295 réponses à ce sujet

[CaIIisto]

Shepard living or dying in destroy was largely irrelevant to me. I went to the Citadel to destroy the Reapers. That's what I did.

Neither Control or Synthesis were ever options for me.

[Ticonderoga117]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Yet again, the Shepalyst says "The man/woman I once was." I think the line between life and death is intentionally blurred here. If you took all of Shepard's thoughts and memories and implanted them in a clone body after destroying the original, wouldn't the result be Shepard? As I see it, it would, for all intents and purposes. The only uncertainty is how a synthetic body will affect things.

Yet there's a distinction that Shepard died. These statements are rather contradictory. Either you die, or you get a new body. The narrative seems to take both stances.

Now, what you pose is a tricky question; would it be actually you? Personally, I don't know and don't care to take a stance in life until we actually can do such a thing if ever. However, if I had too choose in the univers of ME, I would say no. It'll be like what happens to an AI and it's blue box. Sure, it has all the data from the last one, but since it's not actually experiancing those, well, experiances and "growing", it's not the same.

[CaptainCommander]

Yestare7 wrote...

To me , it works perfectly.

All thru-out the three games, Shepard wants to destroy the Reapers.
WHY change your mind at the last minute because an insane AI lies?

1. Control = tim's delusions
2. Synthesis = brat's idiotic plan
3. destroy = what we came here for!!

Destroy Reapers, do hospital time, have a big party!!
It's win/win.



Y

Yeah Synthesis was always what the Reapers wanted! Its what indoctrinated Saren was! Synthesis  to me is like spitting on everyone that died in the games graves! Control just creates a problem down the line. Destroy is what Shepard has been doing since ME1. Even in the beginning of ME3, Shepard tells TIM to stuff it with Control!

[Aurora313]

It also depends on Shepard's own perspective. Has the Catalyst really taken on Shepard's image and morality, or has Shepard replaced the Catalyst and is trying to divorce himself from his humanity?

[Yestare7]

CaptainCommander wrote...

Yestare7 wrote...

To me , it works perfectly.

All thru-out the three games, Shepard wants to destroy the Reapers.
WHY change your mind at the last minute because an insane AI lies?

1. Control = tim's delusions
2. Synthesis = brat's idiotic plan
3. destroy = what we came here for!!

Destroy Reapers, do hospital time, have a big party!!
It's win/win.



Y

Yeah Synthesis was always what the Reapers wanted! Its what indoctrinated Saren was! Synthesis  to me is like spitting on everyone that died in the games graves! Control just creates a problem down the line. Destroy is what Shepard has been doing since ME1. Even in the beginning of ME3, Shepard tells TIM to stuff it with Control!

Tis heart-warming to see sanity on these boards!


Y

[Xilizhra]

Aurora313 wrote...

It also depends on Shepard's own perspective. Has the Catalyst really taken on Shepard's image and morality, or has Shepard replaced the Catalyst and is trying to divorce himself from his humanity?

I interpreted it as the Shepard-Catalyst still getting used to its new state, and trying to figure out what it truly is; it knows its purpose, but not necessarily anything else at the moment.

[Sejborg]

True. The single life of Shepard weighs more than all the geth's combined.

[Aurora313]

Xilizhra wrote...

Aurora313 wrote...

It also depends on Shepard's own perspective. Has the Catalyst really taken on Shepard's image and morality, or has Shepard replaced the Catalyst and is trying to divorce himself from his humanity?

I interpreted it as the Shepard-Catalyst still getting used to its new state, and trying to figure out what it truly is; it knows its purpose, but not necessarily anything else at the moment.

Yes - those are my thoughts exactly. And flowing what I said, Shepalyst has divorced itself from humanity and knows its new purpose now, but that doesn't automatically mean it truly understands itself yet.

As human beings, we are still learning what kind of people we are when and trying on personalities like different outfits while maturing. Even in adulthood, we still don't know how we'd react in some situations without actually experiencing the conditions first hand. It kind of makes a little sense if you apply that same line of thinking  to Shepalyst upon it's creation and during the monologue at the end.

Modifié par Aurora313, 18 mars 2013 - 12:44 .

[wright1978]

I don't think the way they tied Shep's fate to the ending choice rather than EMS was particularly wise. Thankfully there is one variant where he/she can live(even if they provided zero clarification/closure for this ending in EC) as railroading the protaganist's fate is completely unacceptable to me.

Not really sure why Shep had to die in Synthesis beyond the message that he/she becomes Space Jesus and has to die to inseminate everyone.

Control, Shep dies but he/she births a progeny in Shepalyst which makes a sort of sense if not an appealing one to me.

Destroy is the only ending that i find at all palatable and Shep living is just the cherry on top of the cake as far as i'm concerned.

[Helios969]

No. If Shepard survived the other two choices and died in destroy I'd still shot the damn tube. To me it was the only logically consistent way to resolve the story. Through 3 entire games Shepard's mission centered on destroying the Reapers...to suggest he/she had a sudden change of heart (and would actually believe the AI constructs circular logic) violates suspension of disbelief...at least it does mine.

[Ieldra]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Yet again, the Shepalyst says "The man/woman I once was." I think the line between life and death is intentionally blurred here. If you took all of Shepard's thoughts and memories and implanted them in a clone body after destroying the original, wouldn't the result be Shepard? As I see it, it would, for all intents and purposes. The only uncertainty is how a synthetic body will affect things.

Yet there's a distinction that Shepard died. These statements are rather contradictory. Either you die, or you get a new body. The narrative seems to take both stances.

Now, what you pose is a tricky question; would it be actually you? Personally, I don't know and don't care to take a stance in life until we actually can do such a thing if ever. However, if I had too choose in the univers of ME, I would say no. It'll be like what happens to an AI and it's blue box. Sure, it has all the data from the last one, but since it's not actually experiancing those, well, experiances and "growing", it's not the same.

Memory is identity. If you recall something, you recall experiencing it, even if on the chemical level it's just data. I think the MEU lore doesn't take a stance on this but calls on us to find our own. The nature of identity is actually an important theme of the trilogy. The Reapers' nature as told by Legion, the geth's software identities, resurrected Shepard...and now Control!Shepard. The story doesn't answer the question "What is identity?" - and I appreciate that it doesn't.    

[crimzontearz]

also...if Shepard died in all endings I would still shoot the damn tube

Why?

Better safe than goddamn sorry

[darkway1]

Bioware should just create a happy ending option.......everyone can control,synthesis,destroy,die or LIVE..........everyone is then happy,everyone gets what they want,no more drama,Mass3 gets transformed into a great game that makes EVERYONE happy............I really don't see what the problem is.........happy ending mean's what????..........Bioware listened to the fans.......that's a good thing...win,win,win.

[Steelcan]

Sejborg wrote...

True. The single life of Shepard weighs more than all the geth's combined.

. Obviously.  

[d-boy15]

great...

so, now "my ending is better than your" is change to "my head-canon is better than your"

and really? you pro-synthesis guys think your ending treated unfair? what a joke, it's like you said Liara
got less screen time than other romance option.

Modifié par d-boy15, 18 mars 2013 - 12:59 .

[JosieFrances]

Yestare7 wrote...

To me , it works perfectly.

All thru-out the three games, Shepard wants to destroy the Reapers.
WHY change your mind at the last minute because an insane AI lies?

1. Control = tim's delusions
2. Synthesis = brat's idiotic plan
3. destroy = what we came here for!!

Destroy Reapers, do hospital time, have a big party!!
It's win/win.



Y

Agree!

[MattFini]

Not really.

I can't choose anything other than Destroy because the other scenarios do not work for me, and I cannot justify them after everything Shepard has gone through throughout the trilogy.

Shepard surviving Destroy is just the icing on the cake. There's still a horrible lack of closure but at least he/she lives.

[Impulse and Compulse]

All of the endings suck. Shepard living is the only thing Destroy has going for it.

[Enhanced]

For me, Destroy is a deal breaker because the chaos will return or Leviathans enthrall the galaxy again to try to prevent it from returning.

[CaIIisto]

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

Shepard living is the only thing Destroy has going for it.

You mean besides actually getting rid of the Reapers.....

[Dr_Extrem]

Enhanced wrote...

For me, Destroy is a deal breaker because the chaos will return or Leviathans enthrall the galaxy again to try to prevent it from returning.

not if we let them rot in their system. it needs both relays to make a connection to their system.

by the time the levis are back, we hammer them with unmaned drones and remote controled ships. in addition, we destroy every sphere we find. without the spheres, we out of their reach.

[GiarcYekrub]

Well here's how I resurect Shepard:

Control - Shepard still exists in non corporeal form, just needs a synthtic Platform to transfer to interact with people

Synthsis - Shepard essence is intertwined with the building blocks of the galaxy, if it can be analysed then it can be reconstucted and in a post synthsis universe inserted into a clone body

Modifié par GiarcYekrub, 18 mars 2013 - 01:13 .

[Sanunes]

Personally saying Shepard lives at the end of the high EMS destroy ending is pure head cannon, so feel free to make one for your choice of ending as well. The reason why I come to this conclusion is that Shepard could be just as easily taking their last breath on Earth so if you want to say Shepard lived there you can say Shepard figures a way for them to create a "New Shepard" with a Control or Synthesis ending with using the same basic idea used in Mass Effect 2.

[Ticonderoga117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Memory is identity. If you recall something, you recall experiencing it, even if on the chemical level it's just data. I think the MEU lore doesn't take a stance on this but calls on us to find our own. The nature of identity is actually an important theme of the trilogy. The Reapers' nature as told by Legion, the geth's software identities, resurrected Shepard...and now Control!Shepard. The story doesn't answer the question "What is identity?" - and I appreciate that it doesn't.    

Not neccesarily. Imagine that during event A, you do something. Something that either enforces your character or changes it. Now, you might forget event A, but that change is still you.

I think this can be best left elsewhere though.

[Auld Wulf]

@OP

The problem is is that we can't prove it's not the clone that survived. The clone was wearing N7 armour, and Shepard most likely isn't, so it's even more likely that the clone survives in Destroy.