253 réponses à ce sujet

[NT121784]

I'll admit, I sometime choke when I don't need to, but its because of a battle rythm. Fire, choke, reload, repeat. I've gotten to where I quick melee if I am fairly high inshield, but yeah, its just a rythm.

[Ledgend1221]

Er coots pls.
90% DR.

[Lucky]

Air Quotes wrote...

Even when they are in full health they walk around grabbing everything. Just place your freaking shield and shoot dammit. Meeleing is for survivability only not for DPS. 

And sure, go ahead and grab those Phantoms. But don't toy with those troopers. 

+1 it's scrubby, boring and sooooo slow if that's your main method of killing.

Only thing worse is the morons who walk up to melee, drop their shield (thereby blocking teammates shots and doing nothing to the enemy) and then melee constantly...

Modifié par rlucht, 19 mars 2013 - 06:52 .

[NexionSE]

well if they are always HM all the things you can just shot them helping to kill them instantly
or maybe they are noobs that picked harrier and have run out of ammo?
some maybe just got him and just fool around with it

[Dabbler77]

I find that after about wave 3 on Gold you are so overruned by enemies that if you don't HM everything some distant sniper/ravager/scion can take down your shields almost instantly.

I used to use the Siege Pulse offensively but by wave 5 I am usually surrounded by enemies (i.e. a couple of mooks plus 2-4 sync-kill boss enemies) that I never get the chance to use it.

[january42]

I use a hybrid build, mainly because I find pure tanking dull. With the right build, you can melee pretty effectivly actually. Gold tier 1 and tier 2 guys go down pretty quickly. Not much slower than shooting them, and less risk, esp if there is lag.

[jotun04]

Because it is the coolest move in the game.

[Lucius Aelius]

What mystifies me is this idea of "tanking" and "support" that doesn't involve killing things. As I've said repeatedly now it's the Volus argument all over again, and Jugg's heavy melee is the new shield boost. Yes it does make you nigh-invincible and yes it helps your teammates, but people seem to think that's an excuse to not kill things (with more than heavy melee) as well, which I frankly don't understand unless all such people really are just that bad at the game and they can't handle playing normally (actually using guns and powers).

I don't like carrying people who are playing above their skill level (sends people the message that ruining other people's fun because you're greedy is okay, which it isn't), so when I see anyone playing in a brain-dead manner without shooting or using powers to kill things, I see that person as essentially a leecher playing a difficulty they otherwise wouldn't be prepared for in the hopes of being carried, and if nothing else I don't want to play with them.

In addition, the simple fact is that both Volus and Juggernauts have the potential to deal out not insubstantial quantities of damage with their weapons and powers (no matter how you spec them), and not using them to kill things is choosing not to live up to either character's potential. Anyone who is only half-playing their character is doing it wrong and is at least a semi-leecher (as is anyone who goes into a game expecting to need to be carried or expecting others to be dealing out all the DPS).

Then there's this idea of tanking that involves specifically standing in a massive group of enemies and just heavy meleeing ad nauseam, as though that's the "right" way to play the Juggernaut, which it just isn't. Play the Juggernaut normally, backing up from boss enemies so they never surround you while still keeping them occupied is hardly difficult. Add to that actual shooting and power use, and you can "tank" all the bosses while also being the person who kills them, a far more effective (and infinitely more fun) way to use the GJ.

I would not presume to say there is only one right way to play the Juggernaut, but there most certainly is a wrong way, and most people I've seen are unequivocally doing it wrong.


tl;dr: Being a true team player in a shooting game requires you to kill things and not expect others to do the killing for you.

Modifié par Lucius Aelius, 19 mars 2013 - 07:14 .

[AktyNuria]

Because they can? I wonder what would happen if any krogan would get immunity for sync-kill...

[JosLouis70]

I agree with Air Quotes but with one condition.

IF the juggy has Fitness
Rank 4 - A
Rank 5 - A
Rank 6 - B
and the equipment he's wearing is Juggernaut Shield
and he's equipping a Shotty or an Ass Rifle with Omni Blade mod
and he didn't spec Siege Pulse with Pistol or SMG w/Power Magni
-> I don't mind him using Melee all the time.

If he's Meleeing without those requirements. I will scream in the mic.
F words on how bad Reckoning is, how lame he is and how I want to quit the game or that he's ruining great weapon kills/dmg for useless slow melee dmg.

On the good side. Bring a good sniper. Wait until the force choked enemy loses his shield and headshot/stealkill that hanging mob ;P

Touchy subject.

[Amusingthree93]

Happens because of stupidity. The only thing which should be melee grabbed if shield recharge isnt needed us the phantom. Everything else should be shot. The melee should only be used for shield recharge.

[Singu]

Amusingthree93 wrote...

Happens because of stupidity. The only thing which should be melee grabbed if shield recharge isnt needed us the phantom. Everything else should be shot. The melee should only be used for shield recharge.

No. As a Juggernaught you melee to gain aggro, and manage/kite mobs into a killzone. Making sure your party has a nice area to focus fire on and making sure the mobs there doesn't fire back at your "glasscannon" party. You can do regular melee as well to gain area threat from lesser mobs around you and to CC them.

Meleeing multiple times on one boss however is a waste. One heavy melee is enough to make them focus you untill they fall over, this includes Phantoms as well. If you have more phantoms coming in you can drop your HM channeling and grab a new one before she runs towards your party.

I think people who are familiar with RPG style tanking grasp this concept quicker than others. This also encourage the damage dealers to move  behind the tank relative to the new spawns - so they're kited past the Jugg instead of him having to labour all the way over to the new mobs.

There's no "correct" way to play the Jugg. But there's a lot of wrong ways. Only meleeing phantoms is clearly wrong.

I love Bioware for creating such a nice kit, and it really introduced a new gameplay style to Gold&Plat matches(not that I have a lot of experience from Plat - but from what I hear it's functional there as well).

Edit: Shotguns are mandatory on Juggs though. For the 50% melee boost. You can grab longer range shotgun to gain aggro on mobs outside your melee reach, or short range shotguns like the Raegar for additional killing speed within melee distance. You shoot when it's convenient, not when you're "expected" to shoot as the OP seems to suggest.

Siegepulse is great for mopping up the end of rounds and for hacking objectives when you're waiting for mobs. That way you can also get away with equipping a short range high DPS weapon like the Raegar.

Modifié par Singu, 20 mars 2013 - 03:38 .

[Counter_Mixture]

Air Quotes wrote...

Even when they are in full health they walk around grabbing everything. Just place your freaking shield and shoot dammit. Meeleing is for survivability only not for DPS. 

And sure, go ahead and grab those Phantoms. But don't toy with those troopers. 

Tanking.

[Curzyfish]

Silvair wrote...

Curzyfish wrote...

Silvair wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Silvair wrote...

 Immortality, renders enemies completely helpless, as they can't move or attack, and it does good damage.

Light melee staggers EVERYTHING, heavy melee renders them unable to move or attack or defend.

Why WOULDN"T I melee everything?

 

Because you can GPS 3 mooks faster than you drain 1? 

And then have lost your shields from the 3+ mooks blowing it all away.


Thing with a juggernaut is, if you focus on the defense, you have a PERFECT defense.  If you start shooting things, you do nothing but gimp yourself (solos notwithstanding).

I don't pick a juggernaut to get fast kills.  I pick a Juggernaut to aggro and tank the entire wave so my squadmates can kill said wave without any worries.

So basically, to re-answer the topic question:  Because I'm specced for defense.  Ther'es no justifiable reason to ever shoot my gun unless they are out of melee range, in which case, i'm just firing while I approach.

I COULD go around trying to gun down the enemies but...why?  That's what the squadmates are there for.  I'm there to tank.

To quote a great cyborg, the enemies are just walking vending machines.  It's just a waste to let the juice spill out of the box, rather than drink it all in.

I'll play with you anytime if you think the juggernaught can't put out respectable damage.  Siege pulse spam is actually great.  It's just his mobility that hinders him.  If I could have a character with more normal durability, a dodge, sprint, and siege pulse I would love it.

EDIT: If you are a part of the PC master race that is.

1)  I have this game on pc, but just starting out, still mostly playing it on xbox.
2)  I'd rather keep my 40% damage resistance than be spamming Siege Pulse, thank you very much.  Again, I use a defensive build on my juggs.
3)  I never said he couldn't put out respectable damage.  I said it's a waste to be focusing on damage when you are the character who has godlike defense that far outweighs any respectable damage that you could do even easier with any other character.

Your problem is the assumption that you can't tank while dealing damage.  I've got no problem in plat standing in front of everyone else while using a power amp instead of a cyclo mod.

[iOnlySignIn]

Combat Mastery.

Herp Derp.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 20 mars 2013 - 06:25 .

[GreatBlueHeron]

Why is this a thread? Why should anyone care if a jugg melees all the things? If you don't like it, tell the jugg on the mic. They will probably be more than happy to stop meleeing sync kill units and guide them to where you are, making sure to melee mooks to keep up shields...and then laugh when you get sync killed.

[Sethvir Fireborn]

Air Quotes wrote...

Even when they are in full health they walk around grabbing everything. Just place your freaking shield and shoot dammit. Meeleing is for survivability only not for DPS. 

And sure, go ahead and grab those Phantoms. But don't toy with those troopers. 

So people should play it how you want them to play it and not have fun? I walk around meleeing for the fun of it myself

[Stimpo]

Heri wrote...

Singu wrote...

Edit: Shotguns are mandatory on Juggs though. For the 50% melee boost. You can grab longer range shotgun to gain aggro on mobs outside your melee reach, or short range shotguns like the Raegar for additional killing speed within melee distance. You shoot when it's convenient, not when you're "expected" to shoot as the OP seems to suggest.

Of course they are. People who think Juggs' heavy melee sucks have probably never properly equipped him for it. If you're not using a shotgun with an omni-blade, a strength enhancer, and a Juggernaut shield on him, you're doing it wrong. Period.

While I'm "doing it wrong. period.", I'll 2-clip a gold banshee with reegar+shredder+HVB+incendiary IV, i've never even tried it w/ a shotgun amp and hex shield dmg spec, can probably get it down to 1 clip. have fun spamming heavy melee feeling like a "tank" in a game without standard RPG aggro mechanics, I'll be the Jugg in your pug killing everything. Pro tip - you don't have to tank bosses if you just kill them before they can even shield-gate you. Sorry tho, we're all doin it wrong. period.

[Sovereign24]

Lol why else would I play the Jugg juice?

If I just wanted to shoot things, I'd pick another class.

Soul steal ftw.

[Uchimura]

I agree with this notion. Had a gold game earlier. I was nearby a Juggernaut and I died, leaving the Praetorian that killed me with 1 bar left of armor. Sat there for 10 seconds as the Juggernaut melees him, trying to finish him off, and then someone else comes and resses me. (Yes, I know it was my fault I died and I was waiting for a res. I would've gelled anyway if this guy wasn't right next to me. Though the Juggernaut was still meleeing everything in sight and doing butt for damage.)

Just an example. I know the heavy melee actually does kill stuff nicely, but definitely need the setup for it and I'd still be shooting most things like normal if I brought the Jugger.

Modifié par Uchimura, 20 mars 2013 - 07:07 .

[Geimhreadh]

Because he's the Juggernaut, bish.

[NexionSE]

Uchimura wrote...

I agree with this notion. Had a gold game earlier. I was nearby a Juggernaut and I died, leaving the Praetorian that killed me with 1 bar left of armor. Sat there for 10 seconds as the Juggernaut melees him, trying to finish him off, and then someone else comes and resses me. (Yes, I know it was my fault I died and I was waiting for a res. I would've gelled anyway if this guy wasn't right next to me. Though the Juggernaut was still meleeing everything in sight and doing butt for damage.)

Just an example. I know the heavy melee actually does kill stuff nicely, but definitely need the setup for it and I'd still be shooting most things like normal if I brought the Jugger.

jugg's have problem getting away from a Praetorian at gold + if they don't already have some distance and or is at full shield then they can walk away from them to rez and not die when doing it. yea thats with max shield fitness and 40% dr so you should have geled

and that pretorian should have died after half a HM as it deals way more then 1 bar of armor