QUARIANS FU**ED UP. So to correct their mistake the QUARIANS TRIED TO KILL THE GETH.

The Geth BEGGED THE QUARIANS TO EXPLAIN WHY THEY HAD TO BE KILLED. The Geth SURRENDERED INSTEAD OF LETTING QUARIANS SYMPATHETIC TO THEIR CAUSE BE KILLED. They were killed by militant Quarians anyway. Finally the Geth decided to defend themselves and these Geth with no understanding of the rules of war attacked.

So who is at fault? The answer is obvious. The stupid Quarians, end of story.

Dude, seriously, take a chill pill. Wow.

[tevix]

@Zecollector

1) No amount of self defense warrants a population reduced from billions to millions. Killing 99% of a population that size negates the self defense argument.

2) All that proves is the geth are irresponsible. Letting part of your population go to take part in genocide is unacceptable. If you know your next door neighbor is going to go on a killing spree, would you let him/her do it just because you're "open minded?" I hope not, because that would make you an accessory, or even an accomplice.

3) It's not about whether a weapon is good or bad, it's about principle. In ME2 Legion repeatedly makes it painfully clear that he and the "true" geth will not accept handouts to achieve their future, least of all the reapers. Using the reaper code as what amounts to a mario warp whistle to skip massive portions of their evolution goes against everything it said it believed. It can no longer be trusted. All it has proved is that in a pinch it will go against everything it said.

And again, by accepting reaper help the Geth would become tools to be used in genocide against the galaxy. They said "Yeah, sure, we'll kill everyone! Just give us a hand here."

I say "End of line. You help the reapers, you become my enemy."

[MACharlie1]

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

tevix wrote...

What the heck, I'll throw in a random tidbit just for fun.

1) The quarians tried to exterminate the geth. The geth in turn attempted (and VERY nearly succeded) genocide against the quarians.

If you succeed in stopping someone from harming you but then continue to inflict wanton harm on them, you are now them. You are a hypocrite. The geth became hypocrites. The quarians at least are up front about everything and hold no double standard.

2) The geth operate by consensus. The "heretics" exist because the "geth" allowed those runtimes that were arguing to side with the reapers leave. They did not have to let them go to kill others, but they did. Thus the geth as a whole are responsible for killing harmless diplomats.

3) The geth deemed galactic genocide just to guarantee their survival was ok. That makes them the enemy. That also proves Legion is not an entity of it's word. By using the reaper code to upgrade his race he is backtracking on his own beliefs.

1. Self defense, aggressive self defense to stop them from going extinct.
2. That proves that the Geth are even more open minded, they let others have opinions unless they are logically stupid and evil.
3. Shepard uses the Crucible. Did Shepard become a Reaper? Did he betray his friends? Did he ruin the galaxy? He only ruins it if he doesn't obey the Space Kid. Weapons are weapons, they aren't labelled "good guy team and bad guy team." The Reaper code is a weapon. It's like putting a Ferrari into Skyrim. It's a win!

I await your next argument!

1. The self-defense is not equal. If the Geth were truly logical, they would only use self-defence in a way that was equal that would end the threat. It's sort of like some state laws (like NY) where you can't use the justification of self-defence after the end of a threat. You hit someone in the face whose take a swing at you doesn't mean you go ahead and beat the **** out of them. To me, a machine would be more concious of this sort of mind set. Rage, aggression doesn't hold any meaning therefore we cannot hold them to that standard. We have to hold them to a higher more cold standard.


2. No comment. I'm not really part of this discussion.


3. I believe what he was trying to state was not so much of using Reaper technology is the problem. The problem was that Legion, in ME2, stated that the Geth wished to forge their own future. By Legions own logic, he should have said screw you to the Reaper code and the Geth should have reached that point on their own. This harkens back to the Krogan - they were given space travel before they were ready when they were given the technology by the Salarians. They have to learn and evolve and move toward that single point on their own without just being given it. It cheapens the result and weakens the Geth as a whole.

[justafan]

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

tevix wrote...

What the heck, I'll throw in a random tidbit just for fun.

1) The quarians tried to exterminate the geth. The geth in turn attempted (and VERY nearly succeded) genocide against the quarians.

If you succeed in stopping someone from harming you but then continue to inflict wanton harm on them, you are now them. You are a hypocrite. The geth became hypocrites. The quarians at least are up front about everything and hold no double standard.

2) The geth operate by consensus. The "heretics" exist because the "geth" allowed those runtimes that were arguing to side with the reapers leave. They did not have to let them go to kill others, but they did. Thus the geth as a whole are responsible for killing harmless diplomats.

3) The geth deemed galactic genocide just to guarantee their survival was ok. That makes them the enemy. That also proves Legion is not an entity of it's word. By using the reaper code to upgrade his race he is backtracking on his own beliefs.

1. Self defense, aggressive self defense to stop them from going extinct.
2. That proves that the Geth are even more open minded, they let others have opinions unless they are logically stupid and evil.
3. Shepard uses the Crucible. Did Shepard become a Reaper? Did he betray his friends? Did he ruin the galaxy? He only ruins it if he doesn't obey the Space Kid. Weapons are weapons, they aren't labelled "good guy team and bad guy team." The Reaper code is a weapon. It's like putting a Ferrari into Skyrim. It's a win!

I await your next argument!

1.  By that logic, every war should be one of Genocide.  X group attacked us, hence the only way to be permanently safe from them is to destroy that group down to the last man, woman, and child.

2.  "They let others have opinions unless they are logically stupid and evil"  What is more evil than siding with the reapers?

3.  I don't really see this as much of an issue, but there is a difference between the crucible and the Reaper code.  For one, no organic ever said they were against stealing reaper tech for their own advancement, only Geth.  And two, the reaper code is a total unknown as well as uneccessary, as the Quarians are open to peace before Legion uploads.

[Da Don Giovanni]

justafan wrote...

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

Of course the Quarians can win against false AI.

You could beat up your computer...however, if your computer gets true AI awareness, it will break you down on an emotion level by posting your naked pictures on the internet. I'm kidding, but you never know .

Lets face it, the only reason why anyone would pick Quarian is if Tali is Shepard's waifu. In an actual military scenario, the Geth will be more versatile. Simple.

Not necessarily.  Let's see the Geth evacuate a colony or transport food without any lifesupport.  Quarians are unrivaled in logistical capabilities.

A Geth Prime would destroy a Quarian any day of the weak. An Atlas mech took out a whole squad of Military Trained Quarians on Freedom's Progress. A Geth Prime is even more of a threat than an atlas. Not to mention the Geth ALLOWED the Quarians to live.

Geth > Quarians.

Simple physics. Survival of the Fittest.

[remydat]

CronoDragoon wrote...

remydat wrote...

That is what I said back on page 22.  You guys acted like this was a statement from the writer in his capacity as all seeing eye.  It is not.  All seeing eye doesn't leave out the fact that the Quarians attacked first.  

That the quarians attacked first is common knowledge and acknowledged by both sides. A full account of the Morning War would completely derail the book, and so he gives you a portion of what happened. But what is said happened, happened. That's why it's the all-seeing eye. He's giving you backstory.

In fact, the entire friggin book is backstory. The books are meant to be supplemental to the games, and in the games you are told numerous times by quarians that they started the war.

No one asked for a full account so please stop with that.  I suggested the passage was probably told from the organic perspective.  You guys claimed it wasn't.  So I will ask again, what in the passage is favorable too or tells the Geth side of the story?  Is the Geth side of the story reflected anywhere in the book?

A simple yes or no to those questions is all I require.

[remydat]

Only-Twin wrote...

Umm when you start a war that the other side did not want to cover up your programming fu*k up then it is your fault. How much times does it need to be said. The Geth did nothing wrong. They were designed to serve and basically became too good at their job because the Quarians fu**ed up. Let me repeat. THE QUARIANS FU**ED UP. So to correct their mistake the QUARIANS TRIED TO KILL THE GETH.

The Geth BEGGED THE QUARIANS TO EXPLAIN WHY THEY HAD TO BE KILLED. The Geth SURRENDERED INSTEAD OF LETTING QUARIANS SYMPATHETIC TO THEIR CAUSE BE KILLED. They were killed by militant Quarians anyway. Finally the Geth decided to defend themselves and these Geth with no understanding of the rules of war attacked.

So who is at fault? The answer is obvious. The stupid Quarians, end of story.

Dude, seriously, take a chill pill. Wow.

Dude it is the internet.  I am not really yelling.  It is done for dramatic effect and emphasis.

[CronoDragoon]

remydat wrote...

No one asked for a full account so please stop with that.  I suggested the passage was probably told from the organic perspective.  You guys claimed it wasn't.  So I will ask again, what in the passage is favorable too or tells the Geth side of the story?  Is the Geth side of the story reflected anywhere in the book?

A simple yes or no to those questions is all I require.

I claimed it wasn't told with organic bias, which is not the same thing as being told from an organic perspective. What you are told in the books is true, so what's your point? It matches with the eventual story told by Legion, so what is the issue?

[tevix]

@Remydat

*Narrative*

"The geth shot down diplomatic vessels and ignored hails of peace".

That *IS* the geth side of the story. You want there to be a passage that paints the geth as harmless bunnies but there ISN'T one. Drew wrote what he did beceause he wanted to know the specifics of the geth's atrocities.

We already know the ones of the quarians, right from ME1.

Just because the geth's side of the story isn't what you like or want to hear, doesn't make it non-canon.

[DeinonSlayer]

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

justafan wrote...

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

Of course the Quarians can win against false AI.

You could beat up your computer...however, if your computer gets true AI awareness, it will break you down on an emotion level by posting your naked pictures on the internet. I'm kidding, but you never know .

Lets face it, the only reason why anyone would pick Quarian is if Tali is Shepard's waifu. In an actual military scenario, the Geth will be more versatile. Simple.

Not necessarily.  Let's see the Geth evacuate a colony or transport food without any lifesupport.  Quarians are unrivaled in logistical capabilities.

A Geth Prime would destroy a Quarian any day of the weak. An Atlas mech took out a whole squad of Military Trained Quarians on Freedom's Progress. A Geth Prime is even more of a threat than an atlas. Not to mention the Geth ALLOWED the Quarians to live.

Geth > Quarians.

Simple physics. Survival of the Fittest.

There's more to this issue than an assessment of combat strength. There is no combat without logistics, and for all the value of a strong combat force, we're not going to win this thing conventionally. The Geth excel at combat, the Quarians excel at logistics. There is little crossover. One is weak where the other is strong.

Wholly independent of those considerations, trust  is a key factor.

If we can only choose one, who do we have more grounds to trust? Who will cover our backs when everything goes to hell? Who you choose to trust, and on what grounds, is entirely up to you. It's your universe. As for me, I look at the Quarians who just helped me kill a Reaper, then the Geth who signed up to help the Reapers conduct their harvest in exchange for delayed execution, and the answer is clear.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 19 mars 2013 - 04:42 .

[David7204]

Boy, it sure is a good thing that peace between the quarians and geth is possible.

[CronoDragoon]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
If we can only choose one, who do we have more grounds to trust? Who will cover our backs when everything goes to hell? Who you choose to trust, and on what grounds, is entirely up to you. It's your universe. As for me, I look at the Quarians who just helped me kill a Reaper, then the Geth who signed up to help the Reapers conduct their harvest in exchange for delayed execution, and the answer is clear.

There are two things to consider though:

1. Post Legion upgrade, the race flaw that led to massive stupidity on the part of the geth in joining with the Reapers has been erased: destroying geth no longer lowers the intelligence of other geth platforms since they are now individuals, and the intelligence of those individuals is probably analogous to Legion. Pretty good.

2. Post-upgrade we have every reason to believe that the geth are now immune to whatever the synthetic form of Indoctrination is, while quarians if captured could theoretically still be used against the galaxy.

[Reap_ii]

David7204 wrote...

Boy, it sure is a good thing that peace between the quarians and geth is possible.

or, on the opposite side, it sure is a good thing that eliminating both is possible. 

[Only-Twin]

remydat wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

Umm when you start a war that the other side did not want to cover up your programming fu*k up then it is your fault. How much times does it need to be said. The Geth did nothing wrong. They were designed to serve and basically became too good at their job because the Quarians fu**ed up. Let me repeat. THE QUARIANS FU**ED UP. So to correct their mistake the QUARIANS TRIED TO KILL THE GETH.

The Geth BEGGED THE QUARIANS TO EXPLAIN WHY THEY HAD TO BE KILLED. The Geth SURRENDERED INSTEAD OF LETTING QUARIANS SYMPATHETIC TO THEIR CAUSE BE KILLED. They were killed by militant Quarians anyway. Finally the Geth decided to defend themselves and these Geth with no understanding of the rules of war attacked.

So who is at fault? The answer is obvious. The stupid Quarians, end of story.

Dude, seriously, take a chill pill. Wow.

Dude it is the internet.  I am not really yelling.  It is done for dramatic effect and emphasis.

Typing in all caps doesn't make you any more correct. It comes off as frustrated and immature. 

Modifié par Only-Twin, 19 mars 2013 - 04:50 .

[DeinonSlayer]

CronoDragoon wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
If we can only choose one, who do we have more grounds to trust? Who will cover our backs when everything goes to hell? Who you choose to trust, and on what grounds, is entirely up to you. It's your universe. As for me, I look at the Quarians who just helped me kill a Reaper, then the Geth who signed up to help the Reapers conduct their harvest in exchange for delayed execution, and the answer is clear.

There are two things to consider though:

1. Post Legion upgrade, the race flaw that led to massive stupidity on the part of the geth in joining with the Reapers has been erased: destroying geth no longer lowers the intelligence of other geth platforms since they are now individuals, and the intelligence of those individuals is probably analogous to Legion. Pretty good.

2. Post-upgrade we have every reason to believe that the geth are now immune to whatever the synthetic form of Indoctrination is, while quarians if captured could theoretically still be used against the galaxy.

There's a low chance of Quarians being indoctrinated - they're all in ships. It's why, according to EDI, the Reapers haven't been harvesting them. If Rannoch is hit (like Sur'Kesh, it never is according to the galaxy map, but still), as with any other organic species, it's safe to be suspicious of any "fortunate escapees."

There's also the question of whether the upgrades themselves are trustworthy. We all saw what happened with the Reaper IFF. Honestly? I would trust that Reaper code about as far as I can throw heretic station. The only reason I make peace when the option is available is because I know it won't backfire. Metagaming. I don't want to kill the Geth if I'm not forced to, and that leaves me no choice but to upload the code. Meta-knowledge that they won't go Rachni Breeder on us at an inopportune moment is all that stays my hand.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 19 mars 2013 - 04:51 .

[David7204]

The Reapers haven't bothered to harvest the quarians because they're a negligible resource. 17 million is not very much at all compared to the population of planets.

[CronoDragoon]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

There's also the question of whether the upgrades themselves are trustworthy. We all saw what happened with the Reaper IFF. Honestly? I would trust that Reaper code about as far as I can throw heretic station. The only reason I make peace when the option is available is because I know it won't backfire. Metagaming. I don't want to kill the Geth if I'm not forced to, and that leaves me no choice but to upload the code. Meta-knowledge that they won't go Rachni Breeder on us at an inopportune moment is all that stays my hand.

We saw what happened with EDI, too, though, and she is a much closer comparison considering she is a synthetic upgraded with Reaper tech just like the geth are now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the IFF wasn't bad because it was Reaper tech; a homing signal that transmitted their position was embedded within its code, right?

[CronoDragoon]

David7204 wrote...

The Reapers haven't bothered to harvest the quarians because they're a negligible resource. 17 million is not very much at all compared to the population of planets.

True, but I'm worried about Indoctrination, not harvesting. Still, the population difference point still applies. A higher possibility of 17 million quarians indoctrinated vs. a smaller possibility of millions of Reaper-upgraded geth (if something goes wrong with the Code)?

[DeinonSlayer]

CronoDragoon wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

There's also the question of whether the upgrades themselves are trustworthy. We all saw what happened with the Reaper IFF. Honestly? I would trust that Reaper code about as far as I can throw heretic station. The only reason I make peace when the option is available is because I know it won't backfire. Metagaming. I don't want to kill the Geth if I'm not forced to, and that leaves me no choice but to upload the code. Meta-knowledge that they won't go Rachni Breeder on us at an inopportune moment is all that stays my hand.

We saw what happened with EDI, too, though, and she is a much closer comparison considering she is a synthetic upgraded with Reaper tech just like the geth are now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the IFF wasn't bad because it was Reaper tech; a homing signal that transmitted their position was embedded within its code, right?

Yep. A backdoor. If I remember right, according to EDI, the IFF is itself a Reaper AI. We didn't know that before integrating it in the Normandy's systems. We didn't know that until ME3, actually, and the dialogue discussing it only shows up if Arrival is completed (I had to go to YouTube to find it). Prior to the upload (and, in fairness, even after it), we haven't the faintest idea what the Reaper code upgrades are made of - only that the Geth are currently controlled by it, and Legion/Geth VI has been hiding them all along.

In ME2, all we know is that EDI has restricted access to anti-Reaper algorithms developed by studying Sovereign. I think the Reaper tech integration is only discussed late-game in ME3.

Also, even with the Reaper code, I observe that a Geth platform can still be hacked with a halfway-decent omnitool.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 19 mars 2013 - 05:02 .

[remydat]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Geth don't see what they did as genocide. Some Quarians don't see what they did as genocide. It doesn't change the fact that it's exactly what both sides did: "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation."

Look. You and I clearly have very different interpretations of this. I look at the Geth VI and see that it has learned absolutely nothing despite having lived for three hundred years, watching - and I am perfectly willing to hold it accountable for its crimes, past and present. If a human is a sociopathic criminal, I don't take pity on account of their upbringing - their actions are what define them. I only hold the Quarians accountable for what the current generation has done - not stuff that happened generations before any of them were born. If I can make peace, I will: Legion wants to atone for past offenses, and I do believe the Quarians need to learn from their ancestors' mistakes. I detest that dubiously-trustworthy Reaper code which we aren't permitted to question is a needed part of that equation, but I won't deny them both that opportunity. If I can't make peace, I side with the Quarians - I won't condemn millions of innocents to save a parolee or an unrepentent killer. You have a different take on this, and that's your right. The writers wanted us to speculate about these things, and people will inevitably reach different conclusions.

Now, I need to get something to eat, so I'm going to sign off for now. I might be back on later.

Would the Quarians or organics destroy the Geth if the Geth posed no immediate threat to them?  The clear answer is yes.  They have laws that prohibit their existence and the Quarians have sought to exterminate them before. 

Would the Geth destroy organics if organics posed no immediate threat to them?  No.  The Geth attacked becaue the Quarians threatened them.  Even the Geth VI said if the Quarians continue to threaten us then why not wipe them out.  He is not advocating killing the Quarians simply for being born Quarian.  He is advocating killing terrorists who continue to terrorize them.

That is the difference.  Leave the Geth alone and you live even if they have the power to kill you.  Live organics alone and if they have the power to kill you, they will kill you pre-emptively just to make sure you don't pose a threat say 1,000 years from now.

[S.A.K]

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Oh and btw, if I am not mistake, Geth wouldn't be killed in destroy ending without the reaper code, because they are not true AIs. Without reaper code, Quarians can easily beat the reapers. Thats why they had to run to the reapers for help save their sorry asses.
Anyway, taking the Geth to fight the reapers, who has untold hacking abilities would be a pretty bad idea.

Of course the Quarians can win against false AI.

You could beat up your computer...however, if your computer gets true AI awareness, it will break you down on an emotion level by posting your naked pictures on the internet. I'm kidding, but you never know .

Lets face it, the only reason why anyone would pick Quarian is if Tali is Shepard's waifu. In an actual military scenario, the Geth will be more versatile. Simple.

Please clarify. Your post makes no sence.
I don't see how Geth are more versatile. The biggest use of a fleet before the final attack is evac. Geth ships don't even have breathable air. And in my playthrough, Quarians have more war assets.
I am talking about Geth needing reaper code to become true AIs.
The Geth and heretics seperated because the true Geth wish to make their own future and Heretics wish to get it from the reapers. After rewriting/destroying the Heretics, the rest of the Geth join the reapers. And then, after they are freed from the reapers, want to use reaper code to upgrade themselves. So the rest of the Geth are Heretics now. How can anyone trust them.
And my point still stands. What makes you think the reapers won't hack the Geth again when you make your choice in Rannoch without meta gaming.

About the Quarians attacking first in the Morning war:
Yes they did attack first. The Geth were created to labour for the Quarians. They were not supposed to be AIs. When your equipment starts to do something its not supposed to, you shut the darn thing down and try to figure out what's wrong. Not start peace talks with it or teach it philosophy. Correct?

People claming Geth acted in self defence:
Geth killed 99.9% of the Quarians. Mostly civiliance. How it that self defence?

Geth are open for peace?
How could anyone know this when they were killing anyone who try to contact them for the past 300 years. They didn't even bother sending a peaceful message. Hell, we didn't evne know there were 2 sides of Geth till we meet Legion.

And Geth did join the reapers at the cost of their own free will (which goes totally against their own principles). That shows they are willing to screw the whole galaxy, just to survive even in a very low state.

Sure I can see why someone would make peace. But I don't see why anyone in their right mind side with Geth over the Quarians. How many times did Quarians shoot the commander? One right? And they weren't even trying to kill him. Geth were trying to kill Shepard for 3 games.

Edit :
Why would anyone thing reaper tech is reliable? Look what it did to Cerberus.

Modifié par S.A.K, 19 mars 2013 - 05:12 .

[DeinonSlayer]

remydat wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Geth don't see what they did as genocide. Some Quarians don't see what they did as genocide. It doesn't change the fact that it's exactly what both sides did: "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation."

Look. You and I clearly have very different interpretations of this. I look at the Geth VI and see that it has learned absolutely nothing despite having lived for three hundred years, watching - and I am perfectly willing to hold it accountable for its crimes, past and present. If a human is a sociopathic criminal, I don't take pity on account of their upbringing - their actions are what define them. I only hold the Quarians accountable for what the current generation has done - not stuff that happened generations before any of them were born. If I can make peace, I will: Legion wants to atone for past offenses, and I do believe the Quarians need to learn from their ancestors' mistakes. I detest that dubiously-trustworthy Reaper code which we aren't permitted to question is a needed part of that equation, but I won't deny them both that opportunity. If I can't make peace, I side with the Quarians - I won't condemn millions of innocents to save a parolee or an unrepentent killer. You have a different take on this, and that's your right. The writers wanted us to speculate about these things, and people will inevitably reach different conclusions.

Now, I need to get something to eat, so I'm going to sign off for now. I might be back on later.

Would the Quarians or organics destroy the Geth if the Geth posed no immediate threat to them?  The clear answer is yes.  They have laws that prohibit their existence and the Quarians have sought to exterminate them before.

When they're informed that the Geth don't want to destroy them, the Quarians stand down. The Council's back-asswards laws are another matter entirely.

Would the Geth destroy organics if organics posed no immediate threat to them?  No.  The Geth attacked becaue the Quarians threatened them.  Even the Geth VI said if the Quarians continue to threaten us then why not wipe them out.  He is not advocating killing the Quarians simply for being born Quarian.  He is advocating killing terrorists who continue to terrorize them.

That is the difference.  Leave the Geth alone and you live even if they have the power to kill you.  Live organics alone and if they have the power to kill you, they will kill you pre-emptively just to make sure you don't pose a threat say 1,000 years from now.

Billions of dead quarians stand as a testament in contradiction to your argument. They deemed the entire Quarian species a threat, Skynet-style, and killed everyone who couldn't secure passage off-world in the Morning War - sympathizers and aggressors, men, women and children alike. Toxic gas does not discriminate. In the modern war, he's advocating killing the entire Quarian race, just like they did three centuries ago. The Quarians are right to recognize Geth with this mindset as a mortal threat to them - the only way they survive when pitted against the VI's geth is by destroying them. They're wrong to think this of Legion's geth, and when informed of their error, they take a leap of faith and stand down.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 19 mars 2013 - 05:14 .

[S.A.K]

There was something I wanted to know. What happens to the primes you sent to Hackett if you side with the Quarians?