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Why are people so against holding a position?


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#151
ctr2yellowbird

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Since you seem to be asking literal questions, I will present an argument as foil to your beliefs.

Silvair wrote...

"Stop camping!"

God forbid the team use a little strategy rather than just running around all the time, with teammates usually getting picked off as they get off on their own and get flanked.


First, effective run & gun typically requires more strategy than camping. Or, if you want to split hairs, it substitutes strategy with considerably greater tactics. Also, camping will require more coordination with greater timing when the pocket collapses, a hitherto largely untested team capacity in prior waves, whereas R&G establishes and facilitates flexible teamplay. As a reminder, I am mostly referring to instances of effective gameplay because, in my experience, ineffective team members are kind of lousy regardless of strategy used.

But seriously.  It's my habit to find a good defendable position, with an escape route, then hold up there fighting the incoming hordes (Objectives aside, obviously) until i'm forced to move.

What is "bad" about that, exactly?  Are people just too impatient to hold still for more than 10 seconds, or what?  It's not like it takes any longer to kill enemies, now they all funnel straight to you rather than having to run around chasing them as they scatter.


Oh, camping most certainly does lengthen the time taken to kill enemies for many class and weapon choices. Also, guerilla tactics will divide the enemy forces and split their power base, reducing their threat potential similar to dispersing the team around the map. It's a two-way street with trade-offs in survivability. Lastly, a dispersed team effort often deals damage more effectively, in ME3, than continual focused fire.

To explain, let's assume you are always the top-scorer, typically the player with the highest DPS, but let's say you spike damage. How much redundant damage is dealt to your targets prior to your killshots? Or vice versa. How many times did your team focus down an enemy that your build is uniquely and especially capable of eliminating? I mean, it's a general practice to optimize builds to just one-shot certain enemies, or just finish them with a combo, or perhaps neatly two-shot certain enemies, perhaps padding damage with an easy power, or with a single clip, etc. So when a less effective player works on one enemy for five seconds when you were going to kill it from full health with one shot, then that player typically has wasted those five seconds' worth of DPS. Dividing the team generally allows everyone to deal their potential DPS, although I concede some situations where DPS is limited by time trying to survive (e.g., running, taking cover, etc.) that is not required with concentration attacks.

Now I mean, I personally don't like constantly running around the map, but if other people do, so be it, i'll just factor them in and keep tabs on them.

But that tolerance doesn't seem to go in the other direction.  I've had pugs run up and start trying to shoot me for staying in one position, yelling "stop camping, scrub" or some noobish comment like that.

Your thoughts?


Gameplay is more dynamic and arguably more entertaining with mobile strategies, even when they ultimately prove less effective. In essence, I believe it's more challenging and therefore engaging. A greater challenge? Well I guess I'll just have to play even better. That shouldn't matter when you're already the top scorer, or "most effective" player. Also, R&Ging as the top scorer sometimes has the added perk of winning trust as defecto team leader through proven and accepted superiority. The other players are more likely to follow your direction when you can demonstrate effective survivability outside the shooting gallery, which further optimizes your team's success with capable leadership. These concepts are analagous to team over group effectiveness for complex, unique tasks and optimal understaffing, should one apply OB research to a video game.

#152
upinya slayin

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Cassandra Saturn wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Cassandra Saturn wrote...

i work with my own pug team in BF3, they also find it fun to work with the elite sniper. they were even suprised that i'm leader of 501st Destroyers (a battlion of most highly experienced veteran unit) in Socom 4 and on BF3.


your daily dose of superblaze


excuse me what?

Socom 4 and Battlefield 3 is playstation 3 games i own.
you might want to edit your post about attacking me over my post.


how is that an attack?
your post about the 501st batallian is attacking me becuase i created that clan 10 years ago and your taking my credit. I'm highly offended and expect an apology ASAP.

#153
Dunvi

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EdAndEinBebop wrote...


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
*ahem*, Spectator Mode 
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Camping sure seems safe and effective.





why dont we compare our manifest?

http://social.biowar...bop&platform=pc

so apparently camping does pay off. big time
I managed to max out the pre-Reckoning URs in less than 400 hours
mostly using a Krogan soldier with fire grenades and a low level N7 Pirana doing Rio/Reaper Platinum...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Edit:
and now I keep camping either using juggernaut or justicar on mostly White and Giant


WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT

since when does maxing your manifest imply anything about competence? paying off credit-wise if manifest is the only thing that matters.

some of us like to have fun. and practice being good at the game.

#154
EdAndEinBebop

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lol haha missiling the spawns. yeah now thats so very brave of you. I mean isnt the bravery and manliness that make people like you think that camping is lame? so what does spawn killing make you?

so if it is so easy for you to get credits how come URs are not maxed out yet?

Modifié par EdAndEinBebop, 19 mars 2013 - 08:15 .


#155
serotoninjunkie

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Well, I admit, I am a defensive player. When I attack (I PUG a lot, so no support from their side) i usually end up being torn apart by enemies. The only way it works for me is when i play with my brother, because of coordination and such.
I love holding the line, but i know when I am about to get overrunned. When I was playing FPS like CoD i got called a camper every game, because i wasn't running brainlessly around the map like the so called "Pros." No such problems in ME3.
Morale of the story: Play as you like as long as you know what you are doing. A pure defensive strategy won't do the job, so i try to support more offensive playing teammembers.
Why people are against holding positions? It's an awful side-effect from FPS, where movement automatically makes you a pro and it's now creeping into Tacticshooters.

#156
Rodia Driftwood

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Silvair wrote...

"Stop camping!"

God forbid the team use a little strategy rather than just running around all the time, with teammates usually getting picked off as they get off on their own and get flanked.


But seriously.  It's my habit to find a good defendable position, with an escape route, then hold up there fighting the incoming hordes (Objectives aside, obviously) until i'm forced to move.

What is "bad" about that, exactly?  Are people just too impatient to hold still for more than 10 seconds, or what?  It's not like it takes any longer to kill enemies, now they all funnel straight to you rather than having to run around chasing them as they scatter. 

Now I mean, I personally don't like constantly running around the map, but if other people do, so be it, i'll just factor them in and keep tabs on them.

But that tolerance doesn't seem to go in the other direction.  I've had pugs run up and start trying to shoot me for staying in one position, yelling "stop camping, scrub" or some noobish comment like that.

Your thoughts?



1.- That takes "teamwork", which is a word PUGs never heard of. Also, most people don't have have a mic, so that kind of coordination is almost never possible.

2.- Games would take a lot longer, and that's just boring. I had plenty of camping back when FBW was the map of shame.

#157
upinya slayin

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HoochieHamiltoe wrote...

Cassandra Saturn wrote...

HoochieHamiltoe wrote...

Cassandra Saturn wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Cassandra Saturn wrote...

i work with my own pug team in BF3, they also find it fun to work with the elite sniper. they were even suprised that i'm leader of 501st Destroyers (a battlion of most highly experienced veteran unit) in Socom 4 and on BF3.


your daily dose of superblaze


excuse me what?

Socom 4 and Battlefield 3 is playstation 3 games i own.
you might want to edit your post about attacking me over my post.


He like many people on this forum are tired of you always tooting your horn. Give it a rest. 

oh, tooting my horn? since when? i don't see anything that clearly says it. you are labeling me as such. just drop it.


Oh ok. Go carry some more N7 level 1 players on Platinum......since you are so good at this game....:?


do you konw who that is? he jumps on atla's head and does it gangam style and punches them in the head till they die...but then he dies from the fall damage

#158
Cloaking_Thane

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dat epeen

#159
EdAndEinBebop

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WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT

since when does maxing your manifest imply anything about competence? paying off credit-wise if manifest is the only thing that matters.

some of us like to have fun. and practice being good at the game.


oh yes! using armored compartment killing the spawns to finish a platinum game in under 10 min sounds very fun and they certainly are very good at the game. yes you are so right sir

Modifié par EdAndEinBebop, 19 mars 2013 - 08:20 .


#160
Zeromarro4

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tetsutsuru wrote...

Camping is static gameplay.

And some kits, like the N7 Fury, require aggressive tactics to increase effectiveness and survivability.



i beg to differ! The fury is a great class for staying in one area.

#161
upinya slayin

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Sketfish wrote...

Notorious P I G wrote...

Superblaze has shown up. Abandon thread. Anyone posting after me has already been trolled and banned.


Enters thread. Jumps out of window head first...


i'm right behind you:whistle:

#162
Cassandra Saturn

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Notorious P I G wrote...

Cassandra Saturn wrote...

oh boy, here we go again with this. it's not worth it.


You should make another account.  It'll be easier to troll if people dont know who you are.

not really, i am who i am. i don't hide it or deny it.

#163
Catastrophy

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Offense is the best defense. Pick you theatre, dictate the rules of engagement, retain initiative. We are outnumbered, so we use mobility to create local superiority where we want to.

#164
SavagelyEpic

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EdAndEinBebop wrote...


WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT

since when does maxing your manifest imply anything about competence? paying off credit-wise if manifest is the only thing that matters.

some of us like to have fun. and practice being good at the game.


oh yes! using armored compartment killing the spawns to finish a platinum game in under 10 min sounds very fun and they certainly are very good at the game. yes you are so right sir


certainly moreso than camping behind a counter/in a box.

#165
Dunvi

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EdAndEinBebop wrote...


WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT

since when does maxing your manifest imply anything about competence? paying off credit-wise if manifest is the only thing that matters.

some of us like to have fun. and practice being good at the game.


oh yes! using armored compartment killing the spawns to finish a platinum game in under 10 min sounds very fun and they certain are very good at the game. yes you are so right sir


a) wrong person?

B) i'd like to see you get a <9 minute speedrun

c) it's not like i only speedrun...

:blink:

ETA: ever notice that campers get really, really defensive about whether they have any competency?

Modifié par Dunvi, 19 mars 2013 - 08:23 .


#166
upinya slayin

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EdAndEinBebop wrote...


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
*ahem*, Spectator Mode 
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Camping sure seems safe and effective.





why dont we compare our manifest?

http://social.biowar...bop&platform=pc

so apparently camping does pay off. big time
I managed to max out the pre-Reckoning URs in less than 400 hours
mostly using a Krogan soldier with fire grenades and a low level N7 Pirana doing Rio/Reaper Platinum...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Edit:
and now I keep camping either using juggernaut or justicar on mostly White and Giant


so you wasted 800+ hours to make the game  collectables game. congrats/. i had fun and unlcoked everyhting just as quick running around. so um yeah fun > not fun credits will come either way:innocent:

#167
UnknownMercenary

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EdAndEinBebop wrote...

oh yes! using armored compartment killing the spawns to finish a platinum game in under 10 min sounds very fun and they certainly are very good at the game. yes you are so right sir


hiding in a box for 30 minutes is hardly "playing the game"

And if your metric for skill is the time it took to get a maxed manifest pre-Reckoning then I and many others must be really sh*tty players.

#168
upinya slayin

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OperatingWookie wrote...

Camping is a legitimate way to play the game. When I tank as a juggernaut and attract the attention of the enemies I try to funnel them into a killzone. Where this killzone is depnds on how much of a stroll I want to take, and if my squishies are willing to scorch earth around me, then we'll have a 5 waves survived, or even an epic 10 waves survived on platinum all with games roughly centered around 18 -24 minutes.

You can't deny that's effective, but then again that's being a juggernaut. Camping is a valid way to play. This, of course, applies to me playing a juggernaut.


still doens't mean its not boring.

#169
ISHYGDDT

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EdAndEinBebop wrote...

lol haha missiling the spawns. yeah now thats so very brave of you. I mean isnt the bravery and manliness that make people like you think that camping is lame? so what does spawn killing make you?

so if it is so easy for you to get credits how come URs are not maxed out yet?


I was taking a break from the game and didn't bother saving up for reckoning DLC.  All my pre-reckoning UR's were maxed out a while ago.  I mostly solo now, and don't care about maxing the one decent UR in reckoning.  

Spawn killing is less lame than box of shame, if only because it's a hell of a lot faster.  Like I said, I do it for credits.  Your money-making scheme is inferior.  I never said it was less manly (lol), unless you equate manliness with intelligence, then yeah, it's less manly.

#170
SavagelyEpic

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ISHYGDDT wrote...
unless you equate manliness with intelligence, then yeah, it's less manly.


More people should start equating manliness with intelligence.

Modifié par SavagelyEpic, 19 mars 2013 - 08:26 .


#171
Red Panda

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upinya slayin wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Camping is a legitimate way to play the game. When I tank as a juggernaut and attract the attention of the enemies I try to funnel them into a killzone. Where this killzone is depnds on how much of a stroll I want to take, and if my squishies are willing to scorch earth around me, then we'll have a 5 waves survived, or even an epic 10 waves survived on platinum all with games roughly centered around 18 -24 minutes.

You can't deny that's effective, but then again that's being a juggernaut. Camping is a valid way to play. This, of course, applies to me playing a juggernaut.


still doens't mean its not boring.




True, but what am I supposed to do as a Geth Juggernaut? Switch to another class? If I did that then PUGs wouldn't follow me around like little puppies. I've got to keep those puppies alive!

#172
StrawHatMoose

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EdAndEinBebop wrote...

oh yes! using armored compartment killing the spawns to finish a platinum game in under 10 min sounds very fun and they certainly are very good at the game. yes you are so right sir


and taking 25+ minutes sitting in a box/behind a counter to finish a plat game takes more skill and is infinitely more fun. 
Image IPB

#173
EdAndEinBebop

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SavagelyEpic wrote...

EdAndEinBebop wrote...


WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT

since when does maxing your manifest imply anything about competence? paying off credit-wise if manifest is the only thing that matters.

some of us like to have fun. and practice being good at the game.


oh yes! using armored compartment killing the spawns to finish a platinum game in under 10 min sounds very fun and they certainly are very good at the game. yes you are so right sir


certainly moreso than camping behind a counter/in a box.


please do explain?

Lately Ive been camping around the ammo boxes that are not in open area with the juggernaut and with justicar usually near narrow passages where I predict the enemies would come from or near a juggernaut then use bubble and reave to kill the enemies. Most of the games I joined take 25min or less and I find it a lot more fun than using 9 missiles x 4 players to do it in under ten minutes

#174
Dunvi

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EdAndEinBebop wrote...

so if it is so easy for you to get credits how come URs are not maxed out yet?


because I play for fun, not manifest?

#175
Cassandra Saturn

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i still play for fun, as i have told other people.. lol