369 réponses à ce sujet

[nos_astra]

KainD wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Jack can join the list. Wrex was a mercenary for centuries, Miranda was the second in command of a notorious terrorist organization, Morinth makes Jack look cuddly by comparison, Samara kills without remorse or hesitation, Zaeed....well he's Zaeed. Jack is pretty par for the course

You forgot an Assassin Thane. Kasumi which is a thief who kinda shadowstrikes those random guards, who just work there. Grunt, who likes to smash stuff. Garrus who takes justice and execution into his own hands.

And there's your reason why I think ME2 characters are overrated. 

They kill for the rule of cool.

[Vexille]

ME2 Jack and ME3 jack might as well be 2 different characters... I didnt even see it as real character progression... in ME2 she was clearly portrayed as a psychopath... in ME3 she is suddenly not, thats not something that you ... dont just suddenly stop being a psycho and turn into a caring TEACHER of all things over a couple months.

it just came off as poor writing

[Saiyan1126]

Vexille wrote...

ME2 Jack and ME3 jack might as well be 2 different characters... I didnt even see it as real character progression... in ME2 she was clearly portrayed as a psychopath... in ME3 she is suddenly not, thats not something that you ... dont just suddenly stop being a psycho and turn into a caring TEACHER of all things over a couple months.

it just came off as poor writing

The power of love...

All Renegade squadmate conversations were pretty much retconned, and Jack's Paragon conversations automatically ended up at pre-romance. So even if you didn't romance Jack you still automatically get the same outcome.

[Steelcan]

KainD wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Jack can join the list. Wrex was a mercenary for centuries, Miranda was the second in command of a notorious terrorist organization, Morinth makes Jack look cuddly by comparison, Samara kills without remorse or hesitation, Zaeed....well he's Zaeed. Jack is pretty par for the course

You forgot an Assassin Thane. Kasumi which is a thief who kinda shadowstrikes those random guards, who just work there. Grunt, who likes to smash stuff. Garrus who takes justice and execution into his own hands. 

. Just icing on the cake!

[iOnlySignIn]

So is my Shepard. And neither of them cares.

/thread

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 17 mars 2013 - 02:30 .

[Ieldra]

@OP:
That's why I didn't like her presence in ME2. We could never say "You see, I'm willing to take you because someone assures me you're worth it, but I sure don't trust you given your past." 

She proves herself in the SM, and I like what she's become in ME3, but roleplaying-wise I would never have taken her on in ME2. I wonder who thought it a good idea to force an unstable super-biotic who hates everything Cerberus on the team.

@Edit:
I should add that it's not the fact she did all these things that makes her untrustworthy, but that she did it on a whim. The only reason I knew she wouldn't go on a murdering rampage on my ship was because of meta-reasons. I doubted Bioware would write something like that into their story.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 17 mars 2013 - 02:32 .

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
That's why I didn't like her presence in ME2. We could never say "You see, I'm willing to take you because someone assures me you're worth it, but I sure don't trust you given your past." 

She proves herself in the SM, and I like what she's become in ME3, but roleplaying-wise I would never have taken her on in ME2. I wonder who thought it a good idea to force an unstable super-biotic who hates everything Cerberus on the team.

. Brooks

[Wayning_Star]

Kind of an old The Dirty Dozen  movie troupe.

addendum: with a little

[MrDbow]

Rhayak wrote...
I personally think that's true on a Shepard-by-Shepard basis.

Pretty much.  As it pertains to any character, one Shepard would despise Jack, another would applaud Jack, another would see Jack to "protect from herself," another would see Jack and "control her."

How you play your Shepard will determine how you "approach" Jack.

[Wayning_Star]

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
That's why I didn't like her presence in ME2. We could never say "You see, I'm willing to take you because someone assures me you're worth it, but I sure don't trust you given your past." 

She proves herself in the SM, and I like what she's become in ME3, but roleplaying-wise I would never have taken her on in ME2. I wonder who thought it a good idea to force an unstable super-biotic who hates everything Cerberus on the team.

. Brooks

Brooks = evil Miranda?

[Dean_the_Young]

GoldenPersona wrote...

Nearly everyone you grow to love in these game is a mass murderer lol.

Or just plain murderer for hire. Remember our first meeting with Wrex, in which he threatens cops who have the nerve to warn him off from death threats he fully intends to carry out?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
That's why I didn't like her presence in ME2. We could never say "You see, I'm willing to take you because someone assures me you're worth it, but I sure don't trust you given your past." 

She proves herself in the SM, and I like what she's become in ME3, but roleplaying-wise I would never have taken her on in ME2. I wonder who thought it a good idea to force an unstable super-biotic who hates everything Cerberus on the team.

. Brooks

Brooks = evil Miranda?

Brooks is, I believe, meant to be a dark counterpart to Miranda. The parallels are all there. It's even more poignant if you romance Miranda. Really makes me wish I had Miranda with me on the Clone mission.

[Saiyan1126]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
That's why I didn't like her presence in ME2. We could never say "You see, I'm willing to take you because someone assures me you're worth it, but I sure don't trust you given your past." 

She proves herself in the SM, and I like what she's become in ME3, but roleplaying-wise I would never have taken her on in ME2. I wonder who thought it a good idea to force an unstable super-biotic who hates everything Cerberus on the team.

Problem with ME2 in general. It railroaded you into decisions. You can say the same for someone who didn't want to be friendly with Miranda. Sole Survivor (default) Shepard never really got to voice his anti-Cerberus opinions. I just headcanon'd Shepard and Jack bonded over their hate for Cerberus.

[Wayning_Star]

Saiyan1126 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
That's why I didn't like her presence in ME2. We could never say "You see, I'm willing to take you because someone assures me you're worth it, but I sure don't trust you given your past." 

She proves herself in the SM, and I like what she's become in ME3, but roleplaying-wise I would never have taken her on in ME2. I wonder who thought it a good idea to force an unstable super-biotic who hates everything Cerberus on the team.

Problem with ME2 in general. It railroaded you into decisions. You can say the same for someone who didn't want to be friendly with Miranda. Sole Survivor (default) Shepard never really got to voice his anti-Cerberus opinions. I just headcanon'd Shepard and Jack bonded over their hate for Cerberus.

the only friend I had that works to upend reaperships is the catalyst..lol

[Jarl Johnnie Walker]

I don't know man. Jack reminds me of myself at times.

[TheProtheans]

Miranda, Garrus, Wrex, Javik, James, EDI, Jack, Mordin, Samara, Legion and Thane are all mass murders and deserve to die for their crimes.

Tali, Ashley, Liara are innocent for the most part.
Kaidan killed a Turian instructor and I am pretty sure Jacob is black.

[w0lfam0da1s]

GoldenPersona wrote...

Nykara wrote...

GoldenPersona wrote...

Nearly everyone you grow to love in these game is a mass murderer lol.

There is a difference between killing someone in defense who is shooting at you then just outright going and killing someone for the hell of it. They also don't generally go around killing civilians for no reason. Just sayin'.

Murder is murder, no matter how sentient life tries to twist the definition to justify it. Sentient life doesn't have the right to decide between good and bad, there is no such thing. Murder is murder. The intentional killing of life.

Any kind of circumstance, situation, justification that sentient life tries to add onto it to heal their concious is BS.

I'm not questioning their morals or anything. It's just that murdering to save another's life is still murder. Even if it's to save your own life. Murder is murder lol.

You know that nice kid in ME2 whose gun you can jam? Well he is a nice kid trying to get by, and if you don't jam the gun Garrus kills him. Garrus kills a good soul that's just confused. Who knows how many mercs are like that?

Take Jacob's loyalty mission where you shoot and kill the hunters. The hunters are the real victims, but we shoot them anyway. To survive? Sure, but it's still murder.

We all kill to servive. It's how life is.
So you say it's all murder. Then we are all cold blooded killers. ALL of us. Not just in the game but in real life.
We all kill/murder to servive.
We even kill other humans along with animals and plants to servive.
So keep that in mind when you call some one a murderer.

Take that for what you will
Have a good day

[DWH1982]

I like her role in ME3, but there are indeed issues regarding how she changed so quickly. I also question why in the world Grissom Academy would even let someone with that background around children. Shepard was surprised to see her there, so I guess he didn't vouch for her. She must have come up with a fake identity or something. Or perhaps when she talks to us in ME2, she embellishes her background a bit.

I don't think ME3 should have been set in 2186. Should have been a few years after Arrival. At least 2189, They could have just said that it took a long time for the Reapers to "walk" to the next relay. There were just too many changes - to the Normandy, and to the characters.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

Jack can join the list. Wrex was a mercenary for centuries, Miranda was the second in command of a notorious terrorist organization, Morinth makes Jack look cuddly by comparison, Samara kills without remorse or hesitation, Zaeed....well he's Zaeed. Jack is pretty par for the course

And Thane, a Drell master assassin who's been doing his job since he was 6 years old, Garrus, an ex-C-sec cop who went vigilante on Omega and carried out extra-lawful killings (doesn't matter what his intent was, it was still outside legal bounds and thus murder. Even if Omega has no government), Grunt, a cheery baby-adult Krogan that likes to smash things, Mordin, a former STG Operative and Renaissance-man-esque scientist responsible for reintroducing the Genophage. Liara becomes the SB in ME2, and prior to ME3, she is pretty ruthless. Kasumi has probably had to kill in her line of work before too. And since she's a thief, it is murder and robbery. Jacob also worked for Cerberus (though I doubt he took part in anything too extreme). James even killed an entire colony (indirectly) to get information about the Collectors. Who knows what Javik has done...

The only "strait" characters so to speak are Ashley, Kaidan, and Tali. And they're some of the worst characters IMO.

I didn't include either Legion or EDI.

[RPGmom28]

I always assumed she was just BSing and making stuff up to impress Shepard when she talks about all of the stuff she's done, especially when she turns out the way she does in ME3. Of course, Aresh's dialogue seems to add some credence to what she has said. Though on Pragia, when she talks about the arena fights, there seems to be some kind of either pride there or fond nostalgic memories going on, which is awful either way, I'll grant you. I did actually like her in ME3, particularly with a maleShep that romanced her.

[Wayning_Star]

TheProtheans wrote...

Miranda, Garrus, Wrex, Javik, James, EDI, Jack, Mordin, Samara, Legion and Thane are all mass murders and deserve to die for their crimes.

Tali, Ashley, Liara are innocent for the most part.
Kaidan killed a Turian instructor and I am pretty sure Jacob is black.

Grunt is pretty tame really..lol

[N7 Banshee Bait]

She didn't know any better. It was the scum she was hanging around with that influenced her. That's why it's in her past & she's not like that now. I did a lot of stupid **** back when I was a teenager that I would never do now. I hung around a lot a-holes that I wouldn't even give the time of day to now.

[Saiyan1126]

TheProtheans wrote...

Miranda, Garrus, Wrex, Javik, James, EDI, Jack, Mordin, Samara, Legion and Thane are all mass murders and deserve to die for their crimes.

Tali, Ashley, Liara are innocent for the most part.
Kaidan killed a Turian instructor and I am pretty sure Jacob is black.

Tali killed her pursuers (even trapped one in an incinerator with her dying comrade). Ashley kills for a living as a soldier and Spectre. Liara as a information/Shadow Broker flays people alive... WITH HER MIND.

[Wayning_Star]

In a way Jack is presented as 'indoctrinated' the "old fashioned way...no reapers needed..had humans for that?

[nos_astra]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GoldenPersona wrote...
Nearly everyone you grow to love in these game is a mass murderer lol.

Or just plain murderer for hire. Remember our first meeting with Wrex, in which he threatens cops who have the nerve to warn him off from death threats he fully intends to carry out?

The weakest part of his character arc. The problem is not that they are killers (well, not always), the problem is that you have to recruit these guys and their background is just handwaved.

It's probably quicker to list the characters who don't have a history of unlawful killing prior to meeting Shepard:
- Liara
- Tali

That's it.

- James
- Ashley
I assume James and Ash don't count as unlawful considering their profession.

- Kaidan
Kaidan's first kill Vyrnnus is at least not handwaved and had consequences.

- EDI
- Legion
Synthetics are tricky.

- Kasumi, not a lot is known of her history. She's a thief. She knows how to kill.

- Mordin is known for shooting people. 

- Miranda kills Wilson in front of you. I doubt he was the first one.

- Jacob used to be a corsair and then Cerberus.

- Garrus hates rules that prevent him from shooting someone when he wants to.

- Wrex was a mercenary and you witness spouting death threats at C-Sec officers.

- Samara belongs to a weird order of vigilantes.

- Grunt is a krogan who was bred for killing and is enabled to do just that.

- Jack is a convicted murderer.

- Thane is an assassin.

- Zaeed is a mercenary.

That's pretty bad. 

Modifié par klarabella, 17 mars 2013 - 03:02 .