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[Rip504]

So the real question here is how will you or do you justify the genocide of an entire people.?.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Did you forget that they were right next to Rannoch? WHY would you need to arm yourself when you are right next to your seat of government? That's like building an armed outpost 20 feet away from a fully reinforced  fortresss. It's silly and unessesaary since it takes minuites to cross the space between planets in the same system. For the people of the Mass Effect universe, it's like crossing the ocean to visit a mine. A system is as easy to traverse in a few minuets as a country to us people in planes. Commonplace. No one assumed a mining world in the core system would be attacked, and especally not when their fleet could be there in minuets. So YES, it's COMEPLETELY LOGICAL to say they were unarmed. So AGAIN, no, you DON'T know what happened, you HEADCANNON yourself into it.

And STOP bringing real-life situations into this. Are you REALLY that incapable of debating on your own merit? Using a governemt that had crazy leaders, and with the other attcking while holding the belief that the civilians shared the belief of crazy governemnt isn't helpfull for these reasons:
(a) Berlin: the Allies hardly had the time for finess. Geth don't have that problem: they are imesurably patiant.
( London: That attack was spicifically to hit civilians and military alike, not just the military, and was done without care of the casualties.
And the atom bombs were placed at military fortresses. NOT major civilian areas. And the geth didn't BOTHER to discriminate.
And do not bring the natzis into this. First, it's a sensitive subject that's offencive to many. Second, the natzis were genocidal for the sake of a vaunted superiority conplex. The quarians did it because they literally were to the wall and had their entire race's welfare hanging in the balance, and for a race that was written off as being doomed regardless of what choice was made.

And AGAIN, Tali says "the geth drorve her people back" and that "the geth didn't take prisoners" and then the Council newsletter about "unthinkable genocide" support this. As does the fact that AGAIN you are headcannoned into thinking that every quarian suddenly took up arms. Their military was small. They couldn't have had that many to fight with to begin with. Even if the army numbered a million, that still leaves 2 billion civilans.
And STOP bringing WWII into this. The geth gaussed towns with chemical weapons in retaliation. They went out of their way to slaughter civilians. Even people that weren't part of the war were killed indiscriminanately.  I didn't see that coming from the Allies in WWII, and AGAIN, you don't have the tact to use that subject, so leave it out of this.

What the hell does being next to Rannoch mean?  Civilians in the MEU carry guns.  Tali carries guns.  It's absurd to pretend like there was not a single gun on this mining colony as if guns in the MEU are reserved for soldiers alone. 

The Brits bombed Berlin so I wasn't talking about just ****'s.  Furthermore the target of the Hiroshima bomb was the Aioi Bridge.  The bomb missed it's target by 800 feet and hit the Shima Surgical Clinic.  That's right a Hospital.  You don't try and bomb a bridge 800 feet from a hospital.  Around 30% of the population of Hiroshima died.  Do you think those 150,000 thousand or so were all soldiers?  Children are born today with birth defects because of it.

War sucks dude.  People die and when sh*t starts getting bombed, civilains die in droves.  That is why you shouldn't go around picking fights.  The Quarians picked a fight and their civilains suffered for it.

And I will talk about what I want.  If you don't like it then the solution for you is to ignore my posts.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

WRONG.

TIM- Control
Saren AND Reapers - Synthesis.

And THAT'S your arguement? Shepard is better then them all "just because?' 
Even when the renegade Commander shoots friends like Mordin in the back just like Saren did to Nhilus? Or when he condemns the krogan to genocide for the Salarians? Or when he scarifices Ann Bryson to learn where Leviathan is? Or kills off thousands of people on Omega to drop the containment fields? Or butchers the population or Feros to get to the Thorian? THAT protrat of Shepard is NO better then the above. The whole point was that Shepard potentaly CAN be as bad as Saren of TIM.

And WRONG. What I'm saying is that YOU think it's okay for SYNTHETICS to use tech that shafted people all the time, but that the problem is when ORGANICS use it. YOU are using THAT prejudiced definition, so don't try to spin it on me when you AGAIN mixed it up.

And again, no one KNEW that was Reaper tech, and that tech wasn't spicifically created to mind-control a race into killing another. This isn't hardware. It's pliable software - the core essence of  Reapers. You think it's okay to mess with their tech when you are synthetcis, but organics - no, god forbid.
Just FACE IT. The geth are anything but the innocient angels you paint them as.

Shepard was not indoctrinated end of story.  I don't care about indoctrinated people and what they did.  You make the story choices you want and I make the story choices I want. 

Whether they knew it was Reaper tech or not is irrelevant.  They used it.  They happily used Tech they had no f**king clue how it worked.  Organics are free to use Reaper tech and synthetics are free to use Reaper tech.  Don't care.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

But then you defend the geth for taking the Heretic's path and forgoing their future for the sake of a predetermined shortcut. "Evolve or die" was the circumstance the geth were in, and it was partly because they didn't give any impression that they gave a damn about organics, and let the hate for them build up over 300 years. Even Legion somewhat admits that it disagrees with the geth's choice, even though the alternitive was death. (Shepard: "even if it costs the geth free will?" Legion: "Evidently, that is an acceptible choice." Unlike the Geth V.I. Legion shows remorse at the geth's choice, and a level of personal shame that he didn't resist the temptation to steal the upgrades for himself.

They faced extinction and choose to live.  I would do the same thing 100 times out of 100.  When my species is about to die, I don't care what I said previously and I don't care about a bunch of organics that hate me.  I choose my species.  If you want to be a traitor to your people, go right ahead.  But sorry, I am not sacrificing them so that people who hate me can live in a galaxy without me.

[remydat]

Rip504 wrote...

So the real question here is how will you or do you justify the genocide of an entire people.?.

Well Admiral Koris, what are you thoughts on this matter>



Refer to 2:52.  If they had listened to my dude Koris, they wouldn't be in this mess.  When you do the mission with Legion, he says when asked about peace, we need to see more data as when the Quarians believe they can win, they have attacked 100% of the time.  So what happens, the Quarians get a new weapon, think they can win and attack yet again.  So no,  I will not reward the aggressors for being the aggressor simply because they have flesh.

Admiral Koris:  But like her fater, she wants nothing but the destruction of the Geth.  The People we created.  The people WE WRONGED.

Tali:  The Geth drove us from our homeworld.

Admiral Koris:  Of course they did, we tried to kill them.

Admiral:  They (other Admirals) would see our fleet destroyed in the skies rather than find a new colony and adapt.

Shepard:  Can the Quarins co-exist with the geth after the history:

Admiral Koris:  I don't know but we all deserve to find out.  They are our children.  We all have done horrible things to each other but it has to end.  For both groups.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Did you forget that they were right next to Rannoch? WHY would you need to arm yourself when you are right next to your seat of government? That's like building an armed outpost 20 feet away from a fully reinforced  fortresss. It's silly and unessesaary since it takes minuites to cross the space between planets in the same system. For the people of the Mass Effect universe, it's like crossing the ocean to visit a mine. A system is as easy to traverse in a few minuets as a country to us people in planes. Commonplace. No one assumed a mining world in the core system would be attacked, and especally not when their fleet could be there in minuets. So YES, it's COMEPLETELY LOGICAL to say they were unarmed. So AGAIN, no, you DON'T know what happened, you HEADCANNON yourself into it.

And STOP bringing real-life situations into this. Are you REALLY that incapable of debating on your own merit? Using a governemt that had crazy leaders, and with the other attcking while holding the belief that the civilians shared the belief of crazy governemnt isn't helpfull for these reasons:
(a) Berlin: the Allies hardly had the time for finess. Geth don't have that problem: they are imesurably patiant.
( London: That attack was spicifically to hit civilians and military alike, not just the military, and was done without care of the casualties.
And the atom bombs were placed at military fortresses. NOT major civilian areas. And the geth didn't BOTHER to discriminate.
And do not bring the natzis into this. First, it's a sensitive subject that's offencive to many. Second, the natzis were genocidal for the sake of a vaunted superiority conplex. The quarians did it because they literally were to the wall and had their entire race's welfare hanging in the balance, and for a race that was written off as being doomed regardless of what choice was made.

And AGAIN, Tali says "the geth drorve her people back" and that "the geth didn't take prisoners" and then the Council newsletter about "unthinkable genocide" support this. As does the fact that AGAIN you are headcannoned into thinking that every quarian suddenly took up arms. Their military was small. They couldn't have had that many to fight with to begin with. Even if the army numbered a million, that still leaves 2 billion civilans.
And STOP bringing WWII into this. The geth gaussed towns with chemical weapons in retaliation. They went out of their way to slaughter civilians. Even people that weren't part of the war were killed indiscriminanately.  I didn't see that coming from the Allies in WWII, and AGAIN, you don't have the tact to use that subject, so leave it out of this.

What the hell does being next to Rannoch mean?  Civilians in the MEU carry guns.  Tali carries guns.  It's absurd to pretend like there was not a single gun on this mining colony as if guns in the MEU are reserved for soldiers alone. 

The Brits bombed Berlin so I wasn't talking about just ****'s.  Furthermore the target of the Hiroshima bomb was the Aioi Bridge.  The bomb missed it's target by 800 feet and hit the Shima Surgical Clinic.  That's right a Hospital.  You don't try and bomb a bridge 800 feet from a hospital.  Around 30% of the population of Hiroshima died.  Do you think those 150,000 thousand or so were all soldiers?  Children are born today with birth defects because of it.

War sucks dude.  People die and when sh*t starts getting bombed, civilains die in droves.  That is why you shouldn't go around picking fights.  The Quarians picked a fight and their civilains suffered for it.

And I will talk about what I want.  If you don't like it then the solution for you is to ignore my posts.

Being close to Rannoch is EVERYTHING. Like I said, it would have been like putting an outpost 20 feet from a fortress. Unessessary and innefficant. Also, the quarians didn't have a massive military force, so they had to be statioined at key terretories, like most small countries do with smaller-then-avarage armies.
And there is spicifcally stated that there is a difference between civilian arms, and military-grade weapons. And the miners were hardly a threat. They would have not had the capability or manpower to shut down the geth. Therefore, it wasn't any risk. It's like thinking that a couple hundred civilians with mining tools would win against several thousand armored soldiers. The geth had absolutly no reason to wipe out those miners. But they did it anyway.

Also, if you MUST insist in bringing the war into this, That city was a supply depot, and command center for multiple armies. And, unlike with the geth's chemical weapons, it WASN'T intended to hit that.
And finally, since the geth are networked A.I.s with exacting and precice calculatory abilaties, missed targets didn't happen for them. It WASN'T anything like unintentional colatoral damage. So the atomic bombs has NO BEARING on this, since (a) the allies only used two on military-spicific areas, which the geth had no constraints about, and ( the geth INTENDED to kill every single person they did, because it no longer mattered to them about who died. Missing targets wasn't a problem for them. They simply didn't care about the civilian causalties.

And again, the quarians took a fight that the Council would have started anyway, and it wouldn't have ended any better. At least with this, they had a CHANCE to avoid major social and economic colapse by remaining on the Council's good graces. And again, the point IS that it became war, NOT "self-defense," because the geth willingly used such harsh measures and massicared civilians en masse.

And also, unlike you, I have enough sense to not bring such sensitive things into this as real-life tragidies. You try to tell me off about taking this too seriously, then turn around and try to bring real-life tragic events into this. So no, I will not ignore your posts if they use such material.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

WRONG.

TIM- Control
Saren AND Reapers - Synthesis.

And THAT'S your arguement? Shepard is better then them all "just because?' 
Even when the renegade Commander shoots friends like Mordin in the back just like Saren did to Nhilus? Or when he condemns the krogan to genocide for the Salarians? Or when he scarifices Ann Bryson to learn where Leviathan is? Or kills off thousands of people on Omega to drop the containment fields? Or butchers the population or Feros to get to the Thorian? THAT protrat of Shepard is NO better then the above. The whole point was that Shepard potentaly CAN be as bad as Saren of TIM.

And WRONG. What I'm saying is that YOU think it's okay for SYNTHETICS to use tech that shafted people all the time, but that the problem is when ORGANICS use it. YOU are using THAT prejudiced definition, so don't try to spin it on me when you AGAIN mixed it up.

And again, no one KNEW that was Reaper tech, and that tech wasn't spicifically created to mind-control a race into killing another. This isn't hardware. It's pliable software - the core essence of  Reapers. You think it's okay to mess with their tech when you are synthetcis, but organics - no, god forbid.
Just FACE IT. The geth are anything but the innocient angels you paint them as.

Shepard was not indoctrinated end of story.  I don't care about indoctrinated people and what they did.  You make the story choices you want and I make the story choices I want. 

Whether they knew it was Reaper tech or not is irrelevant.  They used it.  They happily used Tech they had no f**king clue how it worked.  Organics are free to use Reaper tech and synthetics are free to use Reaper tech.  Don't care.

Nither was Saren in the beginning, remember? Indoctrination had nothing to DO with Saren and TIM being pricks. They were ruthless and selfish like that LONG before indoctrination.
The point is that Shepard has the capability to be like them. The ENTIRE POINT of it was that Shepard is NOT any better then the common soldier or person, and depending on choice, no better then the people he/she fights

But that runs counter to everything you said, in which you akin the Reaper upgrades the True Geth took as no big deal, even though Reaper technology has done nothing but shaft people in every circumstance. And AGAIN, an omni-directional piece of hardware like the Citadel and Relays, spicifically desigened for use by other organics, is different then the Reaper upgrades and implants that the Reapers never intended to be used outside of their control. Using the tech and implants and  has always ended badly for those in question. And you act like the geth have any comprehension of the uprgades and their long-term effect. Do you have any proof of that?

[milkytoast]

I of course chose both but I would have sided with the quarians just because of tali. Even if I play through again as a femshep.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Being close to Rannoch is EVERYTHING. Like I said, it would have been like putting an outpost 20 feet from a fortress. Unessessary and innefficant. Also, the quarians didn't have a massive military force, so they had to be statioined at key terretories, like most small countries do with smaller-then-avarage armies.
And there is spicifcally stated that there is a difference between civilian arms, and military-grade weapons. And the miners were hardly a threat. They would have not had the capability or manpower to shut down the geth. Therefore, it wasn't any risk. It's like thinking that a couple hundred civilians with mining tools would win against several thousand armored soldiers. The geth had absolutly no reason to wipe out those miners. But they did it anyway.

Also, if you MUST insist in bringing the war into this, That city was a supply depot, and command center for multiple armies. And, unlike with the geth's chemical weapons, it WASN'T intended to hit that.
And finally, since the geth are networked A.I.s with exacting and precice calculatory abilaties, missed targets didn't happen for them. It WASN'T anything like unintentional colatoral damage. So the atomic bombs has NO BEARING on this, since (a) the allies only used two on military-spicific areas, which the geth had no constraints about, and ( the geth INTENDED to kill every single person they did, because it no longer mattered to them about who died. Missing targets wasn't a problem for them. They simply didn't care about the civilian causalties.

And again, the quarians took a fight that the Council would have started anyway, and it wouldn't have ended any better. At least with this, they had a CHANCE to avoid major social and economic colapse by remaining on the Council's good graces. And again, the point IS that it became war, NOT "self-defense," because the geth willingly used such harsh measures and massicared civilians en masse.

And also, unlike you, I have enough sense to not bring such sensitive things into this as real-life tragidies. You try to tell me off about taking this too seriously, then turn around and try to bring real-life tragic events into this. So no, I will not ignore your posts if they use such material.

Look dude, you think the miners were all unarmed and did nothing to incite the Geth.  I disagree.  There is nothing more too it.  You keep your opinion and I will keep mine.

Missed targets don't happen for the Geth? Really?  How the hell am I still alive then.  They sure as hell missed hitting me a hell of a lot over the course of 3 games.

It was intended to hit a bridge that was 800 feet from a hospital.  Do you understand the impact radius of an Atomic Bomb is larger than 800 feet.  That hospital and those civilians were deemed acceptable casualties.  If Japan had not surrened, there were plans to drop more atomic bombs.  War sucks and sometimes civilains have to pay for the actions of their leaders.  It is horrible and tragic but that is how War works. 

And once again, if it is too sensitive for you then stop talking about it but I am not obligated to not talk about it because you are getting emotional on the internet.  If you keep responding to me about it, I will respond back.

Modifié par remydat, 25 mars 2013 - 02:18 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

So the real question here is how will you or do you justify the genocide of an entire people.?.

Well Admiral Koris, what are you thoughts on this matter>



Refer to 2:52.  If they had listened to my dude Koris, they wouldn't be in this mess.  When you do the mission with Legion, he says when asked about peace, we need to see more data as when the Quarians believe they can win, they have attacked 100% of the time.  So what happens, the Quarians get a new weapon, think they can win and attack yet again.  So no,  I will not reward the aggressors for being the aggressor simply because they have flesh.

Admiral Koris:  But like her fater, she wants nothing but the destruction of the Geth.  The People we created.  The people WE WRONGED.

Tali:  The Geth drove us from our homeworld.

Admiral Koris:  Of course they did, we tried to kill them.

Admiral:  They (other Admirals) would see our fleet destroyed in the skies rather than find a new colony and adapt.

Shepard:  Can the Quarins co-exist with the geth after the history:

Admiral Koris:  I don't know but we all deserve to find out.  They are our children.  We all have done horrible things to each other but it has to end.  For both groups.

And likewise, did you consider the fact that the quarians have a stand-off with Shepard about being Cerberus? Or their lack of faith in the Commander's word?
Also, in that SAME vid, didn't "your dude Koris" try to diliberatly incite fear of Legion's presance to turn the crowd against Tali?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMmNTqXxN6Q
The previous part of that vid you showed.  Same channel.
So, he wants peace, yet incites fear of the presance of a geth in order to get what he wants, even though that runs counter to his desire for peace by his increasing fear of the geth.

And AGAIN, I remind you: Listed as Public Enemy of the Free Galaxy #1, and as Reaper Allies for three years. Destroyed all peace envoys for the previous 300 years consistantly and without fail.  Cut a bloody swaith through the Attican Traverse and Skyllian Verge. Assulted the Citadel.
Take all that into account, plus the chance that the source of the geth's non-agression (Legion, Cerberus-affliliated Shepard) is biased, and what sensible people WOULD reach out to a people that has consistantly killed everyone that went to have peace talks with them?

Without information that comes from as source that is diffinitively not biased, NO ONE would believe a word Shepard said as viable enough to act on. That they arrested Shepard for the Alpha Relay incident is proof that Shepard's word on the Reapers did jack to convince them. What makes you think the quarians are going to  trust information from a geth - possibily the most biased source of information on the geth they could ever think of?
THAT would make the other Admirals trust him<_<

Honestly, you WONDER why Koris wasn't taken seriously?

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Nither was Saren in the beginning, remember? Indoctrination had nothing to DO with Saren and TIM being pricks. They were ruthless and selfish like that LONG before indoctrination.
The point is that Shepard has the capability to be like them. The ENTIRE POINT of it was that Shepard is NOT any better then the common soldier or person, and depending on choice, no better then the people he/she fights

But that runs counter to everything you said, in which you akin the Reaper upgrades the True Geth took as no big deal, even though Reaper technology has done nothing but shaft people in every circumstance. And AGAIN, an omni-directional piece of hardware like the Citadel and Relays, spicifically desigened for use by other organics, is different then the Reaper upgrades and implants that the Reapers never intended to be used outside of their control. Using the tech and implants and  has always ended badly for those in question. And you act like the geth have any comprehension of the uprgades and their long-term effect. Do you have any proof of that?

Right, Shepard is not any better except he is the hero of the story that saved a galaxy from a cycle that has been going on for millions or billions of years.  Ok, bro.  He is different.  Throughout the whole story everyone keeps tell him this.  TIM spends billions to bring back one man and says he is the only hope for humanity but no no, he is not different.

remydat wrote...
So no, I don't think it is up to organics to decide how synthetics should develop.  The Geth are not a part of the Council and have not agreed to be governed by them.  Organics are free to express their and I stress this word LEGITIMATE concerns but synthetics are not required to accept that consul from Organics especially in light of the obvious prejudice organics have of synthetics.

It would be nice if you stopped talking out of your a** about what I said.  The above was said pages ago where I acknowlege that being concerned about the Reaper tech is LEGITIMATE.  However, I still side with organics and synthetics making their own decisions.  You are free to disagree but you are not free to blatantly misrepresent what I said.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

And likewise, did you consider the fact that the quarians have a stand-off with Shepard about being Cerberus? Or their lack of faith in the Commander's word?
Also, in that SAME vid, didn't "your dude Koris" try to diliberatly incite fear of Legion's presance to turn the crowd against Tali?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMmNTqXxN6Q
The previous part of that vid you showed.  Same channel.
So, he wants peace, yet incites fear of the presance of a geth in order to get what he wants, even though that runs counter to his desire for peace by his increasing fear of the geth.

And AGAIN, I remind you: Listed as Public Enemy of the Free Galaxy #1, and as Reaper Allies for three years. Destroyed all peace envoys for the previous 300 years consistantly and without fail.  Cut a bloody swaith through the Attican Traverse and Skyllian Verge. Assulted the Citadel.
Take all that into account, plus the chance that the source of the geth's non-agression (Legion, Cerberus-affliliated Shepard) is biased, and what sensible people WOULD reach out to a people that has consistantly killed everyone that went to have peace talks with them?

Without information that comes from as source that is diffinitively not biased, NO ONE would believe a word Shepard said as viable enough to act on. That they arrested Shepard for the Alpha Relay incident is proof that Shepard's word on the Reapers did jack to convince them. What makes you think the quarians are going to  trust information from a geth - possibily the most biased source of information on the geth they could ever think of?
THAT would make the other Admirals trust him<_<

Honestly, you WONDER why Koris wasn't taken seriously?

She was on trial for treason for sending her father live Geth parts and then she walks in with a live Geth, lol.  

The rest of your post has nothing to do with why I posted the vid and has been discussed ad naseum.  You can believe what you want.  

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Being close to Rannoch is EVERYTHING. Like I said, it would have been like putting an outpost 20 feet from a fortress. Unessessary and innefficant. Also, the quarians didn't have a massive military force, so they had to be statioined at key terretories, like most small countries do with smaller-then-avarage armies.
And there is spicifcally stated that there is a difference between civilian arms, and military-grade weapons. And the miners were hardly a threat. They would have not had the capability or manpower to shut down the geth. Therefore, it wasn't any risk. It's like thinking that a couple hundred civilians with mining tools would win against several thousand armored soldiers. The geth had absolutly no reason to wipe out those miners. But they did it anyway.

Also, if you MUST insist in bringing the war into this, That city was a supply depot, and command center for multiple armies. And, unlike with the geth's chemical weapons, it WASN'T intended to hit that.
And finally, since the geth are networked A.I.s with exacting and precice calculatory abilaties, missed targets didn't happen for them. It WASN'T anything like unintentional colatoral damage. So the atomic bombs has NO BEARING on this, since (a) the allies only used two on military-spicific areas, which the geth had no constraints about, and ( the geth INTENDED to kill every single person they did, because it no longer mattered to them about who died. Missing targets wasn't a problem for them. They simply didn't care about the civilian causalties.

And again, the quarians took a fight that the Council would have started anyway, and it wouldn't have ended any better. At least with this, they had a CHANCE to avoid major social and economic colapse by remaining on the Council's good graces. And again, the point IS that it became war, NOT "self-defense," because the geth willingly used such harsh measures and massicared civilians en masse.

And also, unlike you, I have enough sense to not bring such sensitive things into this as real-life tragidies. You try to tell me off about taking this too seriously, then turn around and try to bring real-life tragic events into this. So no, I will not ignore your posts if they use such material.

Look dude, you think the miners were all unarmed and did nothing to incite the Geth.  I disagree.  There is nothing more too it.  You keep your opinion and I will keep mine.

Missed targets don't happen for the Geth? Really?  How the hell am I still alive then.  They sure as hell missed hitting me a hell of a lot over the course of 3 games.

It was intended to hit a bridge that was 800 feet from a hospital.  Do you understand the impact radius of an Atomic Bomb is larger than 800 feet.  That hospital and those civilians were deemed acceptable casualties.  If Japan had not surrened, there were plans to drop more atomic bombs.  War sucks and sometimes civilains have to pay for the actions of their leaders.  It is horrible and tragic but that is how War works. 

And once again, if it is too sensitive for you then stop talking about it but I am not obligated to not talk about it because you are getting emotional on the internet.  If you keep responding to me about it, I will respond back.

I don't see how, when you think that miners are going to have weapons that could be any threat to the geth, especally when the world was sparsly inhabited. It's not my fault that I want to correct the incorrect information you based your post on.

Look at the geth's Track Record. Shepard and crew are the ONLY humans to ever have survived the geth head on, remember? The statement on how "few people ever survuve encounters with the geth" kinda makes that obvious. After all, I'm pretty sure that losing your Shields counts as taking hits.
Besides, AGAIN, you use an example that has NO BEARING on my point, as I was talking about large, imobile structures. Not individual people.

And AGAIN, there were large military forces, and central HQ's for enemy CP's. And AGAIN, the bombs were a last resort. And was also ment to get ALL the Axis forces to surrender, ending the conflict quickly and mimimize the loss of life in the long run. The geth are completely different to that - they didn't CARE about civilian lives at ALL. They didn't BOTHER to look for alternitives, or a better way. They just mowed down everything in their path. That's ANOTHER difference. The atomic bomb was a last resort. The geth's chemical weapons and mass murder was their default. So NO, you CAN'T compare them.

And AGAIN, it's not just me. Others, like @DenyonSlayer do not like it either, as it shows an inability to debate without bringing real-life tragidies into this. It can offend alot of people to use something like that so flippently and trivilize the death like that. THAT'S why I said not to use it.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

And likewise, did you consider the fact that the quarians have a stand-off with Shepard about being Cerberus? Or their lack of faith in the Commander's word?
Also, in that SAME vid, didn't "your dude Koris" try to diliberatly incite fear of Legion's presance to turn the crowd against Tali?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMmNTqXxN6Q
The previous part of that vid you showed.  Same channel.
So, he wants peace, yet incites fear of the presance of a geth in order to get what he wants, even though that runs counter to his desire for peace by his increasing fear of the geth.

And AGAIN, I remind you: Listed as Public Enemy of the Free Galaxy #1, and as Reaper Allies for three years. Destroyed all peace envoys for the previous 300 years consistantly and without fail.  Cut a bloody swaith through the Attican Traverse and Skyllian Verge. Assulted the Citadel.
Take all that into account, plus the chance that the source of the geth's non-agression (Legion, Cerberus-affliliated Shepard) is biased, and what sensible people WOULD reach out to a people that has consistantly killed everyone that went to have peace talks with them?

Without information that comes from as source that is diffinitively not biased, NO ONE would believe a word Shepard said as viable enough to act on. That they arrested Shepard for the Alpha Relay incident is proof that Shepard's word on the Reapers did jack to convince them. What makes you think the quarians are going to  trust information from a geth - possibily the most biased source of information on the geth they could ever think of?
THAT would make the other Admirals trust him<_<

Honestly, you WONDER why Koris wasn't taken seriously?

She was on trial for treason for sending her father live Geth parts and then she walks in with a live Geth, lol.  

The rest of your post has nothing to do with why I posted the vid and has been discussed ad naseum.  You can believe what you want.  

And AGAIN, with that, do you really think that anyone is going to trust Shepard or Legion's word based on the circumstances that BROUGHT them here?
It doesn't inspire much faith in their word being based on unbaised information, does it?

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

And AGAIN, with that, do you really think that anyone is going to trust Shepard or Legion's word based on the circumstances that BROUGHT them here?
It doesn't inspire much faith in their word being based on unbaised information, does it?

Some people will, some people won't.  When the people that won't end up dying a fiery death in the sky like Admiral Koris predicted then maybe there is a lesson in there. 

[Rip504]

Modifié par Rip504, 25 mars 2013 - 02:59 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Nither was Saren in the beginning, remember? Indoctrination had nothing to DO with Saren and TIM being pricks. They were ruthless and selfish like that LONG before indoctrination.
The point is that Shepard has the capability to be like them. The ENTIRE POINT of it was that Shepard is NOT any better then the common soldier or person, and depending on choice, no better then the people he/she fights

But that runs counter to everything you said, in which you akin the Reaper upgrades the True Geth took as no big deal, even though Reaper technology has done nothing but shaft people in every circumstance. And AGAIN, an omni-directional piece of hardware like the Citadel and Relays, spicifically desigened for use by other organics, is different then the Reaper upgrades and implants that the Reapers never intended to be used outside of their control. Using the tech and implants and  has always ended badly for those in question. And you act like the geth have any comprehension of the uprgades and their long-term effect. Do you have any proof of that?

Right, Shepard is not any better except he is the hero of the story that saved a galaxy from a cycle that has been going on for millions or billions of years.  Ok, bro.  He is different.  Throughout the whole story everyone keeps tell him this.  TIM spends billions to bring back one man and says he is the only hope for humanity but no no, he is not different.

remydat wrote...
So no, I don't think it is up to organics to decide how synthetics should develop.  The Geth are not a part of the Council and have not agreed to be governed by them.  Organics are free to express their and I stress this word LEGITIMATE concerns but synthetics are not required to accept that consul from Organics especially in light of the obvious prejudice organics have of synthetics.

It would be nice if you stopped talking out of your a** about what I said.  The above was said pages ago where I acknowlege that being concerned about the Reaper tech is LEGITIMATE.  However, I still side with organics and synthetics making their own decisions.  You are free to disagree but you are not free to blatantly misrepresent what I said.

And TIM turned around and wrote him off the moment he did something he didn't agree with (Shepard destroying the Collector Base, for instance). And TIM reveals that he never intended to let the partnership petween him and Shepard last in the logs on Chronos Station. He never saw Shepard as the best hope for humanity - he saw CERBERUS as the best hope, which Shepard was supporting.
And AGAIN, Shepard considers himself "nothing special" as he has to ask constantly why he was brought back, and why everyone trusts him so much. The entire POINT was that an ordinary person can do great things. Remember James Vega? "I know your human. Just like me."
So forgive me if I insulted you and the other members of the Cult of Shepard. But Shepard isn't a God, and isn't the be-all end-all. Shepard personally says that anyone can do what he does, and he/she is "Just a soldier."
If you aren't going to take Shepard's word for it, whose are you?

And AGAIN, you think that means you should use tech that, again, HAS NEVER HAD ANY GOOD COME FROM IT? What makes you think the tech is any safer for synthetics? The POINT is that when tech shafts people repeately, you tend to want to AVOID it. Forgive me if the second race of Reaper's being created from this upgrade is a concern for you, but when it poses such a risk, I really don't know who WOULDN'T  think it a risk.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

I don't see how, when you think that miners are going to have weapons that could be any threat to the geth, especally when the world was sparsly inhabited. It's not my fault that I want to correct the incorrect information you based your post on.

Look at the geth's Track Record. Shepard and crew are the ONLY humans to ever have survived the geth head on, remember? The statement on how "few people ever survuve encounters with the geth" kinda makes that obvious. After all, I'm pretty sure that losing your Shields counts as taking hits.
Besides, AGAIN, you use an example that has NO BEARING on my point, as I was talking about large, imobile structures. Not individual people.

And AGAIN, there were large military forces, and central HQ's for enemy CP's. And AGAIN, the bombs were a last resort. And was also ment to get ALL the Axis forces to surrender, ending the conflict quickly and mimimize the loss of life in the long run. The geth are completely different to that - they didn't CARE about civilian lives at ALL. They didn't BOTHER to look for alternitives, or a better way. They just mowed down everything in their path. That's ANOTHER difference. The atomic bomb was a last resort. The geth's chemical weapons and mass murder was their default. So NO, you CAN'T compare them.

And AGAIN, it's not just me. Others, like @DenyonSlayer do not like it either, as it shows an inability to debate without bringing real-life tragidies into this. It can offend alot of people to use something like that so flippently and trivilize the death like that. THAT'S why I said not to use it.

Find me something form the game, novels or comics that say they were unarmed then we can revist your correct information.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

And AGAIN, with that, do you really think that anyone is going to trust Shepard or Legion's word based on the circumstances that BROUGHT them here?
It doesn't inspire much faith in their word being based on unbaised information, does it?

Some people will, some people won't.  When the people that won't end up dying a fiery death in the sky like Admiral Koris predicted then maybe there is a lesson in there. 

Like what? "Trust ONE member of the race that tried to end all life as we know it on blind faith?"
That tantimount to jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge and hoping that the drop doesn't kill you. You think ANYONE is just going to tust a geth - ANY geth - on it's word after what several thousand did to the Citadel? Or with how they never expressed any desire to commune with organics based on how the killed all the OTHER people that tried to negotiate peace with them?

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

I don't see how, when you think that miners are going to have weapons that could be any threat to the geth, especally when the world was sparsly inhabited. It's not my fault that I want to correct the incorrect information you based your post on.

Look at the geth's Track Record. Shepard and crew are the ONLY humans to ever have survived the geth head on, remember? The statement on how "few people ever survuve encounters with the geth" kinda makes that obvious. After all, I'm pretty sure that losing your Shields counts as taking hits.
Besides, AGAIN, you use an example that has NO BEARING on my point, as I was talking about large, imobile structures. Not individual people.

And AGAIN, there were large military forces, and central HQ's for enemy CP's. And AGAIN, the bombs were a last resort. And was also ment to get ALL the Axis forces to surrender, ending the conflict quickly and mimimize the loss of life in the long run. The geth are completely different to that - they didn't CARE about civilian lives at ALL. They didn't BOTHER to look for alternitives, or a better way. They just mowed down everything in their path. That's ANOTHER difference. The atomic bomb was a last resort. The geth's chemical weapons and mass murder was their default. So NO, you CAN'T compare them.

And AGAIN, it's not just me. Others, like @DenyonSlayer do not like it either, as it shows an inability to debate without bringing real-life tragidies into this. It can offend alot of people to use something like that so flippently and trivilize the death like that. THAT'S why I said not to use it.

Find me something form the game, novels or comics that say they were unarmed then we can revist your correct information.

That Adas is a mining colony and sparcely populated is right in the Codex. The idea that a population that is there soley to mine would have military grade weapons is an absurd notion. How about you give ME proof of what DOES support your idea that a small mining population that was quickly overrun had any form of weapon that could pose a threat to seveal thousand geth.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

But then you defend the geth for taking the Heretic's path and forgoing their future for the sake of a predetermined shortcut. "Evolve or die" was the circumstance the geth were in, and it was partly because they didn't give any impression that they gave a damn about organics, and let the hate for them build up over 300 years. Even Legion somewhat admits that it disagrees with the geth's choice, even though the alternitive was death. (Shepard: "even if it costs the geth free will?" Legion: "Evidently, that is an acceptible choice." Unlike the Geth V.I. Legion shows remorse at the geth's choice, and a level of personal shame that he didn't resist the temptation to steal the upgrades for himself.

They faced extinction and choose to live.  I would do the same thing 100 times out of 100.  When my species is about to die, I don't care what I said previously and I don't care about a bunch of organics that hate me.  I choose my species.  If you want to be a traitor to your people, go right ahead.  But sorry, I am not sacrificing them so that people who hate me can live in a galaxy without me.

Then why do you fault the QUARIANS for the SAME THING? They faced the very likely prospect of sociatal collapse and chose to avoid it. They faced extinction against the Reapers without a homeworld, and chose to live. So then, since the quarian species faced the extremely high prospect of losing evrything in BOTH cases, why do you fault them so badly for it?

And that mentality is exatcally WHY Gerrel led the attack on Rannoch. He wasn't about to sacrifice his people's future and possibly their lives for the geth - a race that is listed as enemies of the free galaxy.
Same thing for the geth Dreadnought. He chose his people's safety over Shepard.
You CANNOT say that's your belief and support it, then bash the quarians for using that same exact belief.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 25 mars 2013 - 02:58 .

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

That Adas is a mining colony and sparcely populated is right in the Codex. The idea that a population that is there soley to mine would have military grade weapons is an absurd notion. How about you give ME proof of what DOES support your idea that a small mining population that was quickly overrun had any form of weapon that could pose a threat to seveal thousand geth.

I don't need proof because I am not claiming anything as fact.  How many times must I tell you believe what you want.  It does not tell us whether they were armed or unarmed or whether they tried to shut down the geth and they rebelled.  So we are both able to believe what we want.

The only one trying to claim fact here is you.  I freely admit I don't know the truth because it is left vague and unclear.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Now let's just hold on one cotton picking minute!

Hackett is thousands of times better than Gerrel.

His bro levels alone are off the guddamn charts!

They both shoot at you for the greater cause.
Gerrel shot at you during the Dreadnought attack to make sure a threat to his people was destroyed.
Hackett shot at you during the Battle of the Citadel while you were still right next to Sovergein in the Citadel Tower.

I think Cheesecake was being facetious.

Nope, I just like Hackett.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Then why do you fault the QUARIANS for the SAME THING? They faced the very likely prospect of sociatal collapse and chose to avoid it. They faced extinction against the Reapers without a homeworld, and chose to live. So then, since the quarian species faced the extremely high prospect of losing evrything in BOTH cases, why do you fault them so badly for it?

And that mentality is exatcally WHY Gerrel led the attack on Rannoch. He wasn't about to sacrifice his people's future and possibly their lives for the geth - a race that is listed as enemies of the free galaxy.
Same thing for the geth Dreadnought. He chose his people's safety over Shepard.
You CANNOT say that's your belief and support it, then bash the quarians for using that same exact belief.

Because the story does not claim they faced extinction.  That is your interpretation based on your economic collpase theory.  Once again, you are free to believe it.  The story tells me that the Quarians attacked and because of it, the Geth ally with Reapers. 

When you become a writer at Bioware then I will accept your fan fic or head cannon.  Until then believe what you want and stop trying to get me to accept it because I won't.

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Like what? "Trust ONE member of the race that tried to end all life as we know it on blind faith?"
That tantimount to jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge and hoping that the drop doesn't kill you. You think ANYONE is just going to tust a geth - ANY geth - on it's word after what several thousand did to the Citadel? Or with how they never expressed any desire to commune with organics based on how the killed all the OTHER people that tried to negotiate peace with them?

And if you don't want to trust him then don't.  I recall Legion have a chance to kill me during the Reaper IFF mission and not taking the shot.  I recall him killing a **** load of Geth with me.  If that is not good enough for the Quarians then regrettably for them, they die.

That's how life works sometimes.  Sometimes you trust the wrong people and die.  Sometimes you don't trust the right people and die.