283 réponses à ce sujet

[Twisted Path]

I'm completely uninterested in the mage/templar thing. It's the least interesting aspect of the setting for me. More interesting things being: the Qunari, dragons, the Old Gods, whatever the deal is with the Maker and the Black City, the cuthroat dwarven culture, knights fighting in cool Game of Thrones style battles, and the darkspawn.

[Cigne]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Oi, another DA2 bashing thread
...

Yeah. Didn't start that way, though.

I like DA2. That doesn't mean I don't recognize its faults. Or DAO's, or ME1's.... but I've played DA2 more than DAO, and I've played using a mage as many times as with a rogue. I even went back and gave DAO mages another chance (started two, and finished with one, all post DA2).

On topic: importing saves was originally an ME thing (iirc) and was not planned for DA. But the idea was so popular, and  a lot of fans (no I won't try to define "a lot":innocent:) started viewing it a Bioware thing. One problem, though, is that ME was planned from the start as a trilogy, with an ending (duh) while DA as an ongoing series of games.

Look at Bioware's previous games. In Jade Empire, you had the equivalent of noble, selfish, or loser at the end. It would have been difficult to have a sequel that reflected the players choice, unless it was set so far in the future or past that the choice didn't happen yet, or could be refered to as a footnote in history. Also no sequel for KotoR. Bioware never had to show how your Bhaalspawn's story effected the world(s) in a sequel.

I think there is a basic conflict between player agency on the scale of being able to shape the world, and the type of story that includes world shaping events.

And look at what's possible down the road, if the series continues past the mage issue; Does the player help the Qunari win, support the intelligent darkspawn, help all the elves get their magic back, free/destroy the Old Gods, and so on?

I believe that if we want to keep playing in the DA universe, Bioware will have to be who decides the outcome of choices that drastically change Thedas; or keep the universe static, and not have stories that have a drastic impact on the setting.

Or.... something else.

Modifié par Cigne, 18 mars 2013 - 08:46 .

[KingsTiger]

I think they may end up using some sort of trickery present an array of what we see as third options; destroying the chantry or burning all the mages make a sequel a no-go, but reforming the current system, focusing both sides' ire on a third party (Qunari or Tevinter, for instance), or some previously unforeseen complications forcing a truce are all pretty good options.

[MisterJB]

RaidenXS wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Oi, another DA2 bashing thread.

I really look forward to seeing the mage / templar conflict. It is an interesting story plot with no clear "good" or "evil" and very well done so far. Heavens the writers even managed to get some pro templar people!!

Thedas lived centuries without a Blight. To have blights every other game now would ruin the immersion

wtf?! I'm suprised they have pro-mages! Anders is a terrorist that killed an innocent person simply because she didn't want to be involved. Anders and the mages must be punished. Gregor needs to call the Right of Annulment at his Circle! Nothing but a complete purge will cleanse the land of evil!

Preach it, Brother. It's time to do away with that sorry excuse for a punishment dubbed of "Tranquility" and return to our roots. What we need is a good, old-fashioned Witch-burning.

[Dave of Canada]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Heavens the writers even managed to get some pro templar people!!

Most of the pro-Templar people have always been pro-Templar, it has little to do with the writing but the dilemma being presented.

[Wulfram]

I think the key will be to present us with new situations that fit with the themes already established. I don't need to see Kirkwall writ large. I don't need to have some Qunari act supercilious and then say they're going to invade some day.  But that doesn't mean we need to be done with mages or Qunari

Modifié par Wulfram, 18 mars 2013 - 10:17 .

[DragonMage95]

MisterJB wrote...

RaidenXS wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Oi, another DA2 bashing thread.

I really look forward to seeing the mage / templar conflict. It is an interesting story plot with no clear "good" or "evil" and very well done so far. Heavens the writers even managed to get some pro templar people!!

Thedas lived centuries without a Blight. To have blights every other game now would ruin the immersion

wtf?! I'm suprised they have pro-mages! Anders is a terrorist that killed an innocent person simply because she didn't want to be involved. Anders and the mages must be punished. Gregor needs to call the Right of Annulment at his Circle! Nothing but a complete purge will cleanse the land of evil!

Preach it, Brother. It's time to do away with that sorry excuse for a punishment dubbed of "Tranquility" and return to our roots. What we need is a good, old-fashioned Witch-burning.

All mages should not be punished because one decided to go blow up a chantry. If mages were free in the first place there would be no reason for them to rebel. Also, if any mages get burned there will be hell to pay! 

[Kingthlayer]

Blazomancer wrote...

I'm so sick of the mage-templar conflict. I would be happy if it's not the central theme of DA3's plot. Even if it were, I'd be more interested to have a neutral path as an option.

Neutral is the option I would like the most.Templar or Mage doesn't matter to me, everyone gets a turn.

[DragonMage95]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

Blazomancer wrote...

I'm so sick of the mage-templar conflict. I would be happy if it's not the central theme of DA3's plot. Even if it were, I'd be more interested to have a neutral path as an option.

Neutral is the option I would like the most.Templar or Mage doesn't matter to me, everyone gets a turn.

I think the Mage/Templar conflict is interesting and has some great potential story wise. 

[MisterJB]

DomRod95 wrote...
All mages should not be punished because one decided to go blow up a chantry. If mages were free in the first place there would be no reason for them to rebel. Also, if any mages get burned there will be hell to pay! 

First, that was a joke.
Second, the Magisters are free, Connor was free. Simple freedom doesn't prevent mages from being dangerous because there is an immense number of situations in everyday life that can cause a mage distress which would cause a mage to abuse his or her powers, never mind the fact some mages would seek to rule non-mages.
Simple drunkedness could lead to a mage losing control of his magic and shoot fireballs everywhere.

And so the cycle begins anew...

[The Elder King]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Heavens the writers even managed to get some pro templar people!!

Most of the pro-Templar people have always been pro-Templar, it has little to do with the writing but the dilemma being presented.

Indeed.
Though in my opinion Bioware did a good job in making the two groups fell in the same area in the two games: they were "grey", neither good or bad in DAO, and badly written evil/insane in DA2. I wish they'll return to the DAO's approach for those two groups. Otherwise I'll pray for a third path, if a decision between the two sides has to be taken in DA3.

Modifié par hhh89, 18 mars 2013 - 11:26 .

[DragonMage95]

MisterJB wrote...

DomRod95 wrote...
All mages should not be punished because one decided to go blow up a chantry. If mages were free in the first place there would be no reason for them to rebel. Also, if any mages get burned there will be hell to pay! 

First, that was a joke.
Second, the Magisters are free, Connor was free. Simple freedom doesn't prevent mages from being dangerous because there is an immense number of situations in everyday life that can cause a mage distress which would cause a mage to abuse his or her powers, never mind the fact some mages would seek to rule non-mages.
Simple drunkedness could lead to a mage losing control of his magic and shoot fireballs everywhere.

And so the cycle begins anew...

I wasn't being completely serious either. Also, I disagree, anyone can lose control and seek to overpower and anyone can abuse power, mage or not, in fact regular humans have done so more often than mages. But, to each his own.

[The Elder King]

DomRod95 wrote...

I wasn't being completely serious either. Also, I disagree, anyone can lose control and seek to overpower and anyone can abuse power, mage or not, in fact regular humans have done so more often than mages. But, to each his own.

Don't know about "often" in Thedas, but mages overpowered non-mages for centuries (Tevinter on non-mages humans and elves), and non-mages overpowered mages for centuries (non-mages human nations and the Chantry on mages and elves).. Don't see much difference in there.

[Plaintiff]

RaidenXS wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Oi, another DA2 bashing thread.

I really look forward to seeing the mage / templar conflict. It is an interesting story plot with no clear "good" or "evil" and very well done so far. Heavens the writers even managed to get some pro templar people!!

Thedas lived centuries without a Blight. To have blights every other game now would ruin the immersion

wtf?! I'm suprised they have pro-mages! Anders is a terrorist that killed an innocent person simply because she didn't want to be involved. Anders and the mages must be punished. Gregor needs to call the Right of Annulment at his Circle! Nothing but a complete purge will cleanse the land of evil!

Elthina was the Grand Cleric of Kirkwall, it's her job to be involved. If she didn't want to be involved, then she should've quit and let the position go to someone with a shred of competence.

Neutrality in the face of evil is evil itself. Elthina got better than she deserved.

[MisterJB]

hhh89 wrote...

DomRod95 wrote...

I wasn't being completely serious either. Also, I disagree, anyone can lose control and seek to overpower and anyone can abuse power, mage or not, in fact regular humans have done so more often than mages. But, to each his own.

Don't know about "often" in Thedas, but mages overpowered non-mages for centuries (Tevinter on non-mages humans and elves), and non-mages overpowered mages for centuries (non-mages human nations and the Chantry on mages and elves).. Don't see much difference in there.

Plus, there needs to be special conditions for there to be a mundane as powerful as Meredith or Loghain such as hero status, external threat to serve as justification, etc so that when s/he abuses that power, the results are catastrofic.
On the other hand, mage children can cause catastrophes by themselves.

[Plaintiff]

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

DomRod95 wrote...

I wasn't being completely serious either. Also, I disagree, anyone can lose control and seek to overpower and anyone can abuse power, mage or not, in fact regular humans have done so more often than mages. But, to each his own.

Don't know about "often" in Thedas, but mages overpowered non-mages for centuries (Tevinter on non-mages humans and elves), and non-mages overpowered mages for centuries (non-mages human nations and the Chantry on mages and elves).. Don't see much difference in there.

Plus, there needs to be special conditions for there to be a mundane as powerful as Meredith or Loghain such as hero status, external threat to serve as justification, etc so that when s/he abuses that power, the results are catastrofic.
On the other hand, mage children can cause catastrophes by themselves.

Yeah, mages are so dangerous that they've been subjugated for centuries despite numerous attempts at rebellion.

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...
Yeah, mages are so dangerous that they've been subjugated for centuries despite numerous attempts at rebellion.

It only took a civil war plus a corrupted dragon-god and its armies of endless hellspawn plus a continental revolution in order to remove the from power in half of Thedas.
It shouldn't be a problem to repeat it if we have to, I think we should risk giving them freedom.

Ask the people of Redcliff if they wouldn't have been much happier if Isolde had just sent her damn kid to the Circle. Ask Hawke's mother if Quentin was not dangerous. Ask Elthina.

[DragonMage95]

Plaintiff wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

DomRod95 wrote...

I wasn't being completely serious either. Also, I disagree, anyone can lose control and seek to overpower and anyone can abuse power, mage or not, in fact regular humans have done so more often than mages. But, to each his own.

Don't know about "often" in Thedas, but mages overpowered non-mages for centuries (Tevinter on non-mages humans and elves), and non-mages overpowered mages for centuries (non-mages human nations and the Chantry on mages and elves).. Don't see much difference in there.

Plus, there needs to be special conditions for there to be a mundane as powerful as Meredith or Loghain such as hero status, external threat to serve as justification, etc so that when s/he abuses that power, the results are catastrofic.
On the other hand, mage children can cause catastrophes by themselves.

Yeah, mages are so dangerous that they've been subjugated for centuries despite numerous attempts at rebellion.

Any human without magic can cause more damage with a sword than a mage can with magic regardless of status. The Chantry has held more power for longer over Thedas than Tevinter has.

[The Elder King]

Plaintiff wrote...


Yeah, mages are so dangerous that they've been subjugated for centuries despite numerous attempts at rebellion.

Regardless of the danger of magic and mages, mages are surely powerful, more than non-mages. There's a reason why mages (with the Felicissima Armada in the naval side of the war) were determinant against the qunari. The latter has far less mages, and less powerful than the mages of the Andrastian nations. The mages made the technological gap between qunari and Andrastian nations almost null.

Modifié par hhh89, 18 mars 2013 - 11:48 .

[DragonMage95]

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Yeah, mages are so dangerous that they've been subjugated for centuries despite numerous attempts at rebellion.

It only took a civil war plus a corrupted dragon-god and its armies of endless hellspawn plus a continental revolution in order to remove the from power in half of Thedas.
It shouldn't be a problem to repeat it if we have to, I think we should risk giving them freedom.

Ask the people of Redcliff if they wouldn't have been much happier if Isolde had just sent her damn kid to the Circle. Ask Hawke's mother if Quentin was not dangerous. Ask Elthina.

If Isolde didn't have to send her kid to the Circle in the first place the whole demon thing wouldn't have happened.

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

Ask Elthina.

I don't remember this too well, but was the bomb that Anders created impossible to make without magic?

[MisterJB]

DomRod95 wrote...
If Isolde didn't have to send her kid to the Circle in the first place the whole demon thing wouldn't have happened.

Connor was possessed because his father was dying which is natural part of life. It had nothing to do with the Circle.

[DragonMage95]

MisterJB wrote...

DomRod95 wrote...
If Isolde didn't have to send her kid to the Circle in the first place the whole demon thing wouldn't have happened.

Connor was possessed because his father was dying which is natural part of life. It had nothing to do with the Circle.

Uhm really, he was possessed because she called a blood mage and apostate to train him because she didn't want him to go to the circle. The same mage who poisoned Eamon and caused Connor to become possessed.

[DragonMage95]

hhh89 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Ask Elthina.

I don't remember this too well, but was the bomb that Anders created impossible to make without magic?

Yes it was created with magic, he took out an entire chantry with a magic made bomb, but a man also took out an army and a slew of grey wardens just by giving a simple order, that didn't involve magic. And if Thedas knew how to make bombs i'm sure they could do the same thing.

Modifié par DomRod95, 18 mars 2013 - 11:56 .

[BlueMagitek]

Uh, it was the Darkspawn that slew the army and Loghain decided not feeding them more was a good idea. :/