295 réponses à ce sujet

[Dendio1]

Honestly, the fact that shepard will not live in a non-destroy ending really makes it hard for me take non-destroy endings seriously on my playthroughs. I've heard great arguments for synthesis and even control, but for me at least..dead shep is a deal breaker.

Also I really dislike it when bioware sets the characters dialogue to give you false hope. At the end of citadel dlc, Ashely says she knows you'll figure out a way to make it out alive. The only way is destroy...

Modifié par Dendio1, 18 mars 2013 - 09:26 .

[Bill Casey]

It's like the whole ending was created specifically to try and justify Shepard's actions in Arrival...


You don't like commiting collateral genocide which we call "sacrifice"?
Well, here's some even worse options...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 18 mars 2013 - 09:25 .

[Nykara]

I don't hate the idea of control. It's only a semi death. That is if you want to take the endings at face value anyhows. I am still not so sure about that.

[Yestare7]

To me , it works perfectly.

All thru-out the three games, Shepard wants to destroy the Reapers.
WHY change your mind at the last minute because an insane AI lies?

1. Control = tim's delusions
2. Synthesis = brat's idiotic plan
3. destroy = what we came here for!!

Destroy Reapers, do hospital time, have a big party!!
It's win/win.



Y

[Ieldra]

Dendio1 wrote...
Honestly, the fact that shepard will not live in a non-destroy ending really makes it hard for me take non-destroy endings seriously on my playthroughs. I've heard great arguments for synthesis and even control, but for me at least..dead shep is a deal breaker.

Also I really dislike it when bioware sets the characters dialogue to give you false hope. At the end of citadel dlc, Ashely says she knows you'll figure out a way to make it out alive. The only way is destroy...

I have two lore-compatible ways to bring Shepard back after Synthesis, so that's a non-issue with me. Shepard will win and he'll eventually reunite with Miranda. The way there may be a little more complicated than "he survives", but that just makes things more interesting.

Control is a little more problematic. There's no reason why the Shepalyst couldn't create a human avatar but it would never be the same. 

Edit:
I recall that in one of my first ending criticisms one year ago, I wrote I considered myself treated unfairly because Shepard can only survive in the only ending I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole, and that I'd be thankful for a small hint that would make a Shepard-survives headcanon plausible. Then, in the EC, Synthesizers got......the scene with Keiji. Thank you, Bioware

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 mars 2013 - 10:08 .

[AlanC9]

I'd be happy if Shepard died in all endings, actually. Any Shep who wouldn't be OK with dying in the moment of final victory should have made a different career choice.

[Ticonderoga117]

Nykara wrote...

I don't hate the idea of control. It's only a semi death. That is if you want to take the endings at face value anyhows. I am still not so sure about that.

No... quite sure Shepard vaproizes and the only thing carried forward is memories.  Quite dead. Funny since in order to control the prong thing isn't needed. Oh well.

[Ieldra]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Nykara wrote...

I don't hate the idea of control. It's only a semi death. That is if you want to take the endings at face value anyhows. I am still not so sure about that.

No... quite sure Shepard vaproizes and the only thing carried forward is memories.  Quite dead. Funny since in order to control the prong thing isn't needed. Oh well.

Not dead. There's continuity of identity. Shepalyst says "The man/woman I once was". Pretty clear to me, rather similar to me saying "the child I once was". Shepard has grown out of his/her human shell to become something greater. Ascended, not dead.

[Fixers0]

AlanC9 wrote...

I'd be happy if Shepard died in all endings, actually. Any Shep who wouldn't be OK with dying in the moment of final victory should have made a different career choice.

Because Shooting a tube and getting killed in the resulting/jumping into a beam of light and getting disintegrated/grabbing two electrified rods and getting disintegrated really is a moment of victory.

[Aurora313]

No - I fully expected Shepard to die. I just wish it was in the arms of the LI after seeing his victory achieved and a smile on his face.

However, as it stands, the current endings contain vast amounts of potential for future plotlines and story arcs.

Modifié par Aurora313, 18 mars 2013 - 10:53 .

[Nykara]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Nykara wrote...

I don't hate the idea of control. It's only a semi death. That is if you want to take the endings at face value anyhows. I am still not so sure about that.

No... quite sure Shepard vaproizes and the only thing carried forward is memories.  Quite dead. Funny since in order to control the prong thing isn't needed. Oh well.

Shepards body dies but her memories and experiences and what not lives on in the reapers. Thought that was pretty obvious

[Ticonderoga117]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Not dead. There's continuity of identity. Shepalyst says "The man/woman I once was". Pretty clear to me, rather similar to me saying "the child I once was". Shepard has grown out of his/her human shell to become something greater. Ascended, not dead.

"Through his death, I was created."

Doesn't get any more plain than that. Shepard died, and this new AI with his memories was created. All because Shepard didn't want to simply give orders to the Catalyst.

[Kataphrut94]

He sort of lives on in Control, but let's not open up that particular can of worms.

In all honestly, no. I figured the writing had been on the wall for Shepard for quite a while, and when Harbinger shot him at the end, all bets were off. While I love Shepard and hate to lose him/her, I've come to terms with the fact that he won't make it out of this alive. There were a couple of moments throughout the game that hinted deep down Shepard secretly wanted to die, if only because of all the pressure he was under.

The fact that he may sort of survive in Destroy doesn't mean much to me because I don't see that choice as being about Shepard. It's about the brutal calculus of war that Garrus talked about, whether you would be willing to sacrifice millions to save billions. we don't find out if Shepard may have lived trough it until after we've made our choice so it feels like more of consolation prize to make up for loosing EDI.

[Ticonderoga117]

Nykara wrote...

Shepards body dies but her memories and experiences and what not lives on in the reapers. Thought that was pretty obvious

And we see how well that's been going on eh? Oh, I'm sure all those other races were giant jerks too who just loved to kill and blend millions of sentient beings!

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Fixers0 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

I'd be happy if Shepard died in all endings, actually. Any Shep who wouldn't be OK with dying in the moment of final victory should have made a different career choice.

Because Shooting a tube and getting killed in the resulting/jumping into a beam of light and getting disintegrated/grabbing two electrified rods and getting disintegrated really is a moment of victory.

Considering all those actions stop the Reaper threat, then yeah.

[o Ventus]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Nykara wrote...

I don't hate the idea of control. It's only a semi death. That is if you want to take the endings at face value anyhows. I am still not so sure about that.

No... quite sure Shepard vaproizes and the only thing carried forward is memories.  Quite dead. Funny since in order to control the prong thing isn't needed. Oh well.

Not dead. There's continuity of identity. Shepalyst says "The man/woman I once was". Pretty clear to me, rather similar to me saying "the child I once was". Shepard has grown out of his/her human shell to become something greater. Ascended, not dead.

"You will die. You will lose everything you have"

[Aurora313]

What do you mean 'hinted'?! He all but outright says it when Thane dies and when talking to Garrus about having sleepless nights. And even when talking to Javik about his love interest.

"Goodnight Thane. You won't be alone long..."

"There's only so much of the death and fighting you can take before..."

"Without that affection, there's only death in my life. That's not enough."

Modifié par Aurora313, 18 mars 2013 - 11:05 .

[Fixers0]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Considering all those actions stop the Reaper threat, then yeah.

Considering, Shepard has no guarantee that performing either action will end the Reaper threat, not Realy.

[Aurora313]

Have to agree with Fixers0 there. Shepard had no way of knowing if the Catalyst was bullish!ting him or not. We all know the results on a meta level because we've the players, but Shepard as a character didn't.

[Ieldra]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Not dead. There's continuity of identity. Shepalyst says "The man/woman I once was". Pretty clear to me, rather similar to me saying "the child I once was". Shepard has grown out of his/her human shell to become something greater. Ascended, not dead.

"Through his death, I was created."

Doesn't get any more plain than that. Shepard died, and this new AI with his memories was created. All because Shepard didn't want to simply give orders to the Catalyst.

Yet again, the Shepalyst says "The man/woman I once was." I think the line between life and death is intentionally blurred here. If you took all of Shepard's thoughts and memories and implanted them in a clone body after destroying the original, wouldn't the result be Shepard? As I see it, it would, for all intents and purposes. The only uncertainty is how a synthetic body will affect things.

As for the original question: no, it isn't a deal breaker. I make the decision for the future of the galaxy. Shepard's death is irrelevant. Also, if I want, I can always create a post-ending scenario where they come back.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 mars 2013 - 11:19 .

[Kataphrut94]

That's the sort of thing you ultimately have to take on faith. If none of those options work and the Catalyst is lying, you might as well just go the Indoctrination Theory route and have every Shepard's story end with a bullet to the brain.

Fact of the matter is that the Catalyst is the only one who knows the score and he doesn't have any real reason to lie to you, so he gets the exposition job.

[AlanC9]

Fixers0 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

I'd be happy if Shepard died in all endings, actually. Any Shep who wouldn't be OK with dying in the moment of final victory should have made a different career choice.

Because Shooting a tube and getting killed in the resulting/jumping into a beam of light and getting disintegrated/grabbing two electrified rods and getting disintegrated really is a moment of victory.

Given the results of those actions... yes, it is. It obviously is.

Or are you only saying that Shepard doesn't actually live to see the victory in anything but high-EMS Destroy? (I'm OK with calling Control Sheps dead even if there's a new being running around with the same memories and values)

Modifié par AlanC9, 18 mars 2013 - 11:24 .

[Aurora313]

The way I interpret it is that Shepard is still the same 'individual', as far as the mind goes, but once he achieves ascension and becomes the new controlling force behind the Reapers, he's become so far divorced from what made him human that he no longer considers himself that same person.

Frankly, I see his situation as similar to Sarah Kerrigan's in Heart of the Swarm. Both transcend their limits, discard their humanity to become god-like beings. The only key difference is: Shepard no longer has a humanoid avatar, where as Kerrigan does. But that is something I can easily see remedied with Reaper nano-tech and cloning. However, I doubt his friends or lover (s) would take him back, not do I believe he'd honestly try to contact them again. To his friends and family, Shepard is dead. Shepalyst seems intent on keeping it that way, to let them mourn and move on with their lives without him anchoring them.

Modifié par Aurora313, 18 mars 2013 - 11:24 .

[Fixers0]

AlanC9 wrote...

Given the results of those actions... yes, it is. It obviously is.

Only if you metagame.

AlanC9 wrote...
Or are you only saying that Shepard doesn't actually live to see the victory in anything but high-EMS Destroy? (I'm OK with calling Control Sheps dead even if there's a new being running around with the same memories and values)

No, not exactly, Shepard doesn't even have the knowledge that whatever choice he makes will end the Reaper threat.

[crimzontearz]

Agreed, I could take control seriously into consideration if Shepard lived on it otherwise all that really matters to me is getting Shepard out alive and to his loved one/crew