294 réponses à ce sujet

[Drewton]

tickle267 wrote...

the endings seemed to be based on how sefless shepard is, in synthesis you die completely but provide the "best" solution for the galaxy.

From the Reapers' point of view.

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

My Shepard didn't pick Destroy because she wanted to live at the expense of others. When I made the decision, I didn't even know it would happen. I simply wanted the Reapers gone. Shepard potentially surviving was a nice bonus though. After all she made a promise to Liara that she would always come back

out of curiosity ..

what made your shepard believe, that she would survive?

- hit by harbinger
- shot in the shoulder my marauder shields
- falling unconscious several times
- nearly bleeding out next to anderson
- still bleeding like hell in an unspecified location somewhere on the citadel
- on top, starchild tells you, that synthetics will die and that shep is partially synthetic as well
- walking into an exploding tube
- witnessing the mother of all energy outputs



the chances that shepard could survive this, are nearly nonexixtant. the fact that shepard beats the odds, is a wonder and not forseeable.

And like many things, IT explains this.

Modifié par Drewton, 18 mars 2013 - 10:50 .

[Yestare7]

Control = Collaboration
Synthesis = Surrender
Destroy = Defiance

[Pcmag1]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

My Shepard didn't pick Destroy because she wanted to live at the expense of others. When I made the decision, I didn't even know it would happen. I simply wanted the Reapers gone. Shepard potentially surviving was a nice bonus though. After all she made a promise to Liara that she would always come back

out of curiosity ..

what made your shepard believe, that she would survive?

- hit by harbinger
- shot in the shoulder my marauder shields
- falling unconscious several times
- nearly bleeding out next to anderson
- still bleeding like hell in an unspecified location somewhere on the citadel
- on top, starchild tells you, that synthetics will die and that shep is partially synthetic as well
- walking into an exploding tube
- witnessing the mother of all energy outputs



the chances that shepard could survive this, are nearly nonexixtant. the fact that shepard beats the odds, is a wonder and not forseeable.

He did survive
- multiple in your face explosions
- being burried by rubbles of Soverign 
- 15petawatt EM pulse
- Fist fight with Vega;)
- Fire fight with human reaper
- Uncountable number of car crashes, ship crashes, building explosions in close vicinity
- death (ME2 begining)

oh and End03_Shepard_Alive_Fem.bik

[Pcmag1]

Yestare7 wrote...

Control = Collaboration
Synthesis = Surrender
Destroy = Defiance

This = true

[hiraeth]

tickle267 wrote...

the endings seemed to be based on how sefless shepard is, in synthesis you die completely but provide the "best" solution for the galaxy. in destroy you can live but you have to sacrifce the geth and EDI which is pretty selfish. in control you live (i think) but are isolated and are there to protect, so that's a bit of both.

How is destroy a selfish choice? At the time you're making the choice, you think Shepard will die ("even you are partly synthetic"). I definitely expected Shepard to die when I chose destroy. I also strongly disagree that synthesis (i.e., imposing genetic modifications on the entire galaxy) is a good, much less the "best," choice for two huge reasons: (a) the idea of fudamentally changing individuality and diversity without anyone's permission but the Catalyst and my own, and ( I'm under the illusion that it's going to work *only* because a reaper manifestation tells me that the galaxy is now "ready" for it (even though similar solutions in the past haven't worked...and he doesn't explain how he determined that the galaxy was ready, or how he knows that it won't fail this time). I can understand why the Catalyst would have presented synthesis as the best solution, but I completely disagree.

[hiraeth]

tickle267 wrote...

fair points, though i was really speaking from an external point of view (sorry that i didn't make that clear)

no worries--i meant to add a sidenote that i wasn't clear if you were speaking for yourself or from an external POV, but i forgot. thanks for clarifying!

[ConanTheLeader]

Dendio1 wrote...

Also I really dislike it when bioware sets the characters dialogue to give you false hope. At the end of citadel dlc, Ashely says she knows you'll figure out a way to make it out alive. The only way is destroy...

I think Bioware might be hinting at canonising an ending when that happened.

[AlexMBrennan]

OP: Only if you are very very shallow, and personally I think that kind of attitude is incompatible with Shepard's history (if you care about your life above all else then you would not join the military)

[Dr_Extrem]

Pcmag1 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

My Shepard didn't pick Destroy because she wanted to live at the expense of others. When I made the decision, I didn't even know it would happen. I simply wanted the Reapers gone. Shepard potentially surviving was a nice bonus though. After all she made a promise to Liara that she would always come back

out of curiosity ..

what made your shepard believe, that she would survive?

- hit by harbinger
- shot in the shoulder my marauder shields
- falling unconscious several times
- nearly bleeding out next to anderson
- still bleeding like hell in an unspecified location somewhere on the citadel
- on top, starchild tells you, that synthetics will die and that shep is partially synthetic as well
- walking into an exploding tube
- witnessing the mother of all energy outputs



the chances that shepard could survive this, are nearly nonexixtant. the fact that shepard beats the odds, is a wonder and not forseeable.

He did survive
- multiple in your face explosions
- being burried by rubbles of Soverign 
- 15petawatt EM pulse
- Fist fight with Vega;)
- Fire fight with human reaper
- Uncountable number of car crashes, ship crashes, building explosions in close vicinity
- death (ME2 begining)

oh and End03_Shepard_Alive_Fem.bik

thats not even my point ... it is clear, that shepard survives.


but shepard has no reason to believe, that it will happen - it just happens and shepard has luck.



@ IT-comment:

IT was nice but sadly, it provides no ending - a bad ending, is better than no ending at all. since bioware made it clear, that me3 is finished and that nothing more will come, IT is basically dead. the theory is disproven by biowares "no new content" policy.

btw. IT gives mass effect 3 too much credit.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 18 mars 2013 - 11:37 .

[Kabraxal]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

OP: Only if you are very very shallow, and personally I think that kind of attitude is incompatible with Shepard's history (if you care about your life above all else then you would not join the military)

You do realise many in the military join for better career and educational opportunities more than to serve their country or protect others... right?  Not slighting them, valid reason to join and you still have to put in the work... but not everyone joins the miltary for selfless reasons.

[CaIIisto]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

but shepard has no reason to believe, that it will happen - it just happens and shepard has luck.

Agree - the way the shooting the tube scene plays out in the destroy ending, the impression I was always left with was that Shepard was resigned to dying by taking that course of action. Survival was a bonus, albeit an unforeseeable one.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Instead of the way it ended with the starchild......

Control: Shepard chooses Control. A keeper behind Shepard fires a dart into Shepard's neck immobilizing him. Shepard goes unconscious temporarily, then becomes conscious, but is paralyzed but can feel everything. The music "An End Once And For All" begins to play. He is being transported by two keepers toward a conveyor belt in a line with other bodies feeding a giant blender. The other victims are pleading for their lives, but the keepers do not hear, nor do they care. When enough bodies are liquified a piston comes down and forces the liquid through tubes to feed a structure that Shepard has seen before on the Collector Base: a Human Reaper. The keepers put Shepard on the conveyor belt and Shepard goes over the edge with the next batch of screaming victims. The blades start turning.... a red smear goes across the television screen, then disappears in a flash of blue light. Then it goes through the scene as we see in the EC. None of this disintegration stuff. Let's see what really happened.

Synthesis: A similar scene to above except instead Shepard is transported to a place where he is put on a table and disintegrated. None of this running and diving crap.

Destroy: Says "Burn you sons of b******!" Hits a button on the panel with his fist. Turns and shoots three keepers. Contacts the Normandy for a pickup -- this is successful only in high EMS.

[ToaOrka]

The Geth and EDI all made their choices and grew as
people knowing with full intention that their deaths were
always a valid outcome. I think Bioware did a great job
foreshadowing this in your conversations with Garrus.
The ruthless calculus of war and whatnot. Killing one
million (the Geth and EDI, in this case) so that two
million (the organics) can survive.

Paragon Shepard would probably argue against this,
but in light of Synthesis and Control in comparison
to Destroy, Garrus's Black/White/Grey quote hits home
even harder - there is no distinct "good guy" or "bad
guy" thing to do here.

Destroy could be renegade by choosing the simplest
solution, or paragon by doing what they had set on doing
from the first game, as well as not "letting fear compromise
who they are" - fear of loosing the Geth and EDI, fear of new
synthetics overthrowing organics later.

Control could be renegade by caving into the Illusive Man's
ideals of control and becoming the enemy, or paragon by
personally ensuring that it's impossible for the Reapers to
harm organics ever again.

Synthesis could be renegade by believing on face-value the
words of a confessed reaper created AI, as well as making
a huge choice for the entire galaxy on the whim of a battle-
worn soldier, or paragon by attempting to ensue galactic peace
and conformity.

It all depends on your viewpoints.

As for Shepard's death, I want to say that his or her death
shouldn't be the only thing affecting your choice here, but you
have kinda been building this character up (and probably
in your own image) for three games, so it's natural to want to
preserve him/her and try to keep them alive.

[BearlyHere]

ToaOrka wrote...

As for Shepard's death, I want to say that his or her death
shouldn't be the only thing affecting your choice here, but you
have kinda been building this character up (and probably
in your own image) for three games, so it's natural to want to
preserve him/her and try to keep them alive.

This is what I believe Bioware forgot. The devs seem to have favorite characters, and even NPCs. Along the way, even though they acknowledge that the players are writing the story too, they forgot that we have just as much invested in our versions of Shepard as they do in Liarra, Joker, Garrus, etc.

It reminds me of a really bad DM whose tabletop game I played in years ago. The players kept getting screwed over, the DM and his wife would act out scenarios with our characters when we weren't around, sometimes resulting in the deaths of the characters, all for the sake of a book he was writing. It turned out all his NPCs were his old characters, and the players' characters were merely fodder to move his story along. That's why it was so easy for Bioware to decide to sacrifice Shepard, just as long as none of their characters had to die.

[Twilight_Princess]

ToaOrka wrote...

 I think Bioware did a great job
foreshadowing this in your conversations with Garrus.
The ruthless calculus of war and whatnot. Killing one
million (the Geth and EDI, in this case) so that two
million (the organics) can survive.

Paragon Shepard would probably argue against this,
but in light of Synthesis and Control in comparison
to Destroy, Garrus's Black/White/Grey quote hits home
even harder - there is no distinct "good guy" or "bad
guy" thing to do here.

.

I recently did a second full playthrough and I realized that ,yes, garrus was foreshadowing the destroy choice in several of his conversations.  It was very clever I thought. Now I play a paragon so it kind of stung watching these conversations a second time with the knowledge that I was going to make her pick destroy at the end.  It was hard to watch my shep tell Garrus that they can save everyone and that it didn’t have to come down to ruthless calculus because she believed it and garrus wanted to believe it as well and I knew that belief was going to be shattered to pieces later. I’m sure I could have picked the renegade replies just to make that final choice easier but that wasn’t the type of shepard she was.  I like to think those conversations ran through her head during the long walk to the tube.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 19 mars 2013 - 02:11 .

[Allison_Lightning]

If Shepard died in Destroy only and survived in the other two- it'd still be Destroy. It wasn't just about the Geth and EDI or the synthetics who would exist one day. Shepard had a chance to end the Reaper threat forever rather than at best strip free will and self determination from the galaxy and at worst- give the Reapers everything they want.

But it wasn't just our choice, just our chance. The Protheans and countless races before them fought to destroy the Reapers once and for all, each leaving something behind, sacrificing their last moments to finally stop the cycle. The Reapers had to be destroyed to honour that, to make their sacrifices and work over countless cycles matter. It wasn't up to Shepard to gamble all that on the word of a Reaper/The Catalyst- and prehaps doom other cycles forever more. This counted to me and especially so after finding the Thessia VI and talking to it.

[Bill Casey]

Why do reaper synthesizers even exist?
Why is this a thing?

Modifié par Bill Casey, 19 mars 2013 - 03:24 .

[GiarcYekrub]

HolyAvenger wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

For you, not for me. Also, with billions dead including  three of his closest friends and his mentor Shepard's ending would not be "happy" even if he survived and got a reunion scene

Well duh, we're just sharing opinions here. No one is right or wrong, per se.

For me, Shepard alive and well, living out in the post-Reaper universe with their LI would have been happy. Any happier and we'd be play Mass Effect: The Romcom.

would you be opposed to the OPTION for him to survive triggered by an earlier dialogue choice?

I think it would be quite cheesy if he lived without some kind of very high personal cost, frankly. Maybe a Virmire-style choice between Shepard and his/her LI?

Yeah I agree. Personally I like it being ambigous and left upto the player to decide the ending. I do wonder what people on here think to classic film endings like The Italian Job, Thelma and Louise, or modern films like Inception.

[cerberus1701]

Thelma and Louise and Inception were ambiguous?

MAYBE you can argue Inception....but Thelma and Louise?

[George Costanza]

Shepard living and dying isn't a big factor in my decision, and I kinda liked the idea of Shepard heroically sacrificing himself to defeat the Reapers - which I assumed would be how the endings would play out before I played them.

In reality, tragically, I pick Destroy now less because of reasons like that, and more because the other endings are so ****ing stupid that it seems like least awful one.

[GiarcYekrub]

cerberus1701 wrote...

Thelma and Louise and Inception were ambiguous?

MAYBE you can argue Inception....but Thelma and Louise?

I've heard many arguments that they land in water, or land on something, like the simpsons episode made fun of
oh yes and Inception can be argued that it cut away before it toppled over

Modifié par GiarcYekrub, 19 mars 2013 - 02:49 .

[CronoDragoon]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

OP: Only if you are very very shallow, and personally I think that kind of attitude is incompatible with Shepard's history (if you care about your life above all else then you would not join the military)

Or if you take the perspective that it's just a game and that none of your decisions are actually affecting anything. Then hey, go for whatever.

[GiarcYekrub]

George Costanza wrote...

Shepard living and dying isn't a big factor in my decision, and I kinda liked the idea of Shepard heroically sacrificing himself to defeat the Reapers - which I assumed would be how the endings would play out before I played them.

In reality, tragically, I pick Destroy now less because of reasons like that, and more because the other endings are so ****ing stupid that it seems like least awful one.

I do find it interesting that Destroyers in general despise the all the other endings, as a Synthersiser I've a strong dislike to to destroy but I wouldn't want it changing into something more palletable for myself. Control I'm indifferent about its just not something that I would like to do.