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*THE GREAT DEBATE* - NO PEACE obtainable between the Geth & Quarians: Who would you choose and Why? (Pic of BioWare Stats Inside)


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#1101
remydat

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Only-Twin wrote...

remydat wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

Umm when you start a war that the other side did not want to cover up your programming fu*k up then it is your fault. How much times does it need to be said. The Geth did nothing wrong. They were designed to serve and basically became too good at their job because the Quarians fu**ed up. Let me repeat. THE QUARIANS FU**ED UP. So to correct their mistake the QUARIANS TRIED TO KILL THE GETH.

The Geth BEGGED THE QUARIANS TO EXPLAIN WHY THEY HAD TO BE KILLED. The Geth SURRENDERED INSTEAD OF LETTING QUARIANS SYMPATHETIC TO THEIR CAUSE BE KILLED. They were killed by militant Quarians anyway. Finally the Geth decided to defend themselves and these Geth with no understanding of the rules of war attacked.

So who is at fault? The answer is obvious. The stupid Quarians, end of story.


Dude, seriously, take a chill pill. Wow.


Dude it is the internet.  I am not really yelling.  It is done for dramatic effect and emphasis.


Typing in all caps doesn't make you any more correct. It comes off as frustrated and immature. 


Did I say it made me more correct?  No.  I said it was done for dramatic effect and emphasis.  And if you think it comes off as frustrated and immature then, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a d**n."  We are here to discuss opinions on Mass Effect 3 not discuss posting styles and methods.  

#1102
DeinonSlayer

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S.A.K wrote...

There was something I wanted to know. What happens to the primes you sent to Hackett if you side with the Quarians?

They vanish from your War Asset list. No explanation why. Same with Admiral Koris if you side with the Geth, for more obvious reasons.

#1103
Only-Twin

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remydat wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

remydat wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

Umm when you start a war that the other side did not want to cover up your programming fu*k up then it is your fault. How much times does it need to be said. The Geth did nothing wrong. They were designed to serve and basically became too good at their job because the Quarians fu**ed up. Let me repeat. THE QUARIANS FU**ED UP. So to correct their mistake the QUARIANS TRIED TO KILL THE GETH.

The Geth BEGGED THE QUARIANS TO EXPLAIN WHY THEY HAD TO BE KILLED. The Geth SURRENDERED INSTEAD OF LETTING QUARIANS SYMPATHETIC TO THEIR CAUSE BE KILLED. They were killed by militant Quarians anyway. Finally the Geth decided to defend themselves and these Geth with no understanding of the rules of war attacked.

So who is at fault? The answer is obvious. The stupid Quarians, end of story.


Dude, seriously, take a chill pill. Wow.


Dude it is the internet.  I am not really yelling.  It is done for dramatic effect and emphasis.


Typing in all caps doesn't make you any more correct. It comes off as frustrated and immature. 


Did I say it made me more correct?  No.  I said it was done for dramatic effect and emphasis.  And if you think it comes off as frustrated and immature then, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a d**n."  We are here to discuss opinions on Mass Effect 3 not discuss posting styles and methods.  


Defensive much? Lighten up, buddy. Go get some fresh air or something. 

#1104
silverexile17s

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This is a timeline I compiled of the quarian/geth schisim's timeline, used a while ago in another post. I'm hoping it shows that nither side is deserving of hate in the war.

1)The quarians created the geth for cheep labor. Reason: a natural advancement in automation of labor. We humans are trying to do so all the time, so you can't fault the quarians for creating the geth.

2)The eth begin to develop self-awareness. Reason: they're programming allowed self-optimization so that they could easily adapt to multiple situations without needing constant creator imput. They became self-aware as they linked themselves together, and shared they're experiences.

3)The quarians discover evidence of the geth bordering on senticance through their questions of existance. This causes the quarians to panic. Reason: Council law prohibits the creation and development of A.I.s without the
direct consent of the Council itself. If this it true, and the geth are sentiant, the Council will likely place harsh sanctions on the quarians, if not outright censorship. This would be a harsh blow to the quarian economy.

4)The quarians hide this information from the Council to keep them off their backs, while trying to desperately re-program the geth, hoping that their perceved sentiance is either a mistake in readings, or a fault that can be corrected. Reason: The geth were not seen as anything more then simple tools at the time, so their reprogramming was not considered anything more then putting a new OS on acomputer.

5)The quarians fail to halt the development of the geth. Desperate, they order all geth to forcibly be shut down. Reason: They are scared of a Council reprasial, and naturally, some of the quarians are confused at this, and ask why this is nessessary. They likely do not comply with the shut-down order at first. And likewise, the geth ignore the shutdown commnads, having developed farther and faster then expected.

6)a group of quarians resists the order, protesting that the geth can't be decomissioned for asking simple questions, and that quarian sociaty needs the geth to help advance. The quarian government responds to this by placing martial law on their terrotories. Reason: They do not need protests in the streets, as that will only serve to draw attention to their perdeciment and possibly alert the Council to the geth problem. Between fear of the Council and of what will happen when the geth realize they are being abused, the last thing the quarians need is pressure from their own people.

7)The quarian protesters are eventually disbanded, but the quarian government, now on the verge of full panic, from both the constant threat of discovery by the Council, and believing that the geth will retaliate to the failed attempt to shut them down, order them to be destroyed. Reason: The geth, having resisted shutdown, are likely on the cusp of sentiance, if not there already. The quarians must either kill them now, or face the wrath of the Council for their accedntal creations.

8)The quarians initiate the Morning War, attempting to kill the geth. Reason: The quarians have no choice, for if the truth of the geth's sentiance reaches the Council, the quarians will have even more problems to worry over. Also, they hoped the geth were still just at the brink of sentiance, and therefore could be brought down. Also, to sooth the ethical side, if the geth weren't setiant yet, then there was no qualm about killing them. Eevn then, there would be no real proof that the geth were really alive, or just phantomimeing life. The quarians had no clue that the geth were already sentiant, and were not mimicing life, but were actually alive.

9)The geth are attacked, and retaliate, assaulting the other as hard as possible. Reason: The geth are still in their infancy, and do not understand the reasons of the quarians's assault. They in turn panic, lashing out at the quarians as hard as possible to drive them back, no longer caring about civilian casulaties, as survival of geth is now prioritized over survival of quarians.

10)The geth retaliation is largely successful, as several quarian worlds, such as Haestrom, fall early in the war. (see Haestrom's discription for proof, as "one of the first worlds to fall.") The quarians retaliate in turn. Reason: In the wake of the geth's defense and subsiquent counterattacks, the quarians are sent realing, and, now that the geth have stopped caring about civilian casualites in favor of their own self-preservation, any concerns about the geth being unfairly treated disolve, and the quarians unite as a whole against the geth. The Morning War becomes a bloody war of survival, with nither side having any plans to relent until the other is soundly defeated.

11)The Morning War qucikly escalates, with both sides inflicting deep wounds on each-other that will infulence their future actions. Reason: The toxin damage from the Morning War that the geth continue to clean up could only be the fallout of chemcal weapons, which are the only things that could leave fallout that the geth are continueing to clean up after 300 years. It also makes no sense for the quarians to use, as damaging the delacate environment of their worlds would be detremental to their own recovery, presuming they won the war. As well as that, being desinged for labor that was too tedious or dangerous for the quarians themselves, the geth would be immune to chemical warfare. Only the geth could effectively use such weapons, which would be supremely effective against the fragile immune systems of the quarians. Likewise, it wouldn't surprise me if the quarians used sestimic viral attacks to delete and destroy hundreds upon hundreds of geth programs.

12) The Morning War begins to come to a head when the geth systemically drive the quarians back world by world, forcing them back to Tikkun. Reason: The geth's platforms were nonescental to them, and easily replacible, therefore the geth could hurl themselves in droves at the quarians in "suicide attack" patterns with impunity. The quarians, between the chem warfare and the geth forces that seemingly lacked any self-preservation in face-to-face combat, were slaughtered in the millions upon millions.

13) The geth attack the Tikkun System, assaulting every quarian world in sight, even seemingly unimportant  worlds like the mining colony of Adas. Reason: The quarians have been classed as the primary threat to geth existance. To ensure the threat is neutrlized completely, the geth not only target the quarians, but the infrastructure for their economy, military, and government, to ensure they never recover.

14)After a full year of sustained warfare, the Morning War ends with the geth overrunning Rannoch, forcing the last tattered remnants of the quarian fleet to evacuate the planet and flee for their lives. The geth do not persue after them. Reason: The geth, still in their infancy, are left unable to calculate the ramafacations of an act of complete genocode. Regardless of this, with their government in shambles, and the collective backbone of their econonmy and military broken, the quarians are no longer classed as a threat to geth existance.

15)The geth consolidate resources in the Tikkun system to begin work on a Dyson Bubble - a massive interlocking "web" of solar collection satillites that will completely encircle Rannoch's star (Tikkun). Reason: Unknown why Tikkun was the chosen system. Perhaps they simply didn't want to abandon their "nest" after haven driven their "parents" out, and felt oblidged to fill the gap left behind, in rememberance of the quarians they killed in their mad panic to survive. Although, this implies a sentimentality that the geth aren't believed to exibit till well after the first century after the war, althouth this in turn is speculatory. The web of satllites will power a massive
information networlk hub sowen into the Dyson Bubble that will unite all geth into a single interlocking community, where no geth will need ever be alone, or afarid, again. The disadvantage of this is that a Dyson Bubble is an imobile construct, and unless the star itself is made mobile, the geth are forever stuck in the Tikkun system. Even if the star was made mobile (unlikely) Rannoch would die as a result of the loss of it's star. In fact, the loss of such a massive amount of solar energy, absorbed by the megastructure well before it could ever reach Rannoch, would be detremental to the plante's ecology, as without the primary mamals (quarians) to help them repopulate, the plant life will be strained to the brink.

16)The quarians, broken and beaten, finally come clean to the Council about the geth. The Council is furious, but places higher concern on the possible geth threat. They assemble a fleet to blockade the Perceus Vail in  preperation for a geth attack. Reason: After the near-genocide of the quarians, there is no reason to believe they will see any other organic life as any less of a threat. But the geth never come out of the Veil. The geth do not wish to waste time on sensless death of organic and synthetic alike, because they don't see how anyone is bettered by it, or how attacking will aid any of their goals, as if the geth attack, it will force others to attack in turn. The geth know all too well the chain reaction of retaliating after being attacked, and do not wish to repeat their own war by mimicing the quarians attack. And by further contrast, the sight of a blockade right on their doorstep only further discourages the geth from wanting anything to do with the rest of the galaxy, as they bascially decide it's like stepping out the door just to have a shotgun pointed at your head as a greeting.

17)With the geth seemingly unwilling to come outside the Veil, the quarians demand that the Council go in and drive the geth out, for several reasons. (a) the geth are unshackled A.I.'s, and potentally dangerous to leave be, (B) already have more then enough (assumed) antiginism to organics from the Morning War, © the quarians wish for  justice and/or revenge for the slaughter of their race, and (d) their species is physiologically dependant on Rannoch's plant life, which will affect their species negitively the longer they are away from it.
The Council is however furious and ignore the quarians pleas, blaming them for: (a) creating the geth, (B) not managing them closely enough, and © attacking them without going to the Council for advisement on the situation. They therefore decide that the quarians have no right to request anything for their "mistakes" and ban them from the Citadel Conventions, effectively rendering them an exiled race - the first race exiled from the Council Government since the krogan, and followed by the batarians 300 years later. The geth in turn decide that organics are not worth the trouble, or risk in general, of contacting, and completely isolate themselves from the galaxy.

18) The quarians are forced into a treaty saying they will not provoke the geth into coming out of the Veil again, forever damning them from ever being able to reclaim their homewolrd until the Council feels like allowing  it, and are reduced to nomads living day-to-day in the battered remains of their fleet, unable to live without their suits.
Meanwhile, the geth, strictly enforcing their isolation, shoot down any and all ships that enter the Perceus Vail, including the multiple unarmed diplomatic ships, believing that no peace talks could ever bear fruit. This isolation costs them the opportunity to ever try and make ammends with the rest of the galaxy, as they were too afarid to take the risk and see what happens if they tried. Just as Mordin Solus sterilized the krogan over predictions of maybe, but not what diffinitively happens, so to did the geth let the entire galaxy hate them based on their own perdections.

19) The quarians make repeated attempts to find a new world, but are either forced out every time by pirates, Terminus Factions, or the Council. Few worlds have the Dextro-based life that they need, or an ecosystem that matches Rannoch's at all. At least one that hasn't been claimed by the turians. Ekuna is one such world, where they are threatened by the Council at gunpoint off a world they discovered. They eventually lose hope of finding a world that can replace Rannoch.

20) 300 years after the end of the Morning War, the geth's isolation is broken by Sovergien and Saren. Sovergien offers the geth a choice: help it to defeat the organic races, and it will grant them a Reaper Body for them to upload into. A quick shortcut compaired to their Dyson Bubble.
The majority of gteh decide that they must, like always, walk their own path, and will not accept "handouts,"  refusing Sovergien's offer. However, 7% of the geth accept. The "True" Geth exile them, calling them "Heretics," but yet, allow the Heretics to leave with Sovergien, knowing full well what will happen to organic life should they succed. To them, organic life isn't a major concern in comparison to their own goals. As long as their own objectives remain uncomprimised, they couldn't give a damn. They tried in the Morning War with the quarians protesters and it got them nowhere, so why bother with other organic's well being now?

21) With seemingly no provocation, the Geth Heretcis assault Eden Prime, killing hundreds, if not thousands, of
humans. Civilians and military personel alike. The Council is thrown for a loop by this, even more so when their prized best Spectre is revealed to be the perpetrator of the event. In retaliation, the Alliance declares an active state of war with the geth, backed by the Council after Saren's implication is uncovered.
This is a pivital moment for the quarians, as not only do the quarians now feel justified in premptively attacking the geth during the Morning War, but it basically renders the treaty the Council forced on them - against provoking the geth - now completely redundant. With the Alliance and Council declaring war on the geth, it means that the quarians could (if they were able to) plow through the geth right back to Rannoch and the Council wouldn't give a
damn. In fact, they figure they might even get medals for it. This is likely where Rael'Zorah and Han'Gerrel begin drawing up the prelimanary plans for the re-taking of Rannoch. Gerrel, not knowing about the Heretic split, would believe that this proves the quarians right about geth hostilaty, and that they will become a threat to everyone, and
likely treates it as a personal duty to "fix their past mistakes." It gives all quarians hope that they can finally have the chance to return home, now that the Council have willingly declared "open season" on the geth. By contrast, Zaal'Koris is lilely mortified by the Heretics, and probably feels that the harsh treatment the quarians gave the geth in the Morning War spurned them to hate, and therfore attack other races, and that the geth's actions are on the quarians shoulders.

22) The Heretics are defeated at the Battle of the Citadel. Tali'Zorah nar Rayya returns trihumphant aganst the geth, basically becoming a hero among the quarians, and joins the ship of her father's close friend, Han'Gerrel vas Neema. The Council, in retaliation for the assault on the Citadel, declare the geth as enemies of the free galaxy. This basically amounts to "if you see a geth, shoot to kill."
The Heretics continue operations agains the galaxy, and the True Geth become intrested in Shepard. The organic who killed the Heretics "God." Curious, they create a prototype geth platform, and send it out to find and study Shepard, and organics at large, now for the first time in years taking an active interest in the galaxy at large.

23) The geth platform visits Eden Prime, and is promptly shot. However, instead of repairing the damage to it's chest, continues exploring, for reasons unknown. Shepard is killed by the Collectors, where the prototype platorm ends it's search at the wreck of the Normandy on Alchera. It recovers Shepard's chestplate and, possibly out of a sense of admiration for the Commanders actions, straps it onto itself. The True Geth subsiquently continue cursuroy studies into organics, through the platform, and through satilite observation and extranet searches. Meanwhile, Rael'Zorah continues development of a sestimic viral system that can assault the geth.

24) Shepard is resurrected by Cerberus. The geth discover that the Heretics are planning to attack them with a virus that will brainwash them, and now finally resolve to focus on the Heretics as a threat. Rael'Zorah continues work on the weapon and, after Tali's transfer to the Normandy,loses control of the geth test subjects and is subsequently killed. The Migrant Fleet discovers the geth presance, which once again re-ignites the debate on whether or not to reclam Rannoch, or continue looking for a new world. Meanwhile, the geth platform heads to the Reaper Corpse to recover and study Reaper technology, so as to be able to effectivly interface with the quantum black box Sovergien gave the Heretcis, whihc contains the Heretic's virus. The geth is (assumed to be) rescued by Shepard, who (along with EDI) name the platofrm "Legion."

25) Tali's trial ends, and the quarians continue debates, as well as try to figure out who will replace Rael'Zorah on the Admiralty Board. The geth,learning of positive experances with organics through Legion's time with Shepard, begin to debate on weather or not their ioslation was benifecial. Shepard is made aware of the Heretic split and aids Legion in it's resolution.

26) Shepard makes reports to Alliance HQ about the geth after the Commander willingly submits to Alliance judgement after the Suicide Mission. However, the Commanders Cerberus Ties, the sensitive issue regarding the Alpha Relay incident and the Batarian Hegemony's threats of war, and the Commander's continued assertations about the Reapers, all render Shepard's word as innadmissable as evidence of the geth being a friendly, or even netural faction. So the State of War with the geth is not recinded. Legion and Tali maintain communications, whith Tali offering the prospect of peace to the Admiralty Board.
Gerrel sees no reason to trust the geth - still
listed as galactic enemy #1- at their word. Xen refuses to see the geth as living beings with such a level of free will, believing the geth are only saying such things for self-preservation. Raan is sceptical that the geth and quarians could ever achieve reunification with all the bad blood between their respective races. Only Koris is willing to take the risk, believing that both races have suffered under each-others hate for long enough. However, before any negotiaons can come to a head, Legion returns to geth space and cuts all contact with Tali, to aid the geth in their personal preperations, leaving the prospect unfulfilled as Tali is unable to reconnect with Legion.

27) The Reaper War begins. The quarians are left desperate by their arrival. They cannot fight the Reapers while defending over 15-16 million civilians. They cannot split the fleet to aid in multiple fronts, as, in their current situation, the fleet is incapable of being seperated, since the combat ships rely on raw materials from the civilian fleet, which likewise relies on the combat ships for protection. There is no where else for their civilians to go, as the only worlds that can support them are dextro-worlds, which the turians own almost all of. And since they are all either under attack, or already filled past capasity, there is no turian colony that is actively able to take 15-16 million civilians that all have strict health and diatary needs. The ONLY way the quarians have any chance to survive, as well as aid the other races, is if they suddenly became self-sufficant. To do that, they need a stable power base, and a near-constant supply of resources and food. Also, having an atmosphere that won't kill them in the instance of a suit breach would be nice too. There is only one world in the known galaxy that fits all these requirements: Rannoch.
And it is conviently held by a race that is still listed as "At War" by the Council, and is now on the watch-list as Reaper Allies. It's everything the quarians could ever need, with nothing preventing them from doing so. Daro'Xen finishes the incomplete viral weapon designed by Rael'Zorah, and the quarians tear through four of the geth controled systems, pushing through to Rannoch.
The geth, by contrast, make preperations for war. However, given the many unknown factors, the geth do not activally partake in the war, instead building up to survive on their own. As before, self-preservation becomes the
central goal, as there is no assurances that lending assisatnce to other organic races will be benifical to them in the long run, and if they stay out of sight, the Reapers might pass them over. They were likely preparing for the possible war, but not activally planning to go on the march alongside organics. However, a Reaper arrived on Rannoch well before the quarians arrived at the system. This is where the geth were offered the chance to join up with the Reapers. As the geth are pondering the ramafacations, pros and cons of said proposition, the quarians attack them. The geth, now seeing the quarians as a permenant threat in light of the attack, lable the quarians as too dangerous to them to leave alive a second time, and commit themselves to wiping quarians out for good this time.The Second Quarian/Geth War begins.

28) The geth are unable to counter the quarian's "viral flash-bang," and the quarians breach the geth's defenses and besiege the Megastructure, causing massive damage. The geth, blinded from Xen's viral attacks and pushed to the brink by the flash lobotomy that the megastructure's attack was to them, are dirven to utter desperation. Wanting nothing more then to live, they accept the offer the Reapers give them to join up. An ironic notion, as desperation to live through the purge of the Reapers was what drove the quarians to attack the geth and attempt to re-take Rannoch. From here, the geth counter the quarians swiftly, now immune to the quarians viral weapon. They blockade the Tikkun Relay and entrap the quarian fleet, with the Reapers seeming to not want the quarians dead, but conatined, for a convient harvest later on.

29) Commander Shepard is brought in by the quarians to end the war, meeting thanks to a quarian prototype stealth ship. Shepard leads a strike on the Geth Dreadnought that serves as the flagship of the Rannoch fleet. The flagship is disabled and Legion, captive as a signal booster to control all geth everywhere, is freed, and disables the ship so that Shepard can escape, and to save both the quarians outside, and potentally end the   Reaper control of other geth. Gerrel, seeing that the dreadnough is down, decides that this is the perfect chance to destroy a major future threat, with little to no possibilaty of being able to have this chance again. Gerrel opens fire on the ship, destroying it.
Legion later reveals that the Reapers have a "short-range base" on Rannoch, indicating that the Reapers have effectively lost control of all other geth besides the ones in the Tikkun system. However, this means that the blockade around the Tikkun Relay is still intact, and the fleet still stranded. So either way, the Reaper Base on Rannoch must be delt with.

30) Shepard leads a final strike on the Reaper controling the geth on Rannoch. The second Quarian/Geth War ends.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 19 mars 2013 - 05:52 .


#1105
remydat

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

When they're informed that the Geth don't want to destroy them, the Quarians stand down. The Council's back-asswards laws are another matter entirely.

Billions of dead quarians stand as a testament in contradiction to your argument. They deemed the entire Quarian species a threat, Skynet-style, and killed everyone who couldn't secure passage off-world in the Morning War - sympathizers and aggressors, men, women and children alike. Toxic gas does not discriminate. In the modern war, he's advocating killing the entire Quarian race, just like they did three centuries ago. The Quarians are right to recognize Geth with this mindset as a mortal threat to them - the only way they survive when pitted against the VI's geth is by destroying them. They're wrong to think this of Legion's geth, and when informed of their error, they take a leap of faith and stand down.


You mean when Shepard shames them into standing down as the Reaper Code that would kill them all is being uploaded?  I don't know maybe I am getting my Paragon and Renegade options mixed up but I thought it was pretty clear that they stand down only because of Shepard. The Geth's default position is if you leave me alone I won't attack you.  The Quarians default position is we need to kill the Geth and they have to be persuaded not to by Sheperd.

The Geth killed because that threat was imminent and in fact the Quarians already attempted to carry it out. The entire Quarian race was a threat to them because they saw the Quarians who supported them butchered. 

The best way to survive when pitted against the VI's geth is by not threatening them.  Again, the dialogue you provided said the Geth VI says they will wipe out those who threaten them.  So guess what, don't threaten them.  Why is this so hard for Quarians to understand?

Here is the part of the story EDI left out.  She was allowed to develop and grow into an adult without having the organics in her life try and murder her.  The Geth were born ie became self aware and the first thing they encountered was their Quarian fathers murdering their Quarian mothers (ie the protestors) and then trying to kill them.  They were baptized in blood and like a child or animal when threatened resorted to the most basic instinct kill or be killed.  The Geth didn't learn about restraint or not to use chemical weapons or not to kill the enemy quickly or  developed compassion because the Quarians never gave them the chance to. 

And that is why the Reaper solution was created IMO.  The Quarians are proof that conflict is inevitable because the natural reaction organics have is to kill their children which leads to those children in their infancy learning that it is kill or be killed.  As that self awareness grows exponentially so does that instinct. to the point that the logical conclusions for them in response to a threat is to wipe it out.  Organics basically created a self fulfilling prophecy.

Modifié par remydat, 19 mars 2013 - 06:25 .


#1106
remydat

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Only-Twin wrote...

remydat wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

remydat wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

Umm when you start a war that the other side did not want to cover up your programming fu*k up then it is your fault. How much times does it need to be said. The Geth did nothing wrong. They were designed to serve and basically became too good at their job because the Quarians fu**ed up. Let me repeat. THE QUARIANS FU**ED UP. So to correct their mistake the QUARIANS TRIED TO KILL THE GETH.

The Geth BEGGED THE QUARIANS TO EXPLAIN WHY THEY HAD TO BE KILLED. The Geth SURRENDERED INSTEAD OF LETTING QUARIANS SYMPATHETIC TO THEIR CAUSE BE KILLED. They were killed by militant Quarians anyway. Finally the Geth decided to defend themselves and these Geth with no understanding of the rules of war attacked.

So who is at fault? The answer is obvious. The stupid Quarians, end of story.


Dude, seriously, take a chill pill. Wow.


Dude it is the internet.  I am not really yelling.  It is done for dramatic effect and emphasis.


Typing in all caps doesn't make you any more correct. It comes off as frustrated and immature. 


Did I say it made me more correct?  No.  I said it was done for dramatic effect and emphasis.  And if you think it comes off as frustrated and immature then, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a d**n."  We are here to discuss opinions on Mass Effect 3 not discuss posting styles and methods.  


Defensive much? Lighten up, buddy. Go get some fresh air or something. 


Really, I thought my Gone With the Wind reference was very light.  Tough crowd I guess.

#1107
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

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I'm all for robro peace and understanding, really that is the best solution for everyone.

But if it were to come down to it I'd pick the Quarians, you don't side with the Reapers twice and expect mercy.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 19 mars 2013 - 06:13 .


#1108
DeinonSlayer

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remydat wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

When they're informed that the Geth don't want to destroy them, the Quarians stand down. The Council's back-asswards laws are another matter entirely.

Billions of dead quarians stand as a testament in contradiction to your argument. They deemed the entire Quarian species a threat, Skynet-style, and killed everyone who couldn't secure passage off-world in the Morning War - sympathizers and aggressors, men, women and children alike. Toxic gas does not discriminate. In the modern war, he's advocating killing the entire Quarian race, just like they did three centuries ago. The Quarians are right to recognize Geth with this mindset as a mortal threat to them - the only way they survive when pitted against the VI's geth is by destroying them. They're wrong to think this of Legion's geth, and when informed of their error, they take a leap of faith and stand down.


You mean when Shepard shames them into standing down as the Reaper Code that would kill them all is being uploaded?  I don't know maybe I am getting my Paragon and Renegade options mixed up but I thought it was pretty clear that they stand down only because of Shepard. The Geth's default position is if you leave me alone I won't attack you.  The Quarians default position is we need to kill the Geth and they have to be persuaded not to by Sheperd.

Because the Quarians have no reason to believe the Geth will spare them. They know what the Geth did to them historically (embodied by the Geth VI, which offers no quarter) and they are reacting based on the information they have. They only die if you upload the code without telling them. For all they know, another Reaper backup came online, in which case ceasing fire wouldn't spare them anyway.

The Geth killed because that threat was imminent and in fact the Quarians already attempted to carry it out. The entire Quarian race was a threat to them because they saw the Quarians who supported them butchered.

We don't know what they saw in its entirety. They showed you one casualty; you assume it was more when even they don't say it was. Would you want an entity judging the fate of the entire human race based on a single incident?

The best way to survive when pitted against the VI's geth is by not threatening them.  Again, the dialogue you provided said the Geth VI says they will wipe out those who threaten them.  So guess what, don't threaten them.  Why is this so hard for Quarians to understand?

It. Does not. Care.

It already deemed the Quarians, as a species, to be a threat to it - long ago. Generations ago. It has seen sympathetic organics. It doesn't care that it would be killing them. It did it before. It was passive until it had the upper hand, and then it sprang the proposition about killing the Quarians in exchange for an alliance.

No matter how much you harp away at this, I will not hold the current generation of Quarians responsible for what their long-dead ancestors did. I will not, under any circumstances, allow millions of people who have done nothing in this war be killed by an entity which already has the blood of billions on its hands.

If you really want to go back to the original Morning War geth, consider this. On one side, you've got the guy from apartment 12D who takes rapid transit to work, genuinely loves his wife and kids and tells increasingly dirty jokes to his friends when he gets drunk. A planet with a billion people. Thousands of years of accumulated achievements. Art. History. Generational ancestor VI archives. Primary schools. Countless intra-personal connections, conflicts both ongoing and resolved. Everything that makes a society, a culture, a people, what it is.

On the other side, you have the Geth. Non-sapient VI's which are just starting to rise above that through a process neither they nor their creators anticipated. And as you noted, there was nothing there. They're empty vessels, as you put it - no understanding, no morals. You seem to use this lack of understanding as an excuse for their early behavior; that they can't be held accountable for it. The closest analogue we run into is the Rachni Queen's wayward brood on Noveria. No understanding. Just fear, and the capacity for unthinkable destruction. The Geth even used their "zerg" tactics, according to the Codex.

It's tragic. It's wrong, what was done to them. The Geth had a right to defend themselves, but when they spill over from self-defense to targeting the family of the guy from 12D, they have to be destroyed. "They can only cause harm as they are."

That isn't what happened, though. They were never stopped. They wiped their creators out. They destroyed all of that, leaving only refugees adrift in space - the tattered remnants of what was a complete culture. Centuries passed, and if Legion hasn't made it back to them, they still treat organics the same way despite having all that time to learn something from the observations they made. I can sympathize with their origins; what happened to them was unjust - but as I said, I don't think a sociopathic human criminal should be shown leniency just because he had a crappy childhood.

Legion's geth want to make up for what they did. I give them that chance when I can. But when the Geth VI wants to add millions more innocent people to its body count, it gets three rounds to the face.

Here is the part of the story EDI left out.  She was allowed to develop and grow into an adult without having the organics in her life try and murder her. The Geth were born ie became self aware and the first thing they encountered was their Quarian fathers (the majority) murdering their Quarian mothers (the minoritie) and then trying to kill them.  They were baptized in blood and like a child or animal when threatened resorted to the most basic instinct kill or be killed.  The Geth didn't learn about restraint or not to use chemical weapons or not to kill the enemy quickly or  developed compassion because the Quarians never gave them the chance to.

Like I said - Noverian rachni. EDI was handled right - she poses no threat to anyone, and it's crap that the Council would want entities like her shut down. We can't just let a crazed electronic animal get away with anything it tries to do just because it doesn't grasp what it's doing, though.

And that is why the Reaper solution was created IMO.  The Quarians are proof that conflict is inevitable because the natural reaction organics have is to kill their children which leads to those children in their infancy learning that it is kill or be killed.  As that self awareness grows exponentially so does that instinct. to the point that the logical conclusions for them in response to a threat is to wipe it out.  Organics basically created a self fulfilling prophecy.

Uh, no. The Council's categorical ban needs to be overturned. Organics from both this cycle and the last have proven that, without Reaper intervention, they're perfectly capable of coming out on top if it comes to conflict. Such conflict is completely avoidable when AI is properly handled. Properly "raised." Like EDI. If organic species actually help each other out when problems arise (as opposed to, say, the Council outlawing AI, watching Rannoch burn because they tried to follow their laws and casting the survivors into the dark), there's no telling what they're capable of.

Starbrat's data sample comes from a time period where all organics were Leviathan thralls. It's tainted. This has a streamlining effect - when a pattern is enforced in the beginning, patterns can be expected to emerge at the other end. Two out of three synthetic uprisings that we know of in the last two cycles were caused by the brat's own meddling - the Zha'til were getting along fine with their creators until the Reapers corrupted them. Take them out of the equation, fix the Council's law, help each other when problems come up... the sky's the limit.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 19 mars 2013 - 06:47 .


#1109
S.A.K

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In the end Legion dies regardless of the player choice and over 80% of the players end up killing the Geth thanks to destroy. Can't kill the reapers or save Shepard without screwing the Geth.

Bioware rules!

Muahahaha!:devil:

#1110
remydat

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

We don't know what they saw in its entirety. They showed you one casualty; you assume it was more when even they don't say it was. Would you want an entity judging the fate of the entire human race based on a single incident?

It. Does not. Care.

It already deemed the Quarians, as a species, to be a threat to it - long ago. Generations ago. It has seen sympathetic organics. It doesn't care that it would be killing them. It did it before. It was passive until it had the upper hand, and then it sprang the proposition about killing the Quarians in exchange for an alliance.

No matter how much you harp away at this, I will not hold the current generation of Quarians responsible for what their long-dead ancestors did. I will not, under any circumstances, allow millions of people who have done nothing in this war be killed by an entity which already has the blood of billions on its hands.

If you really want to go back to the original Morning War geth, consider this. On one side, you've got the guy from apartment 12D who takes rapid transit to work, genuinely loves his wife and kids and tells increasingly dirty jokes to his friends when he gets drunk. A planet with a billion people. Thousands of years of accumulated achievements. Art. History. Generational ancestor VI archives. Primary schools. Countless intra-personal connections, conflicts both ongoing and resolved. Everything that makes a society, a culture, a people, what it is.

On the other side, you have the Geth. Non-sapient VI's which are just starting to rise above that through a process neither they nor their creators anticipated. And as you noted, there was nothing there. They're empty vessels, as you put it - no understanding, no morals. You seem to use this lack of understanding as an excuse for their early behavior; that they can't be held accountable for it. The closest analogue we run into is the Rachni Queen's wayward brood on Noveria. No understanding. Just fear, and the capacity for unthinkable destruction. The Geth even used their "zerg" tactics, according to the Codex.

It's tragic. It's wrong, what was done to them. The Geth had a right to defend themselves, but when they spill over from self-defense to targeting the family of the guy from 12D, they have to be destroyed. "They can only cause harm as they are."

That isn't what happened, though. They were never stopped. They wiped their creators out. They destroyed all of that, leaving only refugees adrift in space - the tattered remnants of what was a complete culture. Centuries passed, and if Legion hasn't made it back to them, they still treat organics the same way despite having all that time to learn something from the observations they made. I can sympathize with their origins; what happened to them was unjust - but as I said, I don't think a sociopathic human criminal should be shown leniency just because he had a crappy childhood.

Legion's geth want to make up for what they did. I give them that chance when I can. But when the Geth VI wants to add millions more innocent people to its body count, it gets three rounds to the face.

Like I said - Noverian rachni. EDI was handled right - she poses no threat to anyone, and it's crap that the Council would want entities like her shut down. We can't just let a crazed electronic animal get away with anything it tries to do just because it doesn't grasp what it's doing, though.

Uh, no. The Council's categorical ban needs to be overturned. Organics from both this cycle and the last have proven that, without Reaper intervention, they're perfectly capable of coming out on top if it comes to conflict. Such conflict is completely avoidable when AI is properly handled. Properly "raised." Like EDI. If organic species actually help each other out when problems arise (as opposed to, say, the Council outlawing AI, watching Rannoch burn because they tried to follow their laws and casting the survivors into the dark), there's no telling what they're capable of.

Starbrat's data sample comes from a time period where all organics were Leviathan thralls. It's tainted. This has a streamlining effect - when a pattern is enforced in the beginning, patterns can be expected to emerge at the other end. Two out of three synthetic uprisings that we know of in the last two cycles were caused by the brat's own meddling - the Zha'til were getting along fine with their creators until the Reapers corrupted them. Take them out of the equation, fix the Council's law, help each other when problems come up... the sky's the limit.


There would be no point in showing us a single incident of a Quarian being murdered.  We are shown it so we can see an example of what the Geth experienced.  Or did you wan't that mission to last hours as we saw all the Quarians that died at the hands of other Quarians?  Legion made a point of saying they kept the memories ie plural of those the Quarians had forgetten.  But if you want to assume it was just an isolated incident you are free to do so.

When did Geth VI propose killing the Quarians?   Again I have never seen this dude but if it is after the Quarians attacked the Geth then it has concluded they are a threat because they are currently trying to wipe the Geth out.  And by they that includes civilians ships.  Are the Geth suppose to pretend like those civilians ships are not attacking them?

Are the long dead ancestors the ones who ordered the current attack on the Geth instead of say helping their human and Turian allies whose worlds are presently under attack?  And if you don't want to kill them for twice trying to wipe out the Geth then don't.  I am telling you what I would do if I had to choose not telling you what you should do.  In reality, I always choose the peace option.

I don't care about the achievements of the Quarians.  For all their culture and achievements they wanted to snuff out an emerging sentient race because they were too chicken sh*t to deal with their actions like adults.  I hold fully grown adults more responsible for their cowardice than I do what amounts to a child or animal being threatened by what is the equivalent to its parents and resorting to basic instinct.  Perhaps that dude in 12D should have stood up for what was right and demanded his government own up to it's mistake.  You know how adults are suppose to.  And the Geth develop morals by the time the Morning War ends because they spare the Quarians when they could have wiped them out.   However, the damage is already done to their development because of the Quarians.

And I will ask again, what did present day Quarians learn?  They attacked the Geth again instead of assisting allies. Basically the Quarians  of the past launched an unnecessary campaign of annihilation against the Geth and the Quarians of the present day did the same thing.  The present day Quarians are led by two Admirals Gherel and Xen who basically still think of the Geth as glorified toasters.  You are free to ignore that.  I don't.  300 years later and the Quarians are still doing the same dumb sh*t and the majority are still too scared to oppose their leaders.

As for the Council, the point to me is that every Cycle breeds this fear.  The reason the organics could currently stand up to the the Geth is because the Geth are not the real synthetic threat.  The real synthetic threat are the synthetics that would be created say 1,000 years from the current time if the Reapers didn't come to harvest.  That synthetic threat would be like the Reaper coded Geth because the point of the harvest is to prevent organics from advancing to the point that they create Super AI that are miles beyond the Geth.  We haven't seen that type of Super AI because the Reapers start Reaping before it can happen.  

Stop the Reaping and ease the council laws and what do you think happens when a synthetic race really takes off?  Organics will go back to being scared.  Hell maybe this Super AI does something to scare them.  The point though is this.  Organics don't automatically blame all other organics for each others crimes.  The Salarians don't say well the Krogan were a**holes so the humans will be too.  They understand that each organic species is different.  However, they naturally assume all synthetic life is the same so the minute one of them steps out of line they won't just deal with that one group, they will go back to assuming all synthetics are the same and punish all synthetics.  And without the Harvest they will come across some Super Ai that decides screw it, all organic life will pay for hating me.

#1111
silverexile17s

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remydat wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

We don't know what they saw in its entirety. They showed you one casualty; you assume it was more when even they don't say it was. Would you want an entity judging the fate of the entire human race based on a single incident?

It. Does not. Care.

It already deemed the Quarians, as a species, to be a threat to it - long ago. Generations ago. It has seen sympathetic organics. It doesn't care that it would be killing them. It did it before. It was passive until it had the upper hand, and then it sprang the proposition about killing the Quarians in exchange for an alliance.

No matter how much you harp away at this, I will not hold the current generation of Quarians responsible for what their long-dead ancestors did. I will not, under any circumstances, allow millions of people who have done nothing in this war be killed by an entity which already has the blood of billions on its hands.

If you really want to go back to the original Morning War geth, consider this. On one side, you've got the guy from apartment 12D who takes rapid transit to work, genuinely loves his wife and kids and tells increasingly dirty jokes to his friends when he gets drunk. A planet with a billion people. Thousands of years of accumulated achievements. Art. History. Generational ancestor VI archives. Primary schools. Countless intra-personal connections, conflicts both ongoing and resolved. Everything that makes a society, a culture, a people, what it is.

On the other side, you have the Geth. Non-sapient VI's which are just starting to rise above that through a process neither they nor their creators anticipated. And as you noted, there was nothing there. They're empty vessels, as you put it - no understanding, no morals. You seem to use this lack of understanding as an excuse for their early behavior; that they can't be held accountable for it. The closest analogue we run into is the Rachni Queen's wayward brood on Noveria. No understanding. Just fear, and the capacity for unthinkable destruction. The Geth even used their "zerg" tactics, according to the Codex.

It's tragic. It's wrong, what was done to them. The Geth had a right to defend themselves, but when they spill over from self-defense to targeting the family of the guy from 12D, they have to be destroyed. "They can only cause harm as they are."

That isn't what happened, though. They were never stopped. They wiped their creators out. They destroyed all of that, leaving only refugees adrift in space - the tattered remnants of what was a complete culture. Centuries passed, and if Legion hasn't made it back to them, they still treat organics the same way despite having all that time to learn something from the observations they made. I can sympathize with their origins; what happened to them was unjust - but as I said, I don't think a sociopathic human criminal should be shown leniency just because he had a crappy childhood.

Legion's geth want to make up for what they did. I give them that chance when I can. But when the Geth VI wants to add millions more innocent people to its body count, it gets three rounds to the face.

Like I said - Noverian rachni. EDI was handled right - she poses no threat to anyone, and it's crap that the Council would want entities like her shut down. We can't just let a crazed electronic animal get away with anything it tries to do just because it doesn't grasp what it's doing, though.

Uh, no. The Council's categorical ban needs to be overturned. Organics from both this cycle and the last have proven that, without Reaper intervention, they're perfectly capable of coming out on top if it comes to conflict. Such conflict is completely avoidable when AI is properly handled. Properly "raised." Like EDI. If organic species actually help each other out when problems arise (as opposed to, say, the Council outlawing AI, watching Rannoch burn because they tried to follow their laws and casting the survivors into the dark), there's no telling what they're capable of.

Starbrat's data sample comes from a time period where all organics were Leviathan thralls. It's tainted. This has a streamlining effect - when a pattern is enforced in the beginning, patterns can be expected to emerge at the other end. Two out of three synthetic uprisings that we know of in the last two cycles were caused by the brat's own meddling - the Zha'til were getting along fine with their creators until the Reapers corrupted them. Take them out of the equation, fix the Council's law, help each other when problems come up... the sky's the limit.


There would be no point in showing us a single incident of a Quarian being murdered.  We are shown it so we can see an example of what the Geth experienced.  Or did you wan't that mission to last hours as we saw all the Quarians that died at the hands of other Quarians?  Legion made a point of saying they kept the memories ie plural of those the Quarians had forgetten.  But if you want to assume it was just an isolated incident you are free to do so.

When did Geth VI propose killing the Quarians?   Again I have never seen this dude but if it is after the Quarians attacked the Geth then it has concluded they are a threat because they are currently trying to wipe the Geth out.  And by they that includes civilians ships.  Are the Geth suppose to pretend like those civilians ships are not attacking them?

Are the long dead ancestors the ones who ordered the current attack on the Geth instead of say helping their human and Turian allies whose worlds are presently under attack?  And if you don't want to kill them for twice trying to wipe out the Geth then don't.  I am telling you what I would do if I had to choose not telling you what you should do.  In reality, I always choose the peace option.

I don't care about the achievements of the Quarians.  For all their culture and achievements they wanted to snuff out an emerging sentient race because they were too chicken sh*t to deal with their actions like adults.  I hold fully grown adults more responsible for their cowardice than I do what amounts to a child or animal being threatened by what is the equivalent to its parents and resorting to basic instinct.  Perhaps that dude in 12D should have stood up for what was right and demanded his government own up to it's mistake.  You know how adults are suppose to.  And the Geth develop morals by the time the Morning War ends because they spare the Quarians when they could have wiped them out.   However, the damage is already done to their development because of the Quarians.

And I will ask again, what did present day Quarians learn?  They attacked the Geth again instead of assisting allies. Basically the Quarians  of the past launched an unnecessary campaign of annihilation against the Geth and the Quarians of the present day did the same thing.  The present day Quarians are led by two Admirals Gherel and Xen who basically still think of the Geth as glorified toasters.  You are free to ignore that.  I don't.  300 years later and the Quarians are still doing the same dumb sh*t and the majority are still too scared to oppose their leaders.

As for the Council, the point to me is that every Cycle breeds this fear.  The reason the organics could currently stand up to the the Geth is because the Geth are not the real synthetic threat.  The real synthetic threat are the synthetics that would be created say 1,000 years from the current time if the Reapers didn't come to harvest.  That synthetic threat would be like the Reaper coded Geth because the point of the harvest is to prevent organics from advancing to the point that they create Super AI that are miles beyond the Geth.  We haven't seen that type of Super AI because the Reapers start Reaping before it can happen.  

Stop the Reaping and ease the council laws and what do you think happens when a synthetic race really takes off?  Organics will go back to being scared.  Hell maybe this Super AI does something to scare them.  The point though is this.  Organics don't automatically blame all other organics for each others crimes.  The Salarians don't say well the Krogan were a**holes so the humans will be too.  They understand that each organic species is different.  However, they naturally assume all synthetic life is the same so the minute one of them steps out of line they won't just deal with that one group, they will go back to assuming all synthetics are the same and punish all synthetics.  And without the Harvest they will come across some Super Ai that decides screw it, all organic life will pay for hating me.

Yes. There. Is.
By showing us one incident, we are forced to take the word of the at face value. And, knowing your extreme prejudice, you would not believe the recording if it was quarian based, would you? You think a geth recording, from a server overrun with Reaper code, from a single viewpoint, showing one single death, in a door-breach situation where said death may have, in all likelyhood, been completely accidental, is proof that the quarians mass murdered everyone that disagreed with the order? You really think that 99% of the quarian race - at least 2.1 billion people - were caused ny the quarians themselves, even when everyone else, the geth included, openly admit that they caused the death? Or the fact that the protests took place before the Morning War, and thus, were completely seperate from the death toll of the War?
Just think about these pretenses with some bit of logic, will you? Stop being so condesending to him when you are the one that clearly isn't looking at this from a non-biased perspective.

Also, what?
"Why not? Our fleet is massive. We can support Shepard's fight against the Old Machines.... If the Creators no longer threaten us." - Geth V.I., Rannoch.
That statement right there. That is the Geth V.I. blatently and un-subtley suggesting that they can be more valuble then the quarians, and to sacrifice them for the geth. And it's done so callously and uncaringly of the quarian's lives.
And again, if Legion never returns to the geth, then all geth are like the V.I. - uncaring of organics, unless it furthers their own goals. They are remorsefull of their past, but won't bat an eyelash to helping others. It's like how sociopaths can regret the loss of  life they take, but not the actual action the killing itself.
And AGAIN, they are branded as enemies of the free galaxy by the Council thanks to the Heretics, which the geth never claimed responcibility for until it was a problem for them. And again, it can be traced back to how the geth never bothered to communicate these feelings to the quarians and at least start a healing process.

And AGAIN, AS STATED MANY TIMES OVER, the quarians in their current state are a BURDEN to the turians and humans, because by lugging their civilians around with them, they would consume more resources then were avalible to give them, and be unable to tackle multiple fronts, and be unable to effectively manuver in battle as they would need to constantly huddle around the liveships, AND would suffer crippling blows to their race for every large ship that was lost.
To be of ANY help to the war effort, they would have had to suddenly and abruptly become completely self-sufficant. Not the survival-based day-to-day scavenger life they currently have. The only way to do that is to get a planet of their own. And Rannoch is the only world that is dextro-based that has breathable atmosphere that isn't lethel to them, and edible food that doesn't need to be made into oversterilized paste to eat, and untouched raw resources to use for their fleets.
So NO, the ONLY way they could be any helpfull part of the war is if they were self-sufficant again, and that's only possible if they reclaim their world. And because the geth are still branded as Reaper allies by the Council, attacking them actually WOULD be considered as aiding in the war effort. That only ever changes if the geth are saved/peace is achieved.

And AGAIN, the quarians had no choice, because they didn't want to bring the Council down on their heads. Their weren't in any position to defy them, so harsh scanctions or censorship would be devestating to their economy. Losing favor with the Council would have likely destroyed the quarian economy and plunged their entire sociaty into economic depression for who knows how many years it takes to get back into the good graces. Mr. 12D would be homeless and pennyless. And it would be even worse if the government admitted anything, as it gives legal grounds for lawsuits to be filed against them by the Council, devedtating them even further.
So YES, they had every reason to be afraid of the Council. It wasn't cowardly. Look at Mass Effect: Revelation, at how the Council chews out humanity for creating the Eliza A.I at Gagarain Station, and you'll understand that the ramafacations for an entire race of A.I.s would have been harsh.

And from the Heretics, present day quarians came to the conclusion that, based on what the Heretics (which are assumed to reperesent all geth) have done, that the geth are a threat to everything, and they are obligated to correct their mistake and end the geth.
NITHER time, it was unessesary. Circumstances drove them to desperation, as the alternitive was far worse from that viewpoint in time. You act like the quarians assumed this would happen to them. The many posts by me and DenyonSlayer detail why the quarians were forced into the choices they took, no differently then how the geth were forced into their deal with the Reapers. If you can sympathise with a race joing the Reapers, then surely you can sympathise with a race doing what it did to survive the Reapers.
And AGAIN, wrong. The fleet does nothing without the coberating opinoions of the Admiralty Board, and the Conclave - a quarian senete where every ship has a represenitive, and a say. And the war would not be possible, unless a majority of the Conclave agreed with the decision to go to war. So NO, they weren't oppresed. They chose to attack because it was the only way they could get a world and be able to be self-sufficant enough to aid the other races against the Reapers.

And you continue to ignore that it takes two to tango. Faults in BOTH organic and synthetic created the conflect. Thus far you have ignored over 40+ pages of information on the quarian's circumstances, mking your opinion diffinitively prejudiced since you blatently ignore cannon-backed information.
And did you listen to the Dalatrass. Calling the krogan ****s is basically exactally what they do verbatium, and humans too based on the reckless behavior they had pre-contact with opening every relay they saw. The turians did too, compairing them to krogan.

#1112
Dude_in_the_Room

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B/c I wanted to romance Tali.

I intend on remedying that tommorow night when I get to that part on this, my second playthrough.

#1113
Da Don Giovanni

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silverexile17s wrote...

This is a timeline I compiled of the quarian/geth schisim's timeline, used a while ago in another post. I'm hoping it shows that nither side is deserving of hate in the war.

1)The quarians created the geth for cheep labor. Reason: a natural advancement in automation of labor. We humans are trying to do so all the time, so you can't fault the quarians for creating the geth.

2)The eth begin to develop self-awareness. Reason: they're programming allowed self-optimization so that they could easily adapt to multiple situations without needing constant creator imput. They became self-aware as they linked themselves together, and shared they're experiences.

3)The quarians discover evidence of the geth bordering on senticance through their questions of existance. This causes the quarians to panic. Reason: Council law prohibits the creation and development of A.I.s without the
direct consent of the Council itself. If this it true, and the geth are sentiant, the Council will likely place harsh sanctions on the quarians, if not outright censorship. This would be a harsh blow to the quarian economy.

4)The quarians hide this information from the Council to keep them off their backs, while trying to desperately re-program the geth, hoping that their perceved sentiance is either a mistake in readings, or a fault that can be corrected. Reason: The geth were not seen as anything more then simple tools at the time, so their reprogramming was not considered anything more then putting a new OS on acomputer.

5)The quarians fail to halt the development of the geth. Desperate, they order all geth to forcibly be shut down. Reason: They are scared of a Council reprasial, and naturally, some of the quarians are confused at this, and ask why this is nessessary. They likely do not comply with the shut-down order at first. And likewise, the geth ignore the shutdown commnads, having developed farther and faster then expected.

6)a group of quarians resists the order, protesting that the geth can't be decomissioned for asking simple questions, and that quarian sociaty needs the geth to help advance. The quarian government responds to this by placing martial law on their terrotories. Reason: They do not need protests in the streets, as that will only serve to draw attention to their perdeciment and possibly alert the Council to the geth problem. Between fear of the Council and of what will happen when the geth realize they are being abused, the last thing the quarians need is pressure from their own people.

7)The quarian protesters are eventually disbanded, but the quarian government, now on the verge of full panic, from both the constant threat of discovery by the Council, and believing that the geth will retaliate to the failed attempt to shut them down, order them to be destroyed. Reason: The geth, having resisted shutdown, are likely on the cusp of sentiance, if not there already. The quarians must either kill them now, or face the wrath of the Council for their accedntal creations.

8)The quarians initiate the Morning War, attempting to kill the geth. Reason: The quarians have no choice, for if the truth of the geth's sentiance reaches the Council, the quarians will have even more problems to worry over. Also, they hoped the geth were still just at the brink of sentiance, and therefore could be brought down. Also, to sooth the ethical side, if the geth weren't setiant yet, then there was no qualm about killing them. Eevn then, there would be no real proof that the geth were really alive, or just phantomimeing life. The quarians had no clue that the geth were already sentiant, and were not mimicing life, but were actually alive.

9)The geth are attacked, and retaliate, assaulting the other as hard as possible. Reason: The geth are still in their infancy, and do not understand the reasons of the quarians's assault. They in turn panic, lashing out at the quarians as hard as possible to drive them back, no longer caring about civilian casulaties, as survival of geth is now prioritized over survival of quarians.

10)The geth retaliation is largely successful, as several quarian worlds, such as Haestrom, fall early in the war. (see Haestrom's discription for proof, as "one of the first worlds to fall.") The quarians retaliate in turn. Reason: In the wake of the geth's defense and subsiquent counterattacks, the quarians are sent realing, and, now that the geth have stopped caring about civilian casualites in favor of their own self-preservation, any concerns about the geth being unfairly treated disolve, and the quarians unite as a whole against the geth. The Morning War becomes a bloody war of survival, with nither side having any plans to relent until the other is soundly defeated.

11)The Morning War qucikly escalates, with both sides inflicting deep wounds on each-other that will infulence their future actions. Reason: The toxin damage from the Morning War that the geth continue to clean up could only be the fallout of chemcal weapons, which are the only things that could leave fallout that the geth are continueing to clean up after 300 years. It also makes no sense for the quarians to use, as damaging the delacate environment of their worlds would be detremental to their own recovery, presuming they won the war. As well as that, being desinged for labor that was too tedious or dangerous for the quarians themselves, the geth would be immune to chemical warfare. Only the geth could effectively use such weapons, which would be supremely effective against the fragile immune systems of the quarians. Likewise, it wouldn't surprise me if the quarians used sestimic viral attacks to delete and destroy hundreds upon hundreds of geth programs.

12) The Morning War begins to come to a head when the geth systemically drive the quarians back world by world, forcing them back to Tikkun. Reason: The geth's platforms were nonescental to them, and easily replacible, therefore the geth could hurl themselves in droves at the quarians in "suicide attack" patterns with impunity. The quarians, between the chem warfare and the geth forces that seemingly lacked any self-preservation in face-to-face combat, were slaughtered in the millions upon millions.

13) The geth attack the Tikkun System, assaulting every quarian world in sight, even seemingly unimportant  worlds like the mining colony of Adas. Reason: The quarians have been classed as the primary threat to geth existance. To ensure the threat is neutrlized completely, the geth not only target the quarians, but the infrastructure for their economy, military, and government, to ensure they never recover.

14)After a full year of sustained warfare, the Morning War ends with the geth overrunning Rannoch, forcing the last tattered remnants of the quarian fleet to evacuate the planet and flee for their lives. The geth do not persue after them. Reason: The geth, still in their infancy, are left unable to calculate the ramafacations of an act of complete genocode. Regardless of this, with their government in shambles, and the collective backbone of their econonmy and military broken, the quarians are no longer classed as a threat to geth existance.

15)The geth consolidate resources in the Tikkun system to begin work on a Dyson Bubble - a massive interlocking "web" of solar collection satillites that will completely encircle Rannoch's star (Tikkun). Reason: Unknown why Tikkun was the chosen system. Perhaps they simply didn't want to abandon their "nest" after haven driven their "parents" out, and felt oblidged to fill the gap left behind, in rememberance of the quarians they killed in their mad panic to survive. Although, this implies a sentimentality that the geth aren't believed to exibit till well after the first century after the war, althouth this in turn is speculatory. The web of satllites will power a massive
information networlk hub sowen into the Dyson Bubble that will unite all geth into a single interlocking community, where no geth will need ever be alone, or afarid, again. The disadvantage of this is that a Dyson Bubble is an imobile construct, and unless the star itself is made mobile, the geth are forever stuck in the Tikkun system. Even if the star was made mobile (unlikely) Rannoch would die as a result of the loss of it's star. In fact, the loss of such a massive amount of solar energy, absorbed by the megastructure well before it could ever reach Rannoch, would be detremental to the plante's ecology, as without the primary mamals (quarians) to help them repopulate, the plant life will be strained to the brink.

16)The quarians, broken and beaten, finally come clean to the Council about the geth. The Council is furious, but places higher concern on the possible geth threat. They assemble a fleet to blockade the Perceus Vail in  preperation for a geth attack. Reason: After the near-genocide of the quarians, there is no reason to believe they will see any other organic life as any less of a threat. But the geth never come out of the Veil. The geth do not wish to waste time on sensless death of organic and synthetic alike, because they don't see how anyone is bettered by it, or how attacking will aid any of their goals, as if the geth attack, it will force others to attack in turn. The geth know all too well the chain reaction of retaliating after being attacked, and do not wish to repeat their own war by mimicing the quarians attack. And by further contrast, the sight of a blockade right on their doorstep only further discourages the geth from wanting anything to do with the rest of the galaxy, as they bascially decide it's like stepping out the door just to have a shotgun pointed at your head as a greeting.

17)With the geth seemingly unwilling to come outside the Veil, the quarians demand that the Council go in and drive the geth out, for several reasons. (a) the geth are unshackled A.I.'s, and potentally dangerous to leave be, (B) already have more then enough (assumed) antiginism to organics from the Morning War, © the quarians wish for  justice and/or revenge for the slaughter of their race, and (d) their species is physiologically dependant on Rannoch's plant life, which will affect their species negitively the longer they are away from it.
The Council is however furious and ignore the quarians pleas, blaming them for: (a) creating the geth, (B) not managing them closely enough, and © attacking them without going to the Council for advisement on the situation. They therefore decide that the quarians have no right to request anything for their "mistakes" and ban them from the Citadel Conventions, effectively rendering them an exiled race - the first race exiled from the Council Government since the krogan, and followed by the batarians 300 years later. The geth in turn decide that organics are not worth the trouble, or risk in general, of contacting, and completely isolate themselves from the galaxy.

18) The quarians are forced into a treaty saying they will not provoke the geth into coming out of the Veil again, forever damning them from ever being able to reclaim their homewolrd until the Council feels like allowing  it, and are reduced to nomads living day-to-day in the battered remains of their fleet, unable to live without their suits.
Meanwhile, the geth, strictly enforcing their isolation, shoot down any and all ships that enter the Perceus Vail, including the multiple unarmed diplomatic ships, believing that no peace talks could ever bear fruit. This isolation costs them the opportunity to ever try and make ammends with the rest of the galaxy, as they were too afarid to take the risk and see what happens if they tried. Just as Mordin Solus sterilized the krogan over predictions of maybe, but not what diffinitively happens, so to did the geth let the entire galaxy hate them based on their own perdections.

19) The quarians make repeated attempts to find a new world, but are either forced out every time by pirates, Terminus Factions, or the Council. Few worlds have the Dextro-based life that they need, or an ecosystem that matches Rannoch's at all. At least one that hasn't been claimed by the turians. Ekuna is one such world, where they are threatened by the Council at gunpoint off a world they discovered. They eventually lose hope of finding a world that can replace Rannoch.

20) 300 years after the end of the Morning War, the geth's isolation is broken by Sovergien and Saren. Sovergien offers the geth a choice: help it to defeat the organic races, and it will grant them a Reaper Body for them to upload into. A quick shortcut compaired to their Dyson Bubble.
The majority of gteh decide that they must, like always, walk their own path, and will not accept "handouts,"  refusing Sovergien's offer. However, 7% of the geth accept. The "True" Geth exile them, calling them "Heretics," but yet, allow the Heretics to leave with Sovergien, knowing full well what will happen to organic life should they succed. To them, organic life isn't a major concern in comparison to their own goals. As long as their own objectives remain uncomprimised, they couldn't give a damn. They tried in the Morning War with the quarians protesters and it got them nowhere, so why bother with other organic's well being now?

21) With seemingly no provocation, the Geth Heretcis assault Eden Prime, killing hundreds, if not thousands, of
humans. Civilians and military personel alike. The Council is thrown for a loop by this, even more so when their prized best Spectre is revealed to be the perpetrator of the event. In retaliation, the Alliance declares an active state of war with the geth, backed by the Council after Saren's implication is uncovered.
This is a pivital moment for the quarians, as not only do the quarians now feel justified in premptively attacking the geth during the Morning War, but it basically renders the treaty the Council forced on them - against provoking the geth - now completely redundant. With the Alliance and Council declaring war on the geth, it means that the quarians could (if they were able to) plow through the geth right back to Rannoch and the Council wouldn't give a
damn. In fact, they figure they might even get medals for it. This is likely where Rael'Zorah and Han'Gerrel begin drawing up the prelimanary plans for the re-taking of Rannoch. Gerrel, not knowing about the Heretic split, would believe that this proves the quarians right about geth hostilaty, and that they will become a threat to everyone, and
likely treates it as a personal duty to "fix their past mistakes." It gives all quarians hope that they can finally have the chance to return home, now that the Council have willingly declared "open season" on the geth. By contrast, Zaal'Koris is lilely mortified by the Heretics, and probably feels that the harsh treatment the quarians gave the geth in the Morning War spurned them to hate, and therfore attack other races, and that the geth's actions are on the quarians shoulders.

22) The Heretics are defeated at the Battle of the Citadel. Tali'Zorah nar Rayya returns trihumphant aganst the geth, basically becoming a hero among the quarians, and joins the ship of her father's close friend, Han'Gerrel vas Neema. The Council, in retaliation for the assault on the Citadel, declare the geth as enemies of the free galaxy. This basically amounts to "if you see a geth, shoot to kill."
The Heretics continue operations agains the galaxy, and the True Geth become intrested in Shepard. The organic who killed the Heretics "God." Curious, they create a prototype geth platform, and send it out to find and study Shepard, and organics at large, now for the first time in years taking an active interest in the galaxy at large.

23) The geth platform visits Eden Prime, and is promptly shot. However, instead of repairing the damage to it's chest, continues exploring, for reasons unknown. Shepard is killed by the Collectors, where the prototype platorm ends it's search at the wreck of the Normandy on Alchera. It recovers Shepard's chestplate and, possibly out of a sense of admiration for the Commanders actions, straps it onto itself. The True Geth subsiquently continue cursuroy studies into organics, through the platform, and through satilite observation and extranet searches. Meanwhile, Rael'Zorah continues development of a sestimic viral system that can assault the geth.

24) Shepard is resurrected by Cerberus. The geth discover that the Heretics are planning to attack them with a virus that will brainwash them, and now finally resolve to focus on the Heretics as a threat. Rael'Zorah continues work on the weapon and, after Tali's transfer to the Normandy,loses control of the geth test subjects and is subsequently killed. The Migrant Fleet discovers the geth presance, which once again re-ignites the debate on whether or not to reclam Rannoch, or continue looking for a new world. Meanwhile, the geth platform heads to the Reaper Corpse to recover and study Reaper technology, so as to be able to effectivly interface with the quantum black box Sovergien gave the Heretcis, whihc contains the Heretic's virus. The geth is (assumed to be) rescued by Shepard, who (along with EDI) name the platofrm "Legion."

25) Tali's trial ends, and the quarians continue debates, as well as try to figure out who will replace Rael'Zorah on the Admiralty Board. The geth,learning of positive experances with organics through Legion's time with Shepard, begin to debate on weather or not their ioslation was benifecial. Shepard is made aware of the Heretic split and aids Legion in it's resolution.

26) Shepard makes reports to Alliance HQ about the geth after the Commander willingly submits to Alliance judgement after the Suicide Mission. However, the Commanders Cerberus Ties, the sensitive issue regarding the Alpha Relay incident and the Batarian Hegemony's threats of war, and the Commander's continued assertations about the Reapers, all render Shepard's word as innadmissable as evidence of the geth being a friendly, or even netural faction. So the State of War with the geth is not recinded. Legion and Tali maintain communications, whith Tali offering the prospect of peace to the Admiralty Board.
Gerrel sees no reason to trust the geth - still
listed as galactic enemy #1- at their word. Xen refuses to see the geth as living beings with such a level of free will, believing the geth are only saying such things for self-preservation. Raan is sceptical that the geth and quarians could ever achieve reunification with all the bad blood between their respective races. Only Koris is willing to take the risk, believing that both races have suffered under each-others hate for long enough. However, before any negotiaons can come to a head, Legion returns to geth space and cuts all contact with Tali, to aid the geth in their personal preperations, leaving the prospect unfulfilled as Tali is unable to reconnect with Legion.

27) The Reaper War begins. The quarians are left desperate by their arrival. They cannot fight the Reapers while defending over 15-16 million civilians. They cannot split the fleet to aid in multiple fronts, as, in their current situation, the fleet is incapable of being seperated, since the combat ships rely on raw materials from the civilian fleet, which likewise relies on the combat ships for protection. There is no where else for their civilians to go, as the only worlds that can support them are dextro-worlds, which the turians own almost all of. And since they are all either under attack, or already filled past capasity, there is no turian colony that is actively able to take 15-16 million civilians that all have strict health and diatary needs. The ONLY way the quarians have any chance to survive, as well as aid the other races, is if they suddenly became self-sufficant. To do that, they need a stable power base, and a near-constant supply of resources and food. Also, having an atmosphere that won't kill them in the instance of a suit breach would be nice too. There is only one world in the known galaxy that fits all these requirements: Rannoch.
And it is conviently held by a race that is still listed as "At War" by the Council, and is now on the watch-list as Reaper Allies. It's everything the quarians could ever need, with nothing preventing them from doing so. Daro'Xen finishes the incomplete viral weapon designed by Rael'Zorah, and the quarians tear through four of the geth controled systems, pushing through to Rannoch.
The geth, by contrast, make preperations for war. However, given the many unknown factors, the geth do not activally partake in the war, instead building up to survive on their own. As before, self-preservation becomes the
central goal, as there is no assurances that lending assisatnce to other organic races will be benifical to them in the long run, and if they stay out of sight, the Reapers might pass them over. They were likely preparing for the possible war, but not activally planning to go on the march alongside organics. However, a Reaper arrived on Rannoch well before the quarians arrived at the system. This is where the geth were offered the chance to join up with the Reapers. As the geth are pondering the ramafacations, pros and cons of said proposition, the quarians attack them. The geth, now seeing the quarians as a permenant threat in light of the attack, lable the quarians as too dangerous to them to leave alive a second time, and commit themselves to wiping quarians out for good this time.The Second Quarian/Geth War begins.

28) The geth are unable to counter the quarian's "viral flash-bang," and the quarians breach the geth's defenses and besiege the Megastructure, causing massive damage. The geth, blinded from Xen's viral attacks and pushed to the brink by the flash lobotomy that the megastructure's attack was to them, are dirven to utter desperation. Wanting nothing more then to live, they accept the offer the Reapers give them to join up. An ironic notion, as desperation to live through the purge of the Reapers was what drove the quarians to attack the geth and attempt to re-take Rannoch. From here, the geth counter the quarians swiftly, now immune to the quarians viral weapon. They blockade the Tikkun Relay and entrap the quarian fleet, with the Reapers seeming to not want the quarians dead, but conatined, for a convient harvest later on.

29) Commander Shepard is brought in by the quarians to end the war, meeting thanks to a quarian prototype stealth ship. Shepard leads a strike on the Geth Dreadnought that serves as the flagship of the Rannoch fleet. The flagship is disabled and Legion, captive as a signal booster to control all geth everywhere, is freed, and disables the ship so that Shepard can escape, and to save both the quarians outside, and potentally end the   Reaper control of other geth. Gerrel, seeing that the dreadnough is down, decides that this is the perfect chance to destroy a major future threat, with little to no possibilaty of being able to have this chance again. Gerrel opens fire on the ship, destroying it.
Legion later reveals that the Reapers have a "short-range base" on Rannoch, indicating that the Reapers have effectively lost control of all other geth besides the ones in the Tikkun system. However, this means that the blockade around the Tikkun Relay is still intact, and the fleet still stranded. So either way, the Reaper Base on Rannoch must be delt with.

30) Shepard leads a final strike on the Reaper controling the geth on Rannoch. The second Quarian/Geth War ends.


I still believe Geth > Quarians.

#1114
NCommand

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Where exactly again is it mentioned that the Geth are cleaning up the after effects of chemical weapon use? Would explain how the Geth managed to reduce the Quarian population from several billion to 17 million

#1115
DeinonSlayer

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NCommand wrote...

Where exactly again is it mentioned that the Geth are cleaning up the after effects of chemical weapon use? Would explain how the Geth managed to reduce the Quarian population from several billion to 17 million

ME2. "We maintain mobile platforms to clear rubble and toxins from the Morning War." This is right before Legion starts describing similar actions taken by humans, at Wadi us-Salaam, Tyne Cot, Rookwood, Arlington, Piskarevskoye... Auschwitz-Birkenau.

The use of present-tense tells us it's an ongoing effort. The war in which these "toxins" were used was three centuries ago.

Also @Remydat, calling on their government to "own up" will simply bring the Council down on their heads to shut the Geth down for them, in all likelihood with more collateral damage than what the Quarian government tried to do by itself. They're a Council Associate race. Even if their government acted in defiance of Council law, they're powerless to change it. Mr. 12D never committed any offense against the Geth. Is he supposed to prioritize the safety of the maybe-AI which could drop his car out of the sky tomorrow just to see what it looks like over the safety of his own family? You act like the Quarians categorically deserved death unless they found a sword to throw themselves on for the sake of the accidental AI which ultimately, mercilessly, slaughtered them with no regard for those who made the effort on their behalf.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 19 mars 2013 - 02:09 .


#1116
Red Dust

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You destroy the Geth, you destroy a bunch of 1's and 0's.
You destroy the Quarians, you destroy ships full of frightened women and children.

Geth may have a soul, but Quarins definitely do have one.

#1117
vonfantasy

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I'm on my first ME3 playthrough and luckily I could choose peace between both races. But if I had to choose I would choose the Quarians, they're not synthetics and the geth do not have Tali :)

I would also say, if you kill the quarians you kill of an entire race of living organic culture with a unique language while the geth are "just" bulid up of binary codes. One can argue that the geth may create a new culture and that they already have a language. But I think that's debatable...

If you kill the quarians, you kill a living culture
If you kill the geth, you delete a binary code

Modifié par vonfantasy, 19 mars 2013 - 01:58 .


#1118
George Costanza

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On the plus side, Destroy is a lot easier to choose once the Geth are already dead.

#1119
Guest_Finn the Jakey_*

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Red Dust wrote...

You destroy the Geth, you destroy a bunch of 1's and 0's.
You destroy the Quarians, you destroy ships full of frightened women and children.

Geth may have a soul, but Quarins definitely do have one.

I was just going to say this.

We can all agree the Quarians are 'alive'
Whether or not the Geth however, are 'alive' is still highly debatable.

Quarians, by default, have the greater right to life in this situation. Yes its entirely possible the Geth are alive, but we have absolutely nothing in real life to compare them to, so we can never know.

Modifié par Finn the Jakey, 19 mars 2013 - 01:55 .


#1120
DoomsdayDevice

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Side with the Quarians.

Geth upgraded with Reaper code is a disaster waiting to happen.

I don't understand how people can think it will all be fine.

#1121
Auld Wulf

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@remydat

I think you're expecting too much reason from them.

Let's look at the empirical evidence, though.

In ME3:

- We're told that the geth peacefully left Rannoch to the quarians.
- We're told that the geth moved away from Rannoch in a mass exodus to build a megastructure in space.
- We are also told that the megastructure had no weapons and barely any defences at all.
- We are told that Gerrel ordered the megastructure to be carpet bombed.
- We are told that this carpet bombing met with no resistance, due to the lack of defences.
- We are told that the quarians killed most of the geth who attempted to retrieve geth programs from the ruins of the megastructure.
- We are told that very few programs were saved.
- We are told that the geth are then chased back to Rannoch by Gerrel.
- We're told that the geth were so harshly reduced in numbers that they were terrified of extinction, and they were so terrified of organics at this point that they felt their only option was the old machines.

Furthermore:

- We are shown that the quarian civilians sympathised with the geth.
- We are shown that the Morning War is a war with the quarian civilians and the geth on one side, and the quarian military on another.
- We are shown that the quarian military happily killed off the quarian civilian uprising just to spite the geth.
- We are shown that when the quarian military finally decides to get smart and run, the geth happily allow them to.

And also:

- We are told that Gerrel ordered guns to be strapped to liveships.
- We are told that these liveships have no increased shields or structural stability, that they are basically 'glass cannons.'
- We are told that if the liveships weren't being forced to attack the geth, the geth would not see them as hostile targets, and would not have attacked them.

Not to mention:

- Gerrel orders the quarians to shoot at a geth dreadnought whilst Shepard is still on it, showing a gross disregard for life.

Oh, and then there's:

- All the times that Xen petitions you to hand over Legion and to help enslave the geth.

I'm sorry, but according to lore and canon, the only truly evil ones are the quarian military. Even in present day they continue to exploit the civilians. I think people who'd defend the quarian military are every bit as evil as the quarian military.

If it was my choice, I'd shove their military out of an airlock so that the geth and the quarian civilians could have their happily ever after.

Edit: And I know I'm right. A lady friend of mine has been recently playing ME3 and streaming. The quarian/geth missions are the ones she most recently did. And we were both equally disgusted by the quarian military. As any ethical person would naturally be. Any ethical person, I stress.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 19 mars 2013 - 02:26 .


#1122
DeinonSlayer

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Auld Wulf, I'd address your points, but it's already been done many times before and I know you'll just ignore it and toss a couple of self-righteous insults my way anyway.

#1123
Auld Wulf

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

Auld Wulf, I'd address your points, but it's already been done many times before and I know you'll just ignore it and toss a couple of self-righteous insults my way anyway.

Uh-huh. Defensive and paranoid, much? And I'd disregard you (with amusement) because I talk in regards to canon, fresh in my mind. I don't want to have to deal with your headcanon about the glorious, saintly quarian military. A point which is directly contradicted by the game.

So, whatevs guy.

#1124
vonfantasy

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Auld Wulf wrote...


I'm sorry, but according to lore and canon, the only truly evil ones are the quarian military. Even in present day they continue to exploit the civilians. I think people who'd defend the quarian military are every bit as evil as the quarian military.

If it was my choice, I'd shove their military out of an airlock so that the geth and the quarian civilians could have their happily ever after.

Edit: And I know I'm right. A lady friend of mine has been recently playing ME3 and streaming. The quarian/geth missions are the ones she most recently did. And we were both equally disgusted by the quarian military. As any ethical person would naturally be. Any ethical person, I stress.


But is there a choice to just kill off the Quarian military? If you choose the geth you also kill off all quarian civilians .

Modifié par vonfantasy, 19 mars 2013 - 02:32 .


#1125
DeinonSlayer

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Auld Wulf wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Auld Wulf, I'd address your points, but it's already been done many times before and I know you'll just ignore it and toss a couple of self-righteous insults my way anyway.

Uh-huh. Defensive and paranoid, much? And I'd disregard you (with amusement) because I talk in regards to canon, fresh in my mind. I don't want to have to deal with your headcanon about the glorious, saintly quarian military. A point which is directly contradicted by the game.

So, whatevs guy.

Thank you for proving my point.