294 réponses à ce sujet

[CaIIisto]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Let's put it this way. BW promised a whole array of endings. Couldn't... shouldn't one of those endings be happy? 

The "shape your own story" aspect of ME has always been somewhat illusory given that no matter what choices you made, the canon narrative often over-rode your choices anyway. The one time where this wouldn't have been an issue was at the end of the game/trilogy when there's no canon to worry about. Sadly, instead of more freedom, you got even less.

[crimzontearz]

Robosexual wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

-Snip-
 
Preston is the lead designer

So someone whose not in the know said Shepard lives, but not survives, months before they clarify that it could also be his last breath?

So no new information in other words.

he asked Preston, Preston says he lives, Preston is the lead designer. Another comment from Brenon states Casey and Preston both pushed for a non sacrifical ending. The whole speculation BS started because, as per Bioware's own data, the Destroy ending is wildly more popular, flat out public confirmation of Shepard's survival in destroy would have killed the other two endings and probably Mac's ego (not that I care about either)

[HolyAvenger]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Wow. Are you a troll or a flamer or something?

You'd be a really good lawyer. 

Do you know what interspersed means? You're post above made it seem like it you saw the game as grimdark for 90% of the game with the other elements making up just 10%. 

Neither. I'm an ME fan with a particular view on the games that seems to be unpopular with a certain section of the fandom, though.

I wouldn't say 90-10. I would say 60-40 or 70-30. You don't have to agree with my take on the game, of course.

[Kais Endac]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Kais Endac wrote...


That is only your interpretation and not what others may take away from the game

Like I've said multiple times throughout this thread, of course! We're only sharing opinions here. I am simply stating why I personally do not like the concept of a happy ending, and did not want one from BioWare in the game.

I'm not trying to antagonize you, but  it sometimes sounds more like its a fact than an opinion when you have argued your point. 

Edit: yea I didn't really phrase that right, I can't really explain it that well. Anyway you do make a good case as to why ME3 shouldn't have a happy ending and I know that alot of people agree with you. 

Modifié par Kais Endac, 18 mars 2013 - 04:15 .

[crimzontearz]

so people wanted a happier ending as an OPTION...MANY were willing to pay for it...but Bioware should not because......?

Let me stress...AS AN OPTION




This whole thing is such BS

[o Ventus]

Bester76 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Let's put it this way. BW promised a whole array of endings. Couldn't... shouldn't one of those endings be happy? 

The "shape your own story" aspect of ME has always been somewhat illusory given that no matter what choices you made, the canon narrative often over-rode your choices anyway. The one time where this wouldn't have been an issue was at the end of the game/trilogy when there's no canon to worry about. Sadly, instead of more freedom, you got even less.

"Shape your own story" was never promised. That would be hell to write as a videogame.

What WAS promised, however, is a number of scenarios in which the player is free to mold the experience to their liking (within the alloted parameters, of course). The game(s) offers plenty of this.

[Reap_ii]

o Ventus wrote...

Reap_ii wrote...

its called drawing a conclusion.  its my conclusion, and certainly not retarded.

Yeah, it's drawing the aimplest possible conclusion from literally zero information. Kind of stupid.

i have a "special needs" son, and i actually know what "retarded" looks like.  you probably do also, as you face it in the mirror.

I wish I were as badass as you.

its a conclusion drawn from information received from Bioware, and information verified by 2 out of 3 endings, where he, get this.....died. i expected this. its certainly not stupid. you have some antisocial problems. if your daddy hurt you im sorry, but remember, its not my fault, or anyone else's here, that you choose to be rude to without provocation. you should change your attitude.

Modifié par Reap_ii, 18 mars 2013 - 04:15 .

[Kitsumichi]

nrobbiec wrote...

Destroy is the only ending that feels triumphant, control is creepy and synthesis is just weird. And yeah, Shepard surviving plays a part in that. Watching Kaidan lower the plaque was a lot more powerful than putting it on the wall and Hackett's speech about rebuilding everything it's really the only ending with hope as I see it.

Agree, I can't say it with better words.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Reap_ii wrote...

i always expected him to die for good in ME3. ive kept up with the series since the beginning and they have said it will end with a trilogy, and that it will also end Shepard's story. anyone familiar with the game from its inception should be aware of this. however, even many of those aware of this don't trust this because they simply don't trust Bioware, and justifiably so. him dying makes perfect sense to me.

It's subjective for everyone. I'm not upset with the fact Shepard dies, or that there's a downer ending.

I'm upset because there's nothing but a downer ending.

Why can't we have a destroy ending that has a synthesis level of uplifting (I hate that ending, but it was intentionally made to be uplifting) with Shepard surviving? 

In other words, why can't Destroyers get more closure with Shepard like the Controllers and Synthesists? Yeah he's dead in those... endings. But they get closure.

We're left with Shepard buried under a pile of rubble in some who-knows-where location with a short breath scene. No closure. I hate the endings as they stand. I hate the themes, the broken narrative, and yes, the downer feel. But I'd be perfectly fine at this point if they showed Shepard alive in a hospital bed with Miranda next to him. 

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 18 mars 2013 - 04:19 .

[HolyAvenger]

Kais Endac wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Kais Endac wrote...


That is only your interpretation and not what others may take away from the game

Like I've said multiple times throughout this thread, of course! We're only sharing opinions here. I am simply stating why I personally do not like the concept of a happy ending, and did not want one from BioWare in the game.

I'm not trying to antagonize you, but  it sometimes sounds more like its a fact than an opinion when you have argued your point.

The post you replied to specifically had the words "for mine" in it. I'm not sure what else I can do denote these are my subjective opinions (as they cannot BE anything else, especially not factual. We are dealing with interpretations after all).

[o Ventus]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Contrasted against the falls of Earth, Palaven, Thessia etc., I think it is.

You must have forgotten the part where krogan reinforcements  helped the turians to gradually push the Reapers back on Palaven. Or the entire finals segment where the Reapers kind of leave Earth and never come back (or die).

[Clayless]

crimzontearz wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

-Snip-
 
Preston is the lead designer

So someone whose not in the know said Shepard lives, but not survives, months before they clarify that it could also be his last breath?

So no new information in other words.

he asked Preston, Preston says he lives, Preston is the lead designer. Another comment from Brenon states Casey and Preston both pushed for a non sacrifical ending. The whole speculation BS started because, as per Bioware's own data, the Destroy ending is wildly more popular, flat out public confirmation of Shepard's survival in destroy would have killed the other two endings and probably Mac's ego (not that I care about either)

Source for data?

And there's no point talking about made up theories or things you don't care about, so I wont comment on that.

[THEE_DEATHMASTER]

One thing I'm pondering is if the next game would take place in another galaxy or sometime in the past just to avoid the issue with everyone having or not having green eyes.

[Reap_ii]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Reap_ii wrote...

i always expected him to die for good in ME3. ive kept up with the series since the beginning and they have said it will end with a trilogy, and that it will also end Shepard's story. anyone familiar with the game from its inception should be aware of this. however, even many of those aware of this don't trust this because they simply don't trust Bioware, and justifiably so. him dying makes perfect sense to me.

It's subjective for everyone. I'm not upset with the fact Shepard dies, or that there's a downer ending.

I'm upset because there's nothing but a downer ending.

Why can't we have a destroy ending that has a synthesis level of uplifting (I hate that ending, but it was intentionally made to be uplifting) with Shepard surviving? 

 

i found the high EMS destroy ending to be the least downer ending, but yes, non of them are happy endings.  im okay with that though.  i think each ending had to have some sacrifice.  control/synthesis shep dies, destroy geth/edi die.   i also understand many people not being okay with all of that.  i would have been happier to have had a happy ending as well.  and im certainly not defending Bioware's endings.   im just not surprised by what happened based on past information.

[crimzontearz]

Robosexual wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

-Snip-
 
Preston is the lead designer

So someone whose not in the know said Shepard lives, but not survives, months before they clarify that it could also be his last breath?

So no new information in other words.

he asked Preston, Preston says he lives, Preston is the lead designer. Another comment from Brenon states Casey and Preston both pushed for a non sacrifical ending. The whole speculation BS started because, as per Bioware's own data, the Destroy ending is wildly more popular, flat out public confirmation of Shepard's survival in destroy would have killed the other two endings and probably Mac's ego (not that I care about either)

Source for data?

And there's no point talking about made up theories or things you don't care about, so I wont comment on that.

Bioware published their telemetry or Jessica commented on such


 
But if you want to believe your Shepard died at the end of high EMS destroy go ahead, you will not find ne saying you are wrong, you were canonically given that freedom and permission to make that decision for Bioware

[HolyAvenger]

o Ventus wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Contrasted against the falls of Earth, Palaven, Thessia etc., I think it is.

You must have forgotten the part where krogan reinforcements  helped the turians to gradually push the Reapers back on Palaven. Or the entire finals segment where the Reapers kind of leave Earth and never come back (or die).

The Miracle of Palaven does nothing to change an eventual Reaper victory there, for mine. The whole tone of the ending is that the Reapers must be beaten at Earth for the other homeworlds to stand a chance.

And of course, if you win at Earth, the Reapers retreat. But until that point Earth is basically under Reaper control and they're huskifying most of the population.

I understand if you don't think these are relatively dark parts of the game. For me they are.

[o Ventus]

Reap_ii wrote...

its a conclusion drawn from information received from Bioware, and information verified by 2 out of 3 endings, where he, get this.....died.

It's a conclusion made from no base whatsoever. You took 2 entirely different pieces of information and came to an unrelated conclusion. "Ending Shepard's story" does not mean "will die".

you have some antisocial problems. if your daddy hurt you im sorry, but remember, its not my fault, or anyone else's here, that you choose to be rude to without provocation. you should change your attitude.

You don't know a f**king thing about me. You can drop the armchair psychologist act and the personal jabs.

Modifié par o Ventus, 18 mars 2013 - 04:21 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

If Shepard survived in all of them it wouldn't make me pick Synthesis or Control. I don't even like Destroy, it's just the lesser of three crap, nonsensical endings. Not because Shepard lives, but because Destroy even slightly resembles a minute echo of what my Shepard would do.

[Reap_ii]

o Ventus wrote...

Reap_ii wrote...

its a conclusion drawn from information received from Bioware, and information verified by 2 out of 3 endings, where he, get this.....died.

It's a conclusion made from no base whatsoever. You took 2 entirely different pieces of information and came to an unrelated conclusion. "Ending Shepard's story" does not mean "will die".

you have some antisocial problems. if your daddy hurt you im sorry, but remember, its not my fault, or anyone else's here, that you choose to be rude to without provocation. you should change your attitude.

You don know a f**king thing about me. You can drop the armchair psychologist act and the personal jabs.

so you can give it, but you cant take it?    ok kid, ill let you off the hook since you asked so nicely.  have a nice day. 

[Kais Endac]

HolyAvenger wrote...

The post you replied to specifically had the words "for mine" in it. I'm not sure what else I can do denote these are my subjective opinions (as they cannot BE anything else, especially not factual. We are dealing with interpretations after all).

Just ignore my last post(s) I didn't read it fully and I think my arguements are more out of trying to defend something that is not being attacked as you have repeatedly stated that it is just your opinion.

I'm sorry I am really not trying to annoy/antaganise you .

Modifié par Kais Endac, 18 mars 2013 - 04:29 .

[o Ventus]

HolyAvenger wrote...

The Miracle of Palaven does nothing to change an eventual Reaper victory there, for mine. The whole tone of the ending is that the Reapers must be beaten at Earth for the other homeworlds to stand a chance.

And of course, if you win at Earth, the Reapers retreat. But until that point Earth is basically under Reaper control and they're huskifying most of the population.

I understand if you don't think these are relatively dark parts of the game. For me they are.

I'm not talking about the miracle at Palaven. Immediately following Tuchanka you hear reports how krogan ground forces are helping to retake lost turian ground. The miracle at Palaven is different. The Reapers never even win on Palaven. It's a lopsided fight at first, but the turians and krogan eventually take back lost land, and the Reapers slowly begin to retake the advantage. There's no definitive end.

Theres no reason at all given for why the fight must be won at Earth. The Reapers, for no apparent reason, decided that the incredibly inefficient task of hauling the Citadel to Earth was the best course of action, when Thessia is also under Reaper control and much closer.

[darkway1]

Bioware can redeem themselves by simply making an happy option.........why wouldn't they want to make their product even better.???

[Dr. Megaverse]

This would have been ok with me for Shep not making it...

I'd really prefer this was how things had gone...

Modifié par Dr. Megaverse, 18 mars 2013 - 04:28 .

[o Ventus]

Reap_ii wrote...
so you can give it, but you cant take it?    ok kid, ill let you off the hook since you asked so nicely.  have a nice day. 

You'll have to point me to where I personally attacked you. I won't blame you if you can't find it.

[CaIIisto]

o Ventus wrote...

"Shape your own story" was never promised. That would be hell to write as a videogame.

What WAS promised, however, is a number of scenarios in which the player is free to mold the experience to their liking (within the alloted parameters, of course). The game(s) offers plenty of this.

"Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make COMPLETELY SHAPE your EXPERIENCE and OUTCOME."

Whilst I agree that being able to totally shape the entire story is unrealistic, hence the canon narrative often over-riding your decisions, the ending, or the outcome, was specifically flouted as something that could be COMPLETELY determined by the player. It isn't. I wanted to question Starbrat's circular logic, but nope, not possible.  When the Catalyst acknowledges that its solution will no longer work, and that it needs you to effect the change, you have it over a barrel. Instead of exploring that, you surrender to its faulty logic.