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[Patchwork]

I'm curious will cyberpunk 2077 have a set male protag too?

FemShep's straight LI choices were poor but it's only part of the problem. Mass Effect is clearly a series pandering to the male gaze.

[HiddenInWar]

dreamgazer wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

Reading this thread makes me lose hope for this community more and more.

Based on what side of the argument?

I'm seeing some homophobic comments in here. 

I know I shouldn't let it get to me nor should it dictate my opinion of this community as a whole but still.

It makes me want to puke nails. 

[spirosz]

HiddenInWar wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

Reading this thread makes me lose hope for this community more and more.

Based on what side of the argument?

I'm seeing some homophobic comments in here. 

I know I shouldn't let it get to me nor should it dictate my opinion of this community as a whole but still.

It makes me want to puke nails. 

Then avoid the thread, lol.  

[Reth Shepherd]

Original DeviantArt page: http://selfphobia.de...mshep-329405714

selfphobia wrote...

I made this piece around 2 months ago, and I want more people to see it so I'm putting it up here too. I encourage you to post this on other sites, send it to BW, etc. no need to link back to me or credit.


I think this speaks for itself.


First of all: This is based on who grants the paramour achievement in ME3. Thane nor Jacob grant it, and they both dump Femshep (Thane practically says that their relationship is over after you talk to him in Huerta), hence why they're crossed out. Don't tell me that Kelly or Allers don't count, they DO give the achievement.


Also Miranda and Jack are NOT crossed out because they don't dump Mshep, the relationship continues and you still get some content and the achievement. Don't compare them to Thane and Jacob, that's a false equivalence.


Don't tell me that Liara isn't "technically female." Asari look like women, talk like women, refer to themselves as women, etc. If there was a species who all looked like males but were technically genderless and one was an LI option, straight male players most likely wouldn't touch them.


"Well women make up a smaller percentage of players." Actually, according to a new study by the Entertainment Software Association, women make up 47% of all gamers. So that's no excuse to have Femshep's content shafted.


"Well, I'm a female player but I romanced Garrus/Kaidan and they were great so I'm okay with this." Thanks for letting us know that you're willing to let discrimination slide because you were distracted by a piece of candy.


And finally, for those about to complain about the labeling of "Gay" or "Lesbian" relationships, I know that one does not have to strictly be either of those to be in a relationship with someone of the same gender. However the actual relationship in itself is considered a homosexual one, which is what I was trying to indicate. I know that bi and pansexual people exist, thank you.



Does this blatant discrimination ****** you off? We have a campaign running to bring back Thane, and are also strongly for fixing Jacob's content as well. Please do your part and like us on Facebook! Thanks.

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 21 mars 2013 - 01:37 .

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

Reth Shepherd wrote...



Original DeviantArt page: http://selfphobia.de...mshep-329405714

selfphobia wrote...

I made this piece around 2 months ago, and I want more people to see it so I'm putting it up here too. I encourage you to post this on other sites, send it to BW, etc. no need to link back to me or credit.


I think this speaks for itself.


First of all: This is based on who grants the paramour achievement in ME3. Thane nor Jacob grant it, and they both dump Femshep (Thane practically says that their relationship is over after you talk to him in Huerta), hence why they're crossed out. Don't tell me that Kelly or Allers don't count, they DO give the achievement.


Also Miranda and Jack are NOT crossed out because they don't dump Mshep, the relationship continues and you still get some content and the achievement. Don't compare them to Thane and Jacob, that's a false equivalence.


Don't tell me that Liara isn't "technically female." Asari look like women, talk like women, refer to themselves as women, etc. If there was a species who all looked like males but were technically genderless and one was an LI option, straight male players most likely wouldn't touch them.


"Well women make up a smaller percentage of players." Actually, according to a new study by the Entertainment Software Association, women make up 47% of all gamers. So that's no excuse to have Femshep's content shafted.


"Well, I'm a female player but I romanced Garrus/Kaidan and they were great so I'm okay with this." Thanks for letting us know that you're willing to let discrimination slide because you were distracted by a piece of candy.


And finally, for those about to complain about the labeling of "Gay" or "Lesbian" relationships, I know that one does not have to strictly be either of those to be in a relationship with someone of the same gender. However the actual relationship in itself is considered a homosexual one, which is what I was trying to indicate. I know that bi and pansexual people exist, thank you.



Does this blatant discrimination ****** you off? We have a campaign running to bring back Thane, and are also strongly for fixing Jacob's content as well. Please do your part and like us on Facebook! Thanks.

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous.

[AVPen]

Reth Shepherd wrote...



Original DeviantArt page: http://selfphobia.de...mshep-329405714

selfphobia wrote...
*Snip*

First of all: This is based on who grants the paramour achievement in ME3. Thane nor Jacob grant it, and they both dump Femshep (Thane practically says that their relationship is over after you talk to him in Huerta), hence why they're crossed out. Don't tell me that Kelly or Allers don't count, they DO give the achievement.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that neither Kelly or Allers granted the Paramour Achivement in the game.

[jtav]

Kelly does. Allers doesn't. Achievement or no, I'd argue Thane now counts with Citadel.

[Adoramei]

jtav wrote...

Kelly does. Allers doesn't. Achievement or no, I'd argue Thane now counts with Citadel.

Thane? I thought he only shows up as an apparition in the end. (Well, and the memorial thing.) At least.. I haven't seen any youtube videos with him in it, interacting.

Modifié par Adoramei, 21 mars 2013 - 04:46 .

[_Syn_]

HiddenInWar wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

Reading this thread makes me lose hope for this community more and more.

Based on what side of the argument?

I'm seeing some homophobic comments in here. 

I know I shouldn't let it get to me nor should it dictate my opinion of this community as a whole but still.

It makes me want to puke nails. 

And passive aggression doesn't make the situation worse.

[Mr.House]

M25105 wrote...

I do feel bad for the girls, if they didn't save Kaiden all they got left is a bird like alien. Ouch.

They also have Liara and Sam.

[k.lalh]

People...it's a game based on a fictional universe. Be glad that they even offered anything for females, given how male centric the VG industry is, (not that I agree with this, but whatever).

People shouting discrimination should look at other games here, does Halo offer a female protagonist? CoD? BFIII?

Besides, it's not like this is even an important element of the game. Romance? Really?

The people complaining about not being able to get the achievement as a straight female, without romancing Kaidan or Garrus, come on. If you care about how getting the achievement is a deal breaker, clearly achievements are more important to you than the actual romance. If this is the case, start a new playthrough.

In real life, you hardly get the exact same opportunities in anything as the guy who sat beside you in bio class. It's always more or less. People die, people cheat, sh*t happens. That was bioware's story, and how they wanted the characters do develop. But since you all complain so much about something so insignificant, they'll probably give you something more in the next game, move on people.

[chemiclord]

There are times where I wonder if some people who bought this series thought they were playing a sci-fi themed dating sim.

We're really gonna go down the road of judging malicious sexism based on romance content?

Kay.

[Venom man4]

Mr.House wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Not all females are into males, so Bioware is not alienating all of the female players.

Just the straight ones.

Seeing as Kaidan and Garrus are better then majoirty of the options maleshep get's, I don't see the issue. Quality over quanity.

Um no, Kaiden like Ashley was awful in ME2. I don't see how him nor Garrus are so much better then Tali.

Miranda and Jack have moments too.

[Adoramei]

Mr.House wrote...

M25105 wrote...

I do feel bad for the girls, if they didn't save Kaiden all they got left is a bird like alien. Ouch.

They also have Liara and Sam.

While I am a female who in fact loves to romance females, not all females will. And as female gamers, I'm sure that there are plenty of us who are weary of being forced to play males in RPG's. Especially in cases where we have a choice.

I empathise with the women who would prefer to romance a human with a straight alignment. It's like a sexual preference, which is personal. I mean, for a while, I wasn't even considering romancing the male aliens. I've since warmed up to Garrus, but.. That's.. about it. So even though I have more choices than they do, I still feel a bit cramped. I mean, it's a good thing that I really like Kaidan, I guess. Male Shep isn't so hard for me to play. I do like him.. but after playing as a character I identify more as with FemShep, it's getting harder and harder to go back to the males.

[WarGriffin]

Though lets be fair here

Kaidan and Garrus are arguebly the second and third best romances in the game.

[J4mes]

Liara is the only true romance in Mass Effect anyways, there really shouldn't be anyone else.

/EnableMassEffectProjectorShield

[TheProtheans]

"Straight" females Shepard's have 6 romance options.
And straight male Shepard's has 5 options(Allers and Kelly are poor romances).

Who is been alienated now?

[NyxFTW]

J4mes wrote...

Liara is the only true romance in Mass Effect anyways, there really shouldn't be anyone else.

/EnableMassEffectProjectorShield

Everyone's aware that Liara has always been Bioware's pet. At ease, soldier.

[whalewhisker]

J4mes wrote...

Liara is the only true romance in Mass Effect anyways, there really shouldn't be anyone else.

/EnableMassEffectProjectorShield

Ugh, Liara's voice is freaking annoying.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

k.lalh wrote...

People...it's a game based on a fictional universe. Be glad that they even offered anything for females, given how male centric the VG industry is, (not that I agree with this, but whatever).

People shouting discrimination should look at other games here, does Halo offer a female protagonist? CoD? BFIII?

Besides, it's not like this is even an important element of the game. Romance? Really?

The people complaining about not being able to get the achievement as a straight female, without romancing Kaidan or Garrus, come on. If you care about how getting the achievement is a deal breaker, clearly achievements are more important to you than the actual romance. If this is the case, start a new playthrough.

In real life, you hardly get the exact same opportunities in anything as the guy who sat beside you in bio class. It's always more or less. People die, people cheat, sh*t happens. That was bioware's story, and how they wanted the characters do develop. But since you all complain so much about something so insignificant, they'll probably give you something more in the next game, move on people.

Uh, you mean there's a campaign in Call of Duty? and BF3? I still haven't finished Halo 4 campaign on normal. I did a little bit and went straight to multiplayer. Isn't that what you do with those games? I haven't played a CoD or BF campaign in years.

The video gaming industry is male centric. And what do most women play I know play? multiplayer CoD. They don't even bother with the story. Why? Because the stories are such macho BS.

But this whole thing was totally unbalanced. I don't care whose story it is. If you're going to have both a male and female Shepard you have to make the story balanced for both. Sorry to disagree with you. Miranda should have dumped Shepard to be fair. And they should have added James for a LI for femShep to be fair -- it wouldn't have taken much -- but for chrissake in the DLC you get a roll in the hay and then he feels like s*** about it afterward. Nice. They need to learn from this.

Perhaps with new management in EA (although I'm not getting my hopes up) things will change and they'll take their foot off the rush pedal.

[David7204]

I like the idea of a James romance and maybe even a Joker romance, but Miranda should not have dumped Shepard. Don't be vindictive. And you shouldn't be offended by Jacob because someone, somewhere, might have been offended.

Modifié par David7204, 21 mars 2013 - 10:03 .

[CroGamer002]

nani7788 wrote...

Download the Citadel DLC. You can have a one-night stand with James. Or Javik.

One night stand is not the same as actual romance.

[AllThatJazz]

Personally, I prefer quality over quantity and I think Garrus (especially) and Kaidan were done really nicely. I'm truly sorry if those characters weren't to your tastes, but they are still quality characters with quality romance arcs. I vastly prefer the ME romances to the Dragon Age ones, despite having more options in DA. I did like Alistair, but I thought Zev was much better m/m, while the Anders romance (rivalmance especially) was well done, I found the character irritating, and Fenris was all brooding and angst - while this in moderation is fine, he laid it on a bit thick for my tastes which became tedious. So I found myself without any enjoyable F/M romance for DA2, but I certainly don't think Bioware were being sexist because my personal tastes weren't catered to.

I think accusing Bioware of deliberate malice and sexism is a real stretch, and quite unfair. At worst they are guilty of being a bit thoughtless and not planning properly in ME3 (something that applies to all sorts of things in the game not just the romances) which, while unfortunate and something they should try to avoid in future games, is a long way from outright and purposeful discrimination. Bioware does a lot more than other Devs in terms of female characterisation, having strong women in their worlds and having romantic content for straight female players. Only Obsidian comes anywhere close - and the romances in most of their games (NWN2 aside) are implied rather than outright.

Could they do better? Sure, but I think encouragement rather than bashing them is the way to go here. The last any pro-romancer would want (surely) is for Bioware to decide it's too much trouble and stop doing them altogether.

This whole thing could probably have been avoided had they made James a full LI - and I honestly believe (given all the 'Lola' stuff) that this was the plan, but they ran out of time/budget to implement it - and lack of time to finish things properly seems to be something that affected the entire game ...

[InvincibleHero]

No they are not. They wrote stories they felt like telling. They didn't go let's have the same amount of options for everyone. There is no guarantee that any romance will work out.

It is actually perpetuating a negative stereotype about men that many women support that they are cheating dogs. Jacob epitomizes this. So yes he becomes and ex ,but it is a slam against men.

How many of you would remain loyal if your LI was gone for 6 months without a trace? I am sure he had no way of knowing anything. His personality seemed he jumps from one thing to the next. he isn't the waiting around kind of type.

The same complaint was against the VS treatment in ME2 if romanced. Why didn't they wait and be loyal like I wanted? Simple the only person you control is yourself. You can't make them think or do what you want. You can coerce/force people to do what you want but they know and so do you. What leverage did you expect a  dead Shepard to wield over them? Much less expect an absent love to grow stronger.

Anyway the disconnect is BW is telling a story but many of you wanted something else. That's fine really but people act like they have the power to write the thing or tell BW what they should do.

If male Shepard had zero romance options throughout the whole game I wouldn't care. That wasn't on the table. If they just had Liara available that would be fine too. They did add options for everyone. You had your Jacob romance scene in ME2.

Was Kelly's really a romance scene? or Aller's? No more like flings and women got the exact same scene with Kelly. Count them up the only one everyone can get is Liara. All of the rest are conditional.

Everyone chose one of the options and you only get one in the end. It just doesn't end how you want it. You had a romance and they are never all equal.

It's a story not fantasy fulfillment or making your life complete. You play Shepard and experience the story of the ME universe through his/her eyes. The story can change based on your actions but only in ways BW wanted. People are so selfish and demanding they expect to be catered to in all things. Just play the game experience the story that someone else created and expect nothing and you'll be happier for it. Such is life most things are beyond our control.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 21 mars 2013 - 10:16 .

[CroGamer002]

TheProtheans wrote...

"Straight" females Shepard's have 6 romance options.
And straight male Shepard's has 5 options(Allers and Kelly are poor romances).

Who is been alienated now?

What do you mean by that?