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[HolyAvenger]

Julia_xo wrote...


To be honest, the "I'm dying" stuff was a huge turn-off. It was the other aspects of his character that drew me in: his intelligence, spirituality, discilpine and maturity. 

  

None of that exists without him confronting his mortality and realising he has brought nothing to the world in his life, and seeking some redemption before his death. 

[Stilographium]

@HolyAvenger Miranda and Jack both get a date and a side mission, grant the paramour achievement and can be contacted before the final battle. While I think they got shafted compared to Liara, Kaidan, etc., I'd trade Thane's treatment for theirs anytime.

[Julia_xo]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Julia_xo wrote...


To be honest, the "I'm dying" stuff was a huge turn-off. It was the other aspects of his character that drew me in: his intelligence, spirituality, discilpine and maturity. 

  

None of that exists without him confronting his mortality and realising he has brought nothing to the world in his life, and seeking some redemption before his death. 

He still could have wanted those things with a different catalyst. Finding out his son was following in his footsteps, for instance. I believe Thane would have wanted to prevent that whether he was dying or not. The reason he joined Shep for the SM also could have been different. Maybe he could have wanted to change and do better to set a better example for his son.

[Julia_xo]

Stilographium wrote...

Julia_xo wrote...

And yet this so called realism only applies to FemShep's relationships?

That's where it becomes really problematic and unfair. Yes, failed relationships happen in real life but not only to women. Men have failed relationships, too. Yet in the game Femshep gets hoisted with these failed relationships and she is rendered utterly powerless to do a thing about it.

Meanwhile, MaleShep keeps all of his options and nothing ever goes wrong. Jack, Miranda,Tali and Liara, etc it all works out. Must be nice but it's not fair any way you try to spin it.

This. It's funny... MaleShep's relationship with Tali was supposed to be deadly dangerous for her, but in ME3, her system has suddenly adapted to Shepard. No one seems to see this as unrealistic, but having Thane optionally survive through the game, via available / hinted treatments or not, is considered space magic. It really feels like maleShep's relationships are guaranteed to work, no matter how unrealistic it might be, because hey, who would want a romance that can't end happily? Oh, yeah...

Exactly! You laid it out much more eloquently. I can't imagine how badly it would have gone over if Tali died because of her relationship with Shepard and there was no way to prevent it short of not romancing her.

Or if Jack, Miranda or Liara cheated and said they were pregnant by some other guy.

[_- Songlian -]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Kai Leng already has a thing for Anderson's vase. Sorry.

Jealous!

[HolyAvenger]

Honestly I don't really care to argue back and forth about your space-husbando, but suffice it to say I think its pretty silly to attack BioWare for following through on a story arc and I won't ever consider the outcome of Thane's story a "screwing" of FemShep.

Jacob...yes, dealt with badly. But, like I keep repeating, probably a popularity versus resources crunch there, I can't blame them for ditching unarguably the least popular main LI in the series.

Vega should've been a full romance, I'll grant.

[Nejeli]

Mr.House wrote...

I'm a femshep player, didn't bug me. I romanced Kaidan, Liara and Sam. Also if you didn't romance anyone in ME2, killed Ash/Kaidan then all you have is Liara and Steve as a male.

Okay? But mShep has a guaranteed het option in Liara, while femShep doesn't; and you missed, or ignored, my point about mShep not losing any of his romance options because of circumstances outside player control. FemShep is the only one that does, and there's no reason they couldn't haven't divvied it out. Have femShep lose Thane, have one of mShep's options be the 'break up' character. Or they could have cut Allers (or cameos like Conrad - you could have got all that info from him in an email) and put those resources elsewhere. They could have easily used the resources put towards Allers to make James an actual love interest, flesh out Thane's scenes, or change a couple of Jacob's lines and scenes to keep him a love interest.

[Fawx9]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Honestly I don't really care to argue back and forth about your space-husbando, but suffice it to say I think its pretty silly to attack BioWare for following through on a story arc and I won't ever consider the outcome of Thane's story a "screwing" of FemShep.

Jacob...yes, dealt with badly. But, like I keep repeating, probably a popularity versus resources crunch there, I can't blame them for ditching unarguably the least popular main LI in the series.

Vega should've been a full romance, I'll grant.

Look at Jack in the main game. She gets 1 mission and a dance scene.

The reasons why Jacob couldnt have his 1 mission and a scene are what exactly?

Hell he basically has a mini scene at the hospital. All they needed to do was add brief romance content like Jack got.

[Felya87]

I would have liked a Joker romance, just to have a non-Kaidan back up if I was going to made a FemShep in love with Thane. (well, is hard to Kaidan survive in my game...) but, no, Bio decide EDI must have a sexy body, and Joker fetish taste for metal dolls.
and Vega (even if I would not have liked him all that much...) need to be drunk to go with FemShep?! are we joking?!?!? I would be very offendend if a male said that to go to bed with me need to be drunk.
It translate in "you are so orrible looking, that I must be very drunk to do you" >_>

I love Traynor, and I have nothing against Liara, but sometimes girls like guys. I'm one of them. Sorry if I'm boring, or less sexy for some guys, It's what I am.

[Vovea]

Bioware had to write conclusions to nine different romances, as well as integrating in two new homosexual characters into the game. The handling of Jacob was pretty poor but he become a running joke on the internet for such a long time it's not difficult to imagine Bioware simply cutting their losses and focusing on the other characters. Thane definitely felt like an after thought, however they're not purposely trying to alienate female players even if they have for some.

In any case though, Garrus' romance was pure excellence, and I think Kaidan's was handled better than Ashley's.

[HolyAvenger]

Fawx9 wrote...

Look at Jack in the main game. She gets 1 mission and a dance scene.

The reasons why Jacob couldnt have his 1 mission and a scene are what exactly?  

 

I bet Jack had 10x more people who romanced her than Jacob. She was worth the investment. He wasn't. 

[wiccame]

Vovea wrote...

Bioware had to write conclusions to nine different romances, as well as integrating in two new homosexual characters into the game. The handling of Jacob was pretty poor but he become a running joke on the internet for such a long time it's not difficult to imagine Bioware simply cutting their losses and focusing on the other characters. Thane definitely felt like an after thought, however they're not purposely trying to alienate female players even if they have for some.

In any case though, Garrus' romance was pure excellence, and I think Kaidan's was handled better than Ashley's.

And where were the cutting of loses?....Mainly on straight femshep, they may not be trying to alienate female players but they are definitely not treating them fairly.

[RedBeardJim]

Vovea wrote...

Bioware had to write conclusions to nine different romances, as well as integrating in two new homosexual characters into the game. The handling of Jacob was pretty poor but

No, no "but". The handling of Jacob was pretty poor. Full stop. Him being a "running joke on the internet" is no excuse for that. They *chose* the path they took, and it was crappy.

In any case though, Garrus' romance was pure excellence, and I think Kaidan's was handled better than Ashley's.

Which, again, is just great, as long as you want to romance Garrus or Kaidan. Many people didn't, for whatever reason. Why do people see this as a zero-sum game? Some romances are well-done, therefore it's *okay* that the others are crap? Would giving Jacob or Thane decent romance content somehow automatically make Garrus's romance *worse*?

[Julia_xo]

HolyAvenger wrote...
Honestly I don't really care to argue back and forth about your space-husbando, but suffice it to say I think its pretty silly to attack BioWare for following through on a story arc and I won't ever consider the outcome of Thane's story a "screwing" of FemShep.

Jacob...yes, dealt with badly. But, like I keep repeating, probably a popularity versus resources crunch there, I can't blame them for ditching unarguably the least popular main LI in the series.

Vega should've been a full romance, I'll grant.

Right because aside from Thane's death, there were no problems at all with how Thane was handled, right? Even Patrick Weeke's admitted they dropped the ball and forgot him.

He was a FemShep exclusive LI and that put him low on the priority list. Much like Jacob.

Don't worry though, we can end the discussion here. We clearly will not agree and I'm a little sick of your condescending attitude. If you didn't want to discuss Thane maybe you shouldn't have brought him up.

[HolyAvenger]

I didn't bring him up, I was responding with my point-of-view (as someone who did, in fact, play through the Thane romance in 2) on several posts that mentioned Thane beforehand.

I still don't believe that the reason was that they were FemShep exclusive. Or rather, not directly. But if only 18% of the fanbase is playing FemShep, and the vast majority of that 18% are doing the Kaidan and Garrus romances, I think there's a pretty reasonable resource crunch to be made there in cutting out or down on content the smallest portion of the playerbase will see.

But nope, its all my straight male game privilege talking so dismiss that as condescension.

[spirosz]

You know what's ironic about Thane in ME3. He was build in mind of the female romances for ME2 and yet, they forgot all about him in ME3, hilarious.

[RedBeardJim]

HolyAvenger wrote...
I still don't believe that the reason was that they were FemShep exclusive. Or rather, not directly. But if only 18% of the fanbase is playing FemShep, and the vast majority of that 18% are doing the Kaidan and Garrus romances, I think there's a pretty reasonable resource crunch to be made there in cutting out or down on content the smallest portion of the playerbase will see.

That's a reason to do *less* content. It's not a reason to do *poor* content.

[Mr.House]

Nejeli wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I'm a femshep player, didn't bug me. I romanced Kaidan, Liara and Sam. Also if you didn't romance anyone in ME2, killed Ash/Kaidan then all you have is Liara and Steve as a male.

Okay? But mShep has a guaranteed het option in Liara, while femShep doesn't; and you missed, or ignored, my point about mShep not losing any of his romance options because of circumstances outside player control. FemShep is the only one that does, and there's no reason they couldn't haven't divvied it out. Have femShep lose Thane, have one of mShep's options be the 'break up' character. Or they could have cut Allers (or cameos like Conrad - you could have got all that info from him in an email) and put those resources elsewhere. They could have easily used the resources put towards Allers to make James an actual love interest, flesh out Thane's scenes, or change a couple of Jacob's lines and scenes to keep him a love interest.

A ME game with no Conrad? No thank you.

[TheProtheans]

spirosz wrote...

You know what's ironic about Thane in ME3. He was build in mind of the female romances for ME2 and yet, they forgot all about him in ME3, hilarious.

They actually didn't, they remembered he was at the end of his life.
You can't accept that.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 22 mars 2013 - 10:12 .

[Nightdragon8]

I agree with OP the femshep got screwed over in ME for LI wise. 1 dies, the other dumps you and knocks up another woman, and joker turns you down for a sexbot. which leaves really not much in romance for femshep. 2 flings and 1.5 ****** relationship (if you want you can count Liara as female) and 2 hetero

[Zeldrik1389]

Well, at least FemShep gotta do Tango with Garrus, which imo, is a best romance scene in the game. Heck, it's even one of the best moments of the whole franchise. I got to all my femsheps', dumped whoever their LI were, and switched all of them to Garrus because of that lol.

[RealTerminal]

Nope.

[HolyAvenger]

RedBeardJim wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...
I still don't believe that the reason was that they were FemShep exclusive. Or rather, not directly. But if only 18% of the fanbase is playing FemShep, and the vast majority of that 18% are doing the Kaidan and Garrus romances, I think there's a pretty reasonable resource crunch to be made there in cutting out or down on content the smallest portion of the playerbase will see.

That's a reason to do *less* content. It's not a reason to do *poor* content.

 

A lot of people here are arguing less = poor. 

I agree that what there was wasn't done all that well wrt Jacob. Thane...eh. 

[Hendrik.III]

Well, as a male I'm rather jealous of the Femshep/Garrus scene in the DLC, for I think the maleshep romances are rather bland. Ash's romance was a huge letdown as opposed to the hetero Kaiden one - this might be based on the character's personality, since I also think Kaiden is fleshed out better as a character in ME3 compared to Ash.

So yes, hetero males perhaps have more choice - but I would not say they've alienated their female player base just because you didn't get your preference. I'm not happy with mine either. Plus you get to have fun with Traynor, damn it. You got quality, we got quantity, and it sucks when you'd like to have the other one.

Modifié par Hendrik.III, 22 mars 2013 - 10:52 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

Julia_xo wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...
Honestly I don't really care to argue back and forth about your space-husbando, but suffice it to say I think its pretty silly to attack BioWare for following through on a story arc and I won't ever consider the outcome of Thane's story a "screwing" of FemShep.

Jacob...yes, dealt with badly. But, like I keep repeating, probably a popularity versus resources crunch there, I can't blame them for ditching unarguably the least popular main LI in the series.

Vega should've been a full romance, I'll grant.

Right because aside from Thane's death, there were no problems at all with how Thane was handled, right? Even Patrick Weeke's admitted they dropped the ball and forgot him.

He was a FemShep exclusive LI and that put him low on the priority list. Much like Jacob.

Don't worry though, we can end the discussion here. We clearly will not agree and I'm a little sick of your condescending attitude. If you didn't want to discuss Thane maybe you shouldn't have brought him up.

You are making quite a reach here. Thane being neglected had little to do with Femshep exclusivity, but the fact BioWare wanted to divorce themselves from ME2. It just so happened he had an easily conceived excuse to be written out of the series without much story. The ME2 cast suffer this, Mordin and Legion notwithstanding. Even Miranda only had a recycled sister plot.

The game was rushed and content as a whole was cut, notably from ME2. That is all.