253 réponses à ce sujet

[Maurader Sackboy]

Luyza wrote ... if you think that Power Transfer is a must over Squad Command, then you probably have no clue about team synergy.

"Squad Command:  All allies within 4 meters do 10% more damage. This bonus does not affect you."

Well I mostly play in PUGs and it's very rare to get any sort of coordination.  I'm not fast enough to keep up with other players and they don't stick near me much.  Even if I specc'd for it most pugs wouldn't think to huddle within 4 meters of me to shoot!

I build on the assumption that I'm on my own. 

Modifié par Maurader Sackboy, 21 mars 2013 - 04:44 .

[megabeast37215]

Heri wrote...

Luyza wrote...

From a POV of long time tank (WoW, TOR & sons): megabeast37215 is right, Heri is wrong.
Tanking 101: The faster stuff dies the better. And if you think that Power Transfer is a must over Squad Command, then you probably have no clue about team synergy.

Well if the faster stuff dies the better, then why would you need a tank, ever? Derp derp.

You guys are still completely failing to comprehend my point that while more DPS is better with a skilled group, the predictability and control that a Juggernaut brings is also useful in a number of circumstances. You're just too stuck in your little platinum speedrunning uber elite worlds to see how a true tanking Juggs can be a better option that a DPS-focused one for average groups.

LOL... for average groups you're better off bring a super elite killer like a GI... because you can't count on scrub morons to kill anything.

I've said this to you like...5 times already... you can kill stuff and tank a beating for the team at the same time. This is what the shield is for... it tanks damage while your shields recharge OR while you use the heavy melee.

Stop being so dense...

[megabeast37215]

Heri wrote...

Fortack wrote...

Heri wrote...

Juggs who spend their time killing trash on plat are bad Juggs. Yes, you can and should bring a ranged weapon for plinking away when no bosses are nearby, but your primary job is getting in bosses' faces and rounding them up.

I think you don't fully comprehend the meaning of "tanking". You can easily have bosses trying to hug you AND make yourself useful in other ways (like shooting stuff).

I'd love to see a video of how long your ass lasts against multiple plat bosses while you do nothing but shoot your gun.

See... you've got it all wrong (still).

It's more like.... how long do Plat bosses last against our weapons in close quarters

Also... AGAIN... this is what the shield is for. Isolating 1-2 bosses away from the crowd while I deal with them.

[Innocent Bystander]

Maurader Sackboy wrote...

Well I mostly play in PUGs and it's very rare to get any sort of coordination.  I'm not fast enough to keep up with other players and they don't stick near me much.  Even if I specc'd for it most pugs wouldn't think to huddle within 4 meters of me to shoot!

I build on the assumption that I'm on my own.  

Agree, in pug it's not that usefull, they rather run to other side of the map and die there.

Heri wrote...

Well if the faster stuff dies the better, then why would you need a tank, ever? Derp derp.

You guys are still completely failing to comprehend my point that while more DPS is better with a skilled group, the predictability and control that a Juggernaut brings is also useful in a number of circumstances. You're just too stuck in your little platinum speedrunning uber elite worlds to see how a true tanking Juggs can be a better option that a DPS-focused one for average groups.

That's the thing, you don't need tank. That's why offensively played Jugg is better, he just draws aggro and tanks in CQC only when needed.
In the second part you're right, for groups that can't kill everything fast enough pure defensive Jugg is probably better. But I'm no elitist (I consider myself slightly above average player) and even for me offensively played Jugg is better choice even in pugs.

[Maurader Sackboy]

I'm on the side of more DPS and less melee but, in one of the rare platinum games I played with some rather elite players I was advised to use melee more. Maybe that's because my best weapon for my Jugg is a Typhoon V and it doesn't kill bosses very fast (compared to the weapons they were all carrying such as a Harrier X).

[drmoose00]

i melee sometimes when I don't need the shields, for the lulz. It is fun watching them ragdoll and killing them a different way. Payback for the elbow/stungun/ear-whop stun-kills that they can dish out.

I could personally care less if it takes 2 more seconds to kill something. I play to have fun, not go as fas as I possibly can.

Modifié par lemon00, 21 mars 2013 - 05:24 .

[Arctican]

Heri, you can certainly take on 4 bosses at a time with a full tank Jugg. However, when your shields are sitting constantly at full health, you got enough shields to retaliate before you need to HM to replenish shields again. Assuming that you took a powerful gun with you, you will wear down the bosses a lot faster than HM and still tank efficiently because you have the shields to do so.

The only times when you can just tank enemies and not care about killing them is for certain objective waves, like 4-point hack or the pizza delivery. There you don't want to kill the enemies or else they might spawn closer to the objectives/teammates. But just tanking with pure HM as the only offense is extending the game needlessly.

[Fortack]

Heri wrote...

Fortack wrote...

Heri wrote...

Juggs who spend their time killing trash on plat are bad Juggs. Yes, you can and should bring a ranged weapon for plinking away when no bosses are nearby, but your primary job is getting in bosses' faces and rounding them up.

I think you don't fully comprehend the meaning of "tanking". You can easily have bosses trying to hug you AND make yourself useful in other ways (like shooting stuff).

I'd love to see a video of how long your ass lasts against multiple plat bosses while you do nothing but shoot your gun.

The point of "tanking" is to draw attention. The moment enemies marked you as their target that job is done. Now you can go somewhere safe and have those enemies waste their shots against walls while you kill enemies who haven't marked your Juggy as their target. Thus you're successfully removing multiple enemies from the fight (since they are wasting their time trying to hurt you) AND you are helping the team by killing others.

I think most people rather have a Jug distracting a couple Banshee and an Atlas (so they don't have to worry about em) AND, at the same time, have someone watching their back - like killing a Hunter sneaking up behind one of your buddies.

[Daimien 06660]

Arctican wrote...

Juggs should HM when:

1) Phantoms then kill with gun
2) Get the bosses' attention onto you then kill with gun
3) Husks since they die easy enough and you want the speed bonus
4) When Juggs are dying
5) If your HM remove's shields faster than you gun can (highly possible give the right setup)
6) If you truly ran out of ammo and thermal clips (extremely rare)

That's all the situation I can think of really.

It doesn't sound like you play past silver. On gold and platnium your shields are droping so fast that if you stop for to long you are on the ground.

[sc_ajk29]

Because they want to.

[weaselshep]

HinDae wrote...

Meh, I do it alot in front of my teammates to bosses, seems to attract aggro much easier, making for easier kills for the team.

I don't think doing it to a boss type enemy is what the intent was to complain about. But the style where a perfectly well armed Juggernaut will slowly plot across the map to grab an assault trooper rather than shoot it.

[Firouz222]

A lot of it comes down to play style; what you are best at. I play Gold rather than Plat. and have noticed the the lone wolf damage spec. Juggs are more prone to falling over and because they tend to wander off. They can cause problems for the team. Played well they are much much better than this description.

The defensive HM Jugg when supported by a tight team (and yes this happens a lot in PUG games) become the focus for the quickest slaughter of bad guys ever, and if all goes well the jugg should score low on the final table.

Not properly supported the defensive Jugg finds himself overwhelmed and wishing he'd speced for DPS. The real problem for the player is that you don't know which PUG team you've got until you're in action.

Trying to tell others that they're doing it wrong is just a little pointless. Your view point is obviously at variance.

[Arctican]

Daimien 06660 wrote...

Arctican wrote...

Juggs should HM when:

1) Phantoms then kill with gun
2) Get the bosses' attention onto you then kill with gun
3) Husks since they die easy enough and you want the speed bonus
4) When Juggs are dying
5) If your HM remove's shields faster than you gun can (highly possible give the right setup)
6) If you truly ran out of ammo and thermal clips (extremely rare)

That's all the situation I can think of really.

It doesn't sound like you play past silver. On gold and platnium your shields are droping so fast that if you stop for to long you are on the ground.

Yes, you caught me. All those Platinum extractions with my Juggernauts were hallucinations!

[Silvair]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Heri wrote...

Fortack wrote...

Heri wrote...

Juggs who spend their time killing trash on plat are bad Juggs. Yes, you can and should bring a ranged weapon for plinking away when no bosses are nearby, but your primary job is getting in bosses' faces and rounding them up.

I think you don't fully comprehend the meaning of "tanking". You can easily have bosses trying to hug you AND make yourself useful in other ways (like shooting stuff).

I'd love to see a video of how long your ass lasts against multiple plat bosses while you do nothing but shoot your gun.

See... you've got it all wrong (still).

It's more like.... how long do Plat bosses last against our weapons in close quarters

Also... AGAIN... this is what the shield is for. Isolating 1-2 bosses away from the crowd while I deal with them.

Why bother isolating 1-2 bosses, when you can group ALL the bosses PLUS all the lesser enemies together and kill them all at once?

That's why I see pure tanking as a better strategy than trying to do DPS when playing a Jugg.

[Cyonan]

Silvair wrote...


Why bother isolating 1-2 bosses, when you can group ALL the bosses PLUS all the lesser enemies together and kill them all at once?

That's why I see pure tanking as a better strategy than trying to do DPS when playing a Jugg.

Full defensive Juggernaut can't survive that on Gold/Plat without an off tank or a Volus for shield boost.

My strategy involves bringing the Lancer, and using the melee while it's regenerating ammo or to stay alive if i'm taking too much damage.

[Vyr_Cossant]

Wait, was there a software update so that the Shield actually works reliably off host? You know--stops incoming munitions reliably, while not blocking outgoing fire? Because, judging from the nature of these posts, there must have been an update.

I don't disagree with the concept of "hey shoot the gun you're carrying once in a while, Jugg!" Still, I think the core idea with Juggy is defense, and well-applied HM can take a lot of heat off your PUG teammates.

[Silvair]

Cyonan wrote...

Silvair wrote...


Why bother isolating 1-2 bosses, when you can group ALL the bosses PLUS all the lesser enemies together and kill them all at once?

That's why I see pure tanking as a better strategy than trying to do DPS when playing a Jugg.

Full defensive Juggernaut can't survive that on Gold/Plat without an off tank or a Volus for shield boost.

My strategy involves bringing the Lancer, and using the melee while it's regenerating ammo or to stay alive if i'm taking too much damage.

My jugg survived doing that a few times.  Granted, you CAN still die from it, but you CAN tank it all, as well.

Heavy melee, light melee, heavy melee, light melee, heavy melee, light melee...stagger and drain, stagger and drain.

And my squadmates werea  geth, turian and collector.  No off tank or shield boost.

Goes way the hell better and easier with a volus and demolisher, though.  Or Justicar.

[Silvair]

Vyr_Cossant wrote...

Wait, was there a software update so that the Shield actually works reliably off host? You know--stops incoming munitions reliably, while not blocking outgoing fire? Because, judging from the nature of these posts, there must have been an update.

I don't disagree with the concept of "hey shoot the gun you're carrying once in a while, Jugg!" Still, I think the core idea with Juggy is defense, and well-applied HM can take a lot of heat off your PUG teammates.

Outgoing fire passing through hex shield would just be silly.

[Arctican]

Silvair wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Heri wrote...

Fortack wrote...

Heri wrote...

Juggs who spend their time killing trash on plat are bad Juggs. Yes, you can and should bring a ranged weapon for plinking away when no bosses are nearby, but your primary job is getting in bosses' faces and rounding them up.

I think you don't fully comprehend the meaning of "tanking". You can easily have bosses trying to hug you AND make yourself useful in other ways (like shooting stuff).

I'd love to see a video of how long your ass lasts against multiple plat bosses while you do nothing but shoot your gun.

See... you've got it all wrong (still).

It's more like.... how long do Plat bosses last against our weapons in close quarters

Also... AGAIN... this is what the shield is for. Isolating 1-2 bosses away from the crowd while I deal with them.

Why bother isolating 1-2 bosses, when you can group ALL the bosses PLUS all the lesser enemies together and kill them all at once?

That's why I see pure tanking as a better strategy than trying to do DPS when playing a Jugg.

I think what he means is grouping them altogether and then put a hex shield in the middle of this large group you have attracted. The enemies behind the shield will pound away uselessly at your hex shield while you deal with the enemies right in front of the shield. You still are attracting the aggro of the entire faction, but taking less damage and killing them at the same time.

[KalilKareem]

I dont see the problem tbh. Heavy melee tank style gameplay is perfectly viable on both gold platinum. The high dps characters can skip a few dodges and keep the dps up on the bosses you occupy. Meanwhiles you heavy melee actually does quite decent damage. Dismissing this tactic is "bad", "inefficient" or "badwrongfun" is just silly.

[Cyonan]

Silvair wrote...

My jugg survived doing that a few times. Granted, you CAN still die from it, but you CAN tank it all, as well.

Heavy melee, light melee, heavy melee, light melee, heavy melee, light melee...stagger and drain, stagger and drain.

And my squadmates werea geth, turian and collector. No off tank or shield boost.

Goes way the hell better and easier with a volus and demolisher, though. Or Justicar.

You're still not gonna survive for very long if you've got every enemy(or even the majority of them) focus firing you on Gold/Plat, even in a full defensive build.

Some setups will let you get away with living a bit longer(Reapers don't do as much damage as other factions) but it's not really going to be that long without outside help or Ops Packs.

If your Turian was a Havoc or Ghost, I would call that an off-tank with the proper use of Stim Packs.

[UnknownMercenary]

Melee Juggs aren't making a compelling argument for the "melee everything" strategy when my "use Hex shield as free RHA and mow down everything with the Typhoon while RPing as a Geth Prime from ME2" strategy is going so nicely.

[RoundedPlanet88]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

Melee Juggs aren't making a compelling argument for the "melee everything" strategy when my "use Hex shield as free RHA and mow down everything with the Typhoon while RPing as a Geth Prime from ME2" strategy is going so nicely.

BWHUHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
PPR for the win.
Spitfire for the trolls.