78 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

MrScottBear wrote...

L2Read

I never once said he was useless.  I said everything that he does, another class can do better.  Which is the unfortunate truth.  And I know how to play him.  Simple enough to ED - Shoot - Incinerate - dead nonboss.  I DO however, agree about variety.  I got into it with a friend this morning when he was going on about how every engineer is bad.  Fact is though, most folks ar going to ignore said variety unless the variety has something unique to it.

Even with your changes people still aren't going to use him much outside of camping setups.

and it seems as though the Rio campers are doing just fine without him.

[jrm_ayun]

Cyonan wrote...

MrScottBear wrote...

L2Read

I never once said he was useless.  I said everything that he does, another class can do better.  Which is the unfortunate truth.  And I know how to play him.  Simple enough to ED - Shoot - Incinerate - dead nonboss.  I DO however, agree about variety.  I got into it with a friend this morning when he was going on about how every engineer is bad.  Fact is though, most folks ar going to ignore said variety unless the variety has something unique to it.

Even with your changes people still aren't going to use him much outside of camping setups.

and it seems as though the Rio campers are doing just fine without him.

I know me and a friend of mine will use him and not camp if decoy went back to it's original state. Variety of gameplay I guess.

[MrScottBear]

Cyonan wrote...

MrScottBear wrote...

L2Read

I never once said he was useless.  I said everything that he does, another class can do better.  Which is the unfortunate truth.  And I know how to play him.  Simple enough to ED - Shoot - Incinerate - dead nonboss.  I DO however, agree about variety.  I got into it with a friend this morning when he was going on about how every engineer is bad.  Fact is though, most folks ar going to ignore said variety unless the variety has something unique to it.

Even with your changes people still aren't going to use him much outside of camping setups.

and it seems as though the Rio campers are doing just fine without him.

I certainly would.  :V  And hell, wouldn't he actually be bad for Rio Farming?  I assume it's mostly Volus Engineers, smash adepts, flamer characters and Paladins.

[Cyonan]

MrScottBear wrote...

I certainly would.  :V  And hell, wouldn't he actually be bad for Rio Farming?  I assume it's mostly Volus Engineers, smash adepts, flamer characters and Paladins.

To be honest I have no idea how he would be for Rio camping since I don't do it.

The thing with decoy is that in my experience most people are just going to rush ahead of it and not let it take aggro. Or by the time you've run around the group to flank it half of it's going to be dead already.

and I don't believe that they can remove the melee targets thing without a patch that we're not getting, so I wouldn't have very high hopes for that one.

[Blarg]

I actually saw one yesterday. Given, it was a bronze match, but still.

Anyways, I support a buff. Preferably a massive one to Decoy or his passives.

[LeandroBraz]

MrScottBear wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

I'm not against a buff but seriously, I can't stand you guys calling the decoy useless. By the way, I was playing the SE yesterday, so yeah, there still people that use it...

- If you used the decoy before the patch ONLY to hold melee units, you was doing it wrong. It was good for that purpose, but equally good to attract ranged attacks and grenades, which he still does, if you know how to use it.

- It's unfortunate that most players have this mentality that if X is better than Y, so I won't use Y anymore. Playing the Paladin and the SE are two completely different experience. The paladin can tank better? Yeah, that's why when I don't want to play as a tank, I choose SE, which I play in a completely different way (using the decoy to flank and control the enemies). What keep this game interesting is it's variety, I can play in different ways with different weapons and characters. Not playing the SE only because the Paladin is better is a bad argument. Both are effective and both are fun to play with.

Move around and flank the enemy with the d*mn decoy, for god sake, it's not that hard. Do you want a buff? Nice, I want too, but stop calling it useless and L2P with it...

L2Read

I never once said he was useless.  I said everything that he does, another class can do better.  Which is the unfortunate truth.  And I know how to play him.  Simple enough to ED - Shoot - Incinerate - dead nonboss.  I DO however, agree about variety.  I got into it with a friend this morning when he was going on about how every engineer is bad.  Fact is though, most folks ar going to ignore said variety unless the variety has something unique to it.

You didn't said, but it's basically what most people is saying here and in every thread that pop up about the decoy. It's like their decoy and my decoy are two completely different things...

 I would like to play a game where people don't think like this. I get mad when I'm playing like a boss with something, then I come here and read that the thing I was using to make the enemies cry for their moms is useless because other thing is so much better. 
 

[LeandroBraz]

Cyonan wrote...

MrScottBear wrote...

I certainly would.  :V  And hell, wouldn't he actually be bad for Rio Farming?  I assume it's mostly Volus Engineers, smash adepts, flamer characters and Paladins.

To be honest I have no idea how he would be for Rio camping since I don't do it.

The thing with decoy is that in my experience most people are just going to rush ahead of it and not let it take aggro. Or by the time you've run around the group to flank it half of it's going to be dead already.

and I don't believe that they can remove the melee targets thing without a patch that we're not getting, so I wouldn't have very high hopes for that one.

 Not on most pugs. Some matches if I put the decoy and hide to see what will happen, the enemies will kill the decoy and my team long before their are dead. Yesterday I saved a considerable number of pug ass*s with my decoy. 

[LeandroBraz]

Cyonan wrote...

MrScottBear wrote...

L2Read

I never once said he was useless.  I said everything that he does, another class can do better.  Which is the unfortunate truth.  And I know how to play him.  Simple enough to ED - Shoot - Incinerate - dead nonboss.  I DO however, agree about variety.  I got into it with a friend this morning when he was going on about how every engineer is bad.  Fact is though, most folks ar going to ignore said variety unless the variety has something unique to it.

Even with your changes people still aren't going to use him much outside of camping setups.

and it seems as though the Rio campers are doing just fine without him.

The last thing I do with decoy is camping, actually I move like crazy around the enemy, buying time for me and for the team.

[Stabby McGoodstab]

Change Decoy Shock evolution:

Less damage, more range, maybe more ROF = stagger anything that gets near, including melee enemies.

They won't be entranced by it like they used to, but it's an improvement.

[LeandroBraz]

DragoGoldenwing wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

I'm not against a buff but seriously, I can't stand you guys calling the decoy useless. By the way, I was playing the SE yesterday, so yeah, there still people that use it...

- If you used the decoy before the patch ONLY to hold melee units, you was doing it wrong. It was good for that purpose, but equally good to attract ranged attacks and grenades, which he still does, if you know how to use it.

- It's unfortunate that most players have this mentality that if X is better than Y, so I won't use Y anymore. Playing the Paladin and the SE are two completely different experience. The paladin can tank better? Yeah, that's why when I don't want to play as a tank, I choose SE, which I play in a completely different way (using the decoy to flank and control the enemies). What keep this game interesting is it's variety, I can play in different ways with different weapons and characters. Not playing the SE only because the Paladin is better is a bad argument. Both are effective and both are fun to play with.

Move around and flank the enemy with the d*mn decoy, for god sake, it's not that hard. Do you want a buff? Nice, I want too, but stop calling it useless and L2P with it...

Hard to move around and flank the enemy with the damn Decoy when the groups of enemies contain melee units that ignore the Decoy but use its presence to home in on you since you have to be pretty close to drop the thing, and they've lowered the number of ranged units that can be attacking it simultaneously to the point that enough of the group is going to ignore the Decoy and come gunning for you anyway to put you in seriously hot water.

And if you're not going after grouped enemies for tech burst damage, you're doing it wrong.  The SE invites a CC/AoE playstyle, but the Decoy has lost almost all of its CC ability compared to what it used to be able to do - and what makes keeping it in such a state an incredibly questionable decision is that they redesigned FBW anyway so huddling in the corner with a Decoy in the middle is no longer a valid strategy anyway.

But they're leaving Decoy alone in its weakened, nerfed state because they'd rather not have people find ways to emulate FBW with the old, good Decoy power.

- Melee units? Learn to roll, and even if the decoy won't attract something like a brute, it's a lot easier to "dance" with it while ranged units shoot the decoy insteady of you.

- If in a group of 4 enemies, 2 stop shooting you, you already have advantage. If you are good at using the decoy with the environment to flank and deceive, none will be able to shoot you. Seriously, it's a matter of knowing how to use the advantage it give you.

- I do a lot of explosions with SE while using the decoy to make it easier for me and for the team, huddling in the corner is the last thing I do with it. I'm always at the spawn, making the enemies look more stup*d than usual...

[Boretsky]

I still use him now and then as a hit and run guy, very fun, I like him with the indra. I would like them to un-nerf the decoy and instead put a timer on how long it distracts enemies, around ten seconds would be enough for things like objectives. or maybe only distracts enemies till they shoot it a few times.

[ABjerre]

I agree that the kit is "lacking" at best. As with other kits, whom i wont mention here, good players will be able to perform very well with the kit, but putting the same player behind another tech class, putting in the same effort would probably yield a better result.

I am left with the feeling that the SE has been yet another victim of a classic case of "Double Nerf":

Bioware attempts to solve a problem with the implementation of Ajustment X (A:X from now on). This proves ineffective, so eventually they try again and implement Ajustment Y (A:Y), which proves very effective.
However, they subsequently forget to, or merely decides not to, roll back A:X ultimately leaving the kit/class/power/weapon in question, and others along with it, feeling somewhat lackluster.

In this particular case, i suspect that the farming of FB:White was the reason behind the initial pet nerf, as the original tactic of performing it was heavily reliant on the use of pets as decoys. Pets were nerfed (this was the A:X),which changed nothing, and subsequently the map itself was changed (A:Y) ultimately solving the problem with farming of it.

However, they never re-buffed pet classes by rolling back A:X to bring them back up to par.

The same goes for Biotic vs Tech powers and weapons, Hunter Mode on the GI back when Krysae was godlike, Typhoon+Piranha on the Destroyer and so forth.

Modifié par ABjerre, 17 mars 2013 - 06:03 .

[january42]

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

I actually saw one yesterday. Given, it was a bronze match, but still.

Anyways, I support a buff. Preferably a massive one to Decoy or his passives.

Well, if it's bronze, it could very well be someone who hasn't unlocked many characthers. If he was one of the chars I had other than the base humans I might use him....and then realize the human engi is better.

One thing would be to up the range at which Decoy can be deployed. (This would help other power also, like the Hex Shield and BioDome). That way, you could at least distract enemies by placing it much closer to them than the team. This would also make the shock evolution more useful.

Honestly, I think it's a borderline impossible power to balance. If it works, it's Op, but it doesn't, it's worthless.

Cyonan's aggro post helps when using it, but it also makes you realize that it's kinda worthless.  The playable decoys (Jugg, Kroguard and Krolord) are just way more useful.

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

hes great on the cqc maps, but big and open maps makes him a target, and a target that cannot attack back effectivly without equiping some heavy weapon in turn slowing his powers making him a soldier with tech utility, or you go light loadout and limit him to fighting in very small areas of the map.
not helpful on u/u/g games where you dont know what map your getting

Modifié par ROBOTICSUPERMAN, 17 mars 2013 - 06:11 .

[january42]

In this particular case, i suspect that the farming of FB:White was the reason behind the initial pet nerf, as the original tactic of performing it was heavily reliant on the use of pets as decoys. Pets were nerfed (this was the A:X),which changed nothing, and subsequently the map itself was changed (A:Y) ultimately solving the problem with farming of it.

However, they never re-buffed pet classes by rolling back A:X to bring them back up to par.

The same goes for Biotic vs Tech powers and weapons, Hunter Mode on the GI back when Krysae was godlike, Typhoon+Piranha on the Destroyer and so forth.

You forgot one.  Smash was nerfed because of a single room on a single map that doesn't even exist anymore.

I'm not sure that was the reason. I got dropped into a ton of FBWG farming lobbies and there wern't that many SE's back then either. I'm not sure if that was really the reason.

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

What's with the wishy-washyness of the thread title?

Kinda?

Decoy is uber-poopoo.

[FellowMusicFan]

Decoy needs an aggro buff outside of the Geth faction. For whatever reason Geth are still pretty drawn to it, especially Primes, so it is useful there. But all other factions pay absolutely no attention to it. They will only bother with it if they got shocked by it, and if they did it depends on the unit if it'll continue to bother with it.

Although I would like to see a further buff to Salarian's power damage.

[Lucky]

If by "kind" you mean "desperately" then yeah that is how much he needs a buff. But BW hates Salarians so I won't hold my breath.

[tonnactus]

Even worse, Energy Drain only detonates Incenerate on enemies with shields or synthetic ones....

[Chozo_Lord]

It's pretty good at techbursting geth when you equip disruptor ammo.  Otherwise it's outclassed by most classes.

[MrScottBear]

Qui-Gon Glenn wrote...

What's with the wishy-washyness of the thread title?

Kinda?

Decoy is uber-poopoo.

Well, flat out demanding Bioware do something isn't exactly the right way to go about things.  I'd much rather be polite.

[tutzdes]

I kinda like the kit, it's ok for sniping/long range support. For this kind of job decoy is a bit out of place.

For this reason I'd rather see some buff to passives. It would make SI even better and I admit that SI is pretty badass already. One of the strongest if not the strongest non-dlc kit.

[stromguard555]

The Salarian Engineer is still my favorite class. The Decoy is very useful, and the only buff it needs is to upgrade it's threat value for drawing aggro from enemy units. Too many time do you have to make sure to be completely out of sight from all enemies for them to target it rather than you.

The damage evo's are the only way to distract phantoms, and it's worth specing out of fitness just to get the most out of the powers.

[Nissun]

That "fix" to the pets was ridiculous. If I remember correctly, it happen around a time when Firebase White farming was really popular. Decoy only exaggerated the Geth's stupid AI that funneled them into that room and got them distracted.

Pets aren't a game-breaking power, they never were. They deserve to be better. And since decoy's primary function is drawing aggro, that's what should be buffed about it.



Unless they buff it so that its explosion does the same damage as a posessed abomination, or something like that.

[Guglio08]

The problem is that the Salarian Engineer is an uncommon the the Paladin is a rare. It would be bad business to make the SE "good" because then you could do without the Paladin for some time.