24 réponses à ce sujet

[Arkalezth]

I've been having this annoying bug lately. At first I thought (and was told by someone more knowledgeable than me) it was module-specific, but I'm not sure of that anymore, and I guess it doesn't hurt to ask for a second or third opinion. It goes like this:

Sometimes, when I'm walking around, my character suddenly stops in his tracks and a companion starts a conversation with me. Not a plot related conversation or anything like that, just what I'd get if I right-clicked on the companion and chose the "talk" option. This usually happens when walking through certain points, what makes me think that it might be caused by some sort of trigger in those areas, but it's not always the case (i.e., I had a companion in a module who was initiating conversations constantly, in every area. I couldn't walk three paces without him interrupting me.).

I think - I repeat: THINK - the only way for me to stay away from the bug is to never manually start a convo with a companion. However, this might mean missing some content in many modules, and I'm not even sure it's a reliable workaround.

So, is this a known bug? Any way to fix or prevent it, other than just being silent to companions?

P.S.: I've seen it in three modules so far, and I had actually played two of them in the past, without any issue. In fact, I've played the game for four years and I don't recall ever running into this bug until a couple of weeks ago.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 19 mars 2013 - 12:14 .

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Anything in your override?

[Arkalezth]

Yes, but nothing that hasn't been in there countless times before. TonyK's AI, and a couple of visual changes that shouldn't affect it.

I was told that conversations were fired with triggers or heartbeats, so I deactivated everything with the word "heartbeat" in the AI, just in case, but that didn't change anything.

The last two times I ran into the bug, I had manually talked to a companion in the previous area. Reloading after that convo kept triggering the bug, but reloading before it and not talking prevented it.

[kevL]

Could try to "reset" TonyK's, at the bottom of each character's Behavior tab. Or "save" behaviors from your good save, and then "load" them when things go wonky.

hm. Those save/load/reset buttons ( IF this is what's going on ) read and write to the NwN database. ( compaisettings.* under MyDocs->NwN2->database folder, 3 files ). You can rename those and let the companion AI rewrite them ...


i'm guessing. The only thing I can see it being is a 'special conversation' call in the associate onPerception script. (that's unlikely tho)

[Arkalezth]

I know how to replicate the bug at one point in this last module, so I've been testing it there. Reseting, and even uninstalling the AI did nothing. I might be wrong, but I doubt it's related to the AI. I just mentioned it in reply to Lugaid's question.

In this particular case, it seems to go like this:

- Area 1: I get attacked by a group of enemies. Then I move to the next area.

- Area 2: Walking a few paces triggers a conversation with one of the companions about the previous fight. If I talk to her manually before reaching this trigger, I get that convo, and then I get a generic float text line from her when I walk up to it.

I observed a similar case in the previous module. There's an area that triggers several float texts from companions (you lead a large party there), but if I had talked to one of them before, I get a generic "cutscene" convo from him. Unlike the first example, this conversation doesn't normally trigger otherwise.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Why don't you contact the module author?

[Arkalezth]

I did. The first time I ran into it was while testing a module, so I first reported it as a bug and figured it was module-specific. It was when I started having the same problem in other modules that I thought about asking here.

[kevL]

Arkalezth wrote...

- Area 1: I get attacked by a group of enemies. Then I move to the next area.

- Area 2: Walking a few paces triggers a conversation with one of the companions about the previous fight.

and it does not bug out...

If I talk to her manually before reaching this trigger, I get that convo, and then I get a generic float text line from her when I walk up to it.

and after that it keeps on bugging out by randomly trying to start conversations ever after?

I observed a similar case in the previous module. There's an area that triggers several float texts from companions (you lead a large party there), but if I had talked to one of them before, I get a generic "cutscene" convo from him. Unlike the first example, this conversation doesn't normally trigger otherwise.

could it be something about that specific generic 'cutscene' that's causing all this?

Are the two modules in the same campaign?
If not ( i guess not ) was your PC exported from one and brought into the other? ie. could it be the PC that is 'bugged'

[Arkalezth]

kevL wrote...

and it does not bug out...

That's how it's supposed to work.

and after that it keeps on bugging out by randomly trying to start conversations ever after?

I can't tell because I reloaded a pre-bug save right after that. But I've had that happen in one of the modules, yes. In any case, nothing should trigger if I've already had the conversation, manually or not.

could it be something about that specific generic 'cutscene' that's causing all this?

Nah, it's not really a cutscene. What I mean is that it's the conversation style with the camera near the characters and the options below, as opposed to the floating text that should have triggered in that particular case (I hope I'm making myself clear).

The bug basically triggers the same convo as if I talked to a companion manually.

Are the two modules in the same campaign?
If not ( i guess not ) was your PC exported from one and brought into the other? ie. could it be the PC that is 'bugged'

One of the modules is stand alone (I deleted every trace of it after finishing it). The other two are in the same series, though they're run as "new module", not "new campaign" (if that makes any difference), and I'm using the same character for both. I don't think it's a case of a character being bugged because I used a different character in the first module, and I reloaded every time I ran into the bug in the other two.

If I can't find a fix, I might try reinstalling the game when I'm finished with this module, but it's not the first time I run into a bug that persists after reinstalls.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 19 mars 2013 - 07:03 .

[kevL]

Arkalezth wrote...

In any case, nothing should trigger if I've already had the conversation, manually or not.

well, here's the rub. You're right it shouldn't; but it's up to the module author/scripter to make sure it doesn't -- that is, the toolset by default won't handle conversations that way, so unless a mod-designer consciously accounts for this, some conversations are going to fire and refire ....

[kevL]

- but that doesn't really account well does it.

[Arkalezth]

What irks me is that, after playing the game for four years, I suddenly get the same strange bug in three modules in a row? Really? I had even played two of them in the past, so it looks like there's something wrong with my game now which wasn't wrong before.

Perhaps you're right, but if it was simply a matter or polishing the module in order to avoid these kinds of bugs, shouldn't I have ran into it at some moment before the last month? It's just too much of a coincidence.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 19 mars 2013 - 07:53 .

[kevL]

yes, and what worries is that if my hypothesis is/was correct, it probably wouldn't matter whether or not you've talked to them before or not ( it would be more consistent than what you're seeing, i think. )

anyway, don't rush to re-install yet imo. keep yer eyes peeled to see if there's a more distinctive pattern

[Tchos]

Can you tell me which modules these are, and in which specific areas you encounter these troubles? I may be able to look at the triggers and the conversations and see if there's something about them that causes this behaviour.

[Arkalezth]

"A Hunt Through the Dark Remastered" and "Lolthanchwi" (sequel to the the former). The other is still in beta.

As I said, I tried to avoid the bug whenever possible (even though I seem to have it right now), so there may be other areas, but I'm positive about these two:

***SPOILERS***

- AHTTDR: Second area on the surface. It's a large outdoors area with a river and a village.
- Lolthanchwi: Upper Side Tunnels, near the transition to the Main Chasm.

[Tchos]

Hmm...I played AHTTDR a few weeks ago, and while I do recall some conversation troubles, I don't recall those in particular. I'll take a look, though.

[kevL]

borrowing Tchos' cue

I found the trigger in the Upper Side Tunnels from the Main Chasm, and i see things that are huh?

if (!Local_int "event_019")...
set Local_int "lol_event_019"


Now i did NOT follow those varnames very far, just did quick searches for them, but it strikes me as a possible change of naming convention in mid-build. Other than this, which i stress may be just my ignorance, the logic I've seen in the dialogs are well done.

In ahtd, however
the companions don't have conversations assigned, except for Ormus whose assigned dialog file does not seem to exist -- and although I have no empirical idea what that leads to, it conceivably leads to a 'generic cutscene' ...


Does that tally so far? (without specific lines of dialog and companion names this is like poking pudding with a pencil tho.)

[Arkalezth]

Yeah, I was going to mention which companions I had the bug with (it happened several companions on the third module, though more often with some of them than with others). As for specific lines, like I explained, they just say whatever they'd say in a normal conversation otherwise.

*** SPOILERS ***

- AHTTD: I don't remember the companion's name. It starts with an "A", and he has some crossbow feats. I got the bug after talking to him in the area preceding the one I mentioned above. The bug is near the entrance. There's a deer and the drow say something like: "Look! A surface monster!"

- Lolthanchwi: I got the bug with Morana. She has a couple of plot conversations at that spot: one after being attacked by shadows in the Main Chasm, and another later on (I can't tell at what moment exactly), when she has a discussion with that companion whose name I don't remember.

[kevL]

well, i'll be brutally honest Ark,

when i start a mod and it has a typo, the dialog lines are placed in quotation marks, and when I ask to be leveled to 10 and it levels me to 16 (probably due to a vagary in the conversation leading me to choose "level 10" twice) ... and Al'kranal is carrying an unidentified rapier ... and a supply kit weighs 30 lb(!), *and* that it doesn't tell me in no uncertain terms that i need to be Drow to enter first and foremost (no readme, and the Vault page only hints at it)


anything could happen. If you get the bug again like it was in the first mod that you mentioned, with the companion almost constantly wanting to chat sometimes.. consider me interested

It was fun loading up a new mod though, haven't done that in a while

[Tchos]

Any bugs aside, kevL, I enjoyed AHTTDR, and would recommend it to others.

(My apologies, Ark -- I haven't yet looked into this, since this computer I'm typing on is not the same as the computer where I play NWN2, and I have a bit of an "out of sight, out of mind" problem. Next time for sure, and I'm glad you stepped in to help, kevL.)

[Arkalezth]

Heh, ok, no problem. I'm trying another mod (speaking to companions every now and then), but I think it has no companion conversation triggers when running around, so it's probably not a good example to test this.

Are you talking about Lolthanchwi (AHTTD is for level 5 and Al'kranal isn't in your party from the beginning)? For the record, I'm pretty sure that the supply kits are supposed to be heavy, in order to restrict resting. AHTTD has a readme; your character should be a male drow, preferably not a cleric or druid (nor a paladin, I suppose).

[kevL]

lolth..

I'm sure the story is fine. but you know what i mean ... troubleshooting is hard enough in a well-crafted design.

[Arkalezth]

Yeah, just saying in case you started playing a female cleric or something.

@Tchos: No problem. It's not as if I was paying you for checking it out.

[Tchos]

Ark: I have looked into it by now. Unfortunately, I left the response I had composed offline back at home, so at the moment I can only give a summary of my findings.

As kevL concluded, the bugs that you found are more likely caused by certain scripting mistakes that happened to be included in two recent modules you've played, and not anything in the game settings themselves or any non-module items you have installed.

I checked the bark about the deer ("A surface monster!") as well as the rest of the event and conversation triggers in that area, and while I didn't find something specific that would definitely have caused what you experienced, I think the way that the author kept track of conversation nodes may have contributed to it.

For instance, trigger "do once" code is being stored on the PC instead of on the trigger, and the trigger gets the PC from GetFirstPC instead of GetEnteringObject, which it then compares to the PC with GetIsPC. Since GetIsPC can return TRUE on a companion in addition to the FirstPC, perhaps a conversation variable was stored incorrectly, causing the wrong node of a forced conversation to fire.

Or if not, it could have been a variable naming change like the one kevL found, or something else. All of the conversations use variables on the PC to determine which node to show, and do not seem to use the journal functions, which I personally find more reliable.

So that's my guess. If I find other things in my offline message that I forgot to mention here, I'll add those later.

[Arkalezth]

Thanks for the reply. Just in case, I'll keep an eye on it the next time I play a module with those kinds of conversation triggers, but the consensus (the module author I firstly asked said the same) seems to be that it's a module-specific bug. I guess I just had bad luck, even though I had never seen that bug the other times I played AHTTD.

Anyway, maybe this thread will at least serve as a reminder to module builders to make sure those triggers are free of bugs.