4712 réponses à ce sujet

[remydat]

Phatose wrote...

The Geth are not a hivemind in the way you suggest. The very existence of the heretics clearly demonstrates that. Additionally, the plot itself makes clear that Geth reproduction is not "control-V". Not do they all always agree, as shown by Legion in ME2 giving you process counts of his cyber-democracy while on the heretic base.

Exactly.  Not to mention with the Reaper Code and continued interaction with organics, they will likely develop individuality like EDI and Legion did.

[remydat]

dafangirl wrote...

@remydat There is another thread floating around about now that ME3 is finished would you choose Ashley or Kaidan. I believe it depends on whether you play Maleshep or Fem. Ash towards Femshep depending on how she's handled on Mars is much more forgiving than Kaidan, so it may just come down to the gender of the Shepard vs. VS.

Yeah I saw that thread and may not pop over there now that things are more manageable here, lol.

dafangirl wrote...

@Kabooooom There were definite popcorn-inducing moments, however, after 50 pages I would say being here for most of it, the Geth are the winners of the "no peace" available debate. Sad, for me, because I'm in the Quarian corner, mostly alone now.

Gives dafangirl a hug.  Don't worry, in this new no peace option, the Citadel DLC contains recordings of Xen, Gherel, Ran and all you favorite war criminals.  If you romanced Tali then Admiral Koris in the end says fu*k this and leaves with his Civlian Fleet and in a private moment in your posh new apartment, Tali reveals in a tender moment that she finally feels free now that all the genocidal military tools are dead.

Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 12:13 .

[Khelish]

Phatose wrote...

Actually, they are.

Legion equates Heretics as a "rogue arm" to an organic body.

[Phatose]

Metaphorically, that's the case even if it's a giant cyber democracy. And after Legion's process headcount on the base, it's hard to see it as anything other then that.

[Khelish]

Phatose wrote...

Metaphorically, that's the case even if it's a giant cyber democracy. And after Legion's process headcount on the base, it's hard to see it as anything other then that.

It's like having your own arm start killing people.

It was your job to keep it under control. It is your fault if you allow it to go worship gods that thrive on organic sacrifice. Guess what the Geth did? They allowed the Heretics to go along with Reapers, becuase Legion "understood" why they wanted to. Pretty pathetic excuse if you ask me.

[remydat]

Khelish wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Actually, they are.

Legion equates Heretics as a "rogue arm" to an organic body.

Legion wouldn't understand an individual synthetic if it shot him in the face.  That dude is running around with a sentimental gun and N7 armor long before he finally admits he is an individual.  Individual to him is akin to a dirty word so he resists saying it until right before his death when the new code allows him to finally understand how beautiful being an individual really is and he says I.

Now if you don't want to accept that head cannon then the facts are we know the Geth have potential to become individuals because Legion eventually becomes one.  So trying to pretend you are only killing one Geth seems like semantics again.  I wish I had the power to just kill people over a technicality but alas I don't.

[Phatose]

Khelish wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Metaphorically,
that's the case even if it's a giant cyber democracy. And after
Legion's process headcount on the base, it's hard to see it as anything
other then that.

It's like having your own arm start killing
people.

It was your job to keep it under control. It is your fault if you allow
it to go worship gods that thrive on organic sacrifice. Guess what the
Geth did? They allowed the Heretics to go along with Reapers, becuase
Legion "understood" why they wanted to. Pretty pathetic excuse if you
ask me.

Do you feel personally responsible for every ideological conflict humanity has ever been in?

Modifié par Phatose, 20 mars 2013 - 12:25 .

[Tron Mega]

at first id think the geth truely are unique. the first to not kill organics. but then the catalyst tells me there have probably been tons of synthetics capable of becoming like the geth, he just killed them becaseu of all his reasons. so yeah the geth are unique, but so is everything else in this cycle. from the ants to zuchinis. were all unique. were all important.

id let them both the geth and quarians die. if you cant come to terms with both sides being ignorant and foolish at the end of the world, then good luck to you, ill just recruit the batarians instead.

[Khelish]

Hey remy, have fun with killing millions of innocent lives to save a criminal. I'm done in this thread.

[remydat]

Khelish wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Metaphorically, that's the case even if it's a giant cyber democracy. And after Legion's process headcount on the base, it's hard to see it as anything other then that.

It's like having your own arm start killing people.

It was your job to keep it under control. It is your fault if you allow it to go worship gods that thrive on organic sacrifice. Guess what the Geth did? They allowed the Heretics to go along with Reapers, becuase Legion "understood" why they wanted to. Pretty pathetic excuse if you ask me.

This just amazes me.  On the one hand people say it is understandable the Quarians wanted to wipe out the Geth because of the fear the Council would wipe out the Geth and punish the Quarians but on the other, The Geth are suppose to care that a rogue faction wants to kill the very Council Races whose policies drove the Quarians to attempt to exterminate them?

Umm, no.  If my evolving race suddenly has a disagreement and parts of it now want to leave and go kill the very people whose policies created the conflict then you know what I would let them.  Give me a call when the Council abolishes that law and then I might concern myself with the heretics.

[remydat]

Khelish wrote...

Hey remy, have fun with killing millions of innocent lives to save a criminal. I'm done in this thread.

As opposed to having fun killing a species with the growing potential to develop into billions of individual lives to save millions of people who saw fit to elect leaders that would attack a current non-combatant admist a war to decide the galaxy to settle a 300 year old score instead of assist my and the Turian's burning planets?

I would regrettably conclude the Quarians after thousands of years of culture and development still haven't learned their lesson.  Keelah Se'lai Tali. I will miss sharing a bed with you and will mourn your misfortune of being born to a race whose idiotic leaders lead to their ruin.

Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 12:39 .

[G Kevin]

remydat wrote...

This just amazes me.  On the one hand people say it is understandable the Quarians wanted to wipe out the Geth because of the fear the Council would wipe out the Geth and punish the Quarians but on the other, The Geth are suppose to care that a rogue faction wants to kill the very Council Races whose policies drove the Quarians to attempt to exterminate them?

Umm, no.  If my evolving race suddenly has a disagreement and parts of it now want to leave and go kill the very people whose policies created the conflict then you know what I would let them.  Give me a call when the Council abolishes that law and then I might concern myself with the heretics.

Last time a checked, the Geth don't give two sticks about the council laws. They are isolationists after all.

remydat wrote...

...I would regrettably conclude the Quarians after thousands of years of culture and development still haven't learned their lesson... 

How can they learn when the Geth are treated by everyone as a hostile race? Shepard and Co. know otherwise, the Quarians and the rest of the galaxy do not.

Modifié par G Kevin, 20 mars 2013 - 12:42 .

[remydat]

G Kevin wrote...

remydat wrote...

This just amazes me.  On the one hand people say it is understandable the Quarians wanted to wipe out the Geth because of the fear the Council would wipe out the Geth and punish the Quarians but on the other, The Geth are suppose to care that a rogue faction wants to kill the very Council Races whose policies drove the Quarians to attempt to exterminate them?

Umm, no.  If my evolving race suddenly has a disagreement and parts of it now want to leave and go kill the very people whose policies created the conflict then you know what I would let them.  Give me a call when the Council abolishes that law and then I might concern myself with the heretics.

Last time a checked, the Geth don't give two sticks about the council laws. They are isolationists after all.

I think you miss the point.  Why should the Geth give two sticks about the Council Races when their laws say they have no right to exist.  As someone pointed out they have the extranet so let's step into the world fo the Consensus.

Consensus - Hmm, the heretics want to go kill organics.
Consensus - Hmm, maybe we should stop them.
Consensus - Hmm, didn't the Quarians try and wipe us out so that the Council wouldn't be mad at them?
Consesus - Hmm, but surely the Council has learned not to judge all synthetic life based on their irrational fear? 
Consensus - Hmm, incorrect, I just checked the extranet, their laws still say we should not exist.
Consensus - Hmm, next order of business, have we watched the new Blasto 6 movie?

G Kevin wrote...
How can they learn when the Geth are treated by everyone as a hostile race? Shepard and Co. know otherwise, the Quarians and the rest of the galaxy do not.

Consensus - Hmm, that was a great movie.  Note to us.  Make contact with the Hanar, they seem nice.
Consensus - Hmm,  Next order of business, should the Quarians have learned their lesson?
Consensus - Hmm, well the Heretics did try and attack them maybe they don't know it wasn't us.
Consensus - Hmm, Creator Tali Zorah was present when the program formerly known as Legion contacted Shepard Commander.
Program formerly known as Legion - This is correct. 
Consensus - Hmm, does she know it wasn't us?
Program formerly known as Legion - This is correct.  She is aware.
Consensus - Hmm, does she possess a tongue that can be used to communicate this to the other Quarians?
Prorgram formerly known as Legion - This is correct. She possesses a tongue.
Consensus - Consensus reached.  The Quarians should have learned their lesson.

Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 12:56 .

[Iamjdr]

@remydat
Have you ever heard the saying " all that is nessecary for The triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." it's very fitting to your argument

Modifié par Iamjdr, 20 mars 2013 - 01:01 .

[G Kevin]

remydat wrote...

Consensus - Hmm, that was a great movie.  Next order of business, should the Quarians have learned their lesson.
Consensus - Hmm, well the Heretics did try and attack them maybe they don't know it was us.
Consensus - Hmm, Creator Tali Zorah was present when the program formerly known as Legion contacted Shepard Commanded.
Program formerly known as Legion - This is correct. 
Consensus - Hmm, does she know it wasn't us.
Program formerly known as Legion - This is correct.  She is aware.
Consensus - Hmm, does she possess a tongue that can be used to communicate this to the Quarians.
Prorgram formerly known as Legion - This is correct. 
Consensus - Consensus reached.  The Quarians should have learned their lesson.

I don't see how one Quarian admiral could convince the rest that the Geth don't intend to harm them. It takes more than just testimoney to convince people about stuff like that.

remydat wrote...

I think you miss the point.  Why should the Geth give two sticks about the Council Races when their laws say they have no right to exist.  As someone pointed out they have the extranet so let's step into the world fo the Consensus.

Consensus - Hmm, the heretics want to go kill organics.
Consensus - Hmm, maybe we should stop them.
Consensus - Hmm, didn't the Quarians try and wipe us out so that the Council wouldn't be mad at them?
Consesus - Hmm, but surely the Council has learned not to judge all synthetic life based on their irrational fear?  
Consensus - Hmm, incorrect, I just checked the extranet, their laws still say we should not exist.
Consensus - Hmm, next order of business, have we watched the new Blasto 6 movie?

If Geth had actually cared about that law, all they had to do was contact the council about their peaceful existence. It doesn't help that the only Geth the council races have associated with are heretics.

Modifié par G Kevin, 20 mars 2013 - 01:01 .

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

@remydat
Have you ever heard the saying " all that is nessecary for evil triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." it's very fitting to your argument

Yes I have.  Too bad the Quarians did not believe it when they tried to kill the Geth or the Council when they created a law banning synthetic life.  Would have saved everyone a lot of trouble and maybe taught the Geth this valuable lesson.

Instead, the Geth learned the organics hate them for simply existing, good organic men did nothing about it and the Geth reciprocated that hate.  Now, what does that double edged sword feel like?

Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 01:05 .

[remydat]

G Kevin wrote...

remydat wrote...

Consensus - Hmm, that was a great movie.  Next order of business, should the Quarians have learned their lesson.
Consensus - Hmm, well the Heretics did try and attack them maybe they don't know it was us.
Consensus - Hmm, Creator Tali Zorah was present when the program formerly known as Legion contacted Shepard Commanded.
Program formerly known as Legion - This is correct. 
Consensus - Hmm, does she know it wasn't us.
Program formerly known as Legion - This is correct.  She is aware.
Consensus - Hmm, does she possess a tongue that can be used to communicate this to the Quarians.
Prorgram formerly known as Legion - This is correct. 
Consensus - Consensus reached.  The Quarians should have learned their lesson.

I don't see how one Quarian admiral could convince the rest that the Geth don't intend to harm them. It takes more than just testimoney to convince people about stuff like that.

You asked how they would know.  I told you.  If they don't want to believe Shepard and Tali then that is their choice.

[Only-Twin]

G Kevin wrote...

remydat wrote...

Consensus - Hmm, that was a great movie.  Next order of business, should the Quarians have learned their lesson.
Consensus - Hmm, well the Heretics did try and attack them maybe they don't know it was us.
Consensus - Hmm, Creator Tali Zorah was present when the program formerly known as Legion contacted Shepard Commanded.
Program formerly known as Legion - This is correct. 
Consensus - Hmm, does she know it wasn't us.
Program formerly known as Legion - This is correct.  She is aware.
Consensus - Hmm, does she possess a tongue that can be used to communicate this to the Quarians.
Prorgram formerly known as Legion - This is correct. 
Consensus - Consensus reached.  The Quarians should have learned their lesson.

I don't see how one Quarian admiral could convince the rest that the Geth don't intend to harm them. It takes more than just testimoney to convince people about stuff like that.

If only the council were so easily convinced... 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Anything that willingly sides with the Reapers deserves death.

The Geth's utility as cannon fodder is the only thing that makes me push for peace.

Their service in the Reaper war and their death from the destroy beam counts as their redemption.

[G Kevin]

remydat wrote...

You asked how they would know.  I told you.  If they don't want to believe Shepard and Tali then that is their choice.

They can't be blamed for not believing Shepard and Tali. There is no evidence to suggest it. How would you convince someone that half of your race is trying to kill you while the other half just wants to be friends?

[Iamjdr]

So you think the council should just allow AI to be made left and right? I'm Pretty sure the council has those laws in place for good reason. Double edged sword? Harldy,That quote is about sitting by and watching while someone you know goes off and does evil. this dies not apply to the quarians or the council, only to the Geth who knew of nazaras plan but did nothin but allow some of there own to join his cause with out so much as a peep of warning to all the races who have never wrong the Geth.

Modifié par Iamjdr, 20 mars 2013 - 01:08 .

[Phatose]

Well, they allow Natural Intelligences to be made left and right. I'm pretty sure those also have a pretty damn bad track record when it comes to the whole 'now lets go destroy everything'. thing.

Modifié par Phatose, 20 mars 2013 - 01:10 .

[remydat]

G Kevin wrote...

remydat wrote...

You asked how they would know.  I told you.  If they don't want to believe Shepard and Tali then that is their choice.

They can't be blamed for not believing Shepard and Tali. There is no evidence to suggest it. How would you convince someone that half of your race is trying to kill you while the other half just wants to be friends?

Of course they can. If they don't find the dude who saved the Galaxy credible then just like the Council idiots who didn't want to believe the Reapers were real fu*k them.  Throw in a fellow Quarian lending credence to the Hero of the Citadel then yeah sorry.  Further, if a white dude robs me, should i assume every white dude wants to rob me?  That sounds like a Geth way of thinking and I thought we were suppose to be smarter than that ie judging an entire group based on the actions of different members of the group.

See this is where I get lost with you guys.  You keep seeming to have one set of rules for the Geth and another set for the Quarians.  And it is weird because the rules you have for the Geth are more appropriate for an organic race that understands morality better than sentient robots.

[G Kevin]

remydat wrote...

Of course they can. If they don't find the dude who saved the Galaxy credible then just like the Council idiots who didn't want to believe the Reapers were real fu*k them.  Throw in a fellow Quarian lending credence to the Hero of the Citadel then yeah sorry.  Further, if a white dude robs me, should i assume every white dude wants to rob me?  That sounds like a Geth way of thinking and I thought we were suppose to be smarter than that ie judging an entire group based on the actions of different members of the group.

Person who saved the Galaxy from a Geth attack. Funny for someone to have saved the Galaxy from a Geth attack and then suddenly claim their are actually friends.

One "white dude" is not half of a race. That's like an extreme outlier.

remydat wrote...

See this is where I get lost with you guys.  You keep seeming to have one set of rules for the Geth and another set for the Quarians.  And it is weird because the rules you have for the Geth are more appropriate for an organic race that understands morality better than sentient robots.

I don't get what you are trying to say. What rules?

Modifié par G Kevin, 20 mars 2013 - 01:19 .

[Iamjdr]

What are our 2 sets of rules again? I have 1 rule, you join the reapers willingly, you die plain and simple. The geth had there chance once, I met legion an because of the new information he gave me on the Geth and Allowing me to take out the heretics I gave the Geth the benefit of the doubt.then in me3 they pull a 180 on just about everything that legion told me about the geth and they once again join back with the reapers but they want me to betray my allies that had literally just help me kill a reaper, so that the Geth can upload reaper code? Yeah no thanks....Fool me once, shame on you Fool me twice shame on me.

Modifié par Iamjdr, 20 mars 2013 - 01:26 .