197 réponses à ce sujet

[TJBartlemus]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

It is a little disconcerting to see how quickly many people were declaring Citadel the best ME DLC ever. Allowing for a little exaggeration, it's a little like saying Space Balls was the best Star Wars movie. I guess it goes to show how desperate everyone really was for some good feels, despite their defense of the, ahem, "realism" of the ME ending. I can certainly sympathize. But some of the praise does seem a tad "of the moment", and hopefully time will provide a more measured perspective.

Exactly the point I was trying to get across.  But put more eloquently.

[Alikain]

Am sorry I can't agree most of the thing you said OP. how can it luck context. Have you watch Babylon 5 shadow wars. If you haven't I Suggest you should go and watch it. Because it Demonstrate the same feel of this DLC. We needed a time off to cool down, the Citadel is a big place, just because the galaxy is doom so should the whole citadel reflected a dark gloomy sense of impending Distraction.

[TJBartlemus]

Alikain wrote...

Am sorry I can't agree most of the thing you said OP. how can it luck context. Have you watch Babylon 5 shadow wars. If you haven't I Suggest you should go and watch it. Because it Demonstrate the same feel of this DLC. We needed a time off to cool down, the Citadel is a big place, just because the galaxy is doom so should the whole citadel reflected a dark gloomy sense of impending Distraction.

That's perfectly fine.  I wouldn't imagine everyone would agree with my view points. To address the comment about Babylon 5...no I haven't seen it. Perhaps I will sometime soon. 

[snakeboy86]

You...ok so what if it had no context to the story? Is that so bad?

I had a blast hanging out with everyone(living that is) from all three games

It's the best damn Dlc because I couldn't stop laughing, it was pure fun

[moistmossyroc]

do you guys know if there are still alot of people playing mass effect 3 mutiplayer

[Zero132132]

It knew what it was trying to be. The opening quest is even called "shore leave," so you had to know it wouldn't be about the war. The "Normandy is getting fixed and improved and ****" bit was a nice way to let us leave the main story behind for a bit.

As others have said, basically every other DLC in the series so far besides Leviathan and Omega has had nothing to do with the main plot. They threw in one last example of that, and they gave a passable means of allowing it to exist in the context of a massive ongoing war.

[TJBartlemus]

snakeboy86 wrote...

You...ok so what if it had no context to the story? Is that so bad?

I had a blast hanging out with everyone(living that is) from all three games

It's the best damn Dlc because I couldn't stop laughing, it was pure fun

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the DLC. As some who have posted here in thread that have also missed in my original post, I absolutely enjoyed the DLC. However that doesn't stop me from pointing things that are wrong with it and seeing the bigger picture. Just because I loved it doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye to the important things / problems. And it seems many people have forgotten about that fact.

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 18 mars 2013 - 01:46 .

[TJBartlemus]

Topic now edited to contain a quote that provides more elaboration / clarification at what I'm trying to drive at with my points.

[Acerlux]

While I can definitely acknowledge that its out of place, after the flatness of Omega and after Leviathan ending up bitter because they doubled (tripled, after the EC I suppose) down on the ending I hated so much, I was just happy to play something that I could at least enjoy. Even if it took me out of the proper narrative of ME3, that's what it needed to do because the proper narrative has that ending anchor tied around its neck; I'd rather be pulled out than think about how pointless whatever it is I'm doing is useless in the face of the ending.

[TJBartlemus]

Acerlux wrote...

While I can definitely acknowledge that its out of place, after the flatness of Omega and after Leviathan ending up bitter because they doubled (tripled, after the EC I suppose) down on the ending I hated so much, I was just happy to play something that I could at least enjoy. Even if it took me out of the proper narrative of ME3, that's what it needed to do because the proper narrative has that ending anchor tied around its neck; I'd rather be pulled out than think about how pointless whatever it is I'm doing is useless in the face of the ending.

Well said. Very well thought out response.  And on some of your points I agree. Particularily the last sentence. 

[CronoDragoon]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

It is a little disconcerting to see how quickly many people were declaring Citadel the best ME DLC ever. Allowing for a little exaggeration, it's a little like saying Space Balls was the best Star Wars movie. I guess it goes to show how desperate everyone really was for some good feels, despite their defense of the, ahem, "realism" of the ME ending. I can certainly sympathize. But some of the praise does seem a tad "of the moment", and hopefully time will provide a more measured perspective.

I thought the endings were mediocre but love the character interaction and humor in BioWare games. Looks like a lot of people feel the same way.

Moreover, this DLC is by far the most content/price ratio you will get in DLC. Plus, it has the combat arena for people who care more about combat than character scenes.

This DLC has everything I want from Mass Effect. It also has the huge meta-game plus of generating topics besides ending whining.

[Getorex]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Acerlux wrote...

While I can definitely acknowledge that its out of place, after the flatness of Omega and after Leviathan ending up bitter because they doubled (tripled, after the EC I suppose) down on the ending I hated so much, I was just happy to play something that I could at least enjoy. Even if it took me out of the proper narrative of ME3, that's what it needed to do because the proper narrative has that ending anchor tied around its neck; I'd rather be pulled out than think about how pointless whatever it is I'm doing is useless in the face of the ending.

Well said. Very well thought out response.  And on some of your points I agree. Particularily the last sentence. 

Sure, the Citadel DLC is out of place but there really wasn't much place to put it given its intent (largely fan service).  It adds nothing at all to the overall plot and there are no references to the party or other things later in the game.  I'm OK with that because I just enjoyed the whole thing in spite of it being out of place.  Hell, the only reason I'm playing again and even found out about the Citadel (and Omega) DLC is because I was recently informed that there was an ending mod (MEHEM) that fixes the ending such that I was interested in playing again.  I installed MEHEM and started playing, found out about the 2 new DLCs and then informed the person who told me about MEHEM.  Now we are both replaying. 

The whole thing, INCLUDING the party, isn't pointless if you go with MEHEM too.  If you do the party late enough in the game you also get an additional nice LI interaction in addition to the final one before doing the real end (though in MEHEM you get yet another glimpse of your Shep with your LI after it's ALL over).

Modifié par Getorex, 18 mars 2013 - 02:39 .

[dgcatanisiri]

It's definitely light-hearted, and it's pretty much meant more for the fans of the characters than for how it ties into the story of ME3, a way to truly say goodbye to all these characters, but I see it also as having relation to something that we don't get into very much - Shepard's revival. On Cronos Station, looking at those video logs, we see that Shepard questions if they're even actually Shepard. So having the clone around allows that to put itself back into Shepard's mind - who am I? Am I really Shepard? Am I just a copy of Shepard, or a VI that thinks it's Shepard, or am I even the real Shepard - if there's one clone, why not two? Why not an army? The fact that those questions exist gets ignored through most of the rest of the game, so at least this makes for some foreshadowing for the later questioning on Cronos. Shepard says that s/he's questioned that, but we don't see it actually happening in-game. Now we at least have something that we can look to and call it something that triggered it, something that can at least back up that questioning.

Granted, it'd have been nice for more aftermath discussion on the topic beyond just Miranda's apartment visit, but it's at least there when it wasn't before.

[Getorex]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Alikain wrote...

Am sorry I can't agree most of the thing you said OP. how can it luck context. Have you watch Babylon 5 shadow wars. If you haven't I Suggest you should go and watch it. Because it Demonstrate the same feel of this DLC. We needed a time off to cool down, the Citadel is a big place, just because the galaxy is doom so should the whole citadel reflected a dark gloomy sense of impending Distraction.

That's perfectly fine.  I wouldn't imagine everyone would agree with my view points. To address the comment about Babylon 5...no I haven't seen it. Perhaps I will sometime soon. 

There are strong parallels between B5 and ME, though I imagine unintentional.  B5 had the good sense to stretch the Shadow story arc (the Reapers) over a long span of time (5 years of the series) so that other stories of note could be presented and characters developed thoroughly.  Bioware could have (SHOULD have) done the same with ME instead of rushing through a trilogy: Wham, Bam, Thank you ma'am and done.  The Reaper story and its ultimate resolution SHOULD have been done over time with intervening games to flesh out characters and the ME universe.  Instead they went immediately for the money shot and blew their wad right away.  No more story.

[TJBartlemus]

Getorex wrote...

There are strong parallels between B5 and ME, though I imagine unintentional.  B5 had the good sense to stretch the Shadow story arc (the Reapers) over a long span of time (5 years of the series) so that other stories of note could be presented and characters developed thoroughly.  Bioware could have (SHOULD have) done the same with ME instead of rushing through a trilogy: Wham, Bam, Thank you ma'am and done.  The Reaper story and its ultimate resolution SHOULD have been done over time with intervening games to flesh out characters and the ME universe.  Instead they went immediately for the money shot and blew their wad right away.  No more story.

I know right? The Reaper invasion / war should of taken place over several more games rather than one. Absolute waste of potential in my opinion. 

[TJBartlemus]

Getorex wrote...

Sure, the Citadel DLC is out of place but there really wasn't much place to put it given its intent (largely fan service).  It adds nothing at all to the overall plot and there are no references to the party or other things later in the game.  I'm OK with that because I just enjoyed the whole thing in spite of it being out of place.  Hell, the only reason I'm playing again and even found out about the Citadel (and Omega) DLC is because I was recently informed that there was an ending mod (MEHEM) that fixes the ending such that I was interested in playing again.  I installed MEHEM and started playing, found out about the 2 new DLCs and then informed the person who told me about MEHEM.  Now we are both replaying. 

The whole thing, INCLUDING the party, isn't pointless if you go with MEHEM too.  If you do the party late enough in the game you also get an additional nice LI interaction in addition to the final one before doing the real end (though in MEHEM you get yet another glimpse of your Shep with your LI after it's ALL over).

 As shown though there is still a glaring problem with the ending even with the EC. Polls and public opinion stated over and over again have proven this fact. You yourself have even admitted to this fact if not directly, by stating that the only reason you have started playing again is because of the MEHEM which fixes only part of the problem. 

 I feel much of the reason that people are clinging to and associating the DLC as the best ever is because they feel it is (with serious imagination) their true ending they wanted the whole time. The reason I find a problem with this is (and partially with MEHEM cause it creates the same effect), as stated in the Gamefront article in the OP, just proving to BioWare that all the problem with the ending was that it wasn't happy enough.

[DarkSpiral]

Bill Casey wrote...

The DLC captured the core themes of Mass Effect...
A bunch of different and diverse alien cultures coming together of their own volition to solve problems...

When the clone asked what makes shepard so different, and quickly realizes just how alone he's made himself is brilliant stuff...

*blink blink*

omfg! 

 I am obviously thick as a stone block.  That passed completely over my head.  You're absolutely right, and thanks for pointing that out! 

On topic: Citadel, for me, is all about when you play it.  Lair of the Shadow Broker is a good comparison, because even though you can play through that DLC prior to the SM, I haven't ever done so.  Citadel is much the same.  You can wait until just before the Cerberus Base, but I think experienceing all of Citadel's content in one big lump is actually not the entended experience.  Rather than pulling me out of the game, I felt it was holding a magnifying glass to the time you already spend on the Citadel space station.  Obviously there is enough time for the crew to disembark and relax, as you see that happening in vanilla when you run into your crew while taking care of your own business.  Now Shepard simply has more options to take up his/her time while s/he's there.

Modifié par DarkSpiral, 19 mars 2013 - 01:40 .

[chadesh]

it was a tad to short, (finished under 2 hours)but it seems most games and dlc are shorter then normal these days. It was fluff to appeases the masses. that all

[Kabooooom]

Rikketik wrote...

In my opinion, Citadel is so good precisely because it's lighthearted and has nothing do to with the general plot (or tone) of ME3. I like the story of the game, at least up until the last thirty minutes or so, but I always find myself mentally... tired... of all the death and destruction that piles up over the course of the game. Citadel remedied that somewhat by giving me some much needed comedy relief. Playing it all in one go is a bit overkill, but playing the central story arc just after the Cerberus coup prevents it from feeling too out of place and the squad member events are great to play in between missions. The party, lastly, is best reserved for either just before the final missions or immediately after the ending.

So in short: I agree that the story lacks context and all, but it just doesn't bother me. In fact, it might be one of the better qualities of the DLC, in my opinion at least.

This. Finally someone gets it. I do disagree about where to play it though. After trying it post coup, post Rannoch and end game: it is best post Rannoch. It just feels right there. It's the only place the Normandy has really 'seen action', it is following on the heels of a major victory rather than a relative defeat (Coup- Citadel attacked, Udina dead, general mood is somber), and it improves pacing dramatically. Omega should be played right after the Coup, Citadel right after Rannoch in my opinion. Try it, and you'll see.

[TJBartlemus]

Kabooooom wrote...

Rikketik wrote...

In my opinion, Citadel is so good precisely because it's lighthearted and has nothing do to with the general plot (or tone) of ME3. I like the story of the game, at least up until the last thirty minutes or so, but I always find myself mentally... tired... of all the death and destruction that piles up over the course of the game. Citadel remedied that somewhat by giving me some much needed comedy relief. Playing it all in one go is a bit overkill, but playing the central story arc just after the Cerberus coup prevents it from feeling too out of place and the squad member events are great to play in between missions. The party, lastly, is best reserved for either just before the final missions or immediately after the ending.

So in short: I agree that the story lacks context and all, but it just doesn't bother me. In fact, it might be one of the better qualities of the DLC, in my opinion at least.

This. Finally someone gets it. I do disagree about where to play it though. After trying it post coup, post Rannoch and end game: it is best post Rannoch. It just feels right there. It's the only place the Normandy has really 'seen action', it is following on the heels of a major victory rather than a relative defeat (Coup- Citadel attacked, Udina dead, general mood is somber), and it improves pacing dramatically. Omega should be played right after the Coup, Citadel right after Rannoch in my opinion. Try it, and you'll see.

I would also figure playing the DLC right after Thessia would be a tad of a buzz kill right? 

[Sajuro]

o Ventus wrote...

The marketing for Citadel pushes the "it's fanservice" angle. Hell, the announcement blog even says "one last journey with your friends and romances". You're deluding yourself if you thought it was goin to be dark and gloomy.

I'm amazed people miss this.

I'm amazed that even when we love things we are still trying to find ways to say it sucks

[TJBartlemus]

Sajuro wrote...

I'm amazed that even when we love things we are still trying to find ways to say it sucks

Nothing is ever perfect. And if you believe the contrary for a second, in my opinion, that is quite foolish. 

[Sovereign330]

my level of disagreement is so high its ridiculous. BUT...i will take a cup of your personal dissatisfaction and chug it...mmm...your pain is delicious

[CronoDragoon]

TJBartlemus wrote...
 Citadel isn’t about good storytelling, it’s about feel-good storytelling. And it’s not that there’s no place for that in either games or in Mass Effect — indeed, break Citadel up into 20 or so pieces and it would have worked great sprinkled throughout Mass Effect 3.

Someone tell this GameFront guy that you can do exactly this.

But the DLC represents a departure from what Mass Effect is, and it sets a precedent in which pandering to fans supersedes telling great stories well. And that’s no better than the situation we were left with at the end of Mass Effect 3 a year ago.

I am perfectly fine with Citadel-type storytelling, since it's still going to come with deep characterization spread out over the course of the game. BioWare plots are nothing special and only serve as vehicles for the characters to shine.