369 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

and the reaper threat is..... ?

[KainD]

klarabella wrote...
*snip*
That's pretty bad. 

This is actually also the reason I didn't understand why Morinth had to go under disguise on Normandy. Who would have a problem with her? Joker? Not only is the whole crew made of people that wouldn't care too much, but my Shepard also made all those loyalty missions, and made friends with the crew. 

Kasumi and Grunt even know who she is, and mostly don't give a damn. 

[Exile Isan]

The thing about Jack is how much of the stuff she talks about it actually stuff she's done? Or is she just exaggerating about? Don't get me wrong I think Jack has committed crimes, but I always got the feeling she was blowing them out of proportion to what they really were. I also think she says things and acts bad enough it will push people away. "Like an angry apple tree, I throw my apples if you get too close to me." ("Locked Up", Ingrid Michaelson) I think that line applies to Jack.

I can't really fault Jack, though, for the way she is considering what Cereberus did too her. There's also a line in the song "Guardian" by Alanis Morissette that I think applies to Jack "You who was pushed beyond what's humane." Yep, that's Jack.

[w0lfam0da1s]

I forgot to say that we even kill are own body cells.
Like when we take drugs or drink. It doesn't even have to be drugs like crack or weed. It could be drugs like something for a headach or a flu. Too much sugar or cafeene is also bad for our system. It all causes or body to react in diffrent ways sure. but the end result is we kill and damage are cells.
Just throwing that out there for the ones who will say they dont kill animals or plants or other humans. Cause I just know someone will. Also think about this even if we don't take a druge or drink beer or whine. Or even kill animals plants or other humans we are all guilty of it. We pretisipate by letting it happen because we need to eat to servive. also there is war. we kill each other for whatever reason if it be political or not. I'm not going to get deep into it but if you break it down we are all killers/murderers

[frostajulie]

Jacks inhumane talk is not in lockstep with her demonstrated humanity. My Shepard does not believe everything Jack says and what she does believe she can understand and empathize, you can only kick a dog so many times before they turn feral. My Sheps are also perceptive enough to see the potential Jack has and she grooms the socially scarred biotic to become a hero. Jack to me is one of the most enjoyable and complex xharacters in the entire series while I agree going from psychopath to teacher in 6 months is unrealistic it is nowhere near as out of lore or beyond disbelief as those horrible endings. If you can believe synthesis then you can suspend your disbelief enough to recognize what a gem you have in Jack. She is a rich and wonderful character I was happy to have played with in these games.

[spirosz]

Vexille wrote...

ME2 Jack and ME3 jack might as well be 2 different characters... I didnt even see it as real character progression... in ME2 she was clearly portrayed as a psychopath... in ME3 she is suddenly not, thats not something that you ... dont just suddenly stop being a psycho and turn into a caring TEACHER of all things over a couple months.

it just came off as poor writing

She was never a pyschopath.  She always (and that's the key word) had the ability to love and care, she learns from past experiences, that's what kept her alive, but going through what she went through, why should she show it, if I bet more than 99% of the people she's met were going to either kill her, or use her.  There's no equal ground here, so she'll use her defensive mechanisms to stray away from putting in the effort, since she knows that she won't get the same back.  

Now, she has problems, obviously - social problems, can kill you with the blink of an eye, the way she's viewed in "normal" society, based off the ME universe, etc.

Modifié par spirosz, 17 mars 2013 - 03:20 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Were it up to me, several of my Shepards would have opted not to recruit Jack in the first place.

[w0lfam0da1s]

frostajulie wrote...

Jacks inhumane talk is not in lockstep with her demonstrated humanity. My Shepard does not believe everything Jack says and what she does believe she can understand and empathize, you can only kick a dog so many times before they turn feral. My Sheps are also perceptive enough to see the potential Jack has and she grooms the socially scarred biotic to become a hero. Jack to me is one of the most enjoyable and complex xharacters in the entire series while I agree going from psychopath to teacher in 6 months is unrealistic it is nowhere near as out of lore or beyond disbelief as those horrible endings. If you can believe synthesis then you can suspend your disbelief enough to recognize what a gem you have in Jack. She is a rich and wonderful character I was happy to have played with in these games.

I like that.

I have this that I tell my children.

There are wolves in the world. Sometimes the wolves are the good guys. As hard as that is to believe.

When they ask about it I tell them that as much as they look at me as a hero. I was also a killer. Someone who killed in the name of duty. In the eyes of the ones I was to protect I was a hero. In the eyes of the ones I killed I was a monster.

Then they look at my uniform and see the medals and get a confuse look on their face.
They ask about the medals and if I'm proud of them.
All I can say is no not really because what I did to get them. Isn't something to be proud of. Not like you think.
They are older now so they understand.
The medals are a reminder of both the good and bad I did in this world. I was praised for taking a life that as a soldier we are told and trained to do.
If I wasn't a soldier then in the eyes of the law I would be called a murderer.
It's somethinng I know I strugle with.

But yeah Jack is more real in many ways then what we see.

Modifié par w0lfam0da1s, 17 mars 2013 - 03:30 .

[KingWrex]

The funny thing is and none of you seem to mention is the whole reason you recruit all these people is that they are all good at what they do and that is.....killing. These people are soldiers, mercenaries, criminals, assassins; it's what they do.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Jack was raised from birth to kill and to find pleasure from killing, so of course she continued that mindset in adulthood. Yet it wasn't something inherently wrong with her like a mental disease, it was something forced onto her through abuse.

As such, I don't blame Jack for anything she did. The scars of her abuse and the people she surrounded herself with were stifling any chance to heal and grow as a person. She basically goes straight from one prison to another to another her whole life, be they literal or metaphorical, everything and everyone around her reinforcing her entirely broken view of reality. It's only when she meets Shepard that she realizes she doesn't have to be that person.

[pmac_tk421]

It occoured to me at the end of ME2 that the galaxy might have been a better place if she had died, but ME3 and grissom academy changed that for me.

[w0lfam0da1s]

KingWrex wrote...

The funny thing is and none of you seem to mention is the whole reason you recruit all these people is that they are all good at what they do and that is.....killing. These people are soldiers, mercenaries, criminals, assassins; it's what they do.

That's true.

We wouldn't be recruiting them if it was an afternoone tea with the Collectors.

[Saiyan1126]

KingWrex wrote...

The funny thing is and none of you seem to mention is the whole reason you recruit all these people is that they are all good at what they do and that is.....killing. These people are soldiers, mercenaries, criminals, assassins; it's what they do.

I think you're missing the point. Paragon Shep should've been able to recruit Rainbows and Unicorns to kill the Collectors. 


EDIT: I would've payed for a heavy weapon that shot out rainbow deathrays.

Modifié par Saiyan1126, 17 mars 2013 - 03:40 .

[Wayning_Star]

Jack is renegade.. moreso than Shep.. lol Got the bluegreen meanies to back it all up.. Everyone thank Cerberus for torturing her and resurrecting Shep for some reason..

[Wayning_Star]

Physicists developed atomic technology.. so, who cares what it's used for.

[Wayning_Star]

oh, forgot to mention, TAKE BACK OMEGA!!

yay

[w0lfam0da1s]

Saiyan1126 wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

The funny thing is and none of you seem to mention is the whole reason you recruit all these people is that they are all good at what they do and that is.....killing. These people are soldiers, mercenaries, criminals, assassins; it's what they do.

I think you're missing the point. Paragon Shep should've been able to recruit Rainbows and Unicorns to kill the Collectors. 

Ah He** that was just funny.

I like it.

And true if it was to come down to that.

[Ykulnu]

Exile Isan wrote...

The thing about Jack is how much of the stuff she talks about it actually stuff she's done? Or is she just exaggerating about?

This. Playing her loyalty mission made me realize that she isn't just some hurt, scarred girl. She's a goddamn liar. The contradictions you encounter in that mission are so different than what she says that it's impossible for her to have just had some misunderstandings. Also, if she was able to kill tons of trained Cerberus guards during her escape,  then WHY did she allow herself to be used by those people that found her? Yes, I said allowed. Those people weren't trained, and it's not like she suddenly decided to stop killing. Yeah, she had it rough, but that doesn't change facts. Either she is outright lying, or she's even MORE crazy than we know.

Bioware made the mistake of taking her backstory to the extreme, to the point of unfeasability. She could have been a great character if she was toned down.

[spirosz]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Jack was raised from birth to kill and to find pleasure from killing, so of course she continued that mindset in adulthood. Yet it wasn't something inherently wrong with her like a mental disease, it was something forced onto her through abuse.

As such, I don't blame Jack for anything she did. The scars of her abuse and the people she surrounded herself with were stifling any chance to heal and grow as a person. She basically goes straight from one prison to another to another her whole life, be they literal or metaphorical, everything and everyone around her reinforcing her entirely broken view of reality. It's only when she meets Shepard that she realizes she doesn't have to be that person.

Exactly, she isn't a "disease", she was forced into this type of behaviour and bread to view life in a horrible manner.  

[ThatDancingTurian]

Ykulnu wrote...

Also, if she was able to kill tons of trained Cerberus guards during her escape,  then WHY did she allow herself to be used by those people that found her? Yes, I said allowed. Those people weren't trained, and it's not like she suddenly decided to stop killing.

Because she's an abuse victim. She's still human, she needs comfort like any human does. The people who used her manipulated her into thinking she could trust them. I think it's actually common for abuse victims to fall back into old patterns.

[TheKimora01]

Jacks "upbringing" by Cerberus, life after spent with pirates and criminals (doing bad things) and time in a super max prison means the only thing she has known her whole life is violence, abuse and just general evilness. The fact that she didnt kill all the hostages I feel shows that deep down she knew it was wrong and wanted to change but didnt have the support or willpower until she met Shep who helped her to change. All of many Sheps love Jack, some as a friend some as more. I think her story and how much she has grown despite the hand life dealt her is almost perfectly written and shes hands down my fav squaddie out the entire trilogy.

[KingWrex]

Saiyan1126 wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

The funny thing is and none of you seem to mention is the whole reason you recruit all these people is that they are all good at what they do and that is.....killing. These people are soldiers, mercenaries, criminals, assassins; it's what they do.

I think you're missing the point. Paragon Shep should've been able to recruit Rainbows and Unicorns to kill the Collectors. 


EDIT: I would've payed for a heavy weapon that shot out rainbow deathrays.

Lol, Rainbow Cain of Death now for $5.00:P

[spirosz]

Ykulnu wrote...

Exile Isan wrote...

The thing about Jack is how much of the stuff she talks about it actually stuff she's done? Or is she just exaggerating about?

This. Playing her loyalty mission made me realize that she isn't just some hurt, scarred girl. She's a goddamn liar. The contradictions you encounter in that mission are so different than what she says that it's impossible for her to have just had some misunderstandings. Also, if she was able to kill tons of trained Cerberus guards during her escape,  then WHY did she allow herself to be used by those people that found her? Yes, I said allowed. Those people weren't trained, and it's not like she suddenly decided to stop killing. Yeah, she had it rough, but that doesn't change facts. Either she is outright lying, or she's even MORE crazy than we know.

Bioware made the mistake of taking her backstory to the extreme, to the point of unfeasability. She could have been a great character if she was toned down.

Because maybe they influenced Jack into thinking they weren't going to "use" her and see past her restraits and as a "normal" person.  Pragia was like an anchor for her, when she went back there, everything just exploded in her mind, all those memories, the drugs, the abuse.  Now consider the fact that she continued down a horrible path for who knows how long, taking what form of future drugs the ME universe has, of course it's going to **** with her memory.   

When you grow up in her environment, where physical and mental abuse is the first thing she's always exposed to... and then she thinks she's found something different in these new people because it feels different, it looks different, yet she couldn't realize at the time - they're using her, just in different matters.  

[spirosz]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
I think it's actually common for abuse victims to fall back into old patterns.

EXACLTY, what's hard to grasp here.

Her acting the way she did on Pragia made perfect sense to me. 

[nos_astra]

I fail to see how Jack's history making sense makes her any less of a liability.

Her emotional stability and mental health are questionable. She may or may no lie about what she's done in the past. Who would think that recruting her to face more death and destruction would be a good idea for anyone?