spirosz wrote...
I like you Rauhel. That's the mindset I like. Personally, I think hate is a strong word and I don't hate any character tbh, but I do dislike certain actions that were expressed for certain characters.
Still in the process of reading the thread, but I had to take a pause to give mad props to you for the Leverage reference. And if you got it from somewhere else, well, I don't care. Leverage still rules.w0lfam0da1s wrote...
frostajulie wrote...
Jacks inhumane talk is not in lockstep with her demonstrated humanity. My Shepard does not believe everything Jack says and what she does believe she can understand and empathize, you can only kick a dog so many times before they turn feral. My Sheps are also perceptive enough to see the potential Jack has and she grooms the socially scarred biotic to become a hero. Jack to me is one of the most enjoyable and complex xharacters in the entire series while I agree going from psychopath to teacher in 6 months is unrealistic it is nowhere near as out of lore or beyond disbelief as those horrible endings. If you can believe synthesis then you can suspend your disbelief enough to recognize what a gem you have in Jack. She is a rich and wonderful character I was happy to have played with in these games.
I like that.
I have this that I tell my children.
There are wolves in the world. Sometimes the wolves are the good guys. As hard as that is to believe.
When they ask about it I tell them that as much as they look at me as a hero. I was also a killer. Someone who killed in the name of duty. In the eyes of the ones I was to protect I was a hero. In the eyes of the ones I killed I was a monster.
Then they look at my uniform and see the medals and get a confuse look on their face.
They ask about the medals and if I'm proud of them.
All I can say is no not really because what I did to get them. Isn't something to be proud of. Not like you think.
They are older now so they understand.
The medals are a reminder of both the good and bad I did in this world. I was praised for taking a life that as a soldier we are told and trained to do.
If I wasn't a soldier then in the eyes of the law I would be called a murderer.
It's somethinng I know I strugle with.
But yeah Jack is more real in many ways then what we see.
OniTYME wrote...
I'd like to know something. Who did Jack kill "for the hell of it"? Cause it certainly wasn't those folks who helped her into their bed. She felt as if it were a kill or be killed situation and that ain't just killing for fun. Also, she was conditioned to enjoy fighting due to Cerberus. Her attitude is no worse than Wrex in ME1. Both admit they've had to kill a lot, each with their own reasons.
Obadiah wrote...
Didn't Jack just flat out say she likes killing people when Shep asks her about it? She basically justified her actions philosophically, as opposed to just saying it was self-defense. Sounds sociopathic to me.
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
I'd probably give you that under normal "by my own choice" conditions. Like others have said though, she was conditioned to react to violence as she does against her will.Obadiah wrote...
Didn't Jack just flat out say she likes killing people when Shep asks her about it? She basically justified her actions philosophically, as opposed to just saying it was self-defense. Sounds sociopathic to me.
Yup, she would get drug injections that gave her pleasure everytime she fought the other kids, or something twisted like that. She never stood a chance.J. Reezy wrote...
I'd probably give you that under normal "by my own choice" conditions. Like others have said though, she was conditioned to react to violence as she does against her will.Obadiah wrote...
Didn't Jack just flat out say she likes killing people when Shep asks her about it? She basically justified her actions philosophically, as opposed to just saying it was self-defense. Sounds sociopathic to me.
Modifié par Rauhel, 17 mars 2013 - 08:54 .
Even taking that statement into account, you could surmise that she's got a good point. Though she kinda mentions it in a matter-of-fact sort of way. Keep a bunch of people who can complicate things is a situation (going off to fight back, etc.) or cut them out altogether?spirosz wrote...
OniTYME wrote...
I'd like to know something. Who did Jack kill "for the hell of it"? Cause it certainly wasn't those folks who helped her into their bed. She felt as if it were a kill or be killed situation and that ain't just killing for fun. Also, she was conditioned to enjoy fighting due to Cerberus. Her attitude is no worse than Wrex in ME1. Both admit they've had to kill a lot, each with their own reasons.
I was confused about this as well, I don't recall her saying anything along those lines and I believe the OP was referring to the scene about her taking hostages and stating it's "easier" to just kill them before hijacking.
Rauhel wrote...
She never really had a first chance at a real life, so the least I could do was offer her a second one.
I don't think she was ever a psychopath, I think she was clearly misguided and deluded herself into thinking this is how the universe works.
That's basicially what they were going for I believe, she distrusts authority figures like Shepard, hasn't had good experiances with them before hand (cult leaders, law enforcement, Cerebrus Scientists etc.).Sauruz wrote...
I guess she's a rebel and doesn't like to be told what to do.klarabella wrote...
If that's true it makes her a pretty undefined character.Greylycantrope wrote...
From what I remember Jack will always want to do the opposite of what you're telling her. Paragon and Renegade setting persuade her otherwise in each case, she's all for killing him in the former and hestant about it in the later since she's not sure if killing him will help her deal with her issues. Not sure about the none peruasive options.Sauruz wrote...
Interestingly, Jack will refuse to kill Aresh if you tell her to do it. I don't even know whether he can end up dead unless you do it yourself via Renegade encounter.
I'm not sure it helps accept the bullsh!t character arc of healing through revenge and more violence at the side of Special McAwesomesauce.
Bottom line, she wouldn't go through with killing him unless Shepard pressures her to do it.
HJF4 wrote...
If you mod ME2, you can avoid recruiting Jack. In ME3, you can set Jack to dead and then remove her name on the memorial wall. It's like she never existed.
That's a different discussion altogether. There are a ton of decisions that got streamlined in ME3, not just Jack.Obadiah wrote...
@spirosz
@J. Reezy
@Rauhel
Right, so Sheps gets to optionally try to lead her down a different path.
Ykulnu wrote...
Then again, she was meant to be a squad member in ME3 before Tali was shoehorned in, so the backstory for 3 is somewhat understandably contrived. Same goes for her lack of content.
How so? The OP speaks of Sheps's response. I simply commented on what Shep could do.Rauhel wrote...
That's a different discussion altogether. There are a ton of decisions that got streamlined in ME3, not just Jack.Obadiah wrote...
@spirosz
@J. Reezy
@Rauhel
Right, so Sheps gets to optionally try to lead her down a different path.
I thought you were commenting on the fact that Jack ends up on Grissom whether Shepard was a positive influence on her or not. I'm saying that Shepards that tried to steer Jack down the wrong path got retconned just like Udina being the councilor even if you picked Anderson was a retcon. ME3 streamlining a few player decisions is a bigger topic that isn't exclusive to Jack. That's what it's a different discussion.Obadiah wrote...
How so? The OP speaks of Sheps's response. I simply commented on what Shep could do.Rauhel wrote...
That's a different discussion altogether. There are a ton of decisions that got streamlined in ME3, not just Jack.Obadiah wrote...
@spirosz
@J. Reezy
@Rauhel
Right, so Sheps gets to optionally try to lead her down a different path.
Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 17 mars 2013 - 10:33 .
Shaleist wrote...
Personally I don't get the sense that Jack had many run ins with a whole lot of 'innocent' people in her life. And I take it the ones that were, probably didn't get murdered. Maybe kidnapped *lol* but whatever. That said... who pray-tell on the Normandy isn't a killer? I'll be waiting for your reply.
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