caineghis2500 wrote...
Original Stikman wrote...
caineghis2500 wrote...
So when is this video coming out? When are guys planning to do it?
I knew you leaving was too good to be true
You have a problem with me or something dude? Anyways when are guys doing this video?
DJMetaverse wrote...
And yes, grammar corrections. If you're trying to sound intelligent, at least try and make sure you are using the proper grammar. It's only courteous.
Modifié par CNevarezN, 19 mars 2013 - 06:01 .
DJMetaverse wrote...
This thread is the highlight of Stikman's year. He gets to think he is solving first world problems apparently. Because snap freeze is a huge issue to be discussed. Maybe you should call an emergency UN council meeting.
And yes, grammar corrections. If you're trying to sound intelligent, at least try and make sure you are using the proper grammar. It's only courteous.
xtorma wrote...
DJMetaverse wrote...
This thread is the highlight of Stikman's year. He gets to think he is solving first world problems apparently. Because snap freeze is a huge issue to be discussed. Maybe you should call an emergency UN council meeting.
And yes, grammar corrections. If you're trying to sound intelligent, at least try and make sure you are using the proper grammar. It's only courteous.
Doesn't say a whole lot for you either, as you are here in the thread. I guess you think your opinion is somehow superior.
Original Stikman wrote...
Okay, so... 16 pages in and I think I have summarized the main arguments for Snap Freeze. They are categorized below
Snap Freeze, as a Primer:
This argument looks at snap freeze as a reliable primer. Priming every 2.5 to 3.5 seconds, depending on the users mods and loadout. It does roughly 1850 damage when caused by an explosion that also takes the full six points in rank, and also with the 10% debuff. Seems like a good reason that makes this power amazing right?
Eh...
Looking at it vs. the Kroldier
Inferno grenades can take up to a 9 m radius, go through, and prime for a rough 1650 (i don'thave the numbers on me) FE against armor assuming the detonator is a rank 6 power. The kroldier also has a 30% boost to power damage from fortification, which will allow him to surpass the Batsol's inferno grenade, in DOT. With a 5m radius and maxed damage inferno grenade, the DOT will surpass that of the Snap Freeze Explosion by the time its ready to be used again. When another grenade is thrown, it will stack.
Inferno grenades also synergize with incendiary ammo and cause massive amounts of damage, which also make for it being a much more effective primer.
Snap Freeze as a Debuffer:
As a debuffer, Snap Freeze will net you an extra 10% damage taken and weaken armor. Pretty nice deal, eh?
Looking at it vs. Recon Mine
Considering that Recon Mine has a 9m readius, debuffs enemies by 35%, can be detonated to take out mooks, outright, and won't trigger a massive cooldown for the Drell infiltrator, Recon Mine takes the cake. Recon mine can also "go through walls," and stagger bosses.
The arm time can be a bit long, but as a debuffer, recon mine takes the cake. The debuff abilities can also be compared to Warp, proximity mine, and even biotic orbs. All of them have much higher debuffing properties.
What about weaken armor?
Considering, at higher difficulties, most effective players will already have armor negating mods and/or ammo consumables. This is negligble for the most part.
Snap Freeze as Crowd Control
Snap Freeze doesn't reliably stagger armored units. They just take the icing to the face. At higher difficulties, the Crowd Control aspects of Snap Freeze are lost, especially on later waves.
Snap Freeze as a Co-Op Power
This seems to be a large focal point: When conjoined with a reliable detonator, Snap Freeze becomes "beastly."
Why?
If it takes two people to take down a mob as fast a single, better, kit can, why is this a good thing? Whats the purpose of having two people do a one-man job? Not only that, but if you insist on taking two people, aren't there much more effective teams out there (Proximity mine and Arc Grenades come to mind)?
Where does that leave the Paladin?
Ah yes, the pally. Without Snap Freeze, he is just a rolling, 250 more shields holding, Shield weilding Salarian Engineer.
Snap Freeze is a requirement on this guy if you plan on taking him out. But don't expect him to well if he strays too far from his tech buddies. On his own (which happens a lot in games when people stray, and they will stray), the paladin won't have the same amount of "oomf" as people will make him out to have, and snap freeze is a part of that.
upinya slayin wrote...
horangi88 wrote...
Original Stikman wrote...
Saints944 wrote...
Causing fire one thread at a time. Might what to use snap freeze for that
Now that I think of it; I don't even remember when was the last time I use the Paladin in gold.
aside from ashen earth, I haven't seen anyone willingly taking a paladin into gold or platinum.
Lol
lightswitch wrote...
First of all, great job ignoring my post at the end of page 15. 1000 sustained DPS to armor from powers alone just doesn't jive with your worldview, better to pretend it's not real I guess.
So let me get this straight: because Snap Freeze doesn't debuff as well as Recon Mine, and doesn't do DoT like Inferno Grenades, it's a lackluster power? Essentially saying that because it can't outperform two of the games best powers at the same time it sucks? Wha'?
But the really, really bizarre part is that you tried to compare Snap Freeze as a primer to Inferno Grenades, but then proceeded to talk about damage over time.
As a primer, Snap Freeze blows Incendiary Grenades out of the water. It's not even close. Snap Freeze explosions do more damage to armor, over twice as much damage to every other defense, and it's not dependent on Grenade Capacity.
But let's entertain your little fantasy for a moment. It's really hard to compare the two powers because one runs on a CD and the other is a grenade. The only way the power damage from Incendiary Grenades actually keeps up with the Paladins combos is against armor and by stacking grenades on top of each, in which case you're going to run out really fast. Narida claims Incendiaries do 835 DPS to armor (with a full gren damage/power damage spec), which as I detailed in my post at the end of page 15, is actually pretty much the same as what the Paladin is capable of with power comboing.
Also, if you're going to spec into Fortification on the KroSol you're probably not going to have all six evos in Carnage so your Fire Explosions are going to be doing less than the 1680 damage to armor a normal 6+6 fire explosion would do. Also, against shields, health, and barriers, a Paladin easily outpaces the KroSol for power damage, it's not even close because the DoT to shields/health is only around 375 damage per second and the explosions only do around 840 damage...
Try again maybe?
Modifié par Original Stikman, 19 mars 2013 - 06:27 .
xtorma wrote...
DJMetaverse wrote...
This thread is the highlight of Stikman's year. He gets to think he is solving first world problems apparently. Because snap freeze is a huge issue to be discussed. Maybe you should call an emergency UN council meeting.
And yes, grammar corrections. If you're trying to sound intelligent, at least try and make sure you are using the proper grammar. It's only courteous.
Doesn't say a whole lot for you either, as you are here in the thread. I guess you think your opinion is somehow superior.
Original Stikman wrote...
lightswitch wrote...
First of all, great job ignoring my post at the end of page 15. 1000 sustained DPS to armor from powers alone just doesn't jive with your worldview, better to pretend it's not real I guess.
So let me get this straight: because Snap Freeze doesn't debuff as well as Recon Mine, and doesn't do DoT like Inferno Grenades, it's a lackluster power? Essentially saying that because it can't outperform two of the games best powers at the same time it sucks? Wha'?
But the really, really bizarre part is that you tried to compare Snap Freeze as a primer to Inferno Grenades, but then proceeded to talk about damage over time.
As a primer, Snap Freeze blows Incendiary Grenades out of the water. It's not even close. Snap Freeze explosions do more damage to armor, over twice as much damage to every other defense, and it's not dependent on Grenade Capacity.
But let's entertain your little fantasy for a moment. It's really hard to compare the two powers because one runs on a CD and the other is a grenade. The only way the power damage from Incendiary Grenades actually keeps up with the Paladins combos is against armor and by stacking grenades on top of each, in which case you're going to run out really fast. Narida claims Incendiaries do 835 DPS to armor (with a full gren damage/power damage spec), which as I detailed in my post at the end of page 15, is actually pretty much the same as what the Paladin is capable of with power comboing.
Also, if you're going to spec into Fortification on the KroSol you're probably not going to have all six evos in Carnage so your Fire Explosions are going to be doing less than the 1680 damage to armor a normal 6+6 fire explosion would do. Also, against shields, health, and barriers, a Paladin easily outpaces the KroSol for power damage, it's not even close because the DoT to shields/health is only around 375 damage per second and the explosions only do around 840 damage...
Try again maybe?
Actually, i stated that both inferno grenades and snap freeze, in the priming situation, have reliable detonators (say... an overload). I was not talking about self-detonations.
With 6 ammo packs and grenade capacity, you really shouldn't be running out of grenades... so its not too much of a factor for most situations.
Modifié par lightswitch, 19 mars 2013 - 06:33 .
buff your weapon damage on shots in between, and c) do 10% more damage overall
Modifié par tyhw, 19 mars 2013 - 06:31 .
lightswitch wrote...
Original Stikman wrote...
lightswitch wrote...
First of all, great job ignoring my post at the end of page 15. 1000 sustained DPS to armor from powers alone just doesn't jive with your worldview, better to pretend it's not real I guess.
So let me get this straight: because Snap Freeze doesn't debuff as well as Recon Mine, and doesn't do DoT like Inferno Grenades, it's a lackluster power? Essentially saying that because it can't outperform two of the games best powers at the same time it sucks? Wha'?
But the really, really bizarre part is that you tried to compare Snap Freeze as a primer to Inferno Grenades, but then proceeded to talk about damage over time.
As a primer, Snap Freeze blows Incendiary Grenades out of the water. It's not even close. Snap Freeze explosions do more damage to armor, over twice as much damage to every other defense, and it's not dependent on Grenade Capacity.
But let's entertain your little fantasy for a moment. It's really hard to compare the two powers because one runs on a CD and the other is a grenade. The only way the power damage from Incendiary Grenades actually keeps up with the Paladins combos is against armor and by stacking grenades on top of each, in which case you're going to run out really fast. Narida claims Incendiaries do 835 DPS to armor (with a full gren damage/power damage spec), which as I detailed in my post at the end of page 15, is actually pretty much the same as what the Paladin is capable of with power comboing.
Also, if you're going to spec into Fortification on the KroSol you're probably not going to have all six evos in Carnage so your Fire Explosions are going to be doing less than the 1680 damage to armor a normal 6+6 fire explosion would do. Also, against shields, health, and barriers, a Paladin easily outpaces the KroSol for power damage, it's not even close because the DoT to shields/health is only around 375 damage per second and the explosions only do around 840 damage...
Try again maybe?
Actually, i stated that both inferno grenades and snap freeze, in the priming situation, have reliable detonators (say... an overload). I was not talking about self-detonations.
With 6 ammo packs and grenade capacity, you really shouldn't be running out of grenades... so its not too much of a factor for most situations.
Oh. Well in that case Snap Freeze crushes Incendiary Grenades easily, even assuming the KroSol can spam them without running out as much as the Paladin can spam Snap Freeze (hint: not gonna happen). Much higher quality explosions and bigger priming area. If the Paladin doesn't have to worry about the CD from the detonator he can pretty much count on doing 2000 damage every 2.5 seconds, and that's not including the damage from the detonator power.
which seems a lot better than a 15m cone
tyhw wrote...
Snap Freeze + Overload is far superior to Inferno grenades+ overload, or Arc grenades + Overload, or Flamer + Overload. On Gold (because Platinum is a boring, dumb difficulty). Except possibly against Reapers, with their high health values, though I'm on the fence on this one.
Why? SF CEs do double damage to health and shields as well, meaning that SF+Overload, with 3 explosions, will wipe an entire spawn. The lower damage to health means using arc grenades, flamer, or overload will not reliably kill everything in the spawn. Inferno grenades or flamer will accomplish this as well, eventually, but SF+ Overload is instant death. You don't have to wait for DoT ticks. Against bosses, the higher damage of the base power (flamer, inferno grenade) is canceled out by the fact that you can't get a second FE on the boss without letting the incendiary tick end. The CE from SF will a) happen every cooldown,
Modifié par Original Stikman, 19 mars 2013 - 06:38 .
to stikman: every time.Mumba1511 wrote...
When I play itOriginal Stikman wrote...
When was the last time you saw a paladin and thought... "yeah... this guy will do real well."
Modifié par thyrandomninja, 19 mars 2013 - 06:37 .
Original Stikman wrote...
tyhw wrote...
Snap Freeze + Overload is far superior to Inferno grenades+ overload, or Arc grenades + Overload, or Flamer + Overload. On Gold (because Platinum is a boring, dumb difficulty). Except possibly against Reapers, with their high health values, though I'm on the fence on this one.
Why? SF CEs do double damage to health and shields as well, meaning that SF+Overload, with 3 explosions, will wipe an entire spawn. The lower damage to health means using arc grenades, flamer, or overload will not reliably kill everything in the spawn. Inferno grenades or flamer will accomplish this as well, eventually, but SF+ Overload is instant death. You don't have to wait for DoT ticks. Against bosses, the higher damage of the base power (flamer, inferno grenade) is canceled out by the fact that you can't get a second FE on the boss without letting the incendiary tick end. The CE from SF will a) happen every cooldown,
so wait.. 3 explosions... so at its fastest we are looking at 7.5 seconds??
You could just throw two inferno grenades + an overload.... or three within that time
tyhw wrote...
Original Stikman wrote...
tyhw wrote...
Snap Freeze + Overload is far superior to Inferno grenades+ overload, or Arc grenades + Overload, or Flamer + Overload. On Gold (because Platinum is a boring, dumb difficulty). Except possibly against Reapers, with their high health values, though I'm on the fence on this one.
Why? SF CEs do double damage to health and shields as well, meaning that SF+Overload, with 3 explosions, will wipe an entire spawn. The lower damage to health means using arc grenades, flamer, or overload will not reliably kill everything in the spawn. Inferno grenades or flamer will accomplish this as well, eventually, but SF+ Overload is instant death. You don't have to wait for DoT ticks. Against bosses, the higher damage of the base power (flamer, inferno grenade) is canceled out by the fact that you can't get a second FE on the boss without letting the incendiary tick end. The CE from SF will a) happen every cooldown,
so wait.. 3 explosions... so at its fastest we are looking at 7.5 seconds??
You could just throw two inferno grenades + an overload.... or three within that time
Ah, now I see why you think SF + Overload sucks. SF+Overload gives you 3 explosions, 1 for each enemy overload hits.
tyhw wrote...
Original Stikman wrote...
tyhw wrote...
Snap Freeze + Overload is far superior to Inferno grenades+ overload, or Arc grenades + Overload, or Flamer + Overload. On Gold (because Platinum is a boring, dumb difficulty). Except possibly against Reapers, with their high health values, though I'm on the fence on this one.
Why? SF CEs do double damage to health and shields as well, meaning that SF+Overload, with 3 explosions, will wipe an entire spawn. The lower damage to health means using arc grenades, flamer, or overload will not reliably kill everything in the spawn. Inferno grenades or flamer will accomplish this as well, eventually, but SF+ Overload is instant death. You don't have to wait for DoT ticks. Against bosses, the higher damage of the base power (flamer, inferno grenade) is canceled out by the fact that you can't get a second FE on the boss without letting the incendiary tick end. The CE from SF will a) happen every cooldown,
so wait.. 3 explosions... so at its fastest we are looking at 7.5 seconds??
You could just throw two inferno grenades + an overload.... or three within that time
Ah, now I see why you think SF + Overload sucks. SF+Overload gives you 3 explosions, 1 for each enemy overload hits.
upinya slayin wrote...
remember that SF explosions do twice the damage of FEs cause its glitched
Retour en haut
