Aller au contenu

Why do Juggs insist on meleeing everything?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
253 réponses à ce sujet

#126
Guest_Air Quotes_*

Guest_Air Quotes_*
  • Guests

Heri wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Even then I will Typhoon things faster. I will only meelee when I REALLY need shields. And sometimes I will use an Ops Pack instead of wasting 20 seconds soul stealing a Banshee. 


If you've got 2+ bosses on you, there's no way you're Typhooning things and still standing. It's a much better use of everyone's time for the Juggernaut to tank everything in sight (only possible with heavy melee) and then have your teammates focus fire bosses down and/or AoE them.

 

Well only 2 bosses can catch up to if you let them. Bashees and Praetorians. You make Banshees walk then face shoot them. Praetorians are less deadly at melee range. So just shoot the heads in his stomach and make him flop instead of soul drinking for half an hour.  

I just back off from Atlases and Primes and just place my shield and shoot them. And keep backing off. 

Modifié par Air Quotes, 19 mars 2013 - 05:20 .


#127
PelloJiranha

PelloJiranha
  • Members
  • 45 messages
Do we have actually numbers on the melee DPS?

Because (and I'll admit that I was loaded out for melee and that this is anecdotal at best, but) I've noticed that against Platinum Praetorians, I would unload a Reegar clip, think to myself, "Huh, that didn't seem to do more than a heavy melee," pewpew him again, "Nope, definitely not," and go back to meleeing. Would've had a Strength III in and... probably just the HVB on the Reeger to make room for my Omniblade. Ammo? Don't think so, and that could've made the difference, but regardless, I'd like actual numbers if we have them to set my curiosity to rest.

#128
ArtGerhardt

ArtGerhardt
  • Members
  • 424 messages
I love watching a juggs locking on to phantoms. Eat your own scripted animation, *****

Modifié par ArtGerhardt, 19 mars 2013 - 05:28 .


#129
InstaShark

InstaShark
  • Members
  • 2 765 messages

Air Quotes wrote...

Heri wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Even then I will Typhoon things faster. I will only meelee when I REALLY need shields. And sometimes I will use an Ops Pack instead of wasting 20 seconds soul stealing a Banshee. 


If you've got 2+ bosses on you, there's no way you're Typhooning things and still standing. It's a much better use of everyone's time for the Juggernaut to tank everything in sight (only possible with heavy melee) and then have your teammates focus fire bosses down and/or AoE them.

 

Well only 2 bosses can catch up to if you let them. Bashees and Praetorians. You make Banshees walk then face shoot them. Praetorians are less deadly at melee range. So just shoot the heads in his stomach and make him flop instead of soul drinking for half an hour.  

I just back off from Atlases and Primes and just place my shield and shoot them. And keep backing off. 

Just throw a Hex Shield in their face to block cannon shots and keep your distance so their rockets' blast radius won't reach you when it hits the shield. Assuming they're in melee range, of course.

#130
capn233

capn233
  • Members
  • 17 346 messages
Personally, I try to light them up and then detonate with Siege Pulse if I have shields. I melee if I need to recharge, or if something like a Phantom is near a teammate.

#131
Curzyfish

Curzyfish
  • Members
  • 249 messages

PelloJiranha wrote...

Do we have actually numbers on the melee DPS?

Because (and I'll admit that I was loaded out for melee and that this is anecdotal at best, but) I've noticed that against Platinum Praetorians, I would unload a Reegar clip, think to myself, "Huh, that didn't seem to do more than a heavy melee," pewpew him again, "Nope, definitely not," and go back to meleeing. Would've had a Strength III in and... probably just the HVB on the Reeger to make room for my Omniblade. Ammo? Don't think so, and that could've made the difference, but regardless, I'd like actual numbers if we have them to set my curiosity to rest.



Ammo makes all the difference for the reegar.  The heavy melee can put out a reasonable amount of damage if you go all the way with it, over 800dps with melee gear, amp, and a shotgun omni blade.  But that's at the cost of quite a bit of shields, and shield regen rate. 

Many weapons can deal out that kind of damage at base before any consumables, do not require enemies to get in your face, and can be used from behind your shield so you aren't taking damage in the first place.

Modifié par Curzyfish, 19 mars 2013 - 05:42 .


#132
BlackDahlia424

BlackDahlia424
  • Members
  • 2 347 messages
I made a similar thread a while back:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/16117489

Basically I was told to L2P.

#133
Guest_Heri_*

Guest_Heri_*
  • Guests

Air Quotes wrote...

Heri wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Even then I will Typhoon things faster. I will only meelee when I REALLY need shields. And sometimes I will use an Ops Pack instead of wasting 20 seconds soul stealing a Banshee. 


If you've got 2+ bosses on you, there's no way you're Typhooning things and still standing. It's a much better use of everyone's time for the Juggernaut to tank everything in sight (only possible with heavy melee) and then have your teammates focus fire bosses down and/or AoE them.

 

Well only 2 bosses can catch up to if you let them. Bashees and Praetorians. You make Banshees walk then face shoot them. Praetorians are less deadly at melee range. So just shoot the heads in his stomach and make him flop instead of soul drinking for half an hour.  

I just back off from Atlases and Primes and just place my shield and shoot them. And keep backing off. 


But why would you be worried about bosses catching up to you? If you're tanking, you *want* them to be in your face. Because as I said before, the way you're the most beneficial to your team (on plat) is by rounding up all the bosses on yourself, and then having teammates focus fire/AoE them down. That's the power of the Juggernaut, but you have to get yourself out of the mindset of "my personal DPS is paramount" in order to be able to appreciate it.

#134
Jeremiah12LGeek

Jeremiah12LGeek
  • Members
  • 23 896 messages

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

I made a similar thread a while back:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/16117489

Basically I was told to L2P.


The irony of that is how you actually kill a lot of things when you use a Juggy, while still not dying. :P

#135
PelloJiranha

PelloJiranha
  • Members
  • 45 messages

Curzyfish wrote...

Ammo makes all the difference for the reegar.  The heavy melee can put out a reasonable amount of damage if you go all the way with it, over 800dps with melee gear, amp, and a shotgun omni blade.  But that's at the cost of quite a bit of shields, and shield regen rate. 

Many weapons can deal out that kind of damage at base before any consumables, do not require enemies to get in your face, and can be used from behind your shield so you aren't taking damage in the first place.


Yeah, I figured I was gimping the Reegar pretty bad, heh. But, like, Narida shows the Jugg's max melee damage as being 220, but I feel like I've read somewhere that it hits multiple times per second. I guess to take your number of 800, it would be hitting 4 times per second, which is actually sounds about right.

#136
Silvair

Silvair
  • Members
  • 1 830 messages
 Immortality, renders enemies completely helpless, as they can't move or attack, and it does good damage.

Light melee staggers EVERYTHING, heavy melee renders them unable to move or attack or defend.

Why WOULDN"T I melee everything?

#137
Guest_Air Quotes_*

Guest_Air Quotes_*
  • Guests

Silvair wrote...

 Immortality, renders enemies completely helpless, as they can't move or attack, and it does good damage.

Light melee staggers EVERYTHING, heavy melee renders them unable to move or attack or defend.

Why WOULDN"T I melee everything?

 

Because you can GPS 3 mooks faster than you drain 1? 

#138
Chaoz14

Chaoz14
  • Members
  • 38 messages
Juggernaut on Platinum, tanking for the team while doing heavy melee to maintain shields? Yeah...I'm gonna keep doing it. As someone else said, it's pretty much invincible while doing heavy melee (Tank all the things!).

#139
Guest_Air Quotes_*

Guest_Air Quotes_*
  • Guests

Chaoz14 wrote...

Juggernaut on Platinum, tanking for the team while doing heavy melee to maintain shields? Yeah...I'm gonna keep doing it. As someone else said, it's pretty much invincible while doing heavy melee (Tank all the things!).

 

What I mean is that it's fine to tank. But I see plenty of Juggs walking 100 meters across Rio to grab a Nemesis when they could just put a bullet in her head or just ignore her and go TANK things. 

#140
Faithful Sinner

Faithful Sinner
  • Members
  • 18 messages

Air Quotes wrote...

Saradas85 wrote...

when you heavy melee enemies with the Juggy, they ragdoll, giving you a 100% deadly shot. try it with a Javelin :)

 

Sure. But they waste a lot of time. Just mow mooks down with gun fire and choke Phantoms. But they grab every husk. 


Trollage

#141
Silvair

Silvair
  • Members
  • 1 830 messages

Air Quotes wrote...

Silvair wrote...

 Immortality, renders enemies completely helpless, as they can't move or attack, and it does good damage.

Light melee staggers EVERYTHING, heavy melee renders them unable to move or attack or defend.

Why WOULDN"T I melee everything?

 

Because you can GPS 3 mooks faster than you drain 1? 


And then have lost your shields from the 3+ mooks blowing it all away.


Thing with a juggernaut is, if you focus on the defense, you have a PERFECT defense.  If you start shooting things, you do nothing but gimp yourself (solos notwithstanding).

I don't pick a juggernaut to get fast kills.  I pick a Juggernaut to aggro and tank the entire wave so my squadmates can kill said wave without any worries.

So basically, to re-answer the topic question:  Because I'm specced for defense.  Ther'es no justifiable reason to ever shoot my gun unless they are out of melee range, in which case, i'm just firing while I approach.

I COULD go around trying to gun down the enemies but...why?  That's what the squadmates are there for.  I'm there to tank.

To quote a great cyborg, the enemies are just walking vending machines.  It's just a waste to let the juice spill out of the box, rather than drink it all in.

#142
Silvair

Silvair
  • Members
  • 1 830 messages

Air Quotes wrote...

Chaoz14 wrote...

Juggernaut on Platinum, tanking for the team while doing heavy melee to maintain shields? Yeah...I'm gonna keep doing it. As someone else said, it's pretty much invincible while doing heavy melee (Tank all the things!).

 

What I mean is that it's fine to tank. But I see plenty of Juggs walking 100 meters across Rio to grab a Nemesis when they could just put a bullet in her head or just ignore her and go TANK things. 


That's mostly just because it's fun.  Phantoms and Nemesis are top priority for grabs, purely for revenge satisfaction.  PHantoms for payback for synkills, Nemesis for being annoying as hell by constantly running around.  Fun to chase a nemesis round a pillar as she tries to get away from being grabbed lol.

#143
Curzyfish

Curzyfish
  • Members
  • 249 messages

PelloJiranha wrote...

Curzyfish wrote...

Ammo makes all the difference for the reegar.  The heavy melee can put out a reasonable amount of damage if you go all the way with it, over 800dps with melee gear, amp, and a shotgun omni blade.  But that's at the cost of quite a bit of shields, and shield regen rate. 

Many weapons can deal out that kind of damage at base before any consumables, do not require enemies to get in your face, and can be used from behind your shield so you aren't taking damage in the first place.


Yeah, I figured I was gimping the Reegar pretty bad, heh. But, like, Narida shows the Jugg's max melee damage as being 220, but I feel like I've read somewhere that it hits multiple times per second. I guess to take your number of 800, it would be hitting 4 times per second, which is actually sounds about right.



Peddro's data mining shows that it hit's at 60 base, 24 times over 6 seconds.  So after gear and such, that is 220 damage 24 times over 6 seconds, which divided by 6 is 880 dps.

#144
Innocent Bystander

Innocent Bystander
  • Members
  • 505 messages

Air Quotes wrote...

Because you can GPS 3 mooks faster than you drain 1? 

Not everyone uses GPS. I like Adas, cuz it's actually pretty good weapon, kinda fits Juggs support/tank role and has bigger clip and ammo reserve than Falcon/Scorpion. But it suck at melee range, so if there's one husk humping my leg best thing I can do is step back and HM. On the other hand if there are 3 I wouldn't try to melee them, I'll just use Hex Shield to prime and Siege Pulse to detonate their arses and then shoot whatever survived.
So I agree with you that meleeing everything is not the smartest thing to do, but shooting everything isn't either.

#145
Curzyfish

Curzyfish
  • Members
  • 249 messages

Silvair wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Silvair wrote...

 Immortality, renders enemies completely helpless, as they can't move or attack, and it does good damage.

Light melee staggers EVERYTHING, heavy melee renders them unable to move or attack or defend.

Why WOULDN"T I melee everything?

 

Because you can GPS 3 mooks faster than you drain 1? 


And then have lost your shields from the 3+ mooks blowing it all away.


Thing with a juggernaut is, if you focus on the defense, you have a PERFECT defense.  If you start shooting things, you do nothing but gimp yourself (solos notwithstanding).

I don't pick a juggernaut to get fast kills.  I pick a Juggernaut to aggro and tank the entire wave so my squadmates can kill said wave without any worries.

So basically, to re-answer the topic question:  Because I'm specced for defense.  Ther'es no justifiable reason to ever shoot my gun unless they are out of melee range, in which case, i'm just firing while I approach.

I COULD go around trying to gun down the enemies but...why?  That's what the squadmates are there for.  I'm there to tank.

To quote a great cyborg, the enemies are just walking vending machines.  It's just a waste to let the juice spill out of the box, rather than drink it all in.



I'll play with you anytime if you think the juggernaught can't put out respectable damage.  Siege pulse spam is actually great.  It's just his mobility that hinders him.  If I could have a character with more normal durability, a dodge, sprint, and siege pulse I would love it.

EDIT: If you are a part of the PC master race that is.

Modifié par Curzyfish, 19 mars 2013 - 06:26 .


#146
krknight

krknight
  • Members
  • 514 messages
if i was going to do anything else, i'd pick a different character.

on a side note, juggernaut should get a banner for a u/u/g 15 revive medal.

#147
Silvair

Silvair
  • Members
  • 1 830 messages

Curzyfish wrote...

Silvair wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Silvair wrote...

 Immortality, renders enemies completely helpless, as they can't move or attack, and it does good damage.

Light melee staggers EVERYTHING, heavy melee renders them unable to move or attack or defend.

Why WOULDN"T I melee everything?

 

Because you can GPS 3 mooks faster than you drain 1? 


And then have lost your shields from the 3+ mooks blowing it all away.


Thing with a juggernaut is, if you focus on the defense, you have a PERFECT defense.  If you start shooting things, you do nothing but gimp yourself (solos notwithstanding).

I don't pick a juggernaut to get fast kills.  I pick a Juggernaut to aggro and tank the entire wave so my squadmates can kill said wave without any worries.

So basically, to re-answer the topic question:  Because I'm specced for defense.  Ther'es no justifiable reason to ever shoot my gun unless they are out of melee range, in which case, i'm just firing while I approach.

I COULD go around trying to gun down the enemies but...why?  That's what the squadmates are there for.  I'm there to tank.

To quote a great cyborg, the enemies are just walking vending machines.  It's just a waste to let the juice spill out of the box, rather than drink it all in.



I'll play with you anytime if you think the juggernaught can't put out respectable damage.  Siege pulse spam is actually great.  It's just his mobility that hinders him.  If I could have a character with more normal durability, a dodge, sprint, and siege pulse I would love it.

EDIT: If you are a part of the PC master race that is.


1)  I have this game on pc, but just starting out, still mostly playing it on xbox.
2)  I'd rather keep my 40% damage resistance than be spamming Siege Pulse, thank you very much.  Again, I use a defensive build on my juggs.
3)  I never said he couldn't put out respectable damage.  I said it's a waste to be focusing on damage when you are the character who has godlike defense that far outweighs any respectable damage that you could do even easier with any other character.

#148
Doctor Proctor

Doctor Proctor
  • Members
  • 145 messages
When I play my Jugg in Gold I tend to melee things a lot because that's how I do the most damage while maintaining survivability. He's specced as follows:

Siege Pulse: 1,2,3,4b,5a,6a
   I basically fire up siege pulse and leave it there 90% of the time to get the damage reduction. I'll occassionally fire it  off to get Tech Bursts with the Hex Shield or knockdowns when fighting small groups of mooks or to take a turret out from range.

Hex Shield: 1,2,3,4a,5a,6a
   I recently tried switching from 6b to 6a to get the 10% damage boost, but I'm still trying to determine if it's worth it. I mainly throw it out to block long range fire and for the damage effects.

Geth Turret: 1,2,3
   I know everyone says the thing is great for heals, but I just find that it dies too quick. I either have to turn away to throw it behind me (which means I don't see when it goes down) or toss it into the pack of enemies on the other side of the shield (where it promptly dies because it's right in front of them). I put the three points in because it can be useful to toss down near allies and such though.

Geth Juggernaut: 1,2,3,4b,5a
   Put points into this mainly for the weight capacity in 4b and the extra boost to Siege Pulse, Turret and Hex Shield damage from 5a.

Fitness: 1,2,3,4a,5a,6b
   By swapping 4b for 4a you lose on 400 total points of shields (4200 instead of 4600) and gain a +30% melee boost. You also lose around 100 points of shield recharge per melee, but you're still getting back over 800 per second IIRC. Basically, trading a tiny amount of survivability for the ability to kill faster with the melee.

Gear: Juggernaut Shield V - +20% shields, +12% melee
   Extra shields + melee damage. Not much else to say.

Weapon: Disciple Shotgun with Omniblade III
   I use the Disciple for it's light weight, which allows me to drop the shield or the turret constantly. Plus, the stagger effect is nice for things slightly out of light melee range. More imporantly though, it lets me put on the Shotgun Omniblade, which buffs my melee even more.

Equipment: Strength Enhancer II or III (depending on availability), Cyclonic Modulator I (Was running out of II's and III's, so I've tried running with just I's, and it's been pretty effective) and some sort of ammo that can combo for a Tech Burst and/or weaken armor

With this build I can basically pick up just about any mook and kill them with one full HM. Exceptions are things like Pyros and Dragoons that have a lot of armor. Weakening them up with the Disciple or the Hex Shield will usually do enough damage to them to allow me to kill them in one HM though.

As mentioned above, if I'm out in the open and not getting swarmed I can use Siege Pulse + Ammo powers to set up Tech Bursts on enemies and take them down faster from range. Primarily though, I just try to wade into the largest swarm of guys and start meleeing. Even against two or three enemies it's pretty effective since you don't have to worry about a Scion or Ravager taking out your shields while you're firing a weapon or using your siege pulse (which drops your DR and makes you a LOT squishier). If one of those guys does show up, you're essentially regening 800 shields per second, which means they can't drop your shields in a surprise strike.

Yes, I might be able to kill things a little faster if I brought a Typhoon or something and specced the Siege Pulse for damage, but this comes at a cost of survivability. Additionally, you know how enemies have all sorts of annoying dodges and ways to make themselves harder to hit? Things like cloaks (Hunters and Phantoms), leaps (Dragoons), dodges (most mooks that don't have cloaks) or flight (Bombers)? Well, once you've grabbed them with a HM, none of that really matters.

Even the bombers going on a bombing run against me doesn't take them out of HM range, which means that once I've locked they're dead unless I drop them or I get stunned somehow. So there's no slowly turning around to keep firing as the bomber goes over your head, no slowly lumbering around cover to get to the phantom that cloaked and flipped behind a 3ft wall, and no missing your siege pulse shot due a Marauder roll. They just get held up till they die, and then I move onto the next guy.

While it may be a simple strategy, it's still effective if you're built around melee damage. I've gone into plenty of Gold matches with weapon based Juggs and both outlasted and outscored them. Granted, maybe they were terrible players...who knows. But what I do know is that it's pretty effective and puts out pretty good sustained damage to enemies, while ensuring that I'm staying alive. And really, that's basically what you need for ANY class to be effective in Gold, so I don't see a problem with this play style.

#149
Bendigoe

Bendigoe
  • Members
  • 492 messages
I'm not changing my playstyle as the Jugg when It's effective and 9/10 I do the best on the team =/
Whilst I'm force-choking enemies are passing through my shield and swarming me, after force-choking the enemy to death I'm surrounded, light melee to stagger EVERYTHING, rinse and repeat.

#150
Petiertje

Petiertje
  • Members
  • 301 messages

Jiovanie- wrote...

I find myself asking that very same question. You're not helping anyone by force choking the one Phantom on the field. You're helping putting that shield between us small fries and that Atlas. When you get a good Juggernaut, the match is so easy, though.


The Juggernaught has a few weaknesses, one of them are the phantoms, when you have a atlas or two, and some mooks shooting at you and a phantom is close shaving your legs, than the one thing to do to survive, (so the guys shooting at you won't start shooting at the small fries), is choking the phantom to death. I play him mostly as a damage dealer, but when the club starts to get a bit crowded i'm more than happy to tank a bunch of guys, and if i have to choke a phantom or two to stay alive, well, just kill the other guys shooting at me.