232 réponses à ce sujet

[Dude_in_the_Room]

This might have been asked before, but I wasn't around to see it.

First we see a gigantic Reaper.  It's huge....how the hell do we handle something that size?

Then we talk to one...and we cannot fathom their existence.  THEN, not only did they destory an ancient population....but enslaved it as well. 

Not only that....but theres lots of them.  Then in ME3...theres soldier type enemies they've created.  THEEENNN...they enslave ppl again.



Then....we get the starchild and the background.

Was the feat to big to be able to create a worthy enough ending?

I'm not meaning to start any arguments...I honestly just want to know how many, if any, others think that they bit off more than they could chew.

Modifié par Dude_in_the_Room, 19 mars 2013 - 11:12 .

[samurai crusade]

No. The problem was time, and being forced to spit out a game to meet EAs financial table

[Wayning_Star]

well, no, not really OP, they just overunderestimated their fans..

[Wayning_Star]

scyphozoa wrote...

Yeah, I do think they wrote themselves into a corner. Having such powerful godlike enemies means that shep himself had to become a god himself to defeat them. Too much divinity, not enough hard science fiction.

the only godlike enemy is mother nature it's self..so that's problematic at best...hence the greenish beam'n stuff..

[NeonFlux117]

Nope. The problem was time and the departure of Drew Karpyshyn. Also, EA's buisness model taking precedence over quality of final product. Furthermore, having Casey Hudson directly involved in the creative process hindered the final product.

Did Bioware bite off more than they can chew with Mass Effect? No.

Did the ME3 writing team and Casey Hudson bite off more than they could chew with ME3's narrative? Absolutely.

[Wayning_Star]

some fans still grumpy over canon vs cannons..lol

[Ieldra]

@OP:
Yes, but not in the way you think. I think ME3 could have been an absolutely awesome game redefining storytelling in video games with one year more development time. The problem was Bioware had to resolve too many little stories in too little time. Thus, autodialogue, thus, sloppy handling of the endings, thus, contrived drama with little grounding in in-world logic, thus, lack of depth in character conversations, thus, ignored character story arcs and cut off romances. No unifying vision because there was just no time to oversee everything.

The ME trilogy as a whole still redefines storytelling in video games, and ME3 is still a great game for me. But seeing what it could've been without those time and resource constraints, that hurts.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

I sorta fantasize about how maybe they worked really hard on most of the game and finished it lightning fast and then got to the ending and spent like a year trying to figure out something, lol.

And then *blurp*

Modifié par Dude_in_the_Room, 19 mars 2013 - 11:26 .

[mumba]

No, the only problem was the story that was written as they went along.

[Wayning_Star]

All those Sheps out here and we didn't even notice the OP spelt it "Biowar"..rofl

[Wayning_Star]

Mumba1511 wrote...

No, the only problem was the story that was written as they went along.

yeah, growing up is hard to do...

[snakeboy86]

No, more like it proved, no matter what you do, you can't make everyone happy

[Dude_in_the_Room]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Nope. The problem was time and the departure of Drew Karpyshyn.

Why did he leave, anyway?

Was a reason ever given?

[Dr_Extrem]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Nope. The problem was time and the departure of Drew Karpyshyn.

Why did he leave, anyway?

Was a reason ever given?

he moved to a different city and helped the swtor writing team.

[NeonFlux117]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Nope. The problem was time and the departure of Drew Karpyshyn.

Why did he leave, anyway?

Was a reason ever given?

Wasn't it because he wanted to work on his books? But I don't know, something had to happen for Drew to abandon ME. The dude wrote ME1 and ME2. I can't see him being all like "Well I gotta go. It's been a great ride but I don't want to finish my story, so see ya". Something else had to have happend. It's strange to say the least.

[Wayning_Star]

are 'games' a kind of test?

[Ridwan]

snakeboy86 wrote...

No, more like it proved, no matter what you do, you can't make everyone happy

People don't like kids that save the day in games nor in films, people don't like dues ex machina either. Combining them doesn't work. Nobody liked that kid. You can't make everyone happy true, but that ending didn't try to make anyone happy, instead it just pissed people off so much they had to make an EC and even a paid DLC to try and explain why the ****** kid works and people still hate it, and rightly so.

Also the Reapers were never unbeatable, Sovereign had an entire Geth armada with him in the first game, otherwise we would've smoked him with combined firepower. And in ME 3 we took down quite a few Reapers too, until Admiral derp decided during the final battle that the best way to fight them was to shoot randomly and hope you got a lucky shot instead of concentrating the fire.

[AlexMBrennan]

Not really - the problem is just execution.

Prior to Arrival, there was plenty of time to deal with the Reapers. Instead, they wasted ME2 on introducing a dozen new characters only to kill them off immediately and started ME3 with a full scale invasion (gotta have epic space battles or the sheeple won't buy the game) which just doesn't work.

Also, iPad sucks.

And in ME 3 we took down quite a few Reapers too, until Admiral derp decided during the final battle that the best way to fight them was to shoot randomly and hope you got a lucky shot instead of concentrating the fire.

On Rannoch, it took ridiculously accurate concentrated fire from an entire fleet to take down a single Reaper, so we'd need at least a thousand dreadnoughts. We have less than one hundred. 

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 19 mars 2013 - 12:04 .

[Dean_the_Young]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Nope. The problem was time and the departure of Drew Karpyshyn.

Why did he leave, anyway?

Was a reason ever given?

Wasn't it because he wanted to work on his books? But I don't know, something had to happen for Drew to abandon ME. The dude wrote ME1 and ME2. I can't see him being all like "Well I gotta go. It's been a great ride but I don't want to finish my story, so see ya". Something else had to have happend. It's strange to say the least.

I believe he went to help out on SWTOR, actually.

As for finishing his story, that was the crux of the problem: he (and all the other writers) never had a gameplan for finishing it in the first place. They were trying for autonomy and not tying their hands, which is how we got such a departure as we did in ME2, but the cost of that was, well, ME2. A game that worked fine as a stand-alone, but made a mess of the trilogy by ignoring the idea of a central premise for a bunch of unrelated characters, most of whome were irrelevant to the plotlines and almost all of whome were killable (and thus could not be critical to later plots).

It's not even 'others failed to continue where Drew left off': Drew helped write the series into a corner that ME3 was always going to have to claw out of.

[Wayning_Star]

M25105 wrote...

snakeboy86 wrote...

No, more like it proved, no matter what you do, you can't make everyone happy

People don't like kids that save the day in games nor in films, people don't like dues ex machina either. Combining them doesn't work. Nobody liked that kid. You can't make everyone happy true, but that ending didn't try to make anyone happy, instead it just pissed people off so much they had to make an EC and even a paid DLC to try and explain why the ****** kid works and people still hate it, and rightly so.

Also the Reapers were never unbeatable, Sovereign had an entire Geth armada with him in the first game, otherwise we would've smoked him with combined firepower. And in ME 3 we took down quite a few Reapers too, until Admiral derp decided during the final battle that the best way to fight them was to shoot randomly and hope you got a lucky shot instead of concentrating the fire.

how can the kid save the dues ex machine when fire power isn't secured at the entire MEU, that what's the problem in the first place? This is  one of those unfortunate instances in billions of years that shooting the tube is only a patchwork operation. The crucible is the instant gratification gizmo, not the catalyst..who's just another victim of circumstances crafted of Leviathan/organics version of the best idea: Why do yourself what can be done my machine?

Organic sentience in the MEU are in 'limp mode'..lol

[Wayning_Star]

[/quote]I believe he went to help out on SWTOR, actually.

As for finishing his story, that was the crux of the problem: he (and all the other writers) never had a gameplan for finishing it in the first place. They were trying for autonomy and not tying their hands, which is how we got such a departure as we did in ME2, but the cost of that was, well, ME2. A game that worked fine as a stand-alone, but made a mess of the trilogy by ignoring the idea of a central premise for a bunch of unrelated characters, most of whome were irrelevant to the plotlines and almost all of whome were killable (and thus could not be critical to later plots).

It's not even 'others failed to continue where Drew left off': Drew helped write the series into a corner that ME3 was always going to have to claw out of.

[/quote]

I'm kind of skeptical about other non writers having internal knowledge of who's didn't do what and when inside the game/story efforts. Many mods quibble at such speculation.

It appears fans are 'clawing out of' if anyone are. Many just hope to rewrite/reverse engineer history to suit any given fancy.

[Wayning_Star]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Not really - the problem is just execution.

Prior to Arrival, there was plenty of time to deal with the Reapers. Instead, they wasted ME2 on introducing a dozen new characters only to kill them off immediately and started ME3 with a full scale invasion (gotta have epic space battles or the sheeple won't buy the game) which just doesn't work.

Also, iPad sucks.

And in ME 3 we took down quite a few Reapers too, until Admiral derp decided during the final battle that the best way to fight them was to shoot randomly and hope you got a lucky shot instead of concentrating the fire.

On Rannoch, it took ridiculously accurate concentrated fire from an entire fleet to take down a single Reaper, so we'd need at least a thousand dreadnoughts. We have less than one hundred. 

Enter the Ninja Leviathans!!

[Dean_the_Young]

As for the OP, I would say yes, they did... and that's alright, because at the end of the day Mass Effect remains what it started as: an experimental project aiming at a continuation-RPG trilogy.

It's easy to point at various other games for a one-on-one comparison, but no one else has ever really attempted a connection between games like ME1-3 did. Even The Witcher 2, held up as a paragon of branching narrative role playing, doesn't come close to even trying the sort of carry-over import impacts that the ME trilogy did. It's easy to rely on hindsight and say 'you did it wrong', but while there were certainly some problems that could have, should have, been recognized in advance (ME2's premise of the suicide mission, killable characters and all), others can very much be forgiven on the grounds of them trying to learn it as they went. Trying to figure how to work in character returns, for example.

The ME trilogy was a trailblazer, and part of blazing trails is being the one to break brush and get nasty The trilogy did have elements of reach exceeding grasp, but that's hardly a fatal sin..

[Helios969]

Mumba1511 wrote...

No, the only problem was the story that was written as they went along.

Absolutely this.  The writers never had a clearly defined path back in ME1...just a hodgepodge of ideas.  It was compounded in ME2.  There were too many cooks in the kitchen as the saying goes.  It didn't help that MP was incorporated, but I suppose the extra revenue is simply necessary for them to continue.

I do feel they evolved from game to game on the writing front with ME3 offering some fantastic story arcs.  Rannoch and Tuchunka just blew me away, and the entire final game had me in its grip right up to Citadel: Return.  I felt it was simply the anticlimatic nature to the endings that left me so disatisfied than what they were trying to convey.  It's the disappointment more than poor writing and plot holes since we've seen much of that before.  If ME3 had resolved itself much in the way ME2 did with the collector base I have no doubt it would have gotten the positive attention in largely deserves.