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[Iamjdr]

So the Geth should just be welcomed into the galactic community with open arms after murdering over a billion quarians and taking there planets then hiding for 300 years with there first contact with the galaxy again is when there storming the citadel with sovereign?

[G Kevin]

Ryzaki wrote...

This will never stop making me lol.


The Quarians decided it was a good idea to get a homeplanet when everyone else's homeplanet was being seiged? Nevermind that they of all species have the most laughable ground troops? 

Lulz.

They needed their homeworld to keep their civilians on because they knew that the Reaper war was going to involve them. They only attacked the Geth because they could easily beat them if it were not for Reaper intervention. If they didn't have a permanent place, then the Quarians are easy picking for the Reapers. Look at Earth, the ground fighting continues and is drawn out but the space battle is pretty much over in a few hours.

Modifié par G Kevin, 20 mars 2013 - 03:09 .

[Vortex13]

I would like to interject if I may. This is a very interesting debate and I wanted to share my two cents on the subject, specifically how the Geth are treated in ME 3. This is from a thread in the DA:I forums, but it still touches on the points mentioned here.

Vortex13 wrote...

I am a big fan of the DA setting in general and the Darkspawn in particular, and while I prefer the DA:O/DA:A designs over DA 2 I still enjoy the character/race. I also loved the new side of the Darkspawn we were shown in Awakening, the idea that intelligent Darkspawn were posible was both interesting and terrifying at the same time.

My Warden spared the Architect, but only because of the potential allies the awakened Disiples could make (I found his 'grand plan' in DA: The Calling abhorant and I still think there was something he was not telling us). The one Darkspawn that approaches you outside of Amaranthie (sp?) instantly drew parallels to Legion in ME 2, and that was awesome; Legion being my favorite squadmate/character.

But, after playing ME 3 I would ask that the DA team (in the event they give us a Darkspawn party member, or allow us to recruit the Darkspawn as allies) NOT go the same route as ME did with the Geth. This is not about the ending, but how the Geth were shown to be:

1. Innocent victims in the war of Protagonist and his/her allies' aggression.

I don't think that I would really have to worry about this happening, but the fact that the Geth were shown to be 'in the right' annoyed me, and I am a Geth/Legion fan. I enjoyed the interaction that Tali and Legion had (as spokesmen for ther respective races), the clashes of ideology, and the obvious animosity between the two was potent, and I could easily see both sides of the debate. ME 3 destroyed that however, the Geth are white washed and Quarians are painted as the cruel taskmasters that were killing the peaceful robots, that they were stupid and rightfully lost their planet. No mention of the 99% casualty rate, or the fact that the Geth never made any attempts to communicate with the Quarians and killed anyone entering the Perseus Veil.

What does this have to do with the Darkspawn (and I would imagine the same argument could be made about the mages)? I don't want to see a retroactive shift of the characters/race of the Darkspawn being thrown into a light that casts them as a poor misunderstood villian, a tragic figure brought on by characters that were (for the past two games) the protagonists allies and friends.

But like I said, I probably don't have to worry about this one too much, DA:A did a very good job of casting a nice shade of morally grey descisions around the awakened Darkspawn and the Architect.

2. A complete 180 of the characters' personalities, beliefs and motives.

Legion suddenly pushing for using Reaper tech, the Geth allying with the Reapers (brought on by the 'evil' Quarians), these are things that bugged me about the Rannoch arc in ME 3. It almost seems like the Legion of ME 2 & 3 are completely different characters, in ME 2 he would never have pushed for using the old machines gifts. "Accepting another's path blinds you to alternatives." but in ME 3 that is exactly what he wants.

The Darkspawn are pretty safe insomuch as they haven't really stated an idelolgy, but any 'out of the blue shift' in their character would be a mistake.

3. Hominization of the character/race.

The biggest thing that irked me about the ME 3 Geth, was that at the end of their arc, they really only wanted to be just like organics, to be human. The Pinoccio "I want to be a real boy!" troupe is getting old (IMO). It comes across as implied racism/speciesism in that a character/race is not 'correct' in thier existence, and must strive to be like the 'better' race to achieve true happiness and fufulment.

Why is it that (in recent Sci Fi settings) that robots apparently are all organic wannabes with daddy issues? I prefer the 'pure' robots, things like: the Terminators, the (Pre-Wared) Necrons, even Bioware's own HK-47 existed happily never striving to be just like humanity. The Geth were truly unique with their networked intelligence, but in the end that is scrapped for individual beings that interact like we do.

I don't want to see this happen to the Darkspawn, the traits that make them unique are what makes them interesting to me. I love, for example, how the Darkspawn are essentially a corruption and twisting of life, and I love how the awakened Darkspawn exist in a damned state in the eyes of the rest if Thedas. I don't want to see that removed for the sake of making the Darkspawn more relatable, or more human; it is the fact that they aren't human that drew me to them in the first place!

Thats how I feel about the Darkspawn, I love Bioware's handling of them (minus the DA 2 redesign) and I would love to see more in the future, to delve further into their character, to maybe have a Darkspawn companion, or even to play as one in MP. But I don't want to see what I loved about them destroyed in the process.

Edit for for formating.

[G Kevin]

remydat wrote...

Incorrect, Legion said some of the Geth did not like the Old Machines.  Furthermore the Quarians last 300 years adrift in space and once again, the Reapers likely don't care to Reap a tiny population.  They are Reaping populations of billions not millions.  All getting Rannoch does is provide a quick little snack for a Reaper.  Their nomadic lifestyle makes it harder for Reapers to find them.  What dumb reapers is going to waste time chasing around a flotilla of 17 million people when it can pull up any galaxy map and find the location of a planet with BILLIONS OF PEOPLE on it?

Their nomadic lifestyle will not exist if everyone else is dead!

They need to trade for resources, the flotilla barely keeps itself afloat. Why do you think the Quarians get sent on their pilgramage? They don't have the resources to have a lot of people on the Migrant fleet unless you are useful.

The Reapers will kill everone. They don't need to find the fleet. They can just shutdown or Guard the Mass Relays until the Quarians are wiped out like everyone else.

[Ryzaki]

G Kevin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

This will never stop making me lol.


The Quarians decided it was a good idea to get a homeplanet when everyone else's homeplanet was being seiged? Nevermind that they of all species have the most laughable ground troops? 

Lulz.

They needed their homeworld to keep their civilians on because they knew that the Reaper war was going to involve them. They only attacked the Geth because they could easily beat them if it were not for Reaper intervention.

And the second they put a large population of their people ANYWHERE they've essentially painted a target on their backs. The Reapers were leaving them alone for the most part because it was a nuisance to hunt them down and there wasn't enough.

With a homeworld? That's a ripe tasty fruit that's just ready to be plucked. Especially since the Reapers have far far superior ground troops to the Quarians. Just a few indoctrinated Quarians could cripple their whole race. Send a few Sovereign class Reapers to Rannoch with a few thousand ground troops and it's pretty much over. The second they start fighting on the ground the Reapers have won.

It's foolishness. They were safer in the sky. Yes they were safer in the sky traveling from war torn planet, to war torn planet scavenging for supplies. You think the Reapers won't leave behind valuables in the places they destroy? Course they will. Only reason I see Reapers NOT laying seige to Rannoch as soon as the Quarians start settling in is because they're more concerned with the Crucible and harvesting humanity. (that and their latest idiot ball poor Reapers carry so many)

Otherwise Quarians just worsened their situation. Their fleets can no longer leave the homeworld (Who's gonna protect it) (and remember they still will need supplies to even get started making their planet a home again), and they know have to deal with Reaper forces attacking and they can't run away. (There's no where to go).

...that's an improvement how exactly?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 mars 2013 - 03:13 .

[G Kevin]

Ryzaki wrote...

And the second they put a large population of their people ANYWHERE they've essentially painted a target on their backs. The Reapers were leaving them alone for the most part because it was a nuisance to hunt them down and there wasn't enough.

With a homeworld? That's a ripe tasty fruit that's just ready to be plucked. Especially since the Reapers have far far superior ground troops to the Quarians.

It's foolishness. They were safer in the sky. Only reason I see Reapers NOT laying seige to Rannoch as soon as the Quarians start settling in is because they're more concerned with the Crucible and harvesting humanity.

I edited my previoust post but I will say it again.

The ground fighting is better than in space. The Quarians have to go through Mass Relays eventually because they cannot survive in space for a long time. The Reapers would just pick them off as that happens.

On Rannoch, they can just sit there and prolong the war just like the ground fighting on Earth and Palevan. They have a better chance fighting the ground force than they do of fighting in space. If the Geth fleet could wipe them out, the Reaper fleet would just demolish them with one go.

[remydat]

tevix wrote...

Hey remy, you remember when deinon posted from that novel where it said that diplomatic ships were blown up when attempting to make peace? And how they refused to answer any peaceful communications?

That was during times of peace, when no one was under duress. The quarians have every reason to assume negotiation during war with the reapers will be pointless.

And the battle of the citadel isn't about proving yourself to a racist. It's about stopping someone you know is going to attempt GALACTIC GENOCIDE when you have the power to do so.

The geth did not. Nor did they stop the destruction of peaceful ships. Nor did they reject being used for galactic genocide. Nor did they reject murdering 100% of the quarians, knowing full well they will annihilate a vast bulk of unwilling combatants.

The geth were wronged in the beginning. Then the geth continued to wrong.

They tried to wipe out all quarians. If the quarians didn't leave, they'd all be dead.
The geth destroyed peace ships and rejected offers of peace talks.
The geth allowed the heretics (a minor number of geth compared to their total) to attempt galactic genocide.
The geth accepted being used for galactic genocide for their own gains.
The geth were willing to wipe out ALL quarian ships, instead of targeting only key ships (Gerrel and Xen's ships would be great starts).

Legion even went back on his word about using reaper tech.

No, no I'm done with the geth.

Are we really going to go over this again.  Tali and Legion met.  They talked.  Do you realise how fu*king stupid it is for organics to send diplomatic ships when they have no relationship with the Geth and continue to send them when they allegedly get shot down but when a Quarian and Geth are basically living down the hall from each other suddenly it is not a good time to talk?   

Legion lied.  Who gives a f**k.  Every organic in the game that has had more than a 5 minute conversation with Shepard has lied to him.  Furthermore, it is not a lie to change your mind.  Organics do it all the time.  Pretty sure Shepard thought he would never work for Cerberus then in ME2, he does.  That is why Ash and Kaiden get all pissy about it.  So give me a break circumstances change.  Pre Quarians trying to exterminate them Legion said he would never use Reaper tech.  Post Quarians trying to exterminate them and being hooked up to the Reaper tech against his will and seeing how great it could be, he changed his mind. 

Guess what any human faced with the extinction of his race would probably do the same.  Case in point, there is this ugly chic I know that wants to screw me that I have sworn I never would.  If we were the last two people on the planet because the Quarians decided they wanted to exterminate humans then yeah I would probably rethink that if it meant humanity survived.  See what I did there?

The rest of you post has been answered before.

Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 03:20 .

[remydat]

G Kevin wrote...

remydat wrote...

Seriously.  Talk about arrogance. 

Racist Council - Prove to me you deserve to exist and maybe just maybe I will lift the ban that caused the Quarians to try an exterminate you.

Geth - (puzzled look) WTF are these organics smoking?  That must be some d**n good weed.

Racist Council - I really mean it.  Prove to me you should exist or I will ban your existence,

Geth - (more puzzled look) WTF, must have moved on to that red sand.  You already banned our existence.

Racist Council - You are trying my patience.  Just be a good little ****** umm synthetic and do what I say.

Geth - (running some calculations) - F**k it remember those Heretic douchebags that want to leave the Consensus?  Just let them.

As far as we know, no communications ever took place between the Geth and anyone. If Geth actually tried, they could have sorted this out in the some 300 years they were isolated. Not putting effort into it does not excuse them as having a valid reason not too. That attitude is part of the reason the Geth are treated as hostiles.

You missed the point.  It was a humorous post designed to illustrate how stupid and borderline offensive it is to expect a vicitm of racism to have to prove their right to exist to a racist.

[G Kevin]

Ryzaki wrote...

Otherwise Quarians just worsened their situation. Their fleets can no longer leave the homeworld (and remember they still will need those supplies to even get started making their planet a home again), and they know have to deal with Reaper forces attacking and they can't run away. (There's no where to go).

...that's an improvement how exactly?

The fleets can leave. They have a food supply onboard and have most of the population on a planet that can readily grow food. If the fleet gets demolished in the war and we win, the Quarians don't go extinct because all their people were on their warships. They got better chances on the ground than in space. They can't run away in space either.

[Ryzaki]

G Kevin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And the second they put a large population of their people ANYWHERE they've essentially painted a target on their backs. The Reapers were leaving them alone for the most part because it was a nuisance to hunt them down and there wasn't enough.

With a homeworld? That's a ripe tasty fruit that's just ready to be plucked. Especially since the Reapers have far far superior ground troops to the Quarians.

It's foolishness. They were safer in the sky. Only reason I see Reapers NOT laying seige to Rannoch as soon as the Quarians start settling in is because they're more concerned with the Crucible and harvesting humanity.

I edited my previoust post but I will say it again.

The ground fighting is better than in space. The Quarians have to go through Mass Relays eventually because they cannot survive in space for a long time. The Reapers would just pick them off as that happens.

On Rannoch, they can just sit there and prolong the war just like the ground fighting on Earth and Palevan. They have a better chance fighting the ground force than they do of fighting in space. If the Geth fleet could wipe them out, the Reaper fleet would just demolish them with one go.

I'm sorry but everytime I see Quarians fighting on the ground they're getting owned. They get owned by freaking MECHS and Geth. WTF are they gonna do against Reapers?!? It's pretty much universally accepted that Quarians fighting on the ground is a bad idea because one suit puncture and they're screwed. This will still apply on Rannoch you realize? The Reapers'll have a far time steamrolling them in a planetside battle then somewhere they can reteat. And you keep saying that as if the Reapers'll be stalking them specifically. The Reapers have far far better things to do then follow the Quarian fleet around waiting for them to *maybe* use a specific relay. (And they can't follow past the relay as seen when Shep plays tag with em). They have the Normandy's stealth technology. As long as they're not being blatant they could survive.

They have a far higher chance of meeting Reaper ground troops then the entire Reaper fleet (which is busy doing other more important things like making more Reapers and attacking other homeworlds where they have bodies to process). In space at least they can retreat. Ground offers no such option. They do not have the population to afford a ground war with the Reapers. The price is a million per DAY (at best. With societies that are used to ground combat and don't get sick from a simple suit puncture). They simply can not afford such loses. They wouldn't last long.

[Iamjdr]

So you don't find it in the least bit strange at all that legion didn't agree with using reaper tech until AFTER he is found hooked up to it?

[Ryzaki]

G Kevin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Otherwise Quarians just worsened their situation. Their fleets can no longer leave the homeworld (and remember they still will need those supplies to even get started making their planet a home again), and they know have to deal with Reaper forces attacking and they can't run away. (There's no where to go).

...that's an improvement how exactly?

The fleets can leave. They have a food supply onboard and have most of the population on a planet that can readily grow food. If the fleet gets demolished in the war and we win, the Quarians don't go extinct because all their people were on their warships. They got better chances on the ground than in space. They can't run away in space either.

Not if they want to protect their homeworld (which should be under attack like EVERY OTHER species homeworld). No they cannot leave. They're stuck. If they do leave even *more* of their population will die. It'd be far far worse than the Geth ever could've been.

Having a homeworld in the reaper war means you're losing millions per day. That's the price of admission. The Quarians couldn't afford it.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 mars 2013 - 03:22 .

[G Kevin]

remydat wrote...

You missed the point.  It was a humorous post designed to illustrate how stupid and borderline offensive it is to expect a vicitm of racism to have to prove their right to exist to a racist.

What about the Civil Rights movement? They proved their right to equal treatment didn't they?

Why would the Geth be offended if they have a chance of improving their future on their own terms?

[silverexile17s]

Ryzaki wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Uhg. NO. It's not made with Reaper parts. It mimics the function, but it's NOT Reaper tech. Just an imitation. It's based off Reaper Tech, but isn't made with actuall Reaper parts.

Actual Reaper parts are eezo and metals. Things you know...could be replicated. The only part of a Reaper that *couldn't* be replicated you realize is the organic slushie part. You know the bit that's probably a Reaper's brain? That's the only bit of a Reaper that can't be created from things the known galaxy already has (as shown by the Collectors building baby Reaper in the omega 4 relay).(well techically it could but no one in their right mind would attempt to do so.)

If you're mimicking something completely to the fact that you're using the exact same materials...at that point it's Reaper tech.

If TIM had copied the HR from the Omega 4 relay and made a new one but complete? He'd made a Reaper using Reaper tech. (or at least a reaper shell. I like to think TIM wouldn't have put in the organic slushie part. I hope).

And the best tech avalible to the KNOWN galaxy. Reaper tech isn't COUNTED in the galaxy because no one believes in them. Besides, what you are doing is nothing but headcannon, as there is absolutly nothing that links the Lazarus Project with Reaper tech. Besides, Miranda tells you all about the tech, and never mentions it. Dr. Chakwas repeatedly examins you and never calls the implants Reaper tech. There is absolutly NOTHING that makes any connection with the implants and Reaper tech.

All of this is just wat.

First off "no one believes in them?" Again what? Really what? Did you read what you just wrote? Cerberus flat out says they believe in the Reapers several times. Shepard and his/her crew believe in em. This isn't a one time situation.

Miranda does not tell you all about the tech. If she does please link that conversation because all I got from her was a "I rebuilt you from scratch." not a technical explanation. Dr. Chakwas has about as much experience as Reaper tech as Hackett does if not less. She's a medbay doctor not a scientist she'd know enough if it was threatening Shep's health or not yes but whether it was Reaper tech? 

And WRONG again. Eevn if full paragon, then in the End sequence of ME3, when the commander gets hit by Harbinger's beams, the implant's are STILL red under the skin. So alingment has absolutly nothing to do with the color of those implants.

Uh...no they aren't. At all. Watch the vid you don't even see Shep's implants til control/synthesis if he/she is a paragon. Maybe you got the blood cuts confused with implants.

Only time you EVER see any of Shep's implants if he/she is a paragon is during the control/synthesis choices. Otherwise it's just really badly animated blood.

And WRONG. Sovergien glowed BLUE. The LIGHTING/ ELECTRICITY around it was red, from the mass effect field surrounding it. The actuall lights, if you look at an image of it were, you guessed it, BLUE.

And when he controlled Saren through his implants? 

Saren glowed RED. His image during his "you are nothing" speech? RED. That electricity was red yep. The blue glow was from EEZO. (which Reapers have to have hordes off to move/attack).

Harbinger does the same but with gold. Blue glow? EEZO. You'll notice the blue glow when they're moving..which is exactly when there eezo core would be working hardest.

And look at the mental differences. They look the same but are NOT the same.

And NO. they don't glow at all in the Control.Synthesis endings. They are dim grey. And simply placeholder stuff for the eye patterns. IDK if you realized, buy ME3 had a bit of a lazy development cycle.

I just watched both endings. They're blue. They're not grey. They're blue. They're not glowing to be fair but it's blue.

And the point is that it looks like a Human, but underneath, it's completely different.

And it was made to look like a human to infiltrated. Shep's implants have NO REASON to look like Reaper implants. None. Nadda. Zero.

And the Synthesis is created using the epitimy of space magic to disperse it's particals. Try and explain to me at all how Synthesis is possible to begin with, and THEN I'll see on working out coloring. But in all likelyhood, it was green for the sake of having a different color in the endings.

And if you look at a plan you drew up by looking at something, then used totally different parts and software to build it, then it works like the orginal thing you based it off of, but it isn't the same tech. It's just copyed.

I'm not getting into the validity of synthesis because I believe you on the space magic bit. But...

No it's blue I checked. Control and synthesis have the same color blue eyes that are a pretty dim version of TIM's.

It doesn't use different parts and software. (Not to mention the thanix probably wouldn't even have software). It uses the same eezo like core, the same basic bits.

TIM did the same thing with his husk copies...they're still Reaper tech. He had to use a mimicked Reaper control wave to control them.

And no there were no dragon's teeth were the husks were being made. They were being made in test tubes from obviously mimicked Reaper tech. I simply assume he did the same with those Rachni and the Banshees.

And this'll go on forever.

Even if you don't believe Shep has a reaper enhanced body point stands he has a Reaper enhanced Shep and a Reaper enhanced AI and is riding around freely with them so him crying about the geth using Reaper tech is still vastly hypocritical.

He is running around with the Reaper IFF in his ship. And that's defintely 100% ORIGINAL Reaper tech.

But that isn't true. It's not as powerfull, nor as capable as Reaper tech. No matter how much you make similar, it's always an imitation of the original example. Based off it, yes. But it ISN'T actual Reaper Tech. After all, mass accelerator weapons (every weapon ever made) are not Reaper tech, despite being based on their Mass Effect technology.

And I was talking about the rest of the galaxy. And most of the Reaper tech was captured by the Council. Very few examples were retained by Cerberus.
Besides, TIM stopped Miranda from placing a control chip in Shepard because he didn't want anything interfering in restoring Shepard "the same morals and personality." Reaper tech is consistantly shown to destroy both personalaty and moral. There is NO WAY TIM would risk putting the tech in Shepard to begin with. And besides, look at the Cerberus soldiers, which degrade with in months, weeks even, of implantataion. Don't you think the Reapers would have taken Shepard over by now if the tech inside him was Reaper tech?

...Oh, I get it. You're one of those "Indoctrination Theroy" believers, aren't you?
Look, I'm sorry, but that theroy is pretty much dead by now, isn't it?

And NO. Look at when Shepard enters the Conduit, and when Shepard is talking to TIM.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAShYP8ONAY
Multiple times, whenever you see the Commander, you see the implants glowing through the cuts on Shepard face. Go to 0:30 of the above vid on youtube. See the bright glowing marks on the side of the Commander's face where the scars were ripped open again? And on the other side throught the vid?
So sorry, but the implants ARE red, REAGRDLESS of alingmemt.

And WRONG.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cPSM6_aB7Y
Look at the lights on Saren's limbs and the cables connecting them. They are BLUE. Only the "aura" is Saren is red. It's frequently showen that Reaper "possession" swaths the target in an aura through the Mass Effect field. Harbinger's "aura" was yellow. Sovergiens is red. THAT'S what you are seeing. But look at the implants themselves. What collor are they? BLUE.

They are grey. And do not glow. And like I said, were done with the same pattern as placeholders. Like is said, lazy dev cycle.

And Like I already said, if TIM wasn't willing to risk a control implant, why do you think he'd risk Reaper tech?

And eezo is used by everything. Reapers included. By that definition of yours, EVERYTHING is basically Reaper tech. But real reaper tech is the technology that they can project the indoctrination signal with. That's been the constant with all Reaper tech seen thus far.

And again, that is soluy focused in EDI, which, as seen in the Citadel DLC, can be shut down/isolated from the Normandy quite easily, so that isn't a problem. Besides, look at Legion. That geth made the ballsy move of stealing Reaper codes and agumenting himself with them. He still turned out fine.

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

So you don't find it in the least bit strange at all that legion didn't agree with using reaper tech until AFTER he is found hooked up to it?

No I don't.  I didn't know what the big deal was about sex and then I had it for the first time I was like Holy Sh*t this is great.  Legion hooked up to Reaper Tech moved closer to becoming an individual.  I imagine it was a stunning epiphany for him and so he changed his mind.  OMG, what an evil bastard that he wants to be an individual.

Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 03:34 .

[G Kevin]

Ryzaki wrote...


Not if they want to protect their homeworld (which should be under attack like EVERY OTHER species homeworld). No they cannot leave. They're stuck. If they do leave even *more* of their population will die. It'd be far far worse than the Geth ever could've been.

And every other homeworld in the game is fighting the ground fight till the crucible wins the war for them. If you are going to die, better make it a good and long fight for the enemy. They can do that better on the ground.

It's just like the Alliance and every other fleet. They leave their homeworlds to form a united fleet. Why are the Quarians any different if they have a homeworld now?

[Ryzaki]

@silverexile17s ...you seriously just tried to use IT as an insult man? Right. Whatever. You keep thinking...whatever you do.  And yes the eyes are blue and if you bothered reading what you quoted you'd see I said they weren't glowing but keep on it. (oh cute you respond to the unedited version despite it being 5 hours later. Real cute. *that* makes your arguement more valid). Also all Reaper tech =/= indoctrination. Otherwise the Council would've been so. Or are you gonna deny the Citadel is Reaper tech? 

And yes buddy pretty much everything in ME universe is Reaper tech. Did you not get the point of the destroy ending??? (The original one had ALL ME advanced technology being destroyed. why? Because it was ALL reaper based. That's the foundation of the technology. It being used for something different doesn't stop it from being Reaper tech.) But honestly I'm done. You wanna try to insult me by slinging around IT believer like it's some badge of shame go ahead. And yes I'm no responding to your wall of text. Believe it a victory if you want to. *shrugs* I don't care at this point I lack the energy for this debate with your assumptions about what I believe. I could deal with the snark because hey I give as good as I get but the "lol IT believer?" Yeah you can screw yourself.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 mars 2013 - 04:03 .

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

So the Geth should just be welcomed into the galactic community with open arms after murdering over a billion quarians and taking there planets then hiding for 300 years with there first contact with the galaxy again is when there storming the citadel with sovereign?

The Quarians should be welcomed back because they responded to Council sanctioned racism by killing the racists. Because they were not evolved morally, non racist were likely killed as well because they let the racist win the day.   Moral of the story.  Stop being racist and you don''t have to die.

Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 03:25 .

[Ryzaki]

G Kevin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...


Not if they want to protect their homeworld (which should be under attack like EVERY OTHER species homeworld). No they cannot leave. They're stuck. If they do leave even *more* of their population will die. It'd be far far worse than the Geth ever could've been.

And every other homeworld in the game is fighting the ground fight till the crucible wins the war for them. If you are going to die, better make it a good and long fight for the enemy. They can do that better on the ground.

It's just like the Alliance and every other fleet. They leave their homeworlds to form a united fleet. Why are the Quarians any different if they have a homeworld now?

The price of admission I shall repeat is at least 1 million lives per day.

The Quarians? Don't they have 19 million people? 

So...this pretty much means...it'd take about a week to devastate their population. Last I checked Reaper war lasted a lot longer than a week.  Yeah that's a good long fight. LOL

The alliance and every other fleet have a lot more than 19 million members of their species. That's how. Humanity is spread across several planets (as is every other race). And not in miniscule numbers. They quite simply can afford those loses. (and even then it's STILL devastating.) 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 mars 2013 - 03:26 .

[remydat]

G Kevin wrote...

remydat wrote...

Incorrect, Legion said some of the Geth did not like the Old Machines.  Furthermore the Quarians last 300 years adrift in space and once again, the Reapers likely don't care to Reap a tiny population.  They are Reaping populations of billions not millions.  All getting Rannoch does is provide a quick little snack for a Reaper.  Their nomadic lifestyle makes it harder for Reapers to find them.  What dumb reapers is going to waste time chasing around a flotilla of 17 million people when it can pull up any galaxy map and find the location of a planet with BILLIONS OF PEOPLE on it?

Their nomadic lifestyle will not exist if everyone else is dead!

They need to trade for resources, the flotilla barely keeps itself afloat. Why do you think the Quarians get sent on their pilgramage? They don't have the resources to have a lot of people on the Migrant fleet unless you are useful.

The Reapers will kill everone. They don't need to find the fleet. They can just shutdown or Guard the Mass Relays until the Quarians are wiped out like everyone else.

Which is probably why they should have focused on assisting their allies instead of starting an unnecessary war.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

justafan wrote...

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

Of course the Quarians can win against false AI.

You could beat up your computer...however, if your computer gets true AI awareness, it will break you down on an emotion level by posting your naked pictures on the internet. I'm kidding, but you never know .

Lets face it, the only reason why anyone would pick Quarian is if Tali is Shepard's waifu. In an actual military scenario, the Geth will be more versatile. Simple.

Not necessarily.  Let's see the Geth evacuate a colony or transport food without any lifesupport.  Quarians are unrivaled in logistical capabilities.

A Geth Prime would destroy a Quarian any day of the weak. An Atlas mech took out a whole squad of Military Trained Quarians on Freedom's Progress. A Geth Prime is even more of a threat than an atlas. Not to mention the Geth ALLOWED the Quarians to live.

Geth > Quarians.

Simple physics. Survival of the Fittest.

There's more to this issue than an assessment of combat strength. There is no combat without logistics, and for all the value of a strong combat force, we're not going to win this thing conventionally. The Geth excel at combat, the Quarians excel at logistics. There is little crossover. One is weak where the other is strong.

Wholly independent of those considerations, trust  is a key factor.

If we can only choose one, who do we have more grounds to trust? Who will cover our backs when everything goes to hell? Who you choose to trust, and on what grounds, is entirely up to you. It's your universe. As for me, I look at the Quarians who just helped me kill a Reaper, then the Geth who signed up to help the Reapers conduct their harvest in exchange for delayed execution, and the answer is clear.

The Quarians excel at being weak! We already have some eggheads doing military plans etc. Is some scrappy ship going to harm the Reapers? They are pack rats, the Geth were nice enough not to annihilate the Quarians to zero. Yet the Quarians want to kill all the Geth?

Quarians made a mistake, a big one. Now they must bear it. You don't just say "sorry" for causing millions of deaths.

The Reapers can't be defeated with logic (c wat i did ther?) they have to be defeated by force/power.

To be honest, I actually trust the Geth more. They are machines, organics have strange motives. But any way, Quarian or Geth, no one is stupid enough to join the Reapers or rebel against the defenders. Did the Geth Prime start shooting at Shepard after Legion gave his life away and Tali for some stupid reason weak willingly commited suicide?

The good Geth helped Shepard as well. Each to his own I guess.

If you like the Quarians, go with them. if you like the Geth, go with them.
But if you want the most helping faction, go witht he Geth. They will protect organics. 

[Iamjdr]

What are you even talking about.

[G Kevin]

Ryzaki wrote...

The price of admission I shall repeat is at least 1 million lives per day.

The Quarians? Don't they have 19 million people? 

So...this pretty much means...it'd take about a week to devastate their population. Last I checked Reaper war lasted a lot longer than a week.  Yeah that's a good long fight. LOL

The alliance and every other fleet have a lot more than 19 million members of their species. That's how. Humanity is spread across several planets (as is every other race). And not in miniscule numbers. They quite simply can afford those loses. (and even then it's STILL devastating.) 

It's better than instantly being wiped out in space by a single Reaper fleet ( not like they need a fleet). Suit puncture on Rannoch won't be an instant death. Maybe get a cold or two, who knows. They used to live there. Only issue is that their immune system is worse than how it was when they were on Rannoch before.

Also, you did point out that the Reapers have bigger fish to fry, so they could just avoid Rannoch for a while.

There are a lot more council races that's why they have a lot more losses. Basically it's like a percentage lost per week. Higher population means more deaths.

[remydat]

G Kevin wrote...

remydat wrote...

You missed the point.  It was a humorous post designed to illustrate how stupid and borderline offensive it is to expect a vicitm of racism to have to prove their right to exist to a racist.

What about the Civil Rights movement? They proved their right to equal treatment didn't they?

Why would the Geth be offended if they have a chance of improving their future on their own terms?

Really dude?  The Civil Rights Movement was not about people proving to whites they had a right to exist.  It was about people DEMANDING the rights the Constitution guaranteed them be recognized.  It told them that was an inalienable right they earned by merely being alive.  ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.   The Council laws are racist for the very fact that it seeks to restrict synthetic life.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

tevix wrote...
They tried to wipe out all quarians. If the quarians didn't leave, they'd all be dead.
The geth destroyed peace ships and rejected offers of peace talks.
The geth allowed the heretics (a minor number of geth compared to their total) to attempt galactic genocide.
The geth accepted being used for galactic genocide for their own gains.
The geth were willing to wipe out ALL quarian ships, instead of targeting only key ships (Gerrel and Xen's ships would be great starts).

Legion even went back on his word about using reaper tech.

No, no I'm done with the geth.

1. And the Quarians rejected peace talks as well. What is this destroying of peace ships I hear?
2. Back then, Geth were not true AI. Now they are, that was a mistake of the Quarians and the Geth combined.
3. Wouldn't you do the same? They were going to be wiped out and had no purpose.
4. They were WILLING. If the Quarians kept pestering them, of course they would have destroyed them. If a moth keeps annoying you, you will probably hit it out of the air too.

Quarians disobeyed the Council. And Legion changed his opinion, probably after seeing EDI.

Do you hate EDI? Is she a killing machine that makes good jokes? No. She is a harmless machine that makes bad jokes.