418 réponses à ce sujet

[Killmonger]

Thanks again [ongoing]

Well yes...
The 2da lines were correct (Simply renumbered to fit my 2da)
(So, I too have gone back to basics)
None of my haks are now involved
I launched the cep24starter mod with E2 saved above the cep24 tophak
Without using any E2 content the test module launched correctly
So I created a nice flat area and placed the castle ruins within it and placed my start point nearby
From the toolset I launched the mod (which had been saved prior to launch) and I crashed
I have never had this kind of resistance from the game before so now I'm perplexed...

Fyi I remain eager for the E2 content because it fits my milieu very well

[Rolo Kipp]

<writes it in...>

Ok, officially on my list to troubleshoot tomorrow morning at HQ.
Edit: I'm going to assume it's a model issue and not a CEP issue. One of the first things I'll try is simply turning off all shadows.

I, too, like the looks and possibilities here :-)

I have in mind a vague idea of a tileset expansion with some purposely flat areas with new/ruined foundation placeables, building in progress placeables and complete new/old/decaying building placeables... Use separate pwks... Dynamic build spots for player housing.

<...in ink>

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 19 avril 2013 - 11:53 .

[Killmonger]

I understand, and will await your learned verdict

As for the other idea, dynamic pwk could be cool too, also in reverse as a structure might be built which at first is passable but becomes progressively impermeable. A timed rescue quest?

Also:
Tidal surges and magical mazes....
Can pwk's be animated?

Modifié par Killmonger, 20 avril 2013 - 12:05 .

[Randomdays]

Just got home and caught up on the thread. I loaded up the mod I was working on and put the castle ruin and the starting point on a map, saved and ran the mod fine with no crash.

All meshes were inported into gmax using .obj files. A lot of the E2 meshes are actually in 2 parts, each with its own texture. I think all the E3 meshes are single imports. I had no issues importing or exporting out as a mdl with pwk. Only changes made to the meshes were removing some door vertices before import with Blender, and rotating the model 90 degrees and enlarging to a size that fit NWN with gmax. I've test most, but not all, the models from both E2 and E3 in game with no errors. The only files in the hak should be the mdls, pwks, tgas for the models and the one placeables.2da.

I started with the standard placeables.3da from CEP 2.4 and added to it. Other things were added as well from things like the CCCs ,but if you copied and pasted just the E2 and E3 content that shouldn't be an issue.

The only thing that might be an issue that I can think of is that when I started working on adding to the 2da, I was having crashes as well - there's a thread from about a month ago that I started for it. For some reason even though I had copied and pasted other items from other haks into the 2da wtih no problem, my adds weren't coming through right. I wound up entering all 65 of the E2 items by hand.

Update - tried adding the hak to a small test mod I had that only some henman scripts added to it - with no E items loaded it ran but had script errors (old mod, so not sure anymore what I was doing) With the castleruin on the map, it froze 75% into the loading bar. Could be issues with the mod.

Made a brand new mod with one area and only the hak, put the castleruin on the map and it ran just fine.

Hopefully you can get it to work and no one else has issues - I have a bunch more buildings to add.

One clue to look for if there's a problem with the copy/ paste was that items in the 2da lower down on the list were not matching their name with the right model anymore. Try looking at an item in the placeables category with a number higher than 6500 - the [cep24]dk cello or the xmas trees. If they're not correct, that could be an answer.

No complaints on the vault - anyone else add the hak and have problems?

Modifié par Randomdays, 20 avril 2013 - 09:29 .

[Rolo Kipp]

<99.999% sure...>

e3_castleruins has shadows turned on on very complex geometry. = Bad.

<...he's identified the problem>

[Rolo Kipp]

<wishes he had a fishing pole...>

Crash: Empire.hak, e3_castleruin.mdl as is
Crash: e3_castleruin with shadows off
Crash: " " " " flagged useable

Works: " " with shadows removed, vertexi welded at .8cm (4900+ -> 1448), *use01 node added*

So I see multiple issues as is. A lot of potential, but running the entire folder through cleanmodels would be a good idea.

Edit: So I am :-)

Also make sure there is at least one use node and that it is on the edge or outside the pwk.
Edit: Also of note, a flat pwk stops walking but doesn't block site or range attacks.
Converting the pwk to a solid shape would block LoS and also give you a simple shadow-caster.

Note: I also combined the two halves of the archive so there's a single .7z download. Just use with caution until it's improved :-/

<...so he could use this can of worms>

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 20 avril 2013 - 05:01 .

[Killmonger]

RK: Thank you for promptly investigating
I had thought I was losing my grip
<patience>

Randomdays:
Do not despair, I think this content is great (conditional 10) it just needs some more polishing
"A rose by any other name won't always work in the ole Nwn"

But this set back has caused me to inquire
Is a "use node" a dummy object linked independantly to the base or is it part of the hierarchy of the mdl?
I will tear apart a few other placeables and re read the CC3, I presume that they are all the same format
I have many questions about nodes (use, monster, vfx etc)

[Rolo Kipp]

 <feeling like...>

The usenode is the spot the engine moves the PC to when it tries to use an object. If the usenode is missing or unreachable, you can get stuck PCs or unuseable objects.

It looks like this for castleruins:


Which puts the PC about *here* when using:


Ask away :-)
Though if you have a lot, start a new thread so we don't hijack this one... ;-) 

Note: I'm running them all through cleanmodels now, turning off shadows. will test them when done.


<...a user>

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 20 avril 2013 - 05:22 .

[Killmonger]

<As I was just warming up max and marshalling my workflow>
Until I can verbalize my questions properly, I won't hijack the thread. (My nwn time online is so limited)
Has anyone documented the nomenclature structure of model type node hierarchies (as it is now understood) into one document?(ala "CC3 expanded")
I mean, the inclusion of a node into the left hand of aba was good (long ago) but the standardized inclusion of monster nodes into aba, placeables or tiles could seriously affect the the visual components of play (and spell casting; Thxs to Otr)

That said, how many use nodes can a placeable have? Does the engine select and move the character to the nearest one? Are they numbered sequentially? How can this info best be codified for the casual user (some vast cloud based spreadsheet or infographic? attached to the VPP?) The omnibus is great but so much reading can make my head hurt
Perhaps some one could pontificate the best standard procedures.....

There have been just so many recent improvements (ShadowM, virusman etc, etc)
I just want it all to play together nicely
I have not used CleanModels yet, as I am no "tiler" and my mdls tend to be fairly simple or just variations on a preset nwn theme. So I sometimes get bogged down with the mechanics

But the visuals above are tremendously helpful to a max user like me

I remain in awe of the speed and competence of the Nwn community

[Randomdays]

Thanks for working on this. Since I've only been working with gmax a month or so, most of this is outside my experience. I've never heard of cleanmodels before so I'll have to look into it. I see in the screenshot you changed the mdl to a character type. Why is that?

The original models were netimmerse nifs. Running them thru Blender, I deleted the E2 and E3 game specific parts and deleted duplicate vertices. For a couple of the models I couldn/t do this since it changed the model shape. For some reason, some of the models had doubles or even triples of the mesh so I had to pick one to use. I then exported as a obj and then took that into gmax.

The other thread I mentioned is here :social.bioware.com/forum/Neverwinter-Nights-1/NwN-1-Custom-Content-and-Community-Expansion-Pack/placeable2da-question-16059980-1.html

It has some answers to Killmonger's usenode question. From the discussion there, I had decided not to include a usenode and to keep the plane pwk. Rolo, are you saying that the pwk as a shape instead of a plane will create a shadow?

Modifié par Randomdays, 20 avril 2013 - 07:50 .

[Rolo Kipp]

<Acting, as always...>

Re character type: because I was lazy and a bit squeezed for time :-P
That was simply the last setting I had on clean models and didn't even notice it. I'll have to revert them :-/

Clean models does a lot of different things, not all of which I've used or even completely sure about, but it does a couple things excellently - optimize vert's & tverts and fix (if possible) shadow casts. It also works great on a whole directory of models at once. I have mine set up in the root ( c:cleanmodels) with an input and output directory. Drop all the models I want to clean in the input folder let it work for a while (some of your models took 15+ mins) and collect the cleaned models from output.

After I finish that batch (and revert model type), I'll load them up and see about making a few shadow-casting PWKs. If you want to share a Dropbox folder with me, I'll drop them in there for you to update Empire Buildings 1 :-)

PWK is non-rendered, but I think (not sure) you can drop a trimesh modifier on it and use it to shadow-cast. If not, clone it and make a purpose-built shadow-caster (which I know works).
The thing about shadows is either casting or having shadows self-cast on geometry that is too complicated (particularly with concave aspects) will crash the game.

Only a few of your models had shadows turned on, but those models (all the ones I tested) all crashed. Turning off shadows helped as long as the model was static, but as soon as I made it useable it crashed again. I solved that by welding vert's (on such a large model .8 cm is unnoticeable) and added a usenode at the edge of the PWK.

That worked fine :-)

And the easiest way to weld vert's and turn off shadows is with cleanmodels.
I *love* cleanmodels (even if I'm fatally drawn to naughtymodels ;-)

<...quite the character>

[Randomdays]

Thanks for all the info. Most I didn't know and some over my head.

I'll look for cleanmodels and see if I can set it up to use on the new additions to Empire I'm working on. NWGmax plus has a bunch of options that look simular - besides a remove shadows button, there's a set under clean model for weld verts and tverts among other things. Will using these as I work be the same as using clean models?

Probably the reason I wasn't seeing a crash was I had them set as static while testing. But I saw no crash on any model I tested, even without welding verts, turning off shadows or having no usenode.

Also thanks for;
1) running the 1st batch thru. If you're running the whole group of 65 thru, might as well delete the 1st empire and got to the 1.1 version.

2) trying to make some shadow casting pwks. Is this as simple as just using and shaping a box around the mesh instead of a plane? I understand about adding a trimesh modifier to it, not sure about the cloning route to do it.

It seems stange that some have shadows turned on and some don't since I started with a nwn2 import building from cep, deleted everything but the aurura base and ngon, and saved that for my starter for all future work.

From my convo with Nessa in the other thread, I had decided to not use a box or to add a usenode. I figured most people would set the building as static and it wouldn't be needed.

Am I wrong in thinking this? If so, I can go thru the new ones I've done so far and add the box/ usenode to them if you're looking at the original set. Let me know which ones you're looking at and I'll try to redo the ones you don't do.

Have never used dropbox so not sure how that works.

Once again, thanks for all the help.

Modifié par Randomdays, 21 avril 2013 - 08:50 .

[Randomdays]

Tested a new mesh I just converted. With nwmaxplus, I used the remove shadows function and the clean model function, did not do any vertice welding. I used a 10 sided cylinder for the pwk and shaped it around the mesh. Tested in game as both useable and static with no crash. pwk worked fine. Tried to set up a usenode but the character didn't react to it - not sure how to do that yet I think;

1) aurora base named e2_house3fe

2) pwk named e2_house3fe_pwk

3) created a small dummy and placed it on the ground in front of the mesh. named it house3fe_pwk_use01. parented it to the pwk.

In game, the character circled the mesh trying the reach the center and ignored the usenode.

[Rolo Kipp]

<just a quick reply...>

You're doing the usenode right, you're just making the names too long. Any names longer than 16 characters are invisible to NwN.

Re Dropbox: one of my most valuable free tools! It will create a "Dropbox" folder on your computer(s) and synch it with an online folder. Within that folder, you may have any number of folders that are either private or shared with others -very handy for collaboration! You also have a public folder where you can drop pics or files, right click on them to get a link and post the link allowing public read-access to them.

The best way to get Dropbox is with a referral link. Doing it that way instead of going directly to dropbox.com gives both you and the Referrer free bonus space.

So I hereby invite some Dropbox user to post their referrer link, because I have maxed out *my* bonus (16 gigs) and would like to see someone else benefit :-)

If no one offers a link, I'll post mine in a day or so. You'd still get the bonus, only mine would be wasted :-/

Dropbox usage once a shared folder is set up? Update file. Drag and copy to Dropbox. My folder synch with online folder synchs with your folder. Er, drop file in your Dropbox, I have it in mine. Hard drive crash, copy is online and with shared computers. Neat :-)

<...from my mobile palantir>

[Rolo Kipp]

<pulling out...>

I'm really digging this project, so I'll offer to redo Empire:
1) rename to emp_buildings1.hak (a bit more descriptive and allows multiple haks)
2) Cleanmodels the lot
3) Build solid PWKs
4) Enable simple shadow-casters
with enhancement in the future:
5) add 1/10th scale miniatures for overland map use (using armory) ;-)

Discussion: is 1/10th about the right scale? Feedback? Shad? Tarot? PstMarie?

You work on emp_buildings2 and share a folder with me :-)

What do you think?


<...all the stops>

[Tarot Redhand]

@Randomdays Here's my referal link if you choose to use it. Thanks in advance.

@Rolo, Eeeek! I can't remember what scale I used for the map mats minis that I put in my cast-offs project. I would aim to scale them so that in game terms they are about between a half and one meter tall. That way they should match the scale of the ones that thegeorge made.

TR 

Modifié par Tarot Redhand, 21 avril 2013 - 03:52 .

[Randomdays]

Thanks alot guys. I'll look into dropbox later tonight.

Thanks Rolo for going over the 1st empire hak. I'm going to be working on the new models tonight, mainly houses and market places, doing the nwplus clean and remove shadows on them plus the 3D pwks. If Rolo is willing, I'll upload it to dropbox in a pack of 20 or so to check if there's any problems. If not, then I'll update empire to a 2.0 when I get to another 50 so.

So of the models are little groups like a small village or some ruins. Not very useful as a group normally since walking thru the group would be hard with the pwk problems it would have, but would be very useful I think for the maps.

Thanks again guys.

[ShadowM]

Great work Randomdays. Just a suggestion to put links to you stuff and threads you want in your profile/set at the bottom of you posts, similar to everyone else. So we can jump to your stuff real fast. Thanks again for the contributions

[Randomdays]

Link added Shadow.

Rolo sent me a pm - I guess I need to go back over the new mdls - It seems they should be created as characters and not items after all.

[Rolo Kipp]

<just getting a...>

I'm not sure *why* I feel that way other than the thought of someone picking up a castle and sticking it in his backpack seems a mite absurd.

Well, there's also the anim set for items being very restricted and the engine searching for icons that don't exist and... well, I'm *pretty* sure it's a bad idea...

<...funny feeling>

[Randomdays]

I don't remember seeing anything in tutorials specifying, I think I picked item over character since I thought it made more sense - an inanimate object instead of a mobile one. I'll go ahead and switch to character unless someone comes in and contradicts it. Easy change to do as well.

[Jenna WSI]

Opened in nwn explorer. Looks great! I hope the bugs work out

[Randomdays]

I think they're solvable. I'm almost done on a expansion set of 25 more to be added to the hak, mainly houses and a few markets. I've changed to character type, welded vertices where I could (a few cases caused graphic errors like half a fence disappearing, so I couldn't weld all of the model, just 95% of it), used 3D pwks that block line of sight and targeting as well as casting shadows and added usenodes. I created a new mod and added them in as usable and no crashed at all.

Of course I had no crashes with the others either.

I'll finish the 1st 25 in a day or 2 and let Rolo look at them if he's willing when I set up dropbox.

more screenshots soon.

Thanks for all the support, advice and interest.

[Killmonger]

Go Randomdays Go !!
From the good stuff that I've seen so far, I'm just itching in anticipation of your new release...
Keep us "in the loop"

[Randomdays]

Thanks for the support KM. I'm done with the new pack but want to run them through cleanmodels to make sure they're right. The only issues I'm seeing is after meld, part of the mesh is lost sometimes, and that parts of the mesh are black instead of transparent since I don't know how to set up alpha/ transparency on the mesh/texture.

Still need to set up dropbox so that Rolo or anyone can look at them when done.

A couple of quick shots of 2 different markets - each was one mesh but I split them into 2 so you could use just 1 if you wanted or walk between them if you used both. The second one has a winter version as well.

Modifié par Randomdays, 29 avril 2013 - 09:32 .