147 réponses à ce sujet

[Enigmatick]

Melca36 wrote...

I'll take CD Projekt seriously  when they eventually realize there are female gamers who want to play FEMALE characters.

And you'll get that in their new game Cyberpunk 2077

[Chromie]

Dragon XIX wrote...

King Cousland wrote...

However, CD Projekt are laying the foundations for the next generation of RPGs, and BioWare should take a few leaves out of their book and adapt them to BioWare's own unique style.

Like set protagonists?

Bioware games already have that. Shepard and Hawke are set characters.

[Nefla]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Nefla wrote...

2 dialogue options instead of 6.

This is a myth. The wheel has as many - or sometimes more - options than the list responses did. Some criticisms might be true, but this is not.

I believe he's talking about how ME3 did away with the neutral option for Shepard and only allowed paragon and renegade answers. BioWare said they did it so people would be forced to make choices and not just sit on the fence, but many players didn't like the removal.

Yep, also in the vast majority of conversations in ME3 you don't even have an investigate option let alone 3 investigate options like in the first 2 games. I had a longer conversation with Jenkins than any character in ME3.

[DarthCaine]

If someone does come up with innovation, it won't be Bioware.

Their current trend is looking at successful games (like Skyrim for DA3 and CoD for ME3) with their only interest being high sales

Modifié par DarthCaine, 19 mars 2013 - 01:33 .

[mickey111]

It's not their current trend, it's what they've always done. Long before Skyrim Bioware dabbled in the strategy and third person shooter genre before making an RPG in the forgotten realms setting which they named Baldurs Gate. Diablo was the most popular RPG and LotR was the most popular fantasy just a short while before Baldurs Gate 1s development began, so I'm going to guess that these helped inspire Bioware to get into RPGs.

Modifié par mickey111, 19 mars 2013 - 01:47 .

[BeatoSama]

DA2 wasn't innovative?
Granted you may not like the game very much but its certainly pretty different from most other fantasy games on the market.

Modifié par BeatoSama, 19 mars 2013 - 01:44 .

[The Elder King]

BeatoSama wrote...

DA2 wasn't innovative?
Granted you may not like the game very much but its certainly pretty different from most other fantasy games on the market.

The only thing that could be considered "innovative" in DA2 is the story, that doesn't follow the high fantast common plot "save the world from evil forces". But DA2's plot, while uncommon, it's not something new. 
I might miss something else in the game that was innovative, so I'd like you to point out what was innovative in DA2.
I want to point out that DA games are fairly different from other fantasy games, thanks to the tactical pause and the party-based gameplay (which is rare in the current market: as far as I know only some kickstarters project like PE are using this approach), and the focus on companions and romance, but it's something deeply rooted in Bioware's games.

[BeatoSama]

Obviously I meant that DA2 was innovative for a game (for which this kind of storytelling is novel and original). If we are referring to innovation in general then no it isn't particularly innovative but neither is The Witcher.

Modifié par BeatoSama, 19 mars 2013 - 02:51 .

[Wulfram]

There's lots of room for good innovation in RPGs. Far too much stuff exists because RPGs are expected to do that rather than for any strong reason of supporting good gameplay or story.

But I expect DA3 will be rather conservative and try to get the core fan base back on board, rather than look to push any dramatic changes from the RPG formula.

[Fast Jimmy]

Wulfram wrote...

There's lots of room for good innovation in RPGs. Far too much stuff exists because RPGs are expected to do that rather than for any strong reason of supporting good gameplay or story.

But I expect DA3 will be rather conservative and try to get the core fan base back on board, rather than look to push any dramatic changes from the RPG formula.

If you ask me, the standard RPG formula, depending on what you mean by that, is becoming the marginalized minority in RPG games. I mean, just look at the great many JRPGs there. There is no non-combat skills. No way to avoid combat. No differing ways to build your party. No ways to role-play different characters. No ways to use the environment to your advantage. And, despite JRPGs getting into their worst slump ever, it seems that many other RPGs are hopping right in the boat with them, including Bioware. Meanwhile, other genres are taking some of the most stripped down elements from RPGs (leveling, loot-type equipment, "choice" that gets boiled down to saying yes two/three different ways) and making that the standard for all games. 

So seeing an RPG actually try and BE an RPG is a truly radical step. Skyrim offered all of the old-school RPG mechanics, with lots of skills that can be used outside combat, but they tied it with nearly zero choice, zero character development and extremely isolated stories. The Witcher gives us lots of different ways to experience the story, but with only one class (granted, a class with lots of flexibility, but the point remains) and one set character.

Not since DA:O have we seen a game let you make your own character, give you chances to define that character, give you choices that result in different stories and outcomes, have a robust inventory/equipment system, have a complex leveling system that can support a HUGE variety of game styles and allow us to build non-combat skills for characters that can be used to resolve quests without slaying a dozen random mooks (granted, this, as well as all of the above mentioned elements, could be improved greatly, but were instead scrapped across the board). 

So... if Bioware really wanted to be innovative, they would continue down the path of innovation RPGs of the past took, instead of stripping out every element possible and then making an action game with dialogue choices and calling it an innovative RPG.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 19 mars 2013 - 03:45 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

I continue to be surprised that the Witcher games are at all popular given their shockingly dreadful combat system.

And Jimmy's right - the radical path available to BioWare is to do what they used to do, which is let us design and play our own character within a detailed narrative. No other big developer is doing that; I'd like BioWare to return to it.

[cJohnOne]

I think new changes to the dialogue wheel are innovations to games. I don't know how important they are though. The reactivity of characters would be a nice improvement. Having a story driven Bioware game with more exploration would be an improvement.

[Dominari]

I'm all for innovation, just not innovation for its own sake. I also want a little more continuity than what we had with DA:O to DA2. Maybe smooth out the ninja turtal side scroller feel and flesh out a secondary skill set (side class) but otherwise I would like to see DA:I remain a DA game.

Then bring in the innovation and new outlook to a different game; maybe something in the urban fantasy genre.

[InfinitePaths]

Melca36 wrote...

I'll take CD Projekt seriously  when they eventually realize there are female gamers who want to play FEMALE characters.

It's not like 60% of the witcher fanbase are female...
If you don't play a female that doesn't mean it's not for females.
It's like saying that resident evil games with only Jill are for females only

[Trikormadenadon]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

daaaav wrote...

Dragon XIX wrote...

King Cousland wrote...

However, CD Projekt are laying the foundations for the next generation of RPGs, and BioWare should take a few leaves out of their book and adapt them to BioWare's own unique style.

Like set protagonists?

I honestly enjoyed playing a set character both in The Witcher and Mass Effect. I'm not a major fan of Elder Scrolls character development (there isn't any) and much prefer having a foundation on which to project my own persona. I will say that Skyrim has the most impressive game world in terms of music, graphics and style that I have ever seen, but I cannot enjoy the game itself because as impressive as it is, it just feels empty with lackluster story telling and characterisation. 

Personally, I wouldn't define Mass Effect as having a set protagonist. There was a base character from which to build upon, like there was with Hawke in DA2, but you had a pretty decent level of control over the character. Plus, you could pick their gender and looks.

To me, The Witcher is a series with a set protagonist because you have absolutely no control over Geralt's appearance. You can't play a female Witcher, you can't change Geralt's hair, you can't do anything. That's part of the reason I've never held much interest in The Witcher games.

I don't know if BioWare would go down that route. I could potential see them making a set character that we have no control over at all. Of removing the character creation screen from their games, or at least one of their games, completely. I hope they don't, but it's always a possibility.

The only reason the Witcher is that way is because the games are based on the series of novels and thus it makes no sense to have character creation in the games. Due to this fact, the game did not suffer for not have character creation.

[Trikormadenadon]

Melca36 wrote...

I'll take CD Projekt seriously  when they eventually realize there are female gamers who want to play FEMALE characters.

So you want them to call the author or the novels that the game is taken from and to demand that the author change his Witcher character to be able to polymorph into any form of his choosing so you can play a female Witcher?

The Witcher games come from a series of novels and that is the only reason why there is no character customization in those games, has nothing to do with CD Project Red choosing not to have female protagonists....

[Trikormadenadon]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

@Melca36


They know, but their current IP (The Witcher) doesn't work without Geralt.

Wait for CyberPunk.

This. I would be VERY surprised if there is no character creation at the start of this game...

[Fiery Phoenix]

I don't see DA3 being any more innovative than anything that's come out in the past few years. I just want a game that's worth that $60, that's all.

Melca36 wrote...

I'll take CD Projekt seriously when they eventually realize there are female gamers who want to play FEMALE characters.

Good point.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 19 mars 2013 - 06:24 .

[Trikormadenadon]

Sejborg wrote...

They were onto something with the Origin system. Too bad they didn't like it themselves.

They should have looked at ways to explore that further instead of trashing the one thing that made the franchise really stand out from all the others.

Agreed.  Also, they should not have made combat more action based. Or at least, if they wanted it more action based they should have made the use of skills on console better. I find it too limiting in DA2 to have only 6 buttons for skill use, espacially when playing a mage in DA2. In DA:O this was not as big a deal as combat was much slower so pausing to pick skills to use did not disrupt the flow of combat, but in DA2 having to use the wheel all the time messes up the flow of combat.

I guess this might just be a limitation of the console due to not having access to a keyboard, but if they could figure out a way to have more quick button on a controller the faster combat in DA2 would not seem so cumbersome.

They could probably fix this if they just added auto-attack back in like it was in DA:O, that way you could focus on using skill/spells and let the game worry about normal attacks after you cvhoose a target.  Then again, this might be why the comabt in DA:O seemed slower....not sure what is better.

[Trikormadenadon]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

I'll take CD Projekt seriously  when they eventually realize there are female gamers who want to play FEMALE characters.

It's not like 60% of the witcher fanbase are female...
If you don't play a female that doesn't mean it's not for females.
It's like saying that resident evil games with only Jill are for females only

LOL. I wish I read this before I posted my comments to this post....

[Fredward]

Innovation should never be done purely for innovations sake. It should be a by-product of some development decision not a goal in and of itself.

[LinksOcarina]

What kind of innovation are we even discussing here? I have seen nothing but a mish-mash of ideas cobbled together regarding gameplay, story, characters and design.

I think you need to pin down innovation first in terms of the what can be brought to the table. In reality, I feel, the answer is nothing, other than worlds and stories.

Thankfully Dragon Age so far has that covered well.