455 réponses à ce sujet

[schebobo]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

schebobo wrote...

Yup, agree with OP.

It certainly seems that if you're a female and straight me player, then you get shafted compared to everyone else. Lol

Not as shafted as gay male players, but I'm not gonna play who had it worse. 

While technically true, I think it should be important to note that very few games include deep ss romance options (particularly mm), and that truthfully it has only been generally accepted very recently. With these factors in consideration, I would say that Bioware have done a pretty admirable job in including gay mm romance options in as sincere a manner as possible.

[Battlebloodmage]

schebobo wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

schebobo wrote...

Yup, agree with OP.

It certainly seems that if you're a female and straight me player, then you get shafted compared to everyone else. Lol

Not as shafted as gay male players, but I'm not gonna play who had it worse. 

While technically true, I think it should be important to note that very few games include deep ss romance options (particularly mm), and that truthfully it has only been generally accepted very recently. With these factors in consideration, I would say that Bioware have done a pretty admirable job in including gay mm romance options in as sincere a manner as possible.

It was pretty refreshing when they include options for everyone. While the treatment for different groups could be better (FemShep's treatment was pretty bad compared to Maleshep), it was nice to know that everyone at least can roleplay as themselves. 

[David7204]

I think the treatment of Jacob was due to the writers wanting to show that the squadmates are not hopelessly dependent on Shepard - that they can live and function without her. Jacob was the obvious choice. Nobody romanced him. I've been on this forum for over a year, and I've yet to see a single person who canonically romanced Jacob. It gets pretty tiresome to hear "I'm offended because somebody, somewhere might be offended."

[daecath]

Profanity Beaver wrote...

Seriously, with Jacob dumping you for some mean ****. James flirting with you but never going anywhere. No male love interest i you didn't save Kaiden or romance Garrus.

Being rejected by friggin Joker if you show interest in him!

It doesn't feel to me like they just didn't take their female audience into account, it feels like they specifically want to torture the poor girls who wanted to play Mass Effect and dare have fun with it...

Don't forget Ashley & FemShep's boob jobs, EDI's ******, the Banshee's full frontal nudity, Miranda's gratuitous rear shots, etc. There was a lot of sexualization of the female characters going on.

[kalasaurus]

David7204 wrote...

Yeah. I remember that. And I also remember starting a relationship with Liara and that being an end to it. That really shouldn't count as 'starting a romance.' Pretty much all the female characters say something of the sort if you're polite to them and play as a male.

It's still starts the romance path, regardless.  I'm not going to argue about it with you.

My point still stands.  It isn't an obvious flirty dialogue choice.

[The Heretic of Time]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Polygamy got greatly shafted by BioWare. It's clear BioWare only focussed on monogamy. I find that unfair to all the men who prefer to have a polygamous household aboard the Normandy.

I don't know where you get your aggression from. If you feel like providing gay romance is such a bad thing that you need to drag different kind of relationship to justify your point, then I really have nothing to say. 

I'm not acting any more or less aggressive than the female or gay players who complain they feel shafted by BioWare.

You're just being a discriminating ****** here.Why should BioWare appeal to the gay players and not the polygamous players?


You know, we COULD all just accept and admit that this whole romance thingy, that initially started more as some sort of an easter egg in BioWare's older games, got blown WAY out of porportions, and all this b!tching and whining our fictional waifu's and hasubando's and all the crying about BioWare not appealing to a certain group of players with their romance options is perhaps a tiny bit ridiculous. 

Hell... who am I kidding? The chances of that happening on the BSN is just about less than zero.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 20 mars 2013 - 08:02 .

[David7204]

daecath wrote...

Profanity Beaver wrote...

Seriously, with Jacob dumping you for some mean ****. James flirting with you but never going anywhere. No male love interest i you didn't save Kaiden or romance Garrus.

Being rejected by friggin Joker if you show interest in him!

It doesn't feel to me like they just didn't take their female audience into account, it feels like they specifically want to torture the poor girls who wanted to play Mass Effect and dare have fun with it...

Don't forget Ashley & FemShep's boob jobs, EDI's ******, the Banshee's full frontal nudity, Miranda's gratuitous rear shots, etc. There was a lot of sexualization of the female characters going on.

For the love of God, don't start this nonsense.

[dreamgazer]

GlassElephant wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Yeah. I remember that. And I also remember starting a relationship with Liara and that being an end to it. That really shouldn't count as 'starting a romance.' Pretty much all the female characters say something of the sort if you're polite to them and play as a male.

It's still starts the romance path, regardless.  I'm not going to argue about it with you.

My point still stands.  It isn't an obvious flirty dialogue choice.

I'm not very knowledgable about the romance triggers in the series, but I do know that I've had to talk Kaidan down from a relationship with two different female Shepards. The dialogue options aren't clear. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 20 mars 2013 - 08:15 .

[Isichar]

Seboist wrote...

Isichar wrote...

They just need more experience writing for female fans. Whether or not you like it gaming has been geared towards males for the most part. I am happy Bioware is actually attempting to improve in that sense at least because it really is something the gaming industry needs to move away from if it ever wants to grow.

As far as I am concerned the only group that really got shafted was the Jacobmancers.

Which is how it should be. Males are the bread and butter of the game industry.

They are also only half the potential audience which is bad from business standpoint. And equality is a pretty easy argument if you want to go at it from a moral standpoint.

Personally I would like to see gaming looked at more maturely overall. Its a storytelling medium and one that can very effective to all kinds of people. Getting to focused in catering to whats popular will cause the industry to stagnate, which is harmful to everyone in the long run.

[David7204]

You obviously shouldn't start a romance unless you want to. But expecting characters to never flirt with you unless you want them to is silly. It's good that characters flirt with Shepard without provocation. (Although you should also be able to tell them to knock it off and have that be the end of it.)

Modifié par David7204, 20 mars 2013 - 08:10 .

[CaIIisto]

dreamgazer wrote...
I'm not very knowledgable about the romance triggers in the series, but I do know that I've had to talk Kaidan down from of a relationship with two different female Shepards. The dialogue options aren't clear. 

Tell me about it. I tried to conserve water supplies by sharing a shower with Traynor, then before I knew it, bam! hit with the relationship stick. Sneaky b*tch!

[Battlebloodmage]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


I'm not acting any more or less aggressive than the female or gay players who complain they feel shafted by BioWare.

You're just being a discriminating ****** here.Why should BioWare appeal to the gay players and not the polygamous players?


You know, we COULD all just accept and admit that this whole romance thingy, that initially started more as some sort of an easter egg in BioWare's older games, got blown WAY out of porportions, and all this b!tching and whining our fictional waifu's and hasubando's and all the crying about BioWare not appealing to a certain group of players with their romance options is perhaps a tiny bit ridiculous. 

Hell... who am I kidding? The chances of that happening on the BSN is just about less than zero.

Yeah, sure, name calling, that's not aggressive at all. This is getting pretty off-topic now, so I'm just gonna say that if you have a problem with the way Bioware making games for everyone instead of a specific group then you're playing the wrong game, because it's not gonna change any time soon. The outcry comes oftenly from the straight male gamers just as much as the other groups, as evident in this thread which had anything to do with bisexuality or anything like that but people still bring it up. Just so you know, I don't mind polygamy relationship if it done right, I was just feel like you're making a strawman argument. To be honest, I'm pretty amused by all the outcry. I'll stop now before entering into a pointless juvenile argument. 

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 20 mars 2013 - 08:13 .

[Bill Casey]

daecath wrote...

the Banshee's full frontal nudity

Umm...
Aren't all husks naked?

[LilyasAvalon]

Well, look who Female Gamers have...

Garrus (Only if you romanced him in ME2)
Kaidan (Only if he's alive)
Samantha (Lesbian Option)
Liara (Lesbian Option)

I think the popular belief with Bioware is that female gamers are lesbians.

Don't get me wrong, Kaidan and Garrus' (Especially Garrus') romances were fairly good, but when you look at that in comparison to whom the boys have, t'ain't fair. I mean, it's not as if Jack or Miranda die or dump you without telling you.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 20 mars 2013 - 08:18 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

so I'm just gonna say that if you have a problem with the way Bioware making games for everyone instead of a specific group then you're playing the wrong game, because it's not gonna change any time soon.

ME  having a problem with the way BioWare makes their games? Hah, that's a good one.  Last time I checked I wasn't the person who was crying in dissatisfaction about how I feel shafted and betrayed by BioWare because of how they treated my fictional waifu / hasubando (in case you still don't get it, my complaining about the lack of a polygamy option in Mass Effect was satire).

The outcry comes oftenly from the straight male gamers just as much as the other groups, as evident in this thread which had anything to do with bisexuality or anything like that but people still bring it up.

Yes, YOU brought it up, and I decided to respond to it. So why did you bring it up actually?

To be honest, I'm pretty amused by all the outcry. I'll stop now before entering into a pointless juvenile argument. 

I don't know whether I should feel amused by this community or feel terribly ashamed of this community. I guess a bit of both.

[David7204]

Having Jack or Miranda die can't be compared to Thane dying. And really, given Jacob's immense unpopularity, it can't be compared to Jacob leaving Shepard either.

[Kataphrut94]

Quality over quantity. Garrus is hands down the best romance option in the game and he's female exclusive. Liara gets the most romance content out of everyone and she's available for both. Traynor is great, if a bit fanservicey, Kaidan is lovely, Thane's romance was beautiful despite it's outcome and I would personally kill for the option to shag James or Javik, even if it is just a one-night stand.

[Ageless Face]

If they didn't take their female audience into account, Kaidan would have told FemShep he decided to embrace his gay-self and never touch a female body again, and Garrus would have shut Shep off and run for Tali.

They didn't, however. Kaidan and Garrus are in fact two of the best romances in the game (content-wise). So I'll just go and say "They didn't take the Jacob fans into account". Personally I don't see why Vega's flirting should end with a romance- Gianna, Shiala, Shaira, Morinth, all also flirted with Shepard (the first one only with ManShep). None actually ended as a romance.

As for Joker, having the option to ask him was just for ppl later won't ask "Why didn't I have the option to ask Joker out?" It was to cut a clear line so players will know Joker doesn't think that way about Shepard.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 20 mars 2013 - 08:27 .

[ComfortablyNumb]

killdozer9211 wrote...

On behalf of mensheps everywhere, we'll trade you cortez for traynor.

My m!Shep is very happy with Steve, thank you very much.

It would be best if you don't make statements for everybody...<_<

[CaIIisto]

Kataphrut94 wrote...
I would personally kill for the option to shag James or Javik, even if it is just a one-night stand.

Javik

Vega

Modifié par Bester76, 20 mars 2013 - 08:28 .

[David7204]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

Quality over quantity. Garrus is hands down the best romance option in the game and he's female exclusive. Liara gets the most romance content out of everyone and she's available for both. Traynor is great, if a bit fanservicey, Kaidan is lovely, Thane's romance was beautiful despite it's outcome and I would personally kill for the option to shag James or Javik, even if it is just a one-night stand.

Are you female?

(That sounds pretty clinical, doesn't it?)

[Terraforming2154]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...The writers obviously did not go "oh, female fans want angst/drama." I think they were mostly trying to be true to the characters instead of going "oh, let's pander to all the female fans and give everyone a happy romance with six straight guys to choose from (or whatever other number you want to use) for the sake of gender parity!" This is not Mass Effect: Date-a-thon. There's actually supposed to be this plot about defeating the Reapers that takes precedence over all romances.

I never tried to suggest that Mass Effect was a dating game or that the romances should have taken precedence to the actual story. I agree that should never be the case.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on most of this though. Personally, I don't think people are being unreasonable in being disappointed with Bioware's handling of some of the romances in ME3. It is great that Bioware does provide us choices, and you are right that they are one of the few companies that really does offer a good amount of choice for female gamers (I certainly appreciate that on a personal level), but that doesn't mean they should be exempt from any constructive criticism or complaints. I concede that it might be hyperbolic to suggest Bioware is intentionally alienating a portion of its fanbase -- but I can understand why some people might feel that way. 

Hopefully they will see the validity in some of the complaints people have and try to avoid those mistakes in the future. That's all anyone can really hope for. Maybe they should just dial romances back a bit in future games, or avoid offering so many, idk.

Modifié par Terraforming2154, 20 mars 2013 - 08:31 .

[The Heretic of Time]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Well, look who Female Gamers have...

Garrus (Only if you romanced him in ME2)
Kaidan (Only if he's alive)
Samantha (Lesbian Option)
Liara (Lesbian Option)

I think the popular belief with Bioware is that female gamers are lesbians.

Don't get me wrong, Kaidan and Garrus' (Especially Garrus') romances were fairly good, but when you look at that in comparison to whom the boys have, t'ain't fair. I mean, it's not as if Jack or Miranda die or dump you without telling you.

With Thane you knew there would be an end to it rather sooner than later. You knew damn well he was dying when you started that romance. The fact that Thane dies doesn't make his romance any worse though. In fact, I, a straight male player, thought the Thane memorial and video-recordings for femShep who romanced him where one of the best and most emotional parts in the Citadel DLC.

About Jacob: He was fairly hated by most (female) fans back in the ME2 and well... things like this happen. Not everything is always about Shepard I suppose.

[Kataphrut94]

David7204 wrote...

Kataphrut94 wrote...

Quality over quantity. Garrus is hands down the best romance option in the game and he's female exclusive. Liara gets the most romance content out of everyone and she's available for both. Traynor is great, if a bit fanservicey, Kaidan is lovely, Thane's romance was beautiful despite it's outcome and I would personally kill for the option to shag James or Javik, even if it is just a one-night stand.

Are you female?

(That sounds pretty clinical, doesn't it?)

No, but I have played a female Shepard.

The thought occurs that maybe I shouldn't have posted that, but ah well.

[Battlebloodmage]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

so I'm just gonna say that if you have a problem with the way Bioware making games for everyone instead of a specific group then you're playing the wrong game, because it's not gonna change any time soon.

ME  having a problem with the way BioWare makes their games? Hah, that's a good one.  Last time I checked I wasn't the person who was crying in dissatisfaction about how I feel shafted and betrayed by BioWare because of how they treated my fictional waifu / hasubando (in case you still don't get it, my complaining about the lack of a polygamy option in Mass Effect was satire).

The outcry comes oftenly from the straight male gamers just as much as the other groups, as evident in this thread which had anything to do with bisexuality or anything like that but people still bring it up.

Yes, YOU brought it up, and I decided to respond to it. So why did you bring it up actually?

To be honest, I'm pretty amused by all the outcry. I'll stop now before entering into a pointless juvenile argument. 

I don't know whether I should feel amused by this community or feel terribly ashamed of this community. I guess a bit of both.

Read back, the person who brought up the bisexuality is you, I didn't even mention the word. 

For the polygamy, that's why I said it's strawman.

ok, I'll definitely stop now. I'm not in a mood to argue.