4712 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

silverexile17s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And again, self-preservation programming could have been the reason for not wanting to die. Remember the virus that corrupted the self-preservation programming of those mechs in ME2 that you had to disable?
Any number of random corruptions of any number of programs could have resulted in what the geth did/said. AGAIN, FOR THE FINAL TIME, there was NO PROOF WHAT-SO -EVER that the geth were alive till AFTER they were attacked.

Well, multiple instances of "does this unit have a soul?" might have been expected to give someone a clue.

Anyone can ask questions. When a parrot repeats your words, does it do so for the sake of it, or because it understands the words it's using. Just because it uses those words, doesn't mean it understands the meaning behind them.

And... them explaining the reasoning behind the question thereafter wasn't at least a hint that the quarians might want to proceed carefully? Their government was clearly infected with stupidity lethal beyond any virus.

Whether or not it was conclusive proof to the geth being sapient is less important than it being a sign that they could be.

[Iamjdr]

I don't care if you black, so am I black Cuban with Irish and Native American to be exact and by the why your talking, you have never experienced racism or i dare say you wouldn't be throwing that word around like it's going out of style. Maybe once you have experienced real prejudice due to your skin color you might wake up.

Modifié par Iamjdr, 20 mars 2013 - 05:07 .

[silverexile17s]

Ryzaki wrote...

@silverexile17s ...you seriously just tried to use IT as an insult man? Right. Whatever. You keep thinking...whatever you do.  And yes the eyes are blue and if you bothered reading what you quoted you'd see I said they weren't glowing but keep on it. (oh cute you respond to the unedited version despite it being 5 hours later. Real cute. *that* makes your arguement more valid). Also all Reaper tech =/= indoctrination. Otherwise the Council would've been so. Or are you gonna deny the Citadel is Reaper tech? 

And yes buddy pretty much everything in ME universe is Reaper tech. Did you not get the point of the destroy ending??? (The original one had ALL ME advanced technology being destroyed. why? Because it was ALL reaper based. That's the foundation of the technology. It being used for something different doesn't stop it from being Reaper tech.) But honestly I'm done. You wanna try to insult me by slinging around IT believer like it's some badge of shame go ahead. And yes I'm no responding to your wall of text. Believe it a victory if you want to. *shrugs* I don't care at this point I lack the energy for this debate with your assumptions about what I believe. I could deal with the snark because hey I give as good as I get but the "lol IT believer?" Yeah you can screw yourself.

No. I wasn't using the IT as in insult. I was a supporter of it, but gave up hope on it after the Extended Cut came out. If anything, I wanted THAT to be the ending, and I wasn't using it as even a joke, let alone an insult.
God, I never thought you would take that so seriously.

And again, that the Citadel isn't indoctrinating anybody is because it's spicifcially built for organics to use. They don't want  to minipulate the development anymore then they already have.

I was NEVER trying to insult you. I simply do not get your belief on Shepard's implants when, like I said before, TIM would never have allowed anything that could potentally mess with Shepard's personalaty and morals. Which Reaper implants would. He learned his lesson from what happened to Paul Grayson, right?

Modifié par silverexile17s, 20 mars 2013 - 05:05 .

[Only-Twin]

And... them explaining the reasoning behind the question thereafter wasn't at least a hint that the quarians might want to proceed carefully? Their government was clearly infected with stupidity lethal beyond any virus.

Whether or not it was conclusive proof to the geth being sapient is less important than it being a sign that they could be.

You have to consider the shock it created. These machines they created to be simple VIs had suddenly and unexpectedly shown signs of sapience. Just take a moment and think about how significant that is. They had accidentally brought sapient beings into existence, which could have some extreme cultural ramifications, let alone the fact that this was very, very illegal.

Ultimately I think it was the wrong decision to make, but I understand why they felt they needed to deactivate the geth. It was the wrong decision in the end, but I see why they acted the way they did.

[silverexile17s]

Xilizhra wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And again, self-preservation programming could have been the reason for not wanting to die. Remember the virus that corrupted the self-preservation programming of those mechs in ME2 that you had to disable?
Any number of random corruptions of any number of programs could have resulted in what the geth did/said. AGAIN, FOR THE FINAL TIME, there was NO PROOF WHAT-SO -EVER that the geth were alive till AFTER they were attacked.

Well, multiple instances of "does this unit have a soul?" might have been expected to give someone a clue.

Anyone can ask questions. When a parrot repeats your words, does it do so for the sake of it, or because it understands the words it's using. Just because it uses those words, doesn't mean it understands the meaning behind them.

And... them explaining the reasoning behind the question thereafter wasn't at least a hint that the quarians might want to proceed carefully? Their government was clearly infected with stupidity lethal beyond any virus.

Whether or not it was conclusive proof to the geth being sapient is less important than it being a sign that they could be.

Just saying that you know where you got it doesn't constitute being alive. And the geth said "we learned it ourselves," is only indicitive that they remember. They aren't alive just because of that.

And it was the fear that they could be  alive that started this. If they were, then the Council would have their heads for it. If they didn't kill the geth, the Council would come in and do it, and ruin their lives in the process. If there is ANYONE to blame for it, it's the morally bankrupt Council and their prejudiced laws. THEY were the cause of the quarian's panic. I'll bet you anything that if those laws didn't exist, the quarians would have been actively educating the geth and TRYING to make them into living beings.

Blame the COUNCIL, not the quarians.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 20 mars 2013 - 05:09 .

[Xilizhra]

Only-Twin wrote...

And... them explaining the reasoning behind the question thereafter wasn't at least a hint that the quarians might want to proceed carefully? Their government was clearly infected with stupidity lethal beyond any virus.

Whether or not it was conclusive proof to the geth being sapient is less important than it being a sign that they could be.

You have to consider the shock it created. These machines they created to be simple VIs had suddenly and unexpectedly shown signs of sapience. Just take a moment and think about how significant that is. They had accidentally brought sapient beings into existence, which could have some extreme cultural ramifications, let alone the fact that this was very, very illegal.

Ultimately I think it was the wrong decision to make, but I understand why they felt they needed to deactivate the geth. It was the wrong decision in the end, but I see why they acted the way they did.

I can see why too. I'll still call the instigators of the policy brutal idiots who left the galaxy better by their deaths.

And it was the fear that they could be  alive that started this. If they
were, then the Council would have their heads for it. If there is
ANYONE to blame for it, it's the morally bankrupt Council and their
prejudiced laws. THEY were the cause of the quarian's panic. I'll bet
you anything that if those laws didn't exist, the quarians would have
been actively educating the geth and TRYING to make them into living
beings.

Strangely, the quarians themselves never mention the Council as a factor into their decision-making at all, instead fully owning and defending the attempt to wipe out the geth. Additionally, the quarians' punishment from the Council seems to be largely based on, in fact, their attempt to do so. I see nothing to really support fear of the Council as a motivation.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 20 mars 2013 - 05:11 .

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Animals think too. Doens't make them sapiant. And if you think, that means you need to have a concince.
And that's all irrelevent, as that idea of yours STILL doesn't apply to the geth, as they have no individuals, until AFTER being augmented by Reaper code.
Besides, AGAIN FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME, no one knew the geth were sapiant to BEGIN WITH. WHY do you think the quarians were so gung-ho about the extermination to begin with? They wouldn't have hit so hard if they knew the geth were sapiant. It wasn't intented to be genocide, since NO ONE KNEW of the geth's sapiance, therefore they were not seen as anything more then fancy mechs, and therefore, machines that didn't have free will. So STOP with this BS. If the quarians knew the geth were sapiant, things might have been different. But they DIDN'T, so stop saying they did. No one has the right to judge living beings, but what about when you DON'T KNOW they are living beings? What then? Me and DenyonSlayer have spent 40+ pages trying to get the notion through to you without sucess. The quarians went off the information they had at the time, which had NOTHING indicating that the geth were sentiant. Pahntomimeing life, maybe, but NOTHING that showed they were sapiant.

And incorrcect. The geth are the servents in a household. They were "brought up" by the heads of house to be nothing more and nothing less then servents.
And they didn't NEED to explain. The geth had full access to the extranet and the quarians ancestoral archives. They had all the information and definition they needed, so that point rings completely false. They were pre-programed with information about their culture. After all, they would make a poor servent race without that information.
The protestors resisted the government agains shutting off the geth souly because they were tools to advance the culture. No one was protecting the geth because they saw the geth as living beings. They were protecting the geth because they saw them as necessary tools needed to advance the economy and industry. Only a FEW ever saw them as more, but the majority of protesters never saw them as alive. NO ONE knew they were truly sapiant till after the retaliation against the quarian attack.
And since the geth accepted the Reaper upgrades at the end of the Rannoch arch and did exactally what the Heretics wanted to do, they followed the Heretic's path anyway. So YES, they are the same breed. As much the same race as Cerberus and the Alliance are to each-other - comprised of the same race.
And it's wrong for the Alliance to not take responcibility for it's extremeists, yet the geth get a free pass for doing the same. You yourself say people should fess up. The geth should have done so then, by your own logic.

And I ALREADY RESPONDED. They DON'T have proper food as they fight the geth. That's why they are so desperate to end the war quickly - because they don't have the resources for a long, drawn-out conflict. They expected the geth to fall in less then a few days. They never expected the Reaper upgrades. Or to be trapped in the Tikkun system, under constant attack on all fronts. The whole point is that they cannot last, which is the entire reason Shepard is called in at all. The food is already strained by having to constantly balance it out between other resources. Wartime throws that all into chaos, and makes things ever harder to maintain.
And as they are launching an attack, most of the food storage is likely replaced by medical and repair material storage. They probably didn't bother stockpiling lots of food for the invasion, because they expected to have a whole planet of food within days. They didn't expect the weeks-long beating by the Reaper-infused geth.

And they TRIED. Tali tried to make the attempt, but no one thought the geth could be trusted after the Battle of the Citadel. Gerrel wasn't willing to trust a race that, from what the wider galaxy believed, were allied with the Reapers. Raan thought that there was too much bad blood for any peace to be formed. Xen never saw the geth as alive to begin with and didn't take it serious. Koris was the only one that agreed.
And before anything could continue from there, Legion - not the quarians, Legion - cut all contact because the geth were making preperations for defense. Tali never brought the possibility up again because Legion never got back into contact with her.
So DEAD WRONG. NO DOUBLE STANDARD PRESANT.
TRY AGAIN.

And if that's yoru belief, then go to a car factory, tell that same sentance to the forman, and be promptly dragged to the completely automated factoring and assembly lines, and be lectured about how impossible that is.
Automation is part of indistruy. It's as necessessary as evolution itself. Find me a modern factory right here on Earth that isn't automated in one way or another.
Machine assistance and automatic industry is what all races strive to achive. You can't fault the quarians for something that we ourselves strive to do day and night. They had absolutly NO CLUE about the risks. They would never have attempted if they did. They thought it WAS completely safe, because the geth were built as basic V.I.s, NO DIFFERENT then the AVINA V.I. on the Citadel.
And AGAIN, you IGNORE WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD. The quarians had no clue about the geth's sapiance, and even if they did, the Council would never have allowed the geth to live. What you FAIL to comprehend is that even if the geth were accepted by the quarians, they would never be accepted by the Council. If the quarians actiually HAD reconized them as living beings, the Council would have seen it as treason, and would have likely declared war on both, and wiped out the geth and left the quarians despondant.
Had the quarians fessed up to the Council, then the Council would have attacked, wiped out the geth, and made the quarians lives complete hell.
NONE of your convaluted assumptions would have worked. The Council would have killed the geth anyway in your scenarios. You REALLY think that someone would trade the future of their entire race, for a group that no one knows is even alive?.
Get real.

And "I think therefore I am," doens't even HAVE any bearing on the geth, because they AREN'T individuals. Not till the Reaper's go to town on them. So NO, that has NOTHING to do with them.

If all the chickens in the world could talk and they told me why do you eat me then guess what I would stop eating chickens.  I wouldn't kill them.  Maybe that is just me.  In fact, I would then advocate and protest the eating of chickens because I am now aware that chickens are sentient.

And once again I don't care about what the Quarians thought.  For the final time, if a toaster begging the Quaraians not to throw it away isn't enough evidence for the Quarians that they shouldn't just kill it then they are amoral douchebags.  So you stop with the BS.  My morals are not negotiable just because you want them to be.  Believe what you want and I will believe what I want.  The Quarians were amoral douchebags that tried to use a technicality to kill things that begged not to be killed.  Game over in my book.  I repeat GAME OVER.

The rest of your post has been addressed ad naseum so I see no reason to repeat it.  But let me say this one more time so you don't spend another 40 pages trying to convince me.  The Quarians were amoral douchebags that tried to use a technicality to kill things that begged not to be killed.  Game over in my book.  I repeat GAME OVER.

INCORRECT. If you try that then you have NO concept of what "I think therefore I am" truly means. Or the premise of survival and desperation at all.

And again, self-preservation programming could have been the reason for not wanting to die. Remember the virus that corrupted the self-preservation programming of those mechs in ME2 that you had to disable?
Any number of random corruptions of any number of programs could have resulted in what the geth did/said. AGAIN, FOR THE FINAL TIME, there was NO PROOF WHAT-SO -EVER that the geth were alive till AFTER they were attacked.

So NO. The quarians are no worse the the GETH are. They were driven to desperation because the only other alternitive is to let the Council ruin their lives and drop them into an economic depression that would have reduced them to third-world life.
The quarians were driven to desperation. The geth were too. And therefore, the geth are JUST as much "douchbags."
THAT is your "GAME OVER." So let me REPEAT that.

]The geth are NO better then the quarians. The quarians did what they did for the same desperation at the geth. Therefore, they are not amoral.
GAME OVER. YOU LOSE.

I am going to probably offend more people but oh well.  I am pro-life.  It is irresponsible to me for someone to make a mistake and then decide to abort a child instead of dealing with it.  I find it amoral except when a mother's life is threatened or rape.  If you are pro choice then there is no point in trying to convince me of that just like there is no point in me trying to convince you to be pro life.  That is a philosophical divide that simply will not be closed. 

The Quarians made a mistake and then tried to abort it on the grounds that well it is not life yet when they knew full well if left alone it was on the path to sentience.  Like I said Game Over.  There is nothing more anyone can say to me that will change my views.   We can freely discuss and share ideas on our views but stop trying to convince me of something that simply I cannot be convinced of.  I am not trying to get you change your opinion.  I am telling you mine so why don't you just tell me yours instead of trying to convert me.  Ain't going to happen.

[justafan]

Now now, let's not let not get this thread locked thanks to real-world discussions of racism. The only discussion of racism allowed here is the fictional kind of the suit rat, toaster, big stupid jellyfish variety.

[Megaton_Hope]

justafan wrote...

Now now, let's not let not get this thread locked thanks to real-world discussions of racism. The only discussion of racism allowed here is the fictional kind of the suit rat, toaster, big stupid jellyfish variety.

Blasted murdering jellyfish, they deserved what they got.

[Xilizhra]

I am going to probably offend more people but oh well. I am pro-life. It is irresponsible to me for someone to make a mistake and then decide to abort a child instead of dealing with it. I find it amoral except when a mother's life is threatened or rape. If you are pro choice then there is no point in trying to convince me of that just like there is no point in me trying to convince you to be pro life. That is a philosophical divide that simply will not be closed.

There's no reason for the "rape" exception if you genuinely believe that it's murder, except that you're willing to ignore your own alleged principles for the sake of political expedience. Which is something I always find amusing coming from my political opponents, so continue on, and may you continue to fail.

[justafan]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

justafan wrote...

Now now, let's not let not get this thread locked thanks to real-world discussions of racism. The only discussion of racism allowed here is the fictional kind of the suit rat, toaster, big stupid jellyfish variety.

Blasted murdering jellyfish, they deserved what they got.

You humans are ALL racist! 

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

I don't care if you black, so am I black Cuban with Irish and Native American to be exact and by the why your talking, you have never experienced racism or i dare say you wouldn't be throwing that word around like it's going out of style. Maybe once you have experienced real prejudice due to your skin color you might wake up.

Oh please don't presume to know me or my experiences.  You are free to have your views as a black person and I am free to have my views as a black person.  We are not a Geth collective and we will not see eye to eye just because we happen to have a similar ethnic background.  You find it offensive ok then ignore it.  I don't find it offensive and I will not censor myself because someone on the internet who I don't know and likely will never meet gets offended. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior

Of course the above definiton does not contemplate aliens or synthetics but it is clear the Council believes synthetic life is less desirable.  They are racist by the above defintion, end of story.

[silverexile17s]

Xilizhra wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

And... them explaining the reasoning behind the question thereafter wasn't at least a hint that the quarians might want to proceed carefully? Their government was clearly infected with stupidity lethal beyond any virus.

Whether or not it was conclusive proof to the geth being sapient is less important than it being a sign that they could be.

You have to consider the shock it created. These machines they created to be simple VIs had suddenly and unexpectedly shown signs of sapience. Just take a moment and think about how significant that is. They had accidentally brought sapient beings into existence, which could have some extreme cultural ramifications, let alone the fact that this was very, very illegal.

Ultimately I think it was the wrong decision to make, but I understand why they felt they needed to deactivate the geth. It was the wrong decision in the end, but I see why they acted the way they did.

I can see why too. I'll still call the instigators of the policy brutal idiots who left the galaxy better by their deaths.

And it was the fear that they could be  alive that started this. If they
were, then the Council would have their heads for it. If there is
ANYONE to blame for it, it's the morally bankrupt Council and their
prejudiced laws. THEY were the cause of the quarian's panic. I'll bet
you anything that if those laws didn't exist, the quarians would have
been actively educating the geth and TRYING to make them into living
beings.

Strangely, the quarians themselves never mention the Council as a factor into their decision-making at all, instead fully owning and defending the attempt to wipe out the geth. Additionally, the quarians' punishment from the Council seems to be largely based on, in fact, their attempt to do so. I see nothing to really support fear of the Council as a motivation.

Yet, Council law was the reason the quarians tried to elimanate the geth. The Council would have had their heads for creating A.I.s. The fear of that was what bread their fear of the geth being sapiant. Hence the attempt to kill them.

[Xilizhra]

Yet, Council law was the reason the quarians tried to elimanate the geth. The Council would have had their heads for creating A.I.s. The fear of that was what bread their fear of the geth being sapiant. Hence the attempt to kill them.

So when do the quarians mention Council law as a reason to kill the geth?

In any case, the Council really, really hates large-scale warfare and does everything it can to avoid it. Quarian society wouldn't be in any physical danger.

[remydat]

Xilizhra wrote...

I am going to probably offend more people but oh well. I am pro-life. It is irresponsible to me for someone to make a mistake and then decide to abort a child instead of dealing with it. I find it amoral except when a mother's life is threatened or rape. If you are pro choice then there is no point in trying to convince me of that just like there is no point in me trying to convince you to be pro life. That is a philosophical divide that simply will not be closed.

There's no reason for the "rape" exception if you genuinely believe that it's murder, except that you're willing to ignore your own alleged principles for the sake of political expedience. Which is something I always find amusing coming from my political opponents, so continue on, and may you continue to fail.

Go read my objection again.  I said I opposed someone making a mistake and then deciding to abort it.  Rape is not a mistake on the part of a women.  Your error is assuming everyone who is pro life objects to it for the same reason.

I can understand there is a distinction between potential life and actual life.  However irresponsbility is no excuse to terminate potential life.  Being forced to have sex against your will and getting pregnant with your rapist's child is.  So there is nothing politically expedient about it.

Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 05:27 .

[Iamjdr]

Sorry I just don't like it when people use words like racism, rape, and genocide to make there argument sound more valid. If your gonna use such a weighted word you sure as hell better understand why it has so much weight in the first place. The sad part is you even posted the definition of the word and you still don't get how wrong you are. I think the word your really looking for is prejudice.

[Xilizhra]

remydat wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I am going to probably offend more people but oh well. I am pro-life. It is irresponsible to me for someone to make a mistake and then decide to abort a child instead of dealing with it. I find it amoral except when a mother's life is threatened or rape. If you are pro choice then there is no point in trying to convince me of that just like there is no point in me trying to convince you to be pro life. That is a philosophical divide that simply will not be closed.

There's no reason for the "rape" exception if you genuinely believe that it's murder, except that you're willing to ignore your own alleged principles for the sake of political expedience. Which is something I always find amusing coming from my political opponents, so continue on, and may you continue to fail.

Go read my objection again.  I said I opposed someone making a mistake and then deciding to abort it.  Rape is not a mistake on the part of a women.  Your error is assuming everyone who is pro life objects to it for the same reason.

I can understand there is a distinction between potential life and actual life.  However irresponsbility is no excuse to terminate potential life.  Bbeing forced to have sex against your will and getting pregnant with your rapist's child is.  So there is nothing political expedient about it.  This is the problem when people delve into such topics.  People are so quick to make assumptions and not engage in discussion about these topics.

Well, you pretty much said outright that any actual discussion would be fruitless, so I figured I wouldn't lose anything by resorting to mockery. Regardless, here your standards just seem highly arbitrary. I personally don't give a crap how it happened; a child being forced to exist as a punishment isn't a good start for either child or parent, and not one generally worth starting to begin with.

[justafan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yet, Council law was the reason the quarians tried to elimanate the geth. The Council would have had their heads for creating A.I.s. The fear of that was what bread their fear of the geth being sapiant. Hence the attempt to kill them.

So when do the quarians mention Council law as a reason to kill the geth?

In any case, the Council really, really hates large-scale warfare and does everything it can to avoid it. Quarian society wouldn't be in any physical danger.

I wouldn't say that, the Turians have never shied away from a fight.  They threatened orbital bombardment against Quarian settlers on Ekuna, and attacked without warning an unknown species activating dormant relays.  A similar "policing action" would not be out of the question if they found out the Quarians accidently broke the AI law.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Animals think too. Doens't make them sapiant. And if you think, that means you need to have a concince.
And that's all irrelevent, as that idea of yours STILL doesn't apply to the geth, as they have no individuals, until AFTER being augmented by Reaper code.
Besides, AGAIN FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME, no one knew the geth were sapiant to BEGIN WITH. WHY do you think the quarians were so gung-ho about the extermination to begin with? They wouldn't have hit so hard if they knew the geth were sapiant. It wasn't intented to be genocide, since NO ONE KNEW of the geth's sapiance, therefore they were not seen as anything more then fancy mechs, and therefore, machines that didn't have free will. So STOP with this BS. If the quarians knew the geth were sapiant, things might have been different. But they DIDN'T, so stop saying they did. No one has the right to judge living beings, but what about when you DON'T KNOW they are living beings? What then? Me and DenyonSlayer have spent 40+ pages trying to get the notion through to you without sucess. The quarians went off the information they had at the time, which had NOTHING indicating that the geth were sentiant. Pahntomimeing life, maybe, but NOTHING that showed they were sapiant.

And incorrcect. The geth are the servents in a household. They were "brought up" by the heads of house to be nothing more and nothing less then servents.
And they didn't NEED to explain. The geth had full access to the extranet and the quarians ancestoral archives. They had all the information and definition they needed, so that point rings completely false. They were pre-programed with information about their culture. After all, they would make a poor servent race without that information.
The protestors resisted the government agains shutting off the geth souly because they were tools to advance the culture. No one was protecting the geth because they saw the geth as living beings. They were protecting the geth because they saw them as necessary tools needed to advance the economy and industry. Only a FEW ever saw them as more, but the majority of protesters never saw them as alive. NO ONE knew they were truly sapiant till after the retaliation against the quarian attack.
And since the geth accepted the Reaper upgrades at the end of the Rannoch arch and did exactally what the Heretics wanted to do, they followed the Heretic's path anyway. So YES, they are the same breed. As much the same race as Cerberus and the Alliance are to each-other - comprised of the same race.
And it's wrong for the Alliance to not take responcibility for it's extremeists, yet the geth get a free pass for doing the same. You yourself say people should fess up. The geth should have done so then, by your own logic.

And I ALREADY RESPONDED. They DON'T have proper food as they fight the geth. That's why they are so desperate to end the war quickly - because they don't have the resources for a long, drawn-out conflict. They expected the geth to fall in less then a few days. They never expected the Reaper upgrades. Or to be trapped in the Tikkun system, under constant attack on all fronts. The whole point is that they cannot last, which is the entire reason Shepard is called in at all. The food is already strained by having to constantly balance it out between other resources. Wartime throws that all into chaos, and makes things ever harder to maintain.
And as they are launching an attack, most of the food storage is likely replaced by medical and repair material storage. They probably didn't bother stockpiling lots of food for the invasion, because they expected to have a whole planet of food within days. They didn't expect the weeks-long beating by the Reaper-infused geth.

And they TRIED. Tali tried to make the attempt, but no one thought the geth could be trusted after the Battle of the Citadel. Gerrel wasn't willing to trust a race that, from what the wider galaxy believed, were allied with the Reapers. Raan thought that there was too much bad blood for any peace to be formed. Xen never saw the geth as alive to begin with and didn't take it serious. Koris was the only one that agreed.
And before anything could continue from there, Legion - not the quarians, Legion - cut all contact because the geth were making preperations for defense. Tali never brought the possibility up again because Legion never got back into contact with her.
So DEAD WRONG. NO DOUBLE STANDARD PRESANT.
TRY AGAIN.

And if that's yoru belief, then go to a car factory, tell that same sentance to the forman, and be promptly dragged to the completely automated factoring and assembly lines, and be lectured about how impossible that is.
Automation is part of indistruy. It's as necessessary as evolution itself. Find me a modern factory right here on Earth that isn't automated in one way or another.
Machine assistance and automatic industry is what all races strive to achive. You can't fault the quarians for something that we ourselves strive to do day and night. They had absolutly NO CLUE about the risks. They would never have attempted if they did. They thought it WAS completely safe, because the geth were built as basic V.I.s, NO DIFFERENT then the AVINA V.I. on the Citadel.
And AGAIN, you IGNORE WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD. The quarians had no clue about the geth's sapiance, and even if they did, the Council would never have allowed the geth to live. What you FAIL to comprehend is that even if the geth were accepted by the quarians, they would never be accepted by the Council. If the quarians actiually HAD reconized them as living beings, the Council would have seen it as treason, and would have likely declared war on both, and wiped out the geth and left the quarians despondant.
Had the quarians fessed up to the Council, then the Council would have attacked, wiped out the geth, and made the quarians lives complete hell.
NONE of your convaluted assumptions would have worked. The Council would have killed the geth anyway in your scenarios. You REALLY think that someone would trade the future of their entire race, for a group that no one knows is even alive?.
Get real.

And "I think therefore I am," doens't even HAVE any bearing on the geth, because they AREN'T individuals. Not till the Reaper's go to town on them. So NO, that has NOTHING to do with them.

If all the chickens in the world could talk and they told me why do you eat me then guess what I would stop eating chickens.  I wouldn't kill them.  Maybe that is just me.  In fact, I would then advocate and protest the eating of chickens because I am now aware that chickens are sentient.

And once again I don't care about what the Quarians thought.  For the final time, if a toaster begging the Quaraians not to throw it away isn't enough evidence for the Quarians that they shouldn't just kill it then they are amoral douchebags.  So you stop with the BS.  My morals are not negotiable just because you want them to be.  Believe what you want and I will believe what I want.  The Quarians were amoral douchebags that tried to use a technicality to kill things that begged not to be killed.  Game over in my book.  I repeat GAME OVER.

The rest of your post has been addressed ad naseum so I see no reason to repeat it.  But let me say this one more time so you don't spend another 40 pages trying to convince me.  The Quarians were amoral douchebags that tried to use a technicality to kill things that begged not to be killed.  Game over in my book.  I repeat GAME OVER.

INCORRECT. If you try that then you have NO concept of what "I think therefore I am" truly means. Or the premise of survival and desperation at all.

And again, self-preservation programming could have been the reason for not wanting to die. Remember the virus that corrupted the self-preservation programming of those mechs in ME2 that you had to disable?
Any number of random corruptions of any number of programs could have resulted in what the geth did/said. AGAIN, FOR THE FINAL TIME, there was NO PROOF WHAT-SO -EVER that the geth were alive till AFTER they were attacked.

So NO. The quarians are no worse the the GETH are. They were driven to desperation because the only other alternitive is to let the Council ruin their lives and drop them into an economic depression that would have reduced them to third-world life.
The quarians were driven to desperation. The geth were too. And therefore, the geth are JUST as much "douchbags."
THAT is your "GAME OVER." So let me REPEAT that.

]The geth are NO better then the quarians. The quarians did what they did for the same desperation at the geth. Therefore, they are not amoral.
GAME OVER. YOU LOSE.

I am going to probably offend more people but oh well.  I am pro-life.  It is irresponsible to me for someone to make a mistake and then decide to abort a child instead of dealing with it.  I find it amoral except when a mother's life is threatened or rape.  If you are pro choice then there is no point in trying to convince me of that just like there is no point in me trying to convince you to be pro life.  That is a philosophical divide that simply will not be closed. 

The Quarians made a mistake and then tried to abort it on the grounds that well it is not life yet when they knew full well if left alone it was on the path to sentience.  Like I said Game Over.  There is nothing more anyone can say to me that will change my views.   We can freely discuss and share ideas on our views but stop trying to convince me of something that simply I cannot be convinced of.  I am not trying to get you change your opinion.  I am telling you mine so why don't you just tell me yours instead of trying to convert me.  Ain't going to happen.

No. You are NOT. You are prejudiced against it.
You yourself claimed that every synthetic uprising is by default the fault of orgnaics. You have shown nothing but ANTI-sentiments to "pro-life."
They didn't make a mistake, because their entire race was riding on it. You NEVER think on the ramafacations of it, do you? You really think the Council would buy into any of this, even if the quarians DID believe the geth were sapiant at the time? No. They would wipe them out themselves. And make the quarians pay hell for it. Then they would be in the same position anyway. And the geth would be DEAD in that future. so how's that work out for you? It's like telling a state guard that you smuggled an immigrant illegally across the border to escape abusive parents/spouse. They aren't going to care about the morals of it, bucause the law won't let them, and by law, you go to jail and the immagrant goes back to the living hell. All beacuse you fessed up to the border guard. Then where is your "take responcibility like a mature adult" come in? Life is NOT as clear-cut as that.
You see everything as FAR to black and white, NEVER seeing the gray in between. The problem here - what the problem ALWAYS has been -  was that you fault the quarians for the mistakes and prejudices of the Council, and the fears of retaliation from them that spurned them to panic and place their own survival and well being ahead of the geth, to the point that even if the DID believe the geth were sentiant, they would have still attacked to save their people from Council retaliation.
Like I said, the GAME OVER is in YOUR beliefs, as you are too inflexible to see that NOTHING is as cut and dry as  what you headcannon yourself into believeing it to be.

[Hazegurl]

In my opinion (changed from personally because I'm not speaking from experience), irresponsibility is the perfect reason for an abortion. No child should have the misfortune of being raised by an irresponsible parent. I wish we lived in a world where a person would just wise up after making a mistake like this, but sadly we don't live in that world. Recently, I was watching Rupaul's Drag Race and one of the competitors began to cry mentioning that his mother left him and his sister at a bus stop when he was five. She just abandoned her children. Then when you hear about mothers being so scared they wrap their babies up in garbage bags and leave them to die in dumpsters... I'm not trying to change your mind, I don't care who is pro life or not. But I do wish that all these prolife people stop talking and demanding that everyone live by their laws while not getting off their rear to provide any support system for young mothers et al.

Instead they just want to point fingers and say "Your mistake you raise it and take responsibility!" Well, sometimes taking responsibility is an abortion.

However, staying on topic. I have sided with the Geth a lot when I couldn't pass the checks. The Geth are smart, seem more reliable than the Quarians, and with the upgrades they can fight the reapers forever. The Geth were the very few races who took the reaper invasion seriously and was preparing for it. Everyone else allowed their own selfish desires and politics stand in the way of the real threat. I just wanted to shake everyone and scream that we have a real problem here, these bastards are here to wipe us all out like they did the freaking protheans you ****es!

The Geth can also help future organic races by providing them with first hand knowledge of the reapers et al. There are just too many advantages to pass up by killing them. The worst case scenario is that the Geth wipe out the reapers and take over as the new overlords of the galaxy.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 20 mars 2013 - 05:42 .

[Xilizhra]

justafan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Yet, Council law was the reason the quarians tried to elimanate the geth. The Council would have had their heads for creating A.I.s. The fear of that was what bread their fear of the geth being sapiant. Hence the attempt to kill them.

So when do the quarians mention Council law as a reason to kill the geth?

In any case, the Council really, really hates large-scale warfare and does everything it can to avoid it. Quarian society wouldn't be in any physical danger.

I wouldn't say that, the Turians have never shied away from a fight.  They threatened orbital bombardment against Quarian settlers on Ekuna, and attacked without warning an unknown species activating dormant relays.  A similar "policing action" would not be out of the question if they found out the Quarians accidently broke the AI law.

Ekuna is bull**** for numerous reasons (mostly that it seems to be in the Terminus systems where the Council wouldn't care what the quarians were doing, and that the planet isn't even suitable to quarian habitation apparently) and I'm considering it noncanon in the same way that Gei Hinnom's planetary log entry is, mentioning the planet as a lifeless desert when you land in a varren-filled jungle.  The attack on the Alliance was because opening relays could lead to a much larger war than the one it'd take to stop them. There'd be no point in attacking Rannoch if the geth weren't violent; there'd certainly be a massive headache to sort out, but no need for violence.

[silverexile17s]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yet, Council law was the reason the quarians tried to elimanate the geth. The Council would have had their heads for creating A.I.s. The fear of that was what bread their fear of the geth being sapiant. Hence the attempt to kill them.

So when do the quarians mention Council law as a reason to kill the geth?

In any case, the Council really, really hates large-scale warfare and does everything it can to avoid it. Quarian society wouldn't be in any physical danger.

They would levy harsh scanctions against them. In the book "Mass Effect: Revelation", the Council puts scanctions on the Alliance for creating the A.I. "Eliza" at Gagarian Station. That's just one A.I.
What do you think the punishment for creating millions is?

That's what the quarians are afraid of. The Council's laws are the ones that declare A.I.s illegal.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 20 mars 2013 - 05:35 .

[remydat]

Iamjdr wrote...

Sorry I just don't like it when people use words like racism, rape, and genocide to make there argument sound more valid. If your gonna use such a weighted word you sure as hell better understand why it has so much weight in the first place. The sad part is you even posted the definition of the word and you still don't get how wrong you are. I think the word your really looking for is prejudice.

Well I am sorry you are offended but I use words I think apply and I think it applies.  Racism is simply a form of prejudice. 

Having said that, I have no problem with using prejudice so will try and do so going forward.

[Xilizhra]

silverexile17s wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Yet, Council law was the reason the quarians tried to elimanate the geth. The Council would have had their heads for creating A.I.s. The fear of that was what bread their fear of the geth being sapiant. Hence the attempt to kill them.

So when do the quarians mention Council law as a reason to kill the geth?

In any case, the Council really, really hates large-scale warfare and does everything it can to avoid it. Quarian society wouldn't be in any physical danger.

They would levy harsh scanctions against them. In the book "Mass Effect: Revelation", the Council puts scanctions on the Alliance for creating the A.I. "Eliza" at Gagarian Station. That's just one A.I.
What do you think the punishment for creating millions is?

That's what the quarians are afraid of. The Council's laws are the ones that declare A.I.s illegal.

Ah, yes, sanctions. Commit genocide for economic expedience, everyone! Even though we were the ones who genuinely screwed up and probably earned the damn things to begin with, at least if we're buying into Council law!

[silverexile17s]

Xilizhra wrote...

justafan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Yet, Council law was the reason the quarians tried to elimanate the geth. The Council would have had their heads for creating A.I.s. The fear of that was what bread their fear of the geth being sapiant. Hence the attempt to kill them.

So when do the quarians mention Council law as a reason to kill the geth?

In any case, the Council really, really hates large-scale warfare and does everything it can to avoid it. Quarian society wouldn't be in any physical danger.

I wouldn't say that, the Turians have never shied away from a fight.  They threatened orbital bombardment against Quarian settlers on Ekuna, and attacked without warning an unknown species activating dormant relays.  A similar "policing action" would not be out of the question if they found out the Quarians accidently broke the AI law.

Ekuna is bull**** for numerous reasons (mostly that it seems to be in the Terminus systems where the Council wouldn't care what the quarians were doing, and that the planet isn't even suitable to quarian habitation apparently) and I'm considering it noncanon in the same way that Gei Hinnom's planetary log entry is, mentioning the planet as a lifeless desert when you land in a varren-filled jungle.  The attack on the Alliance was because opening relays could lead to a much larger war than the one it'd take to stop them. There'd be no point in attacking Rannoch if the geth weren't violent; there'd certainly be a massive headache to sort out, but no need for violence.

Again, COUNCIL prejudice agains the quarians, punishing them for creating the geth.
ANOTHER reason why Rannoch was the only viable option to them. As the planet was theirs originally, then Reclaiming it from a rouge faction would incur no political wrath, and there would be nothing the Council could legally do to prevent them from re-settling, unlike any other world. The Council can't force a species off their world of origin without galactic support from their individual founding governments ( Asari Republics, Salarian Union, Turian Hierarchy).