4712 réponses à ce sujet

[silverexile17s]

Ryzaki wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
What reason would they have to NOT mimic Reaper tech. Give me ONE cannonicly-stated example that proves Shepard's implants were Reaper-tech based. JUST ONE. Besides a visual comparason, because being the same on the outside means NOTHING if the tech is fundementally different. Besides, Shepard's implants don't make his eyes glow BLUE. Last I checked, Reaper tech had a BLUE GLOW with WIREFRAME marks, as shown by husks, cerberus soldiers - EVERYONE ever implanted with it. Not red, raggad scaring.
So in thruth, the implants DON'T look the same at all.

And look at Eva with the artifical skin that the unit is SUPPOSED to have.
Or better yet, the Shepard CLONE. It looks like Shepard, but it's NOT.


And NO. That DOESN'T count as Reaper tech. It's based on Reaper tech. It's made from copying Reaper tech. But isn't actually MADE from Reaper tech.

"Just acting like you, bucko,":devil:

Why would they have any reason to mimic Reaper tech? Unless they're doing what they did with the Thannix...in which case it's still Reaper tech. They just modified it.

Alright. Tell me 1 tech better than Reaper tech in the mass effect galaxy. I'll wait. Because Jacob clearly says Shep was built with the best technology available. And...last I checked that was Reaper tech. (of course he didn't say it flat out because Shep would've had a hysteria reaction). Shep's implants don't make his/her eyes glow blue no. Mostly because if he/she is calm the eyes over it (or whatever is covering the cybernetics) is safely there. Where's if he/she is renegade for some bizarre reasoning the scars go into hyperdrive.

Also Shep's eyes glow blue in control and I believe Synthesis ending when the flesh is peeled away (if they don't turn green for some bizarro reason there).  So...explain that one.

Sovereign glowed red buddy. Harbinger was gold. Saren's eyes I believe were more purple than blue but that migh've been my monitor. In which case you're right reaper implants on husks and the like are constantly blue.

Shepard clone really? Shep's clone is supposed to look identical to Shepard because for all intents and purposes it is Shepard. They needed it for spare body parts. It looking different would ruin the whole point. There's no point to Shep's cybernetics looking like Reaper tech (especially considering the only time you see them is if you're full renegade or picking control/synthesis). As for why they glow red? Only character that has them red is a very angry renegade Shep. Could be all that stress and bloodflow.

You're still going on about a infilitration bot meaning the AI looks like a human? It's a infilitration unit. Of course it looks like a human. That's what it was designed for.

Why aren't they red during control and synthesis? Instead of the blue/blue green we see it as?

If you copy tech it's no longer that tech now?

So if I copy a computer and it functions exactly the same...the second thing isn't a computer? What?

On Sanctuary those husks and whatnot despite being created by TIM instead of the Reapers were still Reaper tech you realize yes? Just because you copy technology doesn't suddenly make it something new and original.

Uhg. NO. It's not made with Reaper parts. It mimics the function, but it's NOT Reaper tech. Just an imitation. It's based off Reaper Tech, but isn't made with actuall Reaper parts.

And the best tech avalible to the KNOWN galaxy. Reaper tech isn't COUNTED in the galaxy because no one believes in them. Besides, what you are doing is nothing but headcannon, as there is absolutly nothing that links the Lazarus Project with Reaper tech. Besides, Miranda tells you all about the tech, and never mentions it. Dr. Chakwas repeatedly examins you and never calls the implants Reaper tech. There is absolutly NOTHING that makes any connection with the implants and Reaper tech.

And WRONG again. Eevn if full paragon, then in the End sequence of ME3, when the commander gets hit by Harbinger's beams, the implant's are STILL red under the skin. So alingment has absolutly nothing to do with the color of those implants.

And WRONG. Sovergien glowed BLUE. The LIGHTING/ ELECTRICITY around it was red, from the mass effect field surrounding it. The actuall lights, if you look at an image of it were, you guessed it, BLUE.

And look at the mental differences. They look the same but are NOT the same.

And NO. they don't glow at all in the Control.Synthesis endings. They are dim grey. And simply placeholder stuff for the eye patterns. IDK if you realized, buy ME3 had a bit of a lazy development cycle.

And the point is that it looks like a Human, but underneath, it's completely different.

And the Synthesis is created using the epitimy of space magic to disperse it's particals. Try and explain to me at all how Synthesis is possible to begin with, and THEN I'll see on working out coloring. But in all likelyhood, it was green for the sake of having a different color in the endings.

And if you look at a plan you drew up by looking at something, then used totally different parts and software to build it, then it works like the orginal thing you based it off of, but it isn't the same tech. It's just copyed.

[remydat]

dafangirl wrote...

The rachni encountered on Noveria in ME1 are innocent of any wrongdoing, just as the Geth are in that same analogy, if the same rules of growing up in isolation, not knowing right from wrong are applied.

I don't agree with that type of logic, but it is logical nonetheless.

That is the difference here.  I encountered them.  I had to decide then and there to kill or be killed.  So I killed.  The Morning War is over.  There is no decision I have to make regarding the Geth because when I encountered the they had already killed the Quarians 300 years ago.  What do you want me to do about it now?

[Ryzaki]

silverexile17s wrote...

Uhg. NO. It's not made with Reaper parts. It mimics the function, but it's NOT Reaper tech. Just an imitation. It's based off Reaper Tech, but isn't made with actuall Reaper parts.

Actual Reaper parts are eezo and metals. Things you know...could be replicated. The only part of a Reaper that *couldn't* be replicated you realize is the organic slushie part. You know the bit that's probably a Reaper's brain? That's the only bit of a Reaper that can't be created from things the known galaxy already has (as shown by the Collectors building baby Reaper in the omega 4 relay).(well techically it could but no one in their right mind would attempt to do so.)

If you're mimicking something completely to the fact that you're using the exact same materials...at that point it's Reaper tech.

If TIM had copied the HR from the Omega 4 relay and made a new one but complete? He'd made a Reaper using Reaper tech. (or at least a reaper shell. I like to think TIM wouldn't have put in the organic slushie part. I hope).

And the best tech avalible to the KNOWN galaxy. Reaper tech isn't COUNTED in the galaxy because no one believes in them. Besides, what you are doing is nothing but headcannon, as there is absolutly nothing that links the Lazarus Project with Reaper tech. Besides, Miranda tells you all about the tech, and never mentions it. Dr. Chakwas repeatedly examins you and never calls the implants Reaper tech. There is absolutly NOTHING that makes any connection with the implants and Reaper tech.

All of this is just wat.

First off "no one believes in them?" Again what? Really what? Did you read what you just wrote? Cerberus flat out says they believe in the Reapers several times. Shepard and his/her crew believe in em. This isn't a one time situation.

Miranda does not tell you all about the tech. If she does please link that conversation because all I got from her was a "I rebuilt you from scratch." not a technical explanation. Dr. Chakwas has about as much experience as Reaper tech as Hackett does if not less. She's a medbay doctor not a scientist she'd know enough if it was threatening Shep's health or not yes but whether it was Reaper tech? 

And WRONG again. Eevn if full paragon, then in the End sequence of ME3, when the commander gets hit by Harbinger's beams, the implant's are STILL red under the skin. So alingment has absolutly nothing to do with the color of those implants.

Uh...no they aren't. At all. Watch the vid you don't even see Shep's implants til control/synthesis if he/she is a paragon. Maybe you got the blood cuts confused with implants.

Only time you EVER see any of Shep's implants if he/she is a paragon is during the control/synthesis choices. Otherwise it's just really badly animated blood.

And WRONG. Sovergien glowed BLUE. The LIGHTING/ ELECTRICITY around it was red, from the mass effect field surrounding it. The actuall lights, if you look at an image of it were, you guessed it, BLUE.

And when he controlled Saren through his implants? 

Saren glowed RED. His image during his "you are nothing" speech? RED. That electricity was red yep. The blue glow was from EEZO. (which Reapers have to have hordes off to move/attack).

Harbinger does the same but with gold. Blue glow? EEZO. You'll notice the blue glow when they're moving..which is exactly when there eezo core would be working hardest.

And look at the mental differences. They look the same but are NOT the same.

And NO. they don't glow at all in the Control.Synthesis endings. They are dim grey. And simply placeholder stuff for the eye patterns. IDK if you realized, buy ME3 had a bit of a lazy development cycle.

I just watched both endings. They're blue. They're not grey. They're blue. They're not glowing to be fair but it's blue.

And the point is that it looks like a Human, but underneath, it's completely different.

And it was made to look like a human to infiltrated. Shep's implants have NO REASON to look like Reaper implants. None. Nadda. Zero.

And the Synthesis is created using the epitimy of space magic to disperse it's particals. Try and explain to me at all how Synthesis is possible to begin with, and THEN I'll see on working out coloring. But in all likelyhood, it was green for the sake of having a different color in the endings.

And if you look at a plan you drew up by looking at something, then used totally different parts and software to build it, then it works like the orginal thing you based it off of, but it isn't the same tech. It's just copyed.

I'm not getting into the validity of synthesis because I believe you on the space magic bit. But...

No it's blue I checked. Control and synthesis have the same color blue eyes that are a pretty dim version of TIM's.

It doesn't use different parts and software. (Not to mention the thanix probably wouldn't even have software). It uses the same eezo like core, the same basic bits.

TIM did the same thing with his husk copies...they're still Reaper tech. He had to use a mimicked Reaper control wave to control them.

And no there were no dragon's teeth were the husks were being made. They were being made in test tubes from obviously mimicked Reaper tech. I simply assume he did the same with those Rachni and the Banshees.

And this'll go on forever.

Even if you don't believe Shep has a reaper enhanced body point stands he has a Reaper enhanced Shep and a Reaper enhanced AI and is riding around freely with them so him crying about the geth using Reaper tech is still vastly hypocritical.

He is running around with the Reaper IFF in his ship. And that's defintely 100% ORIGINAL Reaper tech.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 mars 2013 - 09:57 .

[DeinonSlayer]

remydat wrote...

dafangirl wrote...

The rachni encountered on Noveria in ME1 are innocent of any wrongdoing, just as the Geth are in that same analogy, if the same rules of growing up in isolation, not knowing right from wrong are applied.

I don't agree with that type of logic, but it is logical nonetheless.

That is the difference here.  I encountered them.  I had to decide then and there to kill or be killed.  So I killed.  The Morning War is over.  There is no decision I have to make regarding the Geth because when I encountered the they had already killed the Quarians 300 years ago.  What do you want me to do about it now?

The VI lines up to do the exact same thing again. Only difference is, it's more articulate about it. By abetting it in doing this again, you aren't rehabilitating the Geth of anything - this, if anything, reinforces their sociopathy. You're killing millions of people who already knew better than to try to kill the Geth, who felt guilty about what was done to them despite having no personal hand in it generations after the fact. You're killing them, along with their children who have zero say or understanding of what's happening, because they were carried along for the ride against their will, because there was nowhere else to go in a galaxy under siege. All of this, because you're hoping against reason that the Geth can be turned into something more civilized over time. The very act of killing the Quarians is counterproductive to civilizing the Geth, just as the Quarians (the ones who don't already know better, anyway) learn nothing from their past if they destroy the Geth. One side has the head start. The other has no ethics in relation to other species beyond self-preservation.

[Phatose]

I really feel bad for the "Reaper tech is evil" people.

You should see the apartment I've got on the ancient Reaper base that exists for the sole purpose of allowing the Reapers to easily cut off the heads of the Galactic Government. It's got a hot tub.

[Khelish]

Phatose wrote...

I really feel bad for the "Reaper tech is evil" people.

You should see the apartment I've got on the ancient Reaper base that exists for the sole purpose of allowing the Reapers to easily cut off the heads of the Galactic Government. It's got a hot tub.

It's the Reaper code I'm worried about, not tech.

While the code falls under "Reaper Tech", not all "Reaper Tech" has Reaper code.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Yes. Yes you DO have a prejudice.
You want to know something? I'm a geth synpathiser. No kidding. I support that they were wronged. I support that their treatments formed the isolatinist belief that hurt them in the long run. What I don't support is everyong banging the quarians over something they had no control over, yet give the geth a free pass on it.
And again, HOW many times to I, and others, have to tell you that since NO ONE knew the geth were alive at the time, NO ONE KNEW THAT THE ATTACK WAS TANTAMOUNT TO GENOCIDE. And besides, the Council would have devestated the quarian economy with harsh sanctions over it had they known. The only way the Quarian's could escape the Council's wrath is to eliminate any and all evidence of the mistake. At the time, because again, NO ONE KNEW THEY WERE ALIVE, deactivating geth was seen as no different then deactivating a brainless LOKI mech, or an AVINA V.I. program.
And the geth DID have concepts of morals. In the recordings, we see at least one geth try surrendering itself. They had morals, but when the quarians finally panicked and attacked them full force, they said "screw it" and retaliated foll force. So that "1 year old in war" mentalaty rings completely false here.
And WRONG AGAIN. The quarians murdered NO ONE. They imprisioned, and death was only in the last resort. Those quarians were police officers, and like all officers, the arrest first. Killing is the last resort, and in the case of that bomb, likely unintentional manslaughter. They NEVER murdered any of the protesters, so stop trying to use it as a point.
And look at Xen. Her ideals on the geth not being alive. THAT'S the mindset that the quarian government had before the geth retaliated. They didn't know they were alive, so they didn't see it as murder to "deactivate" them.
And the ONLY reason the geth spared the quarians was because they didn't know the ramafacations of genocide at ALL. Not because it was quarians, but because genocide itself wasn't comprehensible to them yet. THAT'S the only reason the quarians were spared.

And AGAIN, wrong. Those protests ended BEFORE the Morning War, and the entire population turned on the geth after they retaliated and stopped caring about civilian casualties. At that point, when the war was in full swing, there wasn't a quarian that believed in sympathy, with all the sympathisers feeling like fools to trust the geth as they now no longer bothered to discriminate military from civilian. This is why none of the quarians remember this - because all sympathy for the geth was long dead by the time the war was in high gear.
So NO, yoru point is wrong, because at that point all the quarians hated the geth. So NO, I am not giveing a pass. You misunderstood the hsitory again.
And AGAIN, WRONG about semantcis. Just because something mimics life, doesn't mean it IS alive. Look at video games in general. Are the mass of pixials on the screen actual  living characters/beings, just because they phantomine being alive in the universe they are portrayed in like a book?  Jusy because something mines it, doesn't mean it actually is alive.
And AGAIN, if they had "owned up," then they lost their "right to remain slient" against the Council, in which "anything they say can and will be used against them in a court of law." The Council would have levied harsh and dibilitating Lawsuits against the quarians for what they did, on top of the scanctions. Their entire sociaty would fall into economic depression, and then all those lives would be dying of poverty anyway. So NO, "owning up" would have fixed absolutly nothing for them. The geth would still be dead (the Council would never let them survive), and the quarians would be exiled into a rouge nation, and still be victum to a large death count from the depression casused by the Council's sanctions.
So NO, there WAS no "silent majroity" for the qaurians, as any and all sympathy died for the geth after they stopped caring about civilians. 'Silent majority" didn't exist for the geth either, because ALL geth are internetworked for consensis. EVERY SINGLE GETH voices their unbiased opinion, which are ALL taken into account to create consensis. Given that, HOW is "silent majoriy" possible when the entire function of geth coinsensis is based on the compsoation of the collective opinions of every single geth?
So you see, " Silent majoriy" ISN'T a factor for EITHER race.
And another thing you do not understand is that the geth you face in the games? They are the same exact geth programs that killed quarians in the Morning War. They are immortal to the ravages of time, remember? These are the same geth that butchered the civilians in their retaliation. The modern quarians are not their acnestors. They see the geth as living beings, and Tali even says that many feel remorsefull for what they did to the geth, and that many actually blame themselves for giving the geth the negitive views they have of organics. Desperation was what drove both sides to what they did, yet you STILL try to preach that the geth had no fault.

And I and DenyonSlayer ALREADY explained SEVERAL TIMES OVER the circumstances of the quarians through 20+ pages.
I will try ONE MORE TIME to get it through.
The quarians are not resorce-efficant. They burn through entire supplies in weeks. Supplies that would last a turian fleet a month will be used up in days by the Migrant fleet, because unlike a turian fleet, which only needs to support 50-60 crew per crusier, the quarians need to support at least 300 per ship. A turian fleet of sixty ships needs to support 3600 people. A quarian group of 300 ships needs to support 90,000 people. And it continues to double and double as you go up. The quarians consume far more then the military ships of the turians do because, unlike the turians, the quarians are carring 17 million people with them whereever they go, consuming more then 20-30 times the resources that a single turian fleet does, making the quarians a massive burden on the already-strained turian supply lines - the very supply lines they were brought in to reinforce. This hurts humans as well, as it hampers turian responce time and rediness.
And the quarians were mostly scavenging food and resources, but sterilized nutriant paste created from dextro plant extract, syntheticly grown in artifical greenhouses, doesn't do much for them. Especally since many of the base plant sample the qarians have are imported. And those food supplies are small, as there is a finite amount of room to store resources onborad the ships, since most of the space is taken up by the quarians themselves. The remaining cargo space is then split between food, fuel storage, medical supplies, raw minerals used to fabricate repair and patch mateials for fixing ships. The resources are carefully balanced, and are always on the tipping point on a dayle basis. Every day it's unstable.
How much worse do you think that gets when they are forced into war? Supplies get lopsided, meaning there are shortages of certin things at critical times, which can become fatal. They live tottering on the brink in peace time. War would destroy the barely-intact balance the have. The only reason the went into war agains the geth wa because they had a viral weapon that would blind the geth so badly that the geth would never be able to fire a single shot back. Therefore, there was little risk. I mean, look how fast they crumbled when they were forced into a frontial fight.

And like I said above, owning up would not have changed anything. The Council would have come in and killed the geth themselves, and the quarians would have been driven to total poverty by the economic depression caused by the Council's sanctions and censorship. And if they tried, the geth would have likely responded to the Council forces just as viloently, and then the Council wound pound them and cause far more colateral damage then there already would have been.
"Being a mature adult" would have been singing the death warrents of their entire middle and lower classes. You are really going to fault them because they didn't want their lower classes to fall into a third world-sytle depression? Because I think trying to ensure your people have any chance at a future which avoides that fate superceeds personal pride.
And AGAIN, no one saw the geth as anything more then machines that were parroting words they didn't understand.
Just saying.
I mean, if your people - you entire culture - was dependant on the fate of someone else, regardless of the position, would you really throw away the future of your entire country and culture for another? When you are in a position of leadership, you HAVE to put your own people's welfare ahead of anothers. That's why they put you in that position in the first place.
It wasn't cowardace, and it wasn't karma. It was simple desperation.
And after all, one can also say that the geth's servitude to the Reapers was "karma" getting them back by putting them in the same life they rebelled from. Right?

So NO, I am not the one that's confused here. You are doing the exact same thing you accuse ME of doing, except for the geth. You are acting like the geth's reason's excuse their actions, but that it's not the same for the quarians, which is prejudiced.

I think therefore for I am.  That is what Rene Des Cartes said and that is how I judge life.  The minute the Geth could ponder their existence, their creators no longer have the right to decide whether they can live or die.  Neither does the Council.  You keep acting like I or the Geth have to judge the Quarians based on whether the Quarians or Council thought the Geth were alive.  I and the Geth don't.  When that video game you mention begs me not to destroy, it is no longer a video game.  I don't need to go check my Council manual and run all sorts of scenarios to arrive at that simple conclusion.  I think therefore I am.  A video game does not think, it processess.  Asking me not to destroy is indicative of thought ie you are pondering your very existence.  Simple.  You are free to form your own opinion.

A child if it can will show concern and protect it's mom.  That doesn't mean it has the same morality as an adult.  The Geth wanted to protect it's mom (their creators) so it surrendered itself.  Their mom was killed anyway.  When the Quarians turned on them en masse then they had no reason to do anything but kill the threat.  Find me a passage where it says the Quarians explained to the Geth this concept of civilains versus military?  Or that the Quarians explained to the Geth how Quarian society worked.  They were tools.  I don't explain to my computer human society and concepts. The Geth understood a Creator who sought to protect them and a Creator who sought to kill them.  The Creators who sought to kill them won the day and from that point the Quarian consensus decided the Geth needed to be killed and the Geth responded.  And the silent majority for the Geth was a reference to the Geth who stayed behind the Veil and did nothing to stop the Heretics.  The Heretics and thoe Geth are not the same.

And again I will ask the question. Where are they getting this food from as they war with the Geth?  Why can't they get this seem food while providing air support for their allies?  I understand their resource contraints.  I am saying you position that after 300 years of living with those resource contraints and while being able to engage in a way with the Geth on those resource contrainst, it makes no sense that they couldn't have instead of fighting the Geth providing support to their allies.  Does the food disappear if they are fighting Reapers instead of Geth?

And once again, after the experience in ME2, why don't they just ask the Geth if they can make peace and return?  Simple question.  Doesn't require a single life to be risked.  Unless you can find me a single reference to the Quarians asking that question then how are they not using War as a first solution when I thought you said killing or war should be as a last resort?  There is your double standard. 

As for the consequences, guess what tough luck.  Next time get up off your lazy a** and do it useful instead of creating a machine to do it.  They knew they risk.  They took precautions but their fu*ked up.  That's life bro.  What defines a hero or a coward is what they do with it.  Trying to kill the mistake when that mistake is intelligent enough to ask why it has to do ends all sympathy in my book.  The Geth didn't ask the Quarians to fu*k up.  You basically are crying about the Quarians potentially being punished for their own mistakes as if that justifies them killing the Geth.  It doesn't.  And it is murder because the Geth think it is.  Doesn't matter one iota what Quarians or the Council thinks as it is no longer their decision to make. 

Again, you are perfectly entitled to disagree but you are not changing my opinion.  I think therefore I am.  No one is going to convince me that anyone has the right to kill something that can beg for an explanation as to why it must die. 

Modifié par remydat, 19 mars 2013 - 10:22 .

[remydat]

Here is what I would have done if I was Quarian.  Admit my mistake and alert the Council.  Explain that they Geth have not posed any threat and that you in good conscience cannot kill a sentient being and will not raise up arms against it. Provide them with the documentation to support it was a mistake and not intentional.  I would then petition the Council to make an exception to their dumb rule and like EDI, I try and teach the Geth morality.

If the Council wants to war with the Geth then let them.  I like the Geth's chances.  I will officially lodge a complaint that I think the Council's actions are rash, remind them that war always has unexpected costs and antagonizing a synthetic race could be a self-fulfilling prophecy.  I explain the situation to the Geth and tell them if they remain on Rannoch, it might result in war that might hurt their Creators.  The Geth might decide to leave of their own free will to protect their creators.  I provide them with the necessary ships and give them a chance to survive.

This might not work at all but the point is I try.  War and killing is suppose to be a last resort remember.  So I exhaust all other options first rather than try and pre-emptively kill them whether I deem them to be alive or not.  That is what being a good person means to me.  Make the hard choice that may result in sacrifice on you part but then again, it is your fault you are in this mess so you need to be willing to sacrifice.  Life existed before the council and before these races found the mass relays so if I have to go back to just relying on a planetary economy then so be it.  Apparently there is only one dextro based planet that the Quarians can survive on anyways so why the hell do I need to remain a bi*ch to the council?

Modifié par remydat, 19 mars 2013 - 10:58 .

[Phatose]

Khelish wrote...

Phatose wrote...

I really feel bad for the "Reaper tech is evil" people.

You should see the apartment I've got on the ancient Reaper base that exists for the sole purpose of allowing the Reapers to easily cut off the heads of the Galactic Government. It's got a hot tub.

It's the Reaper code I'm worried about, not tech.

While the code falls under "Reaper Tech", not all "Reaper Tech" has Reaper code.

So...uh...you don't think there's any reaper code in that super-high tech teleporter or giant space station?  Steampunk Reapers maybe?

[Khelish]

Phatose wrote...

Khelish wrote...

Phatose wrote...

I really feel bad for the "Reaper tech is evil" people.

You should see the apartment I've got on the ancient Reaper base that exists for the sole purpose of allowing the Reapers to easily cut off the heads of the Galactic Government. It's got a hot tub.

It's the Reaper code I'm worried about, not tech.

While the code falls under "Reaper Tech", not all "Reaper Tech" has Reaper code.

So...uh...you don't think there's any reaper code in that super-high tech teleporter or giant space station?  Steampunk Reapers maybe?

Can you please drop the condescension?

---

Did I say that?

Reaper code that was just controlling the Geth, should not be trusted so easily, considering the Reapers could turn them again in the middle of a battle.

The Citadel was under control of Keeper's, and the Council races are in full control of the Relays. Reaper code the Geth desired is not inside all Reaper tech.

Modifié par Khelish, 19 mars 2013 - 10:27 .

[DeinonSlayer]

dafangirl wrote...

@remydat Why? The rachni are contained in the Hot Labs, the Rachni Queen likens their behavior to your Insane person example that tried to kill you who you said you would try to rehab not send to prison.

I wonder if the quest can be completed w/o setting off the Neutron Purge...I might have to try that.
I don't see why not, the Tram is right there and the Queen issue can be settled prior to setting foot in the Hot Labs.

Anyway, the analogy comparisons seem to be going circular. It's been a fun debate I don't fault any of your reasons per se for choosing the Geth. For me, still, based on what limited knowledge Shepard has regarding the Morning War from the simple slides presented in the Consensus, the fact that in the past the Geth have aligned themselves closely with the Reapers not once, but twice, irregardless of self-preservation, my Shepards will never choose such in this War.

I will not join the Reapers and will hold accountable any faction that does regardless of motivation. It wasn't right when Saren suggested it, it still doesn't feel right. I will have the Quarians in the final battle if no peace is available as the OP suggests.

In the end I will follow through and hold the Reapers responsible for the slaughter of countless cycles and shoot the tube.

The quest can be completed without purging the hot labs. A news announcement in the elevator later says Peak 15 was destroyed. I don't think you get an email from Han Olar in ME2 after that - everyone in the facility is killed instead of being evacuated. Other than that, I agree with the rest of your post.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 19 mars 2013 - 10:33 .

[Phatose]

Khelish wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Khelish wrote...

Phatose wrote...

I really feel bad for the "Reaper tech is evil" people.

You should see the apartment I've got on the ancient Reaper base that exists for the sole purpose of allowing the Reapers to easily cut off the heads of the Galactic Government. It's got a hot tub.

It's the Reaper code I'm worried about, not tech.

While the code falls under "Reaper Tech", not all "Reaper Tech" has Reaper code.

So...uh...you don't think there's any reaper code in that super-high tech teleporter or giant space station?  Steampunk Reapers maybe?

Can you please drop the condescension?

---

Did I say that?

Reaper code that was just controlling the Geth, should not be trusted so easily, considering the Reapers could turn them again in the middle of a battle.

The Citadel was under control of Keeper's, and the Council races are in full control of the Relays. Reaper code the Geth desired is not inside all Reaper tech.

Well, one....it, uh, wasn't controlling the Geth.  That code came from Legion or the Geth VI, neither of which are actually under Reaper control.

Two....we know that the Citadel is not under the control of the Keepers from Vigil.  The keepers respond to a signal from the Citadel, not the other way around.

Three, if the Mass Relay network is actually fully under the control of the Council Races, then we should probably start asking "Guys, why did we not turn these things off?  Or make it so that when it detects a particular IFF, it sends you into someplace really dangerous, like a black hole or the local sun?  Cause the Reapers did that one to us before, worked out pretty well for them."

[Getorex]

silverexile17s wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You know it makes me laugh at the hysteria of Geth getting Reaper tech, when Shep enhanced by reaper tech, is driving around on a ship enhanced with Reapertech, controlled by an AI using Reapertech.

Now if you don't trust them that's one thing (I don't trust derperus which is why I never gave them the base) but saying the code is gonna make them evil is silly. EDI hasn't gone bonkers. yes like it or not Shepard currently has unshackled Reaper tech controlling his ship. There's nothing you can do about this. He has a synthetic with Reaper tech and trusts it with his life (and that of his crew) along with all the information on the war on a daily basis.

Hypocrisy anyone?

FYI Overlord clearly shows SHEP can be hacked. Why the Reapers didn't do so is anyone's guess.

WRONG. Shepard's implants are NOT Reaper tech. And the ONLY Reaper tech in in EDI's central core.

Yes.  In Overlord Legion states that humans have experimented with artificial reality interfaces and that is basically what they are providing to Shepard.  It has nothing at all to do with any prosthetics he has, it is something they could do with ANY human.  The Geth merely get CODE that derives from Reapers.  In other words, a bunch of If-Then-Else, Case, etc, statements.  Code.  No magic, no weird hardware.  The only entity that could even remotely be considered partly Reaper(ish) is EDI because of her hardware core.  But her programming was not commanding.  It didn't say "Kill all organics!" like a Reaper might command.  It simply offered the ability to self-refer, to have a sense of self, and to obtain a state of consciousness.  There cannot be anything magical about Reaper tech, hardware or software, that compels the desire to destroy any and all advanced organic life.  That's crazy talk.

Be that as it may, the entire game confuses the actual meaning of "synthetic".  Synthetic life is a mushy term, for instance. In REAL reality synthetic biology is ENTIRELY organic.  DNA, RNA, fatty acids, proteins, etc.  "Synthetic life", per se,  generally refers to software written to mimic very simple "life" as far as "resource acquisition" and reproduction.  It serves as a mere model for real bacteria or related simple life.  It isn't in any way alive.  Bioware confused the issue by making this whole thing about "synthetic vs organic" when in REALITY synthetic biology is just as organic as you are, as any bacteria is, any microbe, any plant.  No difference.  Think genetic engineering to the extreme. 

[remydat]

dafangirl wrote...

@remydat Why? The rachni are contained in the Hot Labs, the Rachni Queen likens their behavior to your Insane person example that tried to kill you who you said you would try to rehab not send to prison.

I wonder if the quest can be completed w/o setting off the Neutron Purge...I might have to try that.
I don't see why not, the Tram is right there and the Queen issue can be settled prior to setting foot in the Hot Labs.

Anyway, the analogy comparisons seem to be going circular. It's been a fun debate I don't fault any of your reasons per se for choosing the Geth. For me, still, based on what limited knowledge Shepard has regarding the Morning War from the simple slides presented in the Consensus, the fact that in the past the Geth have aligned themselves closely with the Reapers not once, but twice, irregardless of self-preservation, my Shepards will never choose such in this War.

I will not join the Reapers and will hold accountable any faction that does regardless of motivation. It wasn't right when Saren suggested it, it still doesn't feel right. I will have the Quarians in the final battle if no peace is available as the OP suggests.

In the end I will follow through and hold the Reapers responsible for the slaughter of countless cycles and shoot the tube.

I haven't played ME1 in something like 7 years.  I thought I had no choice in killing the Rachni ie the insane person was engaged in attacking me at this very moment and I had to kill them or I would have been killed.  In any event, I have only ever saved the Rachni Queen (again only not saving her once just to see the dialogue) so rest assured I always choose the paragon route.  If you are telling me the game is such that Shepard has no choice but to kill them when they had a chance then I would say it was amoral.  I just don't remember all the finer points of that story.

And again, I don't begrudge anyone for their choics.  I simply am passionately arguing my opinion just like I expect others to argue theirs.  As for the ending, I have only chosen the Destroy option once again just to see it.  I don't get all giddy because Shepard breathes and I never saw the point of the Destroy ending.  If I got to walk off in the sunset with Tali or they showed are children I might like it more but I just assume Marauder Shields gets up brushes himself off and then smashes in my face after that last breath, lol.

I am a synthesis guy all the way with the occassional choice of control.  I assume it is only natural after all the death and sacrifice that Shepard would sacrifice himself for others.  I never got people who complain Shep should live.  The dude is the ultimate hero and heroes die.  In any event, while I have grave misgivings deciding for everyone to synthesize, it is the only way that organics and synthetics live and the reapers die. The other option is control which I occassional select when I am being super philosophical and decide that the Reapers are merely an incredibly flawed solution for organic's natural hatred of synthetic life.  Killing them merely kills the symptom not the cause.

[Profanity Beaver]

There were Quarian children on those ships...

[remydat]

Profanity Beaver wrote...

There were Quarian children on those ships...

There were Batarian children who died as a result of Arrival.  There millions or billions of Geth who die if you opt to kill them.  How you want to weigh those lives are up to you but I will not devalue synthetic life just because I am organic.

[AlexMBrennan]

There were Quarian children on those ships...

Maybe they should have thought of that before starting an unnecessary war? In your argument, the quarians are basically using their children as human shields ("kill the geth or these kids will die... because we strapped them to our battleships")

[remydat]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

There were Quarian children on those ships...

Maybe they should have thought of that before starting an unnecessary war? In your argument, the quarians are basically using their children as human shields ("kill the geth or these kids will die... because we strapped them to our battleships")

Look man tagging along while your idiot parents try and attack the Geth again admist a Reaper War is the Quarian version of a Sunday BBQ with a little genocide as the Apple Pie.

[remydat]

dafangirl wrote...

@remydat I haven't played ME1, since, let's see, last night...lol

Actually in Synthesis the Reapers are now BFF's are they not? I would assume along with husks, banshee's, Adjutants, etc.The only decision, I believe that ensures the Reapers die is Destroy.

I tried replying Mass Effect 1 this weekend actually and just couldn't get past Meeting up with Ashley on Eden Prime.  The gameplay and graphics are just too different now.  So I just got ME Genesis and am now starting ME2 again mainly so I can play with Alenko (my main games were based off of ones where I saved Ashley) without having to put up with Wrev and killing the Queen, etc.   I am too the point with Ash that I am tempted to just kill her during the Cerberus Coup because her distrust of me causes too much pain, lol.  So glad I did not chose her as a love interest.   Really wish they had a ME Genesis for ME3.

As for Synthesis you may be right.  I guess I felt sorry for having to kill Marauder Shields and wanted to give his brother Marauder Barriers a second chance.  Although that raises an important question.  Does he have a brother nameds Marauder Barriers or is Marauder Shields just fu*king with me and using a barrier engine to disguise himself?

Modifié par remydat, 19 mars 2013 - 11:34 .

[Kabooooom]

This debate isn't all THAT great

[Profanity Beaver]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

There were Quarian children on those ships...

Maybe they should have thought of that before starting an unnecessary war? In your argument, the quarians are basically using their children as human shields ("kill the geth or these kids will die... because we strapped them to our battleships")

I'm just talking about from Shep's point of view when he or she makes the choice.

The Quarians are wrong to do that. The children however, had nothing to do with the choices that brought them there.

[G Kevin]

dafangirl wrote...

@Kabooooom There were definite popcorn-inducing moments, however, after 50 pages I would say being here for most of it, the Geth are the winners of the "no peace" available debate. Sad, for me, because I'm in the Quarian corner, mostly alone now.

I woudn't say that.

It's been fairly even so far. Quarians win on some, Geth win on some. Basically strengthens the idea that no one wins in a no peace situation.

[justafan]

remydat wrote...

Profanity Beaver wrote...

There were Quarian children on those ships...

There were Batarian children who died as a result of Arrival.  There millions or billions of Geth who die if you opt to kill them.  How you want to weigh those lives are up to you but I will not devalue synthetic life just because I am organic.

Actually, only a single Geth dies if you destroy them.  Geth are a hivemind, hence one conscience, and one entity "We are Geth".  So kill one entity plus one (legion, as I count him separate) in self defence, or kill 17 million?

And it's not like every single Geth in the Galaxy is at Tikkun.  There are probably still some scattered here and there, and they would form a new conscience when they couldn't connect to the old assuming there are enough to qualify as AI.  Thing is though, Geth can repopulate as fast as you can press "control V", while Quarians on the otherhand, despite there surely being a few pilgrims scattered about, can't do that.

Modifié par justafan, 19 mars 2013 - 11:58 .

[Phatose]

The Geth are not a hivemind in the way you suggest. The very existence of the heretics clearly demonstrates that. Additionally, the plot itself makes clear that Geth reproduction is not "control-V". Not do they all always agree, as shown by Legion in ME2 giving you process counts of his cyber-democracy while on the heretic base.

[HiddenInWar]

50 pages...