283 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonMage95]

BlueMagitek wrote...

DomRod95 wrote...
Not lying bud. As you can see I never said holocaust or said anything comparing Loghain to Hitler. I said SAYING LOGHAIN isnt RESPONSIBLE for the DEATHS AT OSTAGAR is like SAYING HITLER isnt RESPONSIBLE for the DEATHS OF THE JEWISH. I never said they were the same thing. Also what youre saying about Loghain is opinion and what im saying is pretty much fact because it happened. It's in the game, perhaps replay it. Now if you have nothing to do besides start an argument then i'd appreciate it if you left things alone and moved on.

You made a clear reference to it, that's all that matters.  I think you need to calm down.  Relax, take the advice I gave you earlier and take ten minutes to have a drink of water, so to speak, I think you'll be refreshed.

No, not really.  In game supports my version.  Though it is good to know that you refuse to even acknowledge any of the blame on your warden for his failure at the Tower.  You didn't light the beacon on the signal, Alistar just guesses.  If you didn't notice, the Darkspawn horde is still descending from the mountain.  The plan was, as you don't recall, is to more or less catch the darkspawn in a rock/hard place situation and eradicate them all.  Loghain would flank them while Cailan took the brunt.  Guess what?  There are more Darkspawn, Cailan didn't want to wait for reinforcements and it ended up costing him dearly.

Whatever Blue.I'm calm, I don't know why you think otherwise. Any who, i'd probably have a better talk with a rock so i'm going to move on and hopefully you'll do the same. Sorry if I offended you with my "clear reference" to the Holocaust. Bye.

[Plaintiff]

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Funnily enough, I base what people "deserve" based on their actions, not what they were born as. And I don't subscribe the the foul and bigoted laws of the Chantry. I don't give a **** what Elthina deserves according to he corrupt laws of her society, I'm talking about what she actually deserves.

If Elthina's only crime was being "ineffective" (more like grossly negligent), then I say we dress her up in some mage robes and lock her in a room with Kerras and Alrik. Then I'll sit back with a magazine and be "ineffective" for a few hours too.

Tell you what, I'm going to give you a minute or an hour and let you think on the fact that you suggested an old lady who has shown nothing but kindness and respect to everyone she met should be gangraped.
I can agree with you that something should have been done to punish Karras and Alrik but what you are suggesting is that if a policeman, under the direct responsability of a pollice officer, is corrupt and one day, rapes and entire family, that the proper sanction to the police officer is to have his own family raped. Despite the fact there might be several other factors here at play that difficulted the officer's duty.

I'm going to assume that tensions just got a little high which can happen in heated debates. Otherwise, there really is not point in continuing this argument.

I'm more concerned about the kindness and respect Elthina shows to people she hasn't met, but are still under her care. The mages of the Gallows.

She is either aware of their suffering and does nothing, in which case she is evil. Or she is unaware, in which case she is so grossly incompetent that it boggles the mind. Or she is aware, vaguely, but does not actually understand, in which case she needs to be made to.

You excuse Elthina by saying that she is simply "ineffective". My point is that being ineffecitve is not an excuse, given what the mages suffer. You are repulsed because I said we should allow Elthina to be raped, but that is exactly what she is allowing, every day that she fails to take action.

For what it's worth, I would not arrange for Elthina to be sexually assaulted, were it actually in my power to do so.

I would just kill her.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 19 mars 2013 - 02:00 .

[DragonMage95]

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Funnily enough, I base what people "deserve" based on their actions, not what they were born as. And I don't subscribe the the foul and bigoted laws of the Chantry. I don't give a **** what Elthina deserves according to he corrupt laws of her society, I'm talking about what she actually deserves.

If Elthina's only crime was being "ineffective" (more like grossly negligent), then I say we dress her up in some mage robes and lock her in a room with Kerras and Alrik. Then I'll sit back with a magazine and be "ineffective" for a few hours too.

Tell you what, I'm going to give you a minute or an hour and let you think on the fact that you suggested an old lady who has shown nothing but kindness and respect to everyone she met should be gangraped.
I can agree with you that something should have been done to punish Karras and Alrik but what you are suggesting is that if a policeman, under the direct responsability of a pollice officer, is corrupt and one day, rapes and entire family, that the proper sanction to the police officer is to have his own family raped. Despite the fact there might be several other factors here at play that difficulted the officer's duty.

I'm going to assume that tensions just got a little high which can happen in heated debates. Otherwise, there really is not point in continuing this argument.

I agree. I don't think this debate will get any further besides back and forth arguing between sides. Hopefully this will end with no hard feelings. I'd like to say that both sides had valid arguments and I respect everyones opinion. Clearly there can be no agreement, or as good ol terrorist Anders would say, "There can be no peace.". 

[lil yonce]

Yeah, this thread is getting out of hand.

[addiction21]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Yeah, this thread is getting out of hand.

On the internet they usually do. Especially when it comes to politics. Even fictional politics in a fictional setting.

[DragonMage95]

krul2k wrote...

sooo......cookies are nice

Especially home made chocolate chip cookies and warm with a glass of milk please.

Modifié par DomRod95, 19 mars 2013 - 02:33 .

[Silfren]

Maybe the problem lies in the fact that some of us don't think Elthina's veneer of kindness and respect should mitigate her total lack of action.

I mean, seriously, MisterJB, you're basically saying that because Elthina presents herself as kindly and respectful, that this totally erases her refusal to do anything about templar abuses. Forget trying to find some kind of compromise between templar duties and mage freedom...Elthina knew about and did NOTHING about the rapes, the illegal Tranquilizations. Yet you refer to her as kind and respectful.

[lil yonce]

DomRod95 wrote...

krul2k wrote...

sooo......cookies are nice

Especially home made chocolate chip cookies and warm with a glass of milk please.

Sugar cookies with tons of icing for me please.  

[TEWR]

I.... um... well.... you see.... hmm....

Ah **** it.



At least that's what's going through my head on these last couple of pages.

But for this:

Connor was possessed because his father was dying which is natural part of life. It had nothing to do with the Circle.

Eamon wasn't dying, for one. He was simply rendered comatose due to a poison Jowan -- under Loghain's orders -- gave to him. He appeared to have been deathly ill, but in reality he wasn't.

Secondly, if Connor was allowed to live outside of the Circle Isolde and Eamon -- who Loghain says knew about Connor's magehood, but covered it up as well -- would've been able to hire a Mage to tutor Connor years ago, thus giving him a proper insight into the nature of Demons, something he did not know about.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 19 mars 2013 - 04:39 .

[TEWR]

hhh89 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Ask Elthina.

I don't remember this too well, but was the bomb that Anders created impossible to make without magic?

No. The ingredients used were saltpeter and... sulphur I believe, but under different names. They're the ingredients for gunpowder. Anders may have tossed in a few magical ingredients -- like Fire Crystals, used to make fire bombs -- but you do not need to be a Mage to work with such alchemical reagents, since there's a Dwarven Herbalist in Orzammar.

[Solmanian]

While I reckon some people are pro-templar (I'm leaning to towad the notion that the mages need to be supervised), i doubt many are pro-chantry. Who wants to support a bunch of religious nut jobs, when it's not even your IRL religion? I dislike people trying to shove their religion down my throat; I'm all for freedom of religion, don't get me wrong, I zealously fight people who try to begrudge people for having a different religion/ideology, but that works both ways.

Many atrocities were made in the made in the name of "saving the heathens souls", and those are the well meaning ones. It doesn't even include the "kill the infidels" crowd.

[DragonMage95]

Youth4Ever wrote...

DomRod95 wrote...

krul2k wrote...

sooo......cookies are nice

Especially home made chocolate chip cookies and warm with a glass of milk please.

Sugar cookies with tons of icing for me please.  

Ah, an icing person. I'm the only one amongst my friends and family who prefers little to no icing, but I do enjoy Non-Dairy Whipped Frosting. Although I did once have a Watermelon flavored sugar cookie with lots of icing and it was one of the best sugar cookies I ever had. Poor OP , I feel like this thread has probably saddened them with its being off topic.

[Dave of Canada]

Solmanian wrote...

While I reckon some people are pro-templar (I'm leaning to towad the notion that the mages need to be supervised), i doubt many are pro-chantry.

All my characters are pro-Chantry. Having lived in a community which always spouts dogma, it's really hard to move past it all. Thus, I've always imagined my protagonist--who is far less educated than we modern people are--doesn't really confront theology on the level which we do, thus effectively believing all dogma and being a devout Andrastian.

It tends to ****** off all the mages in my groups, makes me anti-Qunari (which is why I loathed MOTA) and creates an interesting protagonist (from my point of view) because he's distinctly not myself. The closest thing I've got to anti-Chantry is my Dwarven Commoner who doesn't really respect anyone's customs.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 19 mars 2013 - 05:32 .

[Daerog]

Solmanian wrote...

While I reckon some people are pro-templar (I'm leaning to towad the notion that the mages need to be supervised), i doubt many are pro-chantry.

My main canon Warden mage was pro Chantry and pro Circle (as in approving the Circle, not wanting to dissolve it), pretty much a Loyalist mage but not to the point of being apologetic or zealous, as he did get along with Morrigan (ended up with Leliana, with shared beliefs and such).

My main canon Hawke was... well, he was an andrastian but really didn't want to get involved with any of the politics and was just pro family and friends, so since he was a warrior, chose to defend the Circle for Bethany.

I usually play pro chantry or neutral towards it... I prefer to play human and having positive or neutral view makes the most sense to me for the PC.

[lil yonce]

I'm Pro-Justinia V.

[Dave of Canada]

Youth4Ever wrote...

I'm Pro-Justinia V.

I'm going to enjoy--if the option is allowed--to over-throw her and replace her with a templar sympathizing puppet.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 19 mars 2013 - 05:59 .

[lil yonce]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

I'm Pro-Justinia V.

I'm going to enjoy--if the option is allowed--to over-throw her and replace her with a templar sympathizing puppet.

Pro-Chantry Expansion via Templar Power or Anti-Mage Divine?

For the Chantry!

[Fredward]

Ya'll ever notice that the mage supporters tend to come up for Bioware in most instances while the templar supporters are usually uber negative or entitled?

Weird.

[TEWR]

I'm pro-Dwarf, myself. If it advances Dwarven interests, then that's what I'm going to do.

[Dave of Canada]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Pro-Chantry Expansion via Templar Power or Anti-Mage Divine?

Templar puppet which will allow harsher restrictions to be imposed upon the Circles, authorizing a global witch-hunt against the Apostates in order to establish the status-quo as quickly as possible (as Templar hunting every apostate individually would take far too much time).

Any Divine which shows mage sympathies would allow madness to rule for far too long, we can't allow chaos to rule with a potential Qunari invasion looming. 

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Ya'll ever notice that the mage supporters tend to come up for Bioware in most instances while the templar supporters are usually uber negative or entitled?

Cute. 3/10 for effort.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 19 mars 2013 - 06:31 .

[Vit246]

OP, the writers did not really walk a middle ground in DA2. Everything was taken to a poorly written, contrived, and idiotic extreme. DAO was more of a middle ground.

[SgtElias]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Templar puppet which will allow harsher restrictions to be imposed upon the Circles, authorizing a global witch-hunt against the Apostates in order to establish the status-quo as quickly as possible (as Templar hunting every apostate individually would take far too much time).

Just out of curiosity, do you never play mage characters, or do all your mage characters reach the same conclusions as well?

Not trying to get cute, just curious.

[brushyourteeth]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Ya'll ever notice that the mage supporters tend to come up for Bioware in most instances while the templar supporters are usually uber negative or entitled?

Weird.

I LOL'd.

I've definitely noticed the templar/chantry supporters being negative (not so much entitled). (I am one, BTW, soo... just being honest)  Though to be fair, I haven't seen mage supporters be significantly positive by comparison, and a few of them are downright crazy.