4745 réponses à ce sujet

[tevix]

@Legion of 1337

You spend half your post that I replied to explaining how you won't let the quarians be wiped out and hunted down and driven to extinction by the geth.

Regardless of who you pick, you guarantee the exctinction of an entire race.

Whether by active action or inaction, you are condemning a society to death. In some places you can be jailed for failing to act to protect someone, even just by calling 911. I agree with such laws.

If you don't choose peace you are choosing the death of one species. If peace isn't an option than you are forced to choose.

You must choose based on who you value more, not based on the idea that if you don't do anything then you haven't taken part in genocide. If you stand by and watch someone die you have contributed heavily to their death. Your hands are not clean.

[chemiclord]

Considering by that point, the Geth had already sided with the Reapers before and carried Reaper code in their software and platforms... I would not be able to trust them.  Even with the option for peace on the table, I can't convince myself they wouldn't jump ship the moment it became pragmatic to do so again.

At least with the Quarians, I'd know that I'd be getting a force that wouldn't turn on me in an instant.

Modifié par chemiclord, 17 mars 2013 - 04:01 .

[nos_astra]

The geth have been shown to be vulnerable to the Reapers twice so naturally I side with the quarians.

[Seboist]

I define "peace" in this conflict as Geth being destroyed, so no I wouldn't pick them.

[Stella-Arc]

Quarians. 

They shouldn't be blamed for what their ancestors did or what their admirals chose. They have been around far, far, FAR, longer than the geth and they would be crucial in mainataining the supply lines (as well as evac support). And finally, they have a large civilian population with children. No way I'm condemming them.

While I believe an AI is alive, I did not like how Legion lied to me, how the geth consensus went to the reapers and then decided to upgrade to reaper code. They don't need it. There should have been an option to convince Legion to stand down as well as stop the quarians from attacking the disabled geth. 

In the end, if I couldn't broker peace, I would always choose the quarians. 

Modifié par Stella-Arc, 17 mars 2013 - 04:22 .

[Arisugawa]

Phatose wrote...

You know *exactly* why they suddenly need Reaper code.  Their intelligence is collective, and a certain hyper-aggressive race just managed to wipe out an awful large number of them, dropping the IQ of the rest of them as well.

But yet, Legion/the Geth VI managed to convince a percentage of the population of the Geth Fighter Squadron server to switch sides and download themselves into Prime bodies without them requiring Reaper Code upgrades.

The line between "dropping their IQ" and "being intelligent enough to make their own decisions" is awfully vague.

Modifié par Arisugawa, 17 mars 2013 - 04:16 .

[Legion of 1337]

tevix wrote...

@Legion of 1337

You spend half your post that I replied to explaining how you won't let the quarians be wiped out and hunted down and driven to extinction by the geth.

Regardless of who you pick, you guarantee the exctinction of an entire race.

Whether by active action or inaction, you are condemning a society to death. In some places you can be jailed for failing to act to protect someone, even just by calling 911. I agree with such laws.

If you don't choose peace you are choosing the death of one species. If peace isn't an option than you are forced to choose.

You must choose based on who you value more, not based on the idea that if you don't do anything then you haven't taken part in genocide. If you stand by and watch someone die you have contributed heavily to their death. Your hands are not clean.

I DID explain who I value more.

[Da Don Giovanni]

Arisugawa wrote...

But yet, Legion/the Geth VI managed to convince a percentage of the population of the Geth Fighter Squadron server to switch sides and download themselves into Prime bodies without them requiring Reaper Code upgrades.

The line between "dropping their IQ" and "being intelligent enough to make their own decisions" is awfully vague.

This ^.

[greatcrusader44]

If I was really Shepard in that situation, I would pick the Quarians. I just can't compare synthetics to Organics, you can argue that they have the same right to live as the Quarians, but in my mind I'm not thinking saving the Quarians/Get, I'm thinking kill the Quarian species, or the Geth
The mistake of Han Gerrel shouldn't damn his whole species, and the only friendly Get I've met was Legion, and minutes ago I was carving through hundreds of his species to get here.

I can say with utmost certainty that if I had to make that choice quickly my emotional response would be save the Quarians, there wouldn't be a debate at all.

[Da Don Giovanni]

Prime > Tali

[Artifex_Imperius]

The geth are baddest mother f*ck*rs in the galaxy. aint no way im gonna save them!

IN THE SCALE OF EVIL the geth are so way up higher than the reapers. that it makes "harbinger" look like good samaritan

the true reason geth want to fight the reapers is that soo they could replace the reapers and kill off all organics. WHAT DONT TELL YOU DIDN'T KNOW?

reapers= have a kill code inside them aka catalyst. reapers stop fighting and die. OK the end!

geth= we effin do what ever we want! morales no sh*T. geth we have reached the apex no need for organics! time to KILL.

saving the geth coz they look sorry. thats what they want you to see. never be fooled

[o Ventus]

dversion wrote...

I think a lot of people who didn't play the first game really sided with the Geth because they didn't see what a threat they were. ME3 does a lot to show only one side of the conflict and really make the quarians the villains.

And? The geth were already displayed in all 3 games with varying levels of antagonism.

As far back as ME1 it was known that the initial violence in the Morning War came from the quarians.

[SUPERF0RCE]

well if it werent for legion i wouldnt care about geth and legion was an anamoly. An anamoly that wouldnt have happened it it werent for the reaper code, possibly. I would say the geth werent fully sentient until the reaper code. As i said in other posts i wish the destroy option didnt kill all synthetic just the geth if they had reaper code. Plus i love tali almost as much as liara so how could i not pick the quarians over the geth

Modifié par SUPERF0RCE, 17 mars 2013 - 05:50 .

[Khelish]

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

Prime > Tali

Levo pls.

[Da Don Giovanni]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I used to think I would pick the geth, but after replaying the mission and feeling so completely railroaded by the bad writing... If I didn't have a third option and a lot of headcanon I would have to pick the quarians.

The quarians were wrong in what they did, but if my option is to kill the geth or allow them to upgrade to dubious Reaper code, then I'm going to mercy kill them. I'm sorry, geth, but you went against your word. I won't let the Old Machines dictate your future.

I resent writing that took a curious and unique form of life that was recognized for two games as AI and says that unless they lose their special, communal way of existence and upgrade to anthropomorphic individualism, they can't be 'true AI'. Forget that.

Agreed. The writing was horrible in terms of giving the Geth a proper debate on why they should be allowed reaper tech permanently.  Garrus and shepard deserve a better ending. Also EDI has reaper code and yet everyon elovea her, but dont want the geth to have it? Double standards are not xool.

[Auld Wulf]

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

Prime > Tali

I have to agree in this case. I love the Prime's voice. Tali's? Nnnnot so much.

[o Ventus]

Khelish wrote...

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

Prime > Tali

Levo pls.

Primes are capable of killing things without Energy Drain.

[Khelish]

o Ventus wrote...

Khelish wrote...

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

Prime > Tali

Levo pls.

Primes are capable of killing things without Energy Drain.

... and move as gracefully as a sloth, same speed too.

[Aggie Punbot]

Slayer299 wrote...

With no choice for peace between them than that's easy...the Quarians and not the Geth who I feel no sympathy for in choosing between them.

The problem with this is that anyone new to the series will only see the Geth painted as 'fluffy bunnies of love, peace, innocence and happiness who were ruthlessly attacked by their overlords' by Bioware in ME3 and so anything they did against the Quarians was justified. So I can honestly see a lot of people killing off the Quarians unfortunately.

That's actually true, though. The geth were, in fact, attacked by the quarians for no valid reason. The geth never instigated violence towards the quarians, it was the other way around. The geth only fought back in self defense; you can't blame them for not wanting to be exterminated.

[Khelish]

TS2Aggie wrote...

That's actually true, though. The geth were, in fact, attacked by the quarians for no valid reason.

You know that ban the Council has on AI? Yeah, the Quarian's reaction to the Geth had something to do with fear of how the Council would react if they discovered AI's.

[silverexile17s]

tevix wrote...

@Silverexile17s

You think gerrel is concerned only with the safety of his people?

He armed his most fragile, most life-sustaining ships (filled with non-combatants) simply for war with the geth. He also justified in ME2 the war by needing a place to harbor their non-combatants.

Which is it Gerrel? They are either combatants or they aren't. He makes the combatants to give them a place to be non-combatants? Military logic at its finest.

Gerrel only stands down in the peace option because he is overridden by the other admirals. If you choose to save only the geth, he charges mindlessly into the geth hoard and refuses to allow a retreat. He knows he can't win.

He knows the reapers won't leave rannoch alone. So sending his "non-combatants" there will do no good.

He doesn't care about civilians. He is a military blowhard with a god complex. He only cares about getting his way because he thinks he rules the universe because he's an admiral.

I effing hate military leaders like him.

You mean military leaders that actually CARE about their race, and put safty of them over safty of aliens?
Don't go into the military.
Concern over the safty of his people was the entire reason the quarians went to war. They cannot aid other races against the Reapers without suddenly becoming self-sufficant, which they in turn can't do without a planet of their own. There are no dextro worlds avalibe that haven't been claimed by the turians, and those colonies that aren't already under attack are unable to take on 15 million high matinance quarian civilians that have strict ditary and health needs. There is no other world to place them on that doens't have fortifiable positions ready made (recaptured geth bases), or an atmospere that isn't leathel. Only ONE world fits all the above criteria: Rannoch.

They are made into soldiers because there isn't any choice left. And they didn't have the choice to stay regardless of if they went to war or not. They aren't self-sufficant warships like the turians and humans. They are salvaged tugs that are on their last legs, spicifically listed as becoming completely defunct in a few generations in Mass Effect: Ascencion. The Combat fleets are completely and symbioticly dependant on the presance of the Civilian fleet to give constant re-supply, re-fuel, repair, and so-on. The civilians and combat ships are impossible to seperate while they carry the entire race aborad their ships. So NO, Gerrel DIDN'T force them into that role. They would have had to do the exact same thing with anyone they decided to fight. And they only were pressed into the fight after the geth became upgraded with Reaper-based code.They either do this, or wait for the Reapers to pick them off in space, where, since the liveships are still filled with civilians, they are unable to split up and defend multiple fronts.

And the geth were still considered enemies of the galaxy. The Council and Alliance never recended the state of war order they had with the geth. To teh galaxy, the Heretics embodied the beliefs of ALL geth. The only person that had any belief of otherwise was Shepard, and after the Alpha Relay and the Cerbeurs ties, the Commander's word is completely  inadmissable as evidence of geth non-agresion.
So there was no reason for anyone to think less of the quarians at the time for the attack.

Gerrel is the person that makes the hard choices. They may not always be the right ones, but someone has to make them. That's what Admirals,Generals, and leaders DO. They make the hard choices that ensure the survival of the entire race.
Or did you forget how Hackett sacrificed the entire Second Fleet so that the Third and Fifth could escape? THAT could be akinned to throwing lives away selfishly, even though that likely wasn't the case.
He is NO different then Hackett: A military man making the hard choices that people don't like, but have to be made.

[o Ventus]

Khelish wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Khelish wrote...

Da Don Giovanni wrote...

Prime > Tali

Levo pls.

Primes are capable of killing things without Energy Drain.

... and move as gracefully as a sloth, same speed too.

But they're armored like tanks, have a near perfectly accurate pulse cannon, a geth turret and a drone that is far better than anything alloted to the player.

Sounds like a fair trade to me.

[Khelish]

o Ventus wrote...

But they're armored like tanks, have a near perfectly accurate pulse cannon, a geth turret and a drone that is far better than anything alloted to the player.

Sounds like a fair trade to me.

It evens out in the end. A Quarian can sabotage a prime and turn him into a walking idiot.

Having tanks in war only gets you so far...

[Aggie Punbot]

Khelish wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

That's actually true, though. The geth were, in fact, attacked by the quarians for no valid reason.

You know that ban the Council has on AI? Yeah, the Quarian's reaction to the Geth had something to do with fear of how the Council would react if they discovered AI's.

Yes, things like that tend to happen when you operate against council laws with the justification of: 'It wasn't AI research, not really..." I'd imagine that if they had simply come clean to the council and admitted their guilt (and not attacked the geth first), things would have turned out a hell of a lot differently. They may still have gotten kicked out of the council (debatable), but they'd still have their homeworld as well as a sapient race of machines that made their lives a lot easier. Other races may very well have been flocking to the quarians and geth for their vastly superior technical knowledge instead of treating them like the lepers of the galaxy. Instead, they panicked and tried to commit genocide in an effort to mask their crime of illegal AI research. We all know how that turned out.

That being said, if the quarians are so determined to kill themselves off in a hopeless fight against the geth, let them. If I have to choose between two sides of a war, I'm going to side with the ones who didn't start it and have actively tried to cease hostilities (I.E. not the quarians).

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 17 mars 2013 - 06:53 .