4745 réponses à ce sujet

[Slayer299]

No, it's not. The Japanese weren't wiped out of existence or nearly so, the Quarians were. Japan could than be said to have committed the same level of genocide on everyone else they attacked (China/Korea/etc) as well or did you miss that?

Self defense would not have have come at a cost of 99% of the Quarian population both on and off of Rannoch.

[NCommand]

Phatose wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Well, what is your entire point?  What, precisely, is your definition of life?

. My point is that they are such a different form of life that I can't really agree that they are the same kind of living as I am.

That doesn't carry much weight.  What's to stop anybody from making the same claim about Turians, Quarians, Asari. Or in fact other humans?

. Because I can see that they are a form of life similar to me.  They are made of DNA and proteins etc.... Geth aren't even "I" they are "We"

The Quarians aren't made up of the same DNA and Proteins.  Dextro vs Levo, remember?  Vaguely similar, but not actually the same at all.

Really, this is just the limits of your own empathy.  I suppose you're entitled to that, but it's entirely unconvincing.

I think there's a sea of difference between having a different DNA build and having no DNA

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...
Ahh, people like you will be fun to deal with when the Reapers are mine.

. Sadism and a control fantasy.......

DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER. DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER

[Battlebloodmage]

Xilizhra wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Quarians are actually life-forms, regardless of how much EDI and the Geths try to emulate organics, they are simply not living beings. They are machines with programs to allow them to react to the outside interactions.

The format is irrelevant. Both are living beings. Also, I really thought better of you than that.

Well, I'm just replying to what my Shepard would have done if he was forced to choose. I guess I just find value of life more important. That's just my thoughts process, and if I could save both, I would, but if I were forced to choose, I have to choose the Quarians because the value of life is almost always more important. Machines can always be rebuilt. The same thing can't be said when an organic dies. I'm thinking on pragmatic terms and what my Shepard would do. The quarian people were someone's parents, children, brothers, or sisters and they're not really responisble for the crimes committed by their ancestors. 

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 17 mars 2013 - 02:50 .

[Phatose]

Steelcan wrote...

Phatose wrote...
The Quarians aren't made up of the same DNA and Proteins.  Dextro vs Levo, remember?  Vaguely similar, but not actually the same at all.

Really, this is just the limits of your own empathy.  I suppose you're entitled to that, but it's entirely unconvincing.

. But it's still a form of life I can recognize.

Which is fundamentally tied to a definition of life you haven't actually given - much less given us any reason why your definition is relevant. 

[Steelcan]

Phatose wrote...

Which is fundamentally tied to a definition of life you haven't actually given - much less given us any reason why your definition is relevant. 

. Life is anything that fulfills the requirements for being alive.
1.  Has DNA 
2.  Reproduces
3.  Produces waste
4.  Evolves in response to natural selection
5.  Grows
6.  Requires the consumption of nutrients and minerals to survive

[zakdillon]

Geth had no reason to stick to rannoch so much, as far as I know. I go with my gut. My gut goes with Tali. Every time

[Phatose]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Quarians are actually life-forms, regardless of how much EDI and the Geths try to emulate organics, they are simply not living beings. They are machines with programs to allow them to react to the outside interactions.

The format is irrelevant. Both are living beings. Also, I really thought better of you than that.

I guess I just find value of life more important. That's just my thoughts process, and if I could save both, I would, but if I were forced to choose, I have to choose the Quarians because the value of life is almost always more important. Machines can always be rebuilt. The same thing can't be said when an organic dies. I'm thinking on ragmatic terms and what my Shepard would do. The quarian people were someone's parents, children, brothers, or sisters and they're not really responisble for the crimes committed by their ancestors. 

Mass Effect actually disagrees quite strongly with you.  If Legion dies during ME2, it is rebuilt - but it's very clear - "We are not Legion".

By comparision, the rebuilt Organic Shepard does identify as the same Shepard that died.

Seems the implication is that organics can be rebuilt, while synthetics cannot.

[NCommand]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Another one: 
Q: How many geth does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Trick question; they can't do it without asking the Reapers for help.

I think I need to start writing these down

[Khelish]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Another one: 
Q: How many geth does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Trick question; they can't do it without asking the Reapers for help.

LOL 

[Phatose]

Steelcan wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Which is fundamentally tied to a definition of life you haven't actually given - much less given us any reason why your definition is relevant. 

. Life is anything that fulfills the requirements for being alive.
1.  Has DNA 
2.  Reproduces
3.  Produces waste
4.  Evolves in response to natural selection
5.  Grows
6.  Requires the consumption of nutrients and minerals to survive

Are any of those things actually special?  Deserving of any special consideration? 

[Steelcan]

Phatose wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Which is fundamentally tied to a definition of life you haven't actually given - much less given us any reason why your definition is relevant. 

. Life is anything that fulfills the requirements for being alive.
1.  Has DNA 
2.  Reproduces
3.  Produces waste
4.  Evolves in response to natural selection
5.  Grows
6.  Requires the consumption of nutrients and minerals to survive

Are any of those things actually special?  Deserving of any special consideration? 

. They are the requirements for something to be called living.  The geth are a different form of living than ours.  And are thus inherently alien.

[tevix]

@Steelcan

"My way or the highway" philosphy.

Just because you don't recognize it doesn't mean it's not life.

Kind of narrow minded.

[Steelcan]

tevix wrote...

@Steelcan

"My way or the highway" philosphy.

Just because you don't recognize it doesn't mean it's not life.

Kind of narrow minded.

. It is life, but not the kind of life I am and I can't reconcile that.

[Legion of 1337]

 Well the definition of 'life' is fuzzy anyway because really it's just a self-sustaining chemical reaction. That is literally all it is, and we can't use that as a definition because otherwise you'd say stars are "alive".
Wait, what if.....

MIND BLOWN 

[tevix]

"The geth are a differant form of livng than ours. and are thus inherently alien."

What? All that says is because it's differant than you it's not alive.

And when did humanity's current definition of life become the hard line definition that the entire universe goes by?

We once defined the earth as flat....

[Phatose]

Steelcan wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Which is fundamentally tied to a definition of life you haven't actually given - much less given us any reason why your definition is relevant. 

. Life is anything that fulfills the requirements for being alive.
1.  Has DNA 
2.  Reproduces
3.  Produces waste
4.  Evolves in response to natural selection
5.  Grows
6.  Requires the consumption of nutrients and minerals to survive

Are any of those things actually special?  Deserving of any special consideration? 

. They are the requirements for something to be called living.  The geth are a different form of living than ours.  And are thus inherently alien.

But it's a meaningless and abritraty definition that bears no relation to the actual reasons we value life.  We valued life before we even knew what DNA was.  This is nothing more then an abritrary definition based on nothing.

[Battlebloodmage]

Phatose wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Quarians are actually life-forms, regardless of how much EDI and the Geths try to emulate organics, they are simply not living beings. They are machines with programs to allow them to react to the outside interactions.

The format is irrelevant. Both are living beings. Also, I really thought better of you than that.

I guess I just find value of life more important. That's just my thoughts process, and if I could save both, I would, but if I were forced to choose, I have to choose the Quarians because the value of life is almost always more important. Machines can always be rebuilt. The same thing can't be said when an organic dies. I'm thinking on ragmatic terms and what my Shepard would do. The quarian people were someone's parents, children, brothers, or sisters and they're not really responisble for the crimes committed by their ancestors. 

Mass Effect actually disagrees quite strongly with you.  If Legion dies during ME2, it is rebuilt - but it's very clear - "We are not Legion".

By comparision, the rebuilt Organic Shepard does identify as the same Shepard that died.

Seems the implication is that organics can be rebuilt, while synthetics cannot.

Well, I guess we just define life differently. Machines are not born, they don't evolve. The reapers were always as they were, and they could only multiply by harvesting organics. The geth is built. They are all just programs. I see Legion being rebuilt as some kind of backup files but without the experience of the old Legion. It's the same case as the clone and Shepard, he's just like Shepard, but he didn't experience life as the old Shephard. 

[G Kevin]

In the thoughts of the Geth being alive or not, the problem for me stems from how they live.
I was just refreshing some of the details using the ME wiki about the Geth and here is what bothers me, they are not alike other organic species that we consider "alive."

Basically,their culture is very different from organics. Geth don't die, they just transfer to another platform. Organics can't do that. The Geth are a whole without individuality. There is no "I" in Geth, there is just "we." It reminds me of a this video. There is no two Geths that know two different things. As long as they are together, the Geth know everything each of the platform knows. Other intelligent organic species don't exhibit this trait.

I am not sure if I covered all subjects that bugged me but I just don't see the Geth as the same. The Geth have their own unique ways of going about things but just not enough that prove to me that they are equal to the other organic races.

Modifié par G Kevin, 17 mars 2013 - 03:10 .

[Steelcan]

tevix wrote...

"The geth are a differant form of livng than ours. and are thus inherently alien."

What? All that says is because it's differant than you it's not alive.

And when did humanity's current definition of life become the hard line definition that the entire universe goes by?

We once defined the earth as flat....

. I. NEVER SAID THEY ARE NOT ALIVE.  I said they are different and I can't wrap my head around it.

[Steelcan]

Phatose wrote...

But it's a meaningless and abritraty definition that bears no relation to the actual reasons we value life.  We valued life before we even knew what DNA was.  This is nothing more then an abritrary definition based on nothing.

.  It is based on all living things we have encountered.  We have yet to encounter a machine intelligence on par with a human.  The definition may change after that.  But I cannot wrap my head around the geth being the same as an organic 

Modifié par Steelcan, 17 mars 2013 - 03:06 .

[Phatose]

Ah, but Geth *can* die. The platforms aren't them. But they can clearly die if their current platform is destroyed and they are unable to transfer to another.

What about the Rachni? As I recall, the Queen used we, not I. Perhaps the difference is that they're closer to the Rachni then to humanity.

[tevix]

@Steelcan

You laid out a clear definition for what you consider life.

Geth don't fit that definition.

Therefore you don't define them as alive.

I apologize for the confusion but...you are sort of flip flopping.