283 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

The writers have done a fine job over the 1st two games establishing some themes.  They have been skillful enough to have some of the main issues of the game not be black and white and have a reasonable split of opinions on main content of the games.

A few examples are the main theme of mages vs chantry/templars and an ancilliary theme of the Qunari.  I get the impression there is a reasonable split of players on each side of the coin and some on the fence.  Some people are die hard supporters of mages, some are die hard supporters of templars/chantry.  Some like the Qunari and want to learn more about them.  Others hate the race and their teachings/actions.

Now comes DA3 and what seems like some full blown conflicts.  It's not going to be an easy job to cater to all players without one side or the other to feel railroaded or forced into certain actions.  They tried to walk the middle ground in DA2 and for the most part succeeded other than the game going over the top in some areas which was a bit of a mistake.

I'm not at all worried about individual quests or companions, as BioWare at least to me has pretty well always delivered in these areas  but I worry a bit about being lead down a path I don't want to go.

(For the record, I am pro chantry/templar and I dislike almost everything about the Qunari and Qun.)

[Iakus]

Eh, as long as the "optimal solution" isn't to have the protagonist leap into a column of green lyrium and turn everyone in Thedas into abominations...

Edit:  But seriously, I hope the two sides get shown as having both its reasonable and extreme members, and neither side ends up coming off as moustache-twirling villains or bloodthirsty nutcases.

For the record, I'm not on either side.  Elthina was right:  both sides have legitimate claims (though she should have done more to keep the groups from each other's throats.

Modifié par iakus, 18 mars 2013 - 02:59 .

[Renmiri1]

Mages FTW!

Guess you and I will meet on the battlefield

[MisterJB]

May you walk in the Maker's Divine Light, fellow Pro-Templar.

I don't think the Templar/Mage conflict will be central to the plot. Rather, I believe it will feature in the background much like the Ferelden Civil War does in DAO while the Inquisitor investigates who is using it plus other conflicts to advance his own plans.

My money is on Tevinter being the Big Bads.

Modifié par MisterJB, 18 mars 2013 - 03:01 .

[HolyAvenger]

Kill them all. The Maker will know his own.

[Jassper]

The way of the Jassper is the answer...

[SongstressKitsune]

I personally find the Qunari interesting from a sociological standpoint; their society is fascinating even if I personally would not want to be a part of it. So I would absolutely love to learn more about them.

I am also a pretty hardcore mage supporter; they've suffered indignities and injustices for something they can no more choose to have than they can choose their natural hair color and it's frankly about time for a revolt.

[Foolsfolly]

Will it be a challenge?

I guess it could if they half-ass it. But I really don't expect that here. I think they know what they're doing and that as far as the story and its central conflicts go... they can do it.

...if they don't half ass it like they did in DA2.

[Blazomancer]

I'm so sick of the mage-templar conflict. I would be happy if it's not the central theme of DA3's plot. Even if it were, I'd be more interested to have a neutral path as an option.

[Cigne]

Iirc, the devs have stated that that they wanted their own IPs so the can 'kick the sandcastle over', something they couldn't do in DnD (or the Star Wars universe). So I believe they knew which directions they were going to take the various conflicts when they created those conflicts.

The writers current situation (to me) is this: has the fan reactions to (for instance) the mage situation been what they expected, and if not, will they change their plans?

Imo, I see most players wanting their decisions to matter, so if they want the Circle/Chantry destroyed, then they want their PC to be able to accomplish that. And some will want the opposite. Carrying that over to the next game in the franchise would be problematic, especially if the outcome is supposed to affect more that just Orlias.

And, since it seems (to me) that DA3 is supposed to resolve what was started in DA2, they will NOT (edited-amazing how one word can matter, huh?) have an outcome where everyone loses...

I think they will 'kick the sandbox' in a new direction by changing the rules of the setting (or perhaps it would be more accurate to say 'uncover knowledge' that changes the rules). As in finding out why some are and some aren't born with magic, and maybe removing that restriction.

Personally, I'd like to see Thedas 'discover' something similar to the Joining, that could unlock anyone's magical potential.

Or a new Harrowing ritual that proves (beyond doubt) that there are certain mages that cannot be possessed, that cannot become abominations. That's not the same as losing control of summoned demons, mind you. This would explain a mage PC's apparent immunity, and create the possibility that mages could police themselves instead of templars. Or a templar Order of mages?

Tl;dr: I think the devs will espose something about the setting that will introduce a third option; an option that will not require the complete overthrow of the Chantry. And because of continuity, any drastic option the PC has regarding overthrowing the Chantry (or completely freeing the mages) will be confined to a local area in Thedas.

Modifié par Cigne, 18 mars 2013 - 04:40 .

[Robhuzz]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Will it be a challenge?

I guess it could if they half-ass it. But I really don't expect that here. I think they know what they're doing and that as far as the story and its central conflicts go... they can do it.

...if they don't half ass it like they did in DA2.

At least David Gaider is still the lead writer on this one so as far as story goes DA:I should be fine. Mass Effect showed that switching lead writers halfway into the series is a distinctly bad thing.

Whether or not they'll half ass the game is anyone's guess. DA2 wasn't remotely finished. SWTOR wasn't and ME3 definitely wasn't either. In fact most if not all of EA's developers seem to be rushed from start to finish trying to get the game out on the market as fast as possible. After the backlash over DA2 and ME3 I'm hopefull that they have learned a thing or two about releasing a finished product for a change but I'm not convinced...

Imo, I see most players wanting their decisions to matter, so if they want the Circle/Chantry destroyed, then they want their PC to be able to accomplish that. And some will want the opposite. Carrying that over to the next game in the franchise would be problematic, especially if the outcome is supposed to affect more that just Orlias.

This is why I feel making sequels will become harder and harder for games aiming to do this. Players want some great earth shattering matter to resolve that utterly changes the world (for better or worse) but it's impossible to create a true sequel afterwards without a big retcon, canonizing something or sweeping it under the rug completely (which leaves the question how big the resolved situation was in the first place). If bioware plans to continue the franchise after DA:I, we should not expect multiple widely different endings.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 18 mars 2013 - 05:13 .

[Iakus]

Robhuzz wrote...

This is why I feel making sequels will become harder and harder for games aiming to do this. Players want some great earth shattering matter to resolve that utterly changes the world (for better or worse) but it's impossible to create a true sequel afterwards without a big retcon, canonizing something or sweeping it under the rug completely (which leaves the question how big the resolved situation was in the first place). If bioware plans to continue the franchise after DA:I, we should not expect multiple widely different endings.

And this is why I generally oppose save imports.  ME3 pretty much broke under the weight of all those choices made.  And the ending of ME3 makes further sequels impractical without setting them so far into the future the end choice becomes irrelevant anyway.

Dragon Age, by switching protagonists and locales with each game, is slowing the process, but sooner or later it's going to fall apart too.

[IanPolaris]

Robhuzz wrote...

At least David Gaider is still the lead writer on this one so as far as story goes DA:I should be fine. Mass Effect showed that switching lead writers halfway into the series is a distinctly bad thing.

Actually to be honest (and admittedly a bit mean), this is one of the things that worries me about DA3/DA:I.  I say that because to my knowledge DG is still on record of saying that DA2 was a great game (when I think by now most people know otherwise).  If the person writing DA:I is the same one that did DA2 and doesn't recognize what went wrong, then why should I think that DA:I is going to be better?

-Polaris

[Iakus]

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually to be honest (and admittedly a bit mean), this is one of the things that worries me about DA3/DA:I.  I say that because to my knowledge DG is still on record of saying that DA2 was a great game (when I think by now most people know otherwise).  If the person writing DA:I is the same one that did DA2 and doesn't recognize what went wrong, then why should I think that DA:I is going to be better?

-Polaris

There's no way any developer is going to admit to a poor game, even if it makes your console vomit up strange green goo (look at the denial of how ME3's ending was received).  At most, you'll get admissions that certain aspects didn't work out as well as they'd hoped.  Or weren't received as well as they'd like.  That much has been admitted to concerning DA2.  And the Legacy and Mark of the Assassin dlcs do show they were trying to correct some of those things.  How much gets corrected in DA3 remains to be seen, of course

[IanPolaris]

iakus wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually to be honest (and admittedly a bit mean), this is one of the things that worries me about DA3/DA:I.  I say that because to my knowledge DG is still on record of saying that DA2 was a great game (when I think by now most people know otherwise).  If the person writing DA:I is the same one that did DA2 and doesn't recognize what went wrong, then why should I think that DA:I is going to be better?

-Polaris

There's no way any developer is going to admit to a poor game, even if it makes your console vomit up strange green goo (look at the denial of how ME3's ending was received).  At most, you'll get admissions that certain aspects didn't work out as well as they'd hoped.  Or weren't received as well as they'd like.  That much has been admitted to concerning DA2.  And the Legacy and Mark of the Assassin dlcs do show they were trying to correct some of those things.  How much gets corrected in DA3 remains to be seen, of course

The short answer is "we shall see" I suppose.  I note that Legacy was actually quite good (within the confines of what was possible in DA2 of course) but MotA really was not.  That concerns me since MotA came after Legacy.

-Polaris

[Iakus]

IanPolaris wrote...

The short answer is "we shall see" I suppose.  I note that Legacy was actually quite good (within the confines of what was possible in DA2 of course) but MotA really was not.  That concerns me since MotA came after Legacy.

-Polaris

From a story point, no. Legacy has MotA beat, hands down.

But it did introduce an exploration component, puzzles, and stealth mechanic (albiet a really basic one)

Modifié par iakus, 18 mars 2013 - 06:38 .

[Sejborg]

I'm sick and tired of the Mage/Templar conflict/storyline. I just want it to be over with already. Another game with a story about that plot would be really boring. By the end of DA2 I was beyond fed up. Sooo tedious.

[Robhuzz]

IanPolaris wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

At least David Gaider is still the lead writer on this one so as far as story goes DA:I should be fine. Mass Effect showed that switching lead writers halfway into the series is a distinctly bad thing.

Actually to be honest (and admittedly a bit mean), this is one of the things that worries me about DA3/DA:I.  I say that because to my knowledge DG is still on record of saying that DA2 was a great game (when I think by now most people know otherwise).  If the person writing DA:I is the same one that did DA2 and doesn't recognize what went wrong, then why should I think that DA:I is going to be better?

-Polaris

A fair point. I wasn't aware of DG's stance on DA2. If he really can't recognize what went wrong with the game (and after ME3 and Bioware's response I dare say whatever it is has spread to the rest of the company) then that is quite worrying. 

It may be just for keeping up appearances though. Corporations aren't known for being self critical, EA even less so. They always manage to lay the blame on others. But even they can't be blind and what numbers I saw indicated DAO sold a heck of a lot better than DA2, and the language of money is the only one that EA speaks quite fluidly. But I digress. I don't want to turn this into another anti EA rant.

I'm sick and tired of the Mage/Templar conflict/storyline. I just want it to be over with already. Another game with a story about that plot would be really boring. By the end of DA2 I was beyond fed up. Sooo tedious.

Yeah it's not my favorite subject either but I can see some potential in it regardless. Still I'd love to play an arrogant warrior or rogue (or even a mage - imagine that!) that refuses to choose either side, stating it's simply not his or her problem and that they should solve it themselves.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 18 mars 2013 - 07:02 .

[Sejborg]

Robhuzz wrote...

I'm sick and tired of the Mage/Templar conflict/storyline. I just want it to be over with already. Another game with a story about that plot would be really boring. By the end of DA2 I was beyond fed up. Sooo tedious.

Yeah it's not my favorite subject either but I can see some potential in it regardless. Still I'd love to play an arrogant warrior or rogue (or even a mage - imagine that!) that refuses to choose either side, stating it's simply not his or her problem and that they should solve it themselves.

I would rather have both sides wiped from existence. I honestly don't care for a proper solution at this point. I would rather have it all be over in a ruff, and move on to something else. There must be something else to explore in this world they have created, than the fighting between the mages and templars. 

DA2 showed that both sides consist of nothing but morons, and Bioware clearly don't want player choice to influence the progression of the mage/templar conflict, making it even more frustratingly boring to delve into. 

[Renmiri1]

Oi, another DA2 bashing thread.

I really look forward to seeing the mage / templar conflict. It is an interesting story plot with no clear "good" or "evil" and very well done so far. Heavens the writers even managed to get some pro templar people!!

Thedas lived centuries without a Blight. To have blights every other game now would ruin the immersion

[RaidenXS]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Oi, another DA2 bashing thread.

I really look forward to seeing the mage / templar conflict. It is an interesting story plot with no clear "good" or "evil" and very well done so far. Heavens the writers even managed to get some pro templar people!!

Thedas lived centuries without a Blight. To have blights every other game now would ruin the immersion

wtf?! I'm suprised they have pro-mages! Anders is a terrorist that killed an innocent person simply because she didn't want to be involved. Anders and the mages must be punished. Gregor needs to call the Right of Annulment at his Circle! Nothing but a complete purge will cleanse the land of evil!

Modifié par RaidenXS, 18 mars 2013 - 07:55 .

[Chiramu]

All stories take time and effort to write, this story would be just as difficult to polish as any other story. Now I wish they could polish their stories even more for the games :<.

[Fredward]

The people who get so into the whole templar/mage thing that they start using their vernacular kinda scare me. As for the story... For me Bioware has yet to screw anything up past redemption. So no pressure. xp

[The Elder King]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Oi, another DA2 bashing thread.

I really look forward to seeing the mage / templar conflict. It is an interesting story plot with no clear "good" or "evil" and very well done so far. Heavens the writers even managed to get some pro templar people!!

Thedas lived centuries without a Blight. To have blights every other game now would ruin the immersion

I agree on the bolded part. Which it doesn't mean that DAI, or future DA game, couldn't have darkpawn as one of the main plots, considering that Corypheus is alive. It's a shame that the Architect could be dead in some playthrough, otherwise I'd have liked to see a fight between Corypheus (who is loyal to the Old Gods, and probably to the "voice") and the Architect.